November Looms (Corrected)

Someone hacked my account last week. Those who know me well know I’m just not the reasonable, positive type, like the misguided fool who wrote under my byline tried to be.

I understand the point he was trying to make (as idiotic as it indeed was). Essentially, due to the inherent, imbalanced power structure, managing expectations in college football is far different than “accepting our place” in college basketball. There just aren’t many 10-win coaches out there, so they have to be created over time. Oregon and Virginia Tech are the only two programs in the past 20 years that gained and then maintained their status as part of college football’s elite. The Virginia Tech model is certainly one we can follow (we have the resources), and while TOB will arguably leave State a program better off than he inherited, it’s time for us to replace him with someone who can advance it to the next level, because he clearly isn’t capable.

My first call: James Franklin. He’s young (40) and energetic, has NFL experience; he’s widely appreciated as a solid recruiter (Top 25 in 2012), and is winning at Vanderbilt (by Vanderbilt standards). He was Yow’s chosen coach-in-waiting at Maryland before she left (he was not her replacement Kevin Anderson’s, however), so there’s clearly an opportunity…but — big but — Franklin currently makes around $3 million per year (estimated) in Nashville, so someone’s pockets deeper than mine will have to open up to make that kind of commitment.

No sleep ’til Atlanta.

About LRM

Charter member of the Lunatic Fringe and a fan, loyal to a fault.

'12 Football Tom O'Brien

142 Responses to November Looms (Corrected)

  1. NelsonHall97 11/03/2012 at 10:29 PM #

    Let’s hope our search doesn’t go down like this…

    Charlie Strong (public rejection)
    Franklin (public rejection)
    Cowher (public rejection)
    Butler High School coach (public rejection)

    Debbie Yow writes hastily written letter to NC State fans asking them not to panic because plans A-D didn’t pan out…and she’s trying to figure out what plan E is. We Gott lucky with Coach Gott. Don’t forget how we were all about to jump out of the window after Shaka said NO.

    Our football job is NOT as attractive as our BB job…I’m just sayin’.

  2. Ed89 11/03/2012 at 10:36 PM #

    ^^OPPS, I just realized what I wrote was about Coach Lowe….

    Ummm, you just compared a Super Bowl winning head football coach to Sid?

    I love Sid. But comparing coaching abilities of those two individuals is ummmm….wrong.

  3. Dan Allen 11/03/2012 at 10:38 PM #

    I have liked TOB. I’m not necessarily calling for his firing now, but I have a terminal view of his time at State. However, it’s probably not going to happen this year. If we beat Wake and BC, 7-5, he stays. If we win one of those, he probably stays. It’s one disappointing season. I think it takes two in a row.

    Or it takes losing your last five games.

  4. NelsonHall97 11/03/2012 at 10:42 PM #

    DY has canned a lot of coaches this year. I know she’s pissed about the coaching in the UNC game and at how unmotivated our guys were today, but I think she’s hoping TOB wins two of his last three so she can keep him one more year. I’m ready to see TOB go myself…just not sure she really wants to make that call right now.

  5. Wulfpack 11/03/2012 at 10:44 PM #

    Of course I understand that Cowher runs circles around Sid’s coaching abilities. Not even close. No contest.

    But, in college football, it is much more about recruiting. The best players leave the state for the likes of Georgia, USC, Tennessee, Florida, Clemson, VT, ND, and even the Florida schools. That is not reversed with a coaching change. It takes time. Energy. Effort. Strategy. You must cultivate the relationships. It is extremely hard work.

  6. DofCstateFan 11/04/2012 at 12:34 AM #

    Guys, tell me you actually understood the “state fan shit” Grandland post. Based on this, it seems like you’re not getting it.

    I’m ready to start getting after Debbie to hire Tommy Toberville. Give it some thought and start up the conversations…

  7. duck 11/04/2012 at 1:15 AM #

    This implosion has been in the making for 6 years. We are very lucky to have the number of wins we have , it could be much worse the win/loss record could be and probably should be 2-7. How did this happen ? TOB said from his own mouth that this was his deepest and most experienced team during his time in Raleigh. We as a fan base can’t let wins over division II schools and UNC-CHEAT be a basis for a successful football season. Booting TOB will be an expensive proposition but the time has come.
    Also keep in mind that hiring a new coach to take the program to the next level will also be expensive considering to get any top level head coach or assistant will cost a minimum of 1.8-2.1 mil / yr. You have GOP asst. At some SEC schools 875,000 – 1,000,000 / yr. now. To lure guys like that away we are going to have reach deep and pray that they are the one.

    With all that being said I think we have the support from our fans to not just be known as a school with a strong basketball tradition but an equally strong football tradition . You don’t find both very often at the same school but NCSU is not just any school, with DR Yow at the helm and the support of the fans we can be one of those very special places that everyone else wishes they could be.

  8. duck 11/04/2012 at 1:17 AM #

    This is a direct quote from AD Yow. ” the only limitations we have are the ones we place on ourselves.” That says it all!!!

  9. mak4dpak 11/04/2012 at 7:01 AM #

    From our past hirings of one of our own, it has not worked out. So Cowher would fall in that category. And can we please go back to our all red, or all white uniforms. We have not done that the last two weeks, and been bad, maybe the guys didn’t know who they were playing for. I want us to make a football statement, not a fashion statement. Fire TOB! As for a replacement, I didn’t know Gott til he was hired, so maybe Debbie has another one up her sleeve, I don’t know about. However if Debbie should retain TOB for another year, then he must be required to terminate Dana Bible, and Mike Archer, the cause of his demise.

  10. mak4dpak 11/04/2012 at 7:10 AM #

    On the subject of attractability, I really don’t see why coaching at State is such a loser job. We have some of the best football training facilites around, nice stadium, and a great fanbase of support. I bet Debbie can hit us another grand slam.

  11. logarithm 11/04/2012 at 7:13 AM #

    I had hoped hiring and retaining the younger, more exciting position coaches would help recruiting and motivation at the ballcarrier positions and linebacker. No superstar wide receivers are dying to play for a crusty old disciplinarian and Tenuta excites everyone.

    Hopefully we can retain the position coaches and not lose any recruits.

  12. Pack1998 11/04/2012 at 7:44 AM #

    Don’t hold ya breath . . . Only way a coaching change should be considered is if we lose to BC or Wake – and we could still get up and beat Clemson. I don’t think 7-5 regular season at NC State is worthy of firing in the middle of a contract if you have a 5-1 record vs. UNC, and with basketball on the upswing.

    I agree with the unhappiness – and I’m as intense as anyone – the irrational side says fire him, the rational side says wait it out. Let’s see how the rest of the season plays out. He and his staff have the opportunity to show us either way.

    As far as future coaches post any TOB-era. Cowher is not a good fit, so the excitement about him should be reserved. College coaching is much more demanding than NFL coaching. Franklin is a real possibility, for the obvious Yow connection. Also, being at Vandy prevents him from going to another school in the SEC, I assume, so State begins to look very attractive vs. a consistent middle-tier Vandy team. Issue with him is dollars. Petrino would be gold, I really believe this. These are the obvious choices – the unobvious are the assistants at the college elite programs, which really opens up the list – Alabama, LSU, Oregon assistants come to mind, and anyone who has been with Urban Meyer for multiple stints. And I actually liked the Bowden mention, though I think his name is a random and would never be considered.

    Regarding future coaches . . . You just never really know. Amato was considered by the coaching circles as the best of the best when hired. TOB was a good hire in my opinion. I think both of them put good teams on the field at times. The issue has been consistency week in and week out, which in my opinion, gets to the head coaches intensity each week and the ability of the assistants. I don’t think we’ve been able to get top talented assistants, which may be a fact of the obvious. I think it is just a problem with any school in the conundrum of 7,8,9 win season, but nothing more. It is hard to get top assistants at these schools since there is no glory. Amato got close, but could never replace his assistants with equal talent.

    Bottom line – if we go 7-5 and win a low tier bowl, I’m happy, as long as our B-ball team makes some noise in March. If we go 6-6 I think you gotta really consider a change, independent of B-ball. If we had a bad B-ball team then 7-5 would mean you go after Petrino or Franklin in a real way. And by the way, the team could go 8-4. We’ll see . . .

  13. TeufelWolf 11/04/2012 at 7:50 AM #

    Bill Cowher talk is a waste of time. We can’t afford him an he doesn’t want the job. The best we could hope is his help in finding a coach that does want the job for the money we can afford to pay.

  14. ADVENTUROO 11/04/2012 at 8:18 AM #

    Just for the record, the tongue in cheek comparison to about Lowe and Cowher was just that. I personally supported Coach Lowe WAY beyond the point. I thought a lot (and still do) of him personally and liked him. He was approachable and always made himself avaialable to the fan base. Same goes for Coach Gottfried and his staff.

    Coach TOB is a bit aloof….just based on one minor encounter in a NON- social and NON-athletic event. So, one can not draw much from this.

    I was not too excited about him…but he has had some some good moments and produced some good teams, just never any GREAT teams.

    In my mind, his most exciting games are the ones where we came back….most of the time after we dug ourselves into a hole. There were a few where we SHOULD have been behind, but most were (memory….not statistics here) where we should have been EVEN or AHEAD.

    As to Debbie Yow, I certainly have the utmost faith and confidence in her. Based on the declining revenue in the BB program and the tarnished image, you had to take some radical steps…..paying MORE for the Coaching Staff and take a hit (albeit small) on Lowe’s buyout….and he DID get another coaching job.

    I KNOW she is hurting. I don’t know the financial situation, but attendance is 98%. Can’t comment on the big donors. All I know is that TOB’s buyout, unless he agreed to a lesser amount will be $4.5 – $5 million. Would he try to find another job? Have to ask him.

    SO, if the season continues to fall apart, then she will have a tough call. Based on how she was involved in the BB program when things were going bad for Sid, she OBVIOUSLY will have some influence on Coach TOB.

    She is a tough cookie and this will be her primary focus….we MAY not see the results or the backdoor maneuvers for a while.

    I totally agree that a lot of us really did give up, like the team appeared to, yesterday. There was no reason to sit in the stands and endure it. I took my GS and we got in line for the Exhibition game. It DID surprise me that it was NOT an overflow crowd. The PNC’s 300 seats were closed. I would have thought with 56,000 or so fans that filling up the PNC (19,700 BB Capacity) would have been easy….but it WAS a long day and the FB fiasco dampened the spirit…

    Only time will tell….

    GO PACK…..the BB team looked great.

  15. theghost 11/04/2012 at 8:19 AM #

    tough year to be bidding for a top-quality coach – SEC programs @ Arkansas, Auburn, possibly Tennessee, and even Kentucky all looking for a coach. The likes of Charlie Strong, Kirby Smart, and others who can name their price, will likely end up at one of those programs.

    Now, Bobby Petrino is not as likely to end up in the SEC.

  16. theghost 11/04/2012 at 8:33 AM #

    One positive with Franklin – remember that Vandy is the place where the school actually did away with the athletic department, moving it to the office of Student Life. The AD at the time? Todd Turner.

  17. Cabin Creek Wolf 11/04/2012 at 8:36 AM #

    Petrino would use us like a $2 hooker. He’d stay for about two years, maybe, and would leave a F’ed up wake afterwards.

    I hear Jim Tressel is looking for employment. I’d take him over Petrino any day of the week.

    Either way, I don’t think anything happens if NCSU finishes the year at 7-5, and probably not even at 6-6.

  18. eas 11/04/2012 at 8:53 AM #

    This is a bad situation. If you keep TOB another year (which I do NOT support) you can’t fire Bible and Archer. Why? Because what “good” coordinators would agree to a job that may not be there for another year!

    Just let him go at the end of the season and be done with it!

  19. rtpack24 11/04/2012 at 9:06 AM #

    I was not aware that Franklin is making $3 million a year.

  20. old13 11/04/2012 at 9:13 AM #

    “Apathy = fewer dollars. I honestly thought that there would be no way DY would make a change after this season no matter what happened, but I’m beginning to rethink that.”

    Just look at the BB program before Gott. Season tickets are selling like hot cakes this year. Where were they before Gott? FB is following the same trend and can only be reversed with a coaching change.

    Our best hope for a FB coach is an up-and-comer mid-major – no FB tradition, history of being a stepping stone, ACC. We do have facilities, an administration and a fan base to support a good program. But I can’t imagine why an established successful coach at another D1 program would take the job. It wouldn’t be a step up, or even parallel in most cases. Ya really think that Cowher wants to get into the recruiting/babysitting grind of college ball after the NFL? Although I do think he could transition to it better than Lowe did in BB.

  21. Wulfpack 11/04/2012 at 9:38 AM #

    Yep, even the Vandy’s of the world in the SEC can afford to pay that kind of money for a good solid coach.

    Tennessee will definitely be looking for a new coach, as could Missouri. That’s 4 jobs right there in that conference that are better than ours.

    Guys like Strong and Smart can name their price. If it doesn’t work out this time around, they are making bank at their current spots. But someone will be paying Strong the big money.

  22. duck 11/04/2012 at 9:46 AM #

    It all comes down to $ , do we have or are we willing to spend what it takes to have a relevant football program on a national level. To talk about specific replacements at this point is just a waste of time . I think we all can agree that the current state of the program isn’t what we want but throwing around high profile names only instills false hope until we know exactly what DR Y ow has in mind . I do firmly believe that we can have the best of both the football world and basketball world , we have the facilities and fan base to do it. At this time we just need to voice our concerns and let DR Yow do what she has been hired to do.

  23. TheAliasTroll 11/04/2012 at 10:17 AM #

    “As far as future coaches post any TOB-era. Cowher is not a good fit, so the excitement about him should be reserved. College coaching is much more demanding than NFL coaching.”

    Oh Okay. Well Thanks for clearing that up. Now that we know this I think we need to take it easy on TOB because his job is “MUCH MORE DEMANDING” than oh say Tom Coughlin’s and Jim Harbaugh’s. In fact, TOB probably needs to get a HUGE raise. That is one thing I’m confused about though is why NFL coaches would make several million more than even the top paid college coaches? Oh well no need to worry about such trivial things like that. It’s not like the level of pay could be an indicator of how demanding a job is??? nahhhh

    Unreal.

    Also, enjoy that delusion that an Alabama, LSU, or Oregon assistant is going to come here. If a change is made though I hope your not too crushed during the actual presser that will be taking place in reality.

  24. Avid109 11/04/2012 at 10:33 AM #

    We don’t have to get a big-name coach in order to be successful in football. Our best bet is to look for a younger coach who is both aggressive and knows how to recruit. This combination could also be achieved by having a head coach with one or more assistants who possess these qualities. As we know from basketball, finding the right fit is the key.

  25. coach13 11/04/2012 at 10:52 AM #

    I’m convinced it is wrong to call this a WTF loss. It’s starting to look like this team is where it is and the FSU game was a WTF win. FSU’s poor coaching and super ultra conservative could care less about winning approach to us is inexplicable. We should be 4-5. Tennessee sucks, as does UCONN. We won a MD game we should have lost thanks to their kicker and been 3-6. That means we beat a bad UCONN team barely and 2 FCS teams.

    We are not and never were good. The illusion is exposed. I would say it is 50/50 we get bowl eligible this year.

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