Pack players not getting much pre-season love

'13 Football39

As we turn the page into June, media attention will start to turn more more focused on football.

We’re already starting to get some pre-season prognostications, and the results are leading to conclusions that many Wolfpackers have been making for a while — this team/program is looking pretty thin in talent.

Take for example Phil Steele’s pre-season All-ACC selections linked here.

Of course, Steele is just one guy – and preseason projections are worth absolutely nothing – but, it is a bit disconcerting that the highest projected NC State players in his exercise was defensive tackle T.Y. McGill and tight end Asa Watson as third-team selections.

After McGill and Watson, senior left tackle Robert Crisp and junior defensive tackle Thomas Teal were projected as fourth team selections.

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39 Responses to Pack players not getting much pre-season love

  1. BJD95 06/01/2013 at 9:41 AM #

    I won’t have despair no matter the record. Like Wuf said, culture change is the key. I will be happy to see our guys play hard and not phone it in (ala last year vs. UVA, I don’t understand how anyone still supported TOB after that). Wins will be gravy when they come, and be celebrated regardless of caliber of opponent.

    I think that’s a rather refreshing and positive outlook, at least by my standards. LMAO

  2. wolffpride 06/01/2013 at 12:11 PM #

    Everyone knocks our talent level, but honestly I don’t think we are any worse off than a VT or Carolina. Granted, we are not FSU, Clemson, or Miami level…but they all have SEC caliber rosters. And we will probably never get to that level.

    I look at our defense and think we could have a pretty good unit this year. Our line is incredible and deep, and the linebackers have some talent with Noel, Salahuddin and Green. Our secondary should be stout as well with Johnson and Burris holding down the outside and Byrd at safety. What I am saying is don’t sleep on our D this year, especially with a guy like Huxtable who has proven he can coach. Remember, Mike Archer made every defense he took over WORSE, look at his stats.

    Offense we are a bit of a mess. While I think we have some good receivers and should be fine there, we need EVERYTHING else. Disappointing how TOB could not build a good O-line at State, that was his bread and butter. We are a mess up front, and with the new tempo it is only worse. We need talented RB’s. Creecy should have been a receiver (like he was in HS), dumbest position change in the TOB era. Shadrach is just not it. We need Dayes and Mercer to come in and tear sh!t up. Most importantly, we need a QB. I like the looks of Brisset for seasons 2 and 3 but we really need Mitchell to come in and just MANAGE the offense. He doesn’t have to be a stud, just good enough for a few scores a game and a decent time-of-possession.

    Prediction: Defense will prove to be a surprise to everyone in the conference and will help win some games. Offense will be fun to watch and surprisingly more successful than anticipated, especially with growth throughout the year. Mitchell will step in nicely and our freshmen RB’s will take the heat off of Thornton and Creecy. Dayes could be a stud. We go 8-4 regular season and Dave Doeren matches TOB’s best record with a bowl win.

    Prove me wrong…

  3. 13OT 06/01/2013 at 2:15 PM #

    8 home games will help this team a lot more than 6, like last season. We don’t even have to play VT, Miami, GT or Pitt, and we have Clemson and UNC at home, plus go to Wake and Duke. Very winnable games. Our only real road games are at BC and FSU.

    I don’t understand all the doom and gloom I’m hearing. We have a new coach who many believe is the real deal. I think 8 or 9 wins is realistic.

  4. BJD95 06/01/2013 at 2:31 PM #

    We have a “pretty good” defense and a hot mess on offense…and that translates to 8 or 9 wins as realistic? Really?

    One could say we will have at least a realistic shot in 8 or 9 games on the schedule, but sweeping those is not the least bit a rational expeactation.

    Show me where VT and the Holes have two essentially “dud” classes in the pipeline. Their worst classes are pretty much in line with our best under TOB.

    If we had Top 30-40 talent like them, I would agree. We don’t. I think the fair debate is whether we have Duke-caliber talent (my position) or sub-Duke (foose). Would love to be wrong, but I don’t see it. This is a long term full rebuilding job.

  5. wolffpride 06/01/2013 at 5:04 PM #

    BJD95, you still look at the ranking of classes TOB brought in as an indication to our talent level. The star system for football isn’t like it is for basketball. Now I am not here to defend TOB’s recruiting efforts, they were poor. But I do think he provided us with SOME quality football players. My reference to UNC and VT is I would take our starting defense over both of their’s this season. As I said before, our offense is a mess, but we have a core of receivers as good as a UNC or VT or any other than Clemson or FSU. The line will be our biggest issue, but if they can adapt, then we have a chance at scoring points. The real stretch is on Mitchell and the freshmen RB’s. With a little luck, we could be a 8-9 win team (with our generous schedule). Forgive my optimism, I am a glass half full kind of guy.

    I agree that depth is an issue at some positions, namely DE, OL, TE, with some holes in the Secondary. Injuries cannot be afforded this year, that is for sure. Rebuilding our ranks will be a must with this staff. I like the freshmen class we are bringing in the fall. I think this staff addressed some concerns and will continue to do so.

    Remember, talent is only as good as its coachs. Take Miami for example. Hell, take Clemson before Tajh Boyd and there OC. I think we have coaches. We will see. Glass half full man, glass half full.

  6. Greywolf 06/02/2013 at 8:50 AM #

    In My Not So Humble Opinion
    The keys to our success/failure status are Safety Jarvis Byrd and the transfer QB from Arkansas. Byrd has a very bad injury history. If by some stroke of good luck he can remain healthy for the entire season, we should be very sound on defense — maybe even very good. The other safety BTW is, while untested and inexperienced, very athletic. As good as our departing safeties were, these two have the potential to be even better.

    The same could be said for our LBs. From the glass half full POV the LBs could turn out. No need to sell them short until they have been in action a few games.

    Our new offensive scheme somewhat negates a sub-standard O-line. The two guys who can make this really work — Underwood and Smith — have what it takes to be outstanding runner/receivers. Having said that, it is going to take Mitchell to make our offense productive.

    If Mitchell shows up and Byrd stays healthy, we will surprise a lot of people with our success. If not BJD will be telling us ‘I told you so.’

  7. wolfmanmat 06/02/2013 at 10:43 AM #

    Equal talent VT or Carolina? Not even close. VT hasn’t had a class aveage under 3 stars in 5 years. They get 4-6 4 star players every year. Carolina hasn’t had a class avrage under 3 stars in last 5 years either. State has had ONE class average over 3 stars(2010) in the same period. Our talent level has been MUCH lower than VT and UNC over the last 5 years. We have ONE 4 star recruit since 2011; where VT has 10 an UNC has 12.

  8. wolffpride 06/02/2013 at 10:49 AM #

    Absolutely right about Byrd. He is our X factor in the secondary. While I think Salahuddin’s growth as a middle linebacker is the most important development on defense, Byrd staying healthy is a must. It would be a good ending to his story. The kid blew out both of his ACL’s and can still log two years as a starter (I love that he is going for the 6th year, I hope they grant it, you have to feel for the guy).

  9. wolffpride 06/02/2013 at 12:45 PM #

    TOB had twelve 4 star recruits and one 5 star according to rivals, lets analyze:

    Rob Crisp = 5 star

    David Amerson
    Tyson Chandler
    Rodman Noel
    Tony Creecy
    Mustafa Greene
    Jarvis Byrd
    Brandon Barnes
    Mike Glennon
    Sam Jones – never matriculated
    Kyle Linney – never matriculated
    Terrell Manning
    RJ Mattes

    Looking at this list I would say that our “top” recruits didn’t pan out so well. I left off Fra’shad Hunter who was a 4 star DE but never qualified. If we count out Jones and Linney as well then we are left with 11 who played. Manning, Glennon, and Amerson all went in the 1st 3 rounds of the NFL draft. While Byrd, Noel, Chandler, Crisp and Creecy still have to finish out their respective careers. I only see 2 of those making it to the NFL (being Crisp and possibly either Noel or Chandler, though that is a long shot). Barnes and Greene were a bust and Mattes was somewhat of a bust too (injury laden). Greene had talent, no doubt, but no discipline. Lets say we put 5 guys out of 11 into the NFL, with none going before the 3rd round.

    Nate Irving, Russell Wilson, Audie Cole were all drafted and were nobodies. Irving and Wilson were two stars who went as high as the 4 stars (Manning and Glennon) did. Fact is, TOB put more nobodies in the NFL than he did ranked recruits. I guess he had a way of developing SOME talent.

    I have said it before and will say it again, the star system means nothing in football if you don’t have the coaching and some good luck. Even then the “top recruits” tend to flake out quite often. Ranking HS football players is just too hard. They should just take a list of fifty 5 stars and leave it at that. Half would still flake out. Now, I would like a class like Texas and USC where there is no 3 stars or lower to be found. But it is unfair to say that a Carolina or VT who bring in five 4 stars a year compared to our 3 star max out (two years and counting) would indicate more talent. DT Mcgill (2 star) is every bit as good, if not better, as DT Underwood (4 star) at UNC.

    I think we have football players. I would still take our defense and receivers over VT or UNC.

    Funny how Carolina out recruited us but never produced a better record than us and lost 5 straight times. It couldn’t have been the talent?

  10. tjfoose1 06/02/2013 at 5:47 PM #

    Why do you all confuse an honest analysis with doom and gloom?

    The world ain’t all ass kissing, sunshine, unicorns and rainbows. Just because some are giving their honest analysis doesn’t mean they are “down” on the team, staff, and players.

    Some of you may live in Neverland and keep fairies in your closet, but I live in reality.

  11. tjfoose1 06/02/2013 at 5:53 PM #

    “I won’t have despair no matter the record. Like Wuf said, culture change is the key. I will be happy to see our guys play hard and not phone it in (ala last year vs. UVA, I don’t understand how anyone still supported TOB after that). Wins will be gravy when they come, and be celebrated regardless of caliber of opponent.”

    What BJD said.

  12. hball57 06/03/2013 at 10:31 AM #

    I find threads like this interesting. On the one hand we put no stock in pre-season predictions. On the other hand we accept recruiting ratings and projections as fact to predict a losing record.

    I think there is enough information to be positive OR to be concerned. But right know we have no clue. We really couldn’t even guess. We don’t know how the offense will work out; we don’t really know what the offense will look like. We don’t know how any of the QBs will work out. We think that the WRs will be good, led by Smith, Payton an Underwood and we are unsure about the OL. etc, etc, etc.

    In other words we don’t know. You can choose to be optimistic or pessimistic with the information at hand. But no one really has “facts”.

  13. wolfmanmat 06/03/2013 at 6:20 PM #

    I don’t think anyone here would argue that TOB did fairly well at developing talent. However, to say that recruiting is not a huge part of college football is inaccurate. There’s a reason that LSU/Bama/OSU/USC/etc are always in the top 25 in recruiting and in th rankings. The 2 go hand in hand. TOB was a very poor recruiter of top talent. He had a good eye forkids that could be developed, but at some point talent wins at every level. You can develop 2-3 stars and win like Wake Forest(ie 6-8 wins and a small bowl), but you’re not going to win like we should want to with 2-3 stars. Recruiting and winning go together more often than not.

  14. wolffpride 06/04/2013 at 11:28 AM #

    I absolutely agree with wolfmanmat. If you have a roster with 80 scholarship players and 60 are 4 star or better then you are a top program. USC, Texas, Bama, Florida, OSU, FSU, etc all have rosters like this. Our roster with 10 4 stars cannot compete. However, I don’t like the comparison to schools like UNC where they have maybe 20 4 stars on their roster and we are all of a sudden inferior. Outside of FSU, Clemson, and Miami we are equal ground with everyone else in the ACC. That is the only point I am trying to make.

    No doubt we need to start brining in 5 or more ranked recruits a year. Then with some success we can turn that number into half our class, then we are talking. It’s a process, but the cupboard is not necessarily bare, TOB gave us some players. Watch our D-line this year and tell me otherwise

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