State loses at Clemson in OT, 72-69

11-12 Basketball117

State put its very slim NCAAT hopes on ice today with a lackluster, often listless showing at Clemson, dropping its fourth straight. Now its only shot is to run the table in Atlanta in two weeks.

The real losers today were the fans, who were forced to watch five extra minutes of “ACC Excitement” (10 if you count the Duke-VPI game before it). State’s immediate goal should be to finish .500, which itself seems like a longshot at this point.

Box Score (ESPN)

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11-12 Basketball

117 Responses to State loses at Clemson in OT, 72-69

  1. BJD95 02/26/2012 at 10:31 AM #

    When you look at it objectively, there have really only been two surprising results all year – one positive (win at Miami) and one negative (home vs. GT). Every other game pretty much ended with the expected result.

  2. motorhead 02/26/2012 at 10:36 AM #

    Wulfpack, you’re right.I didn’t intend to trivialize the importance of the 4 recent games. Even 1-3 would’ve made it somewhat palatable yesterday. I’m just not ready to say here we go again. At least Blue fans will probably start leaving me alone again as we’ve lost our relevance for the time being.

  3. BJD95 02/26/2012 at 10:40 AM #

    In a sense, we are 1-3 because I still believe that by any fair measure…we beat Duke. 🙂

  4. redcanine 02/26/2012 at 10:43 AM #

    I know it’s been pointed out a few times already on this thread, but our guys look dog-tired out there. Our opponents keep jabbing and jabbing us until we eventually (and predictably) collapse. Tough as hell to watch.

    Another off season with Bob Alejo will do a great deal of service for this club.

  5. LRM 02/26/2012 at 10:47 AM #

    The really frustrating part is both Miami and Clemson aren’t only ahead of us in the ACC, they both have legitimately better league resumes than us. Clemson beat Florida State and Miami beat Duke; meanwhile, our best win is Miami.

    “I know it’s been pointed out a few times already on this thread, but our guys look dog-tired out there.”

    I imagine so. Most good teams can differentiate themselves in March because of their depth (even Duke has been showing fatigue lately). Seven-man rotations work when your starters are the O’Bannon brothers, Tyus Edney, Toby Bailey, and that big white dude who changed his name, but not when you’re stretching the natural abilities of everyone on the floor like us.

  6. rtpack24 02/26/2012 at 10:50 AM #

    I was at the Clemson game yesterday and sat behind the bench. I was very impressed with how the guys support each other and act as a team. The game came down to making free throws and we did not make them. We were out scored 16 to 5 from the free throw line. Hopefully this team will figure out how to close out games and win. I think that if they get on track they have the ability to beat almost anyone they play.

  7. NCSU84 02/26/2012 at 10:51 AM #

    Please, everyone step back and take a deep breath. Unlike previous years, we now have an administration and an AD that care and are competent. Combine that with a decent coach and a McDonald’s All American recruiting class coming in and you have to conclude that the foundation is set. While there are no guarantees, we have never been in this position over the past 20 years. Patience please.

  8. Avid109 02/26/2012 at 10:52 AM #

    The “Blue fans” that I know are already ribbing me and saying “State will always suck.”

    In my view, the key right now is the attitude of the players; they need to feel like winning each remaining game is worth the effort. If they take the attitude that they’re just playing to get into the “loser” NIT, then they will probably not put in a winning effort. If Gott can convince them that winning is still important, then this team will take another step forward.

  9. LRM 02/26/2012 at 10:55 AM #

    Look at it pragmatically: for us, it’s a six-year NCAAT drought, but for Gottfried, it’s only the first year, and he has to look at it differently than we do, and with different expectations, because he can’t control anything that happened prior to him.

    (I see that I’ve gone into the rationalization phase now.)

  10. LifeLongWolf 02/26/2012 at 10:56 AM #

    Like most of you, I’ve been a Wolfpacker for a long time, and I’m sorta used to this. Get excited, see flashes of great play, then get disappointed at the end of the season. I get it. Been there, done that and all of the other cliches.

    But here’s the thing: for some reason (naivete? stupidity?), I feel like we’re close. Think about it. With just a LITTLE bit more of something, we could’ve had several more wins this year. Stanford, GT, Clem, Duke, UVA, just to name a few games that we easily could’ve won if we had just a little more. How much different would this forum be if we take 5 losses and put ’em in the win column?

    So, as much as my natural instinct as a NCSU fan is to just say “never gonna change”, I think I’ll be excited for next year. Yeah, I know. You’ve heard THIS before too, and it’s always the same. I know. but for some undefinable reason, I think it really may be different this time.

    Oh well. WTNY.

  11. wolfmanmat 02/26/2012 at 11:26 AM #

    State played hard yesterday. To say otherwise is not accurate. On the road at Clemson is a tough place to win and, frankly, our talent levels are pretty comparable, if not dead even at every spot except maybe for Zo. On the whole Wood situation: you HAVE to play Scott Wood. He’s the reason CJ/Howell/Zo have room to work 1 on 1. In current NCAA basketball, you simply can not win consistently without a 3 point threat. We have no other 3 point threat on the team, so regardless of his defense, he has to be out there if just to make the other team try and take him away. Now the bigger question is: Will Zo and CJ turn pro? CJ is probably a top 15 pick if he turns. I’m betting they both turn and we’re left with starting 2 freshman and Howell/Wood/Painter.

  12. BJD95 02/26/2012 at 11:32 AM #

    It’s not WTNY time. 9-7 and a good NIT run would be very significant for a group of players who have never experienced any level of full season accomplishment at NC State.

    You can’t give up on the last two coinflips just because the first one came up tails (in OT, no less).

  13. gtspack 02/26/2012 at 11:37 AM #

    I agree LifeLongWolf next year will be different. We have tired legs at the end of games and therefore we miss freethrows strugle on defense commit fouls because we can’t move our feet. Depth will fix all of that and quality depth at that. I hope Calvin will stay for another year, he sure needs to work on freethrows and short range jumper. Hopefully Jordan Vandenburg will be healty next year to give some fouls and minutes against other 7 footers.

  14. Pack Mentality 02/26/2012 at 11:52 AM #

    My opinion is that we need a player to take personal responsibility for leading the team on the court. It should naturally be either Calvin or Zo since they are the best players. But I do not get the sense that they want to take the game by the balls, tell the team what has to be done, and develop a killer instinct that allows them to have a personal stake in the outcome – not just be a part of the team. Even getting pissed at their own team for not playing hard, on floor coaching, etc. they are not doing it, they are letting all coaching matters be handled by the coaches. Leadership and killer instinct are lacking, talent is there, and the will to win at all costs attitude is something that is very hard to teach to a team that doesn’t naturally possess it. Next year that has to be Zo, or one of the new guys. If Calvin comes back I don’t know that he has this type of take charge personality to rally the team when times get tough.

  15. choppack1 02/26/2012 at 12:01 PM #

    A couple additional thoughts here.

    First off…let’s talk about scheduling. Remember all the talk about how this schedule made us tougher? It doesn’t look like it. I’ve actually wondered if it can have the opposite effect.

    I look at this from the perspective of golf..if you start off having to make a couple of 6 footers for par, its great to make them, but the mere act of having to make them can have a cumulative effect.

    If this basketball team were a golfer we’d be Tom Watson. We can compete with almost anyone tee to green…but our “money putting” is horrendous

  16. BJD95 02/26/2012 at 12:17 PM #

    I think our inability to close is probably most related to (i) the absence of a natural leader: and (ii) the lack of a single true scorer.

    Prong two is especially problematic. We don’t really have one – let alone the two one really should have – option to create a bucket in the closing minutes and seconds. The only two guys who can really create for themselves (Lo and Calvin) are poor shooters.

  17. pacman23 02/26/2012 at 1:08 PM #

    “It’s not WTNY time. 9-7 and a good NIT run would be very significant for a group of players who have never experienced any level of full season accomplishment at NC State.”

    I totally agree. I also think that some wins in the NIT would do wonders toward changing the culture/attitude and building momentum for next year – much like what’s happened with Wichita State this season. Add in our recruits and much more help off the bench from De Thaey, Harris and Vandenburg and we become a relatively deep team as well. I think Leslie stays based on an interview I heard earlier in the week where he mentioned “next year”. As much as he’s improved, he’s still got a long way to go and he knows it. I also think he wants to play with Purvis and Warren and put Raleigh back on the map.

  18. choppack1 02/26/2012 at 1:09 PM #

    Bjd- I think that’s part of it but the opportunities we saw yesterday were simple execution and mental toughness stuff. I actually saw some of that from Leslie. He made those 2 key foul shots. He made the shot vs. St. Bonaventure.

    Also, it took a while to gain that toughness…but when hodge was here, he had it. Scooter had it, evtimov had it and bennerman had it. We only have one guy with it right now.

  19. Rick 02/26/2012 at 1:32 PM #

    “I guess what frustrates me most is that the talent is here. And I think for the most part the effort has been there. The team just doesn’t do the little things that successful teams do.”

    I disagree, this team has some parts but has GLARING weaknesses that any good coach can, and does, take advantage of.

    We lack
    1) speed
    2) shooting
    3) experience
    4) front court size
    5) depth

    And good coaches and teams have exposed one if not several of those weaknesses.
    We have to have everyone of our players playing well to even have a chance to win and right now we have maybe two or three that are.

  20. Rick 02/26/2012 at 1:33 PM #

    “I think our inability to close is probably most related to (i) the absence of a natural leader: and (ii) the lack of a single true scorer.”

    On the plus, side we are bringing in at least one of the former and two of the latter.

  21. choppack1 02/26/2012 at 1:58 PM #

    Rick – I disagree with a good portion of your list.

    I think that our rebounding and our ability to score in the paint has proven that at the very least our post size is adequate. Our overall field goal and foul shooting% indicates that on a statistical basis that’s not the problem either.

    Experience- no freshman sees more than a handful of minutes a game. Our experience is not the problem.

    I think we are below average defensively, we don’t make good decisions too often and our guys aren’t confident in end-game situations. Thats we’re 2-10 vs. Good teams.

  22. tvopack 02/26/2012 at 2:33 PM #

    I’m disappointed seeing some these responses after a loss.

  23. BJD95 02/26/2012 at 3:32 PM #

    The endgame decisionmaking is something I chalk up to BBIQ.

    This factor is hard to really quantify, but I will try. We play fast, and can make plodding teams like Duke look silly. But most teams that play fast have more pure speed than we do. We also rebound tough and play pretty physical. But most tough, rebound-oriented teams are bigger than we are.

    I guess that’s my way of saying that I agree with both Chop and Rick – I just maybe phrase things a little differently.

    Looking back, you can see why it feels like such a missed opportunity during HWSNBN’s years – at one point, we had an excellent scorer (Hodge), two very good scorers (Sherrill and Powell), and one very good shooter (Evtimov) at the same time.

    Wood isn’t as good a shooter as Evtimov (because his release isn’t as quick and he moves poorly without the ball), and we don’t have a single scorer on the caliber of that unit’s top three.

    Now, our guys have other strengths, but one can see why we struggle to close games out late. We start role players, really and truly.

  24. Rick 02/26/2012 at 5:10 PM #

    “Experience- no freshman sees more than a handful of minutes a game. Our experience is not the problem.”

    You and I classify experience differently. Just being older is not being more experienced. Being coached by a good coach for longer is what makes you more experienced.

    Hodge worked on his shot more than anyone but his shot always sucked because his form was bad. It is the same thing with experience, you have crappy coaches teaching you bad things to do, it is not experience. If anything it is a negative.

    We make bad decisions because we have a SG playing PG for the first time. Inexperience.

    Howell fouls all the time because he has not been taught how to play hard without fouling. Inexperience.

    End game execution, CJW misses the big FT because he has not been in that situation through the previous three years. Inexperience.

    I agree with BJD, our BBIQ is low and we have a bunch of kids who do not know what they are doing.

    I hope next years class helps with that but who knows.

    I still think this team is a bunch of tin men.

  25. swamppack 02/26/2012 at 5:37 PM #

    Even though we as fans have had more than our share of frustration watching the “could be” constantly turn into the “almost was” during this first year of the new Gottfried era, I for one am at least proud of what Gott has done to make State look like they are playing organized D1 ball for the 1st time in 5 yrs.

    I know that is settling for little but at this point what else do we have.

    As has been mentioned in previous posts, it is very important for the future of the program for them to believe what I suspect Gott is pushing hard, the fact that there is still plenty to play for this year.

    I am highly disappointed as a fan about this year, but That doesn’t mean I want the team to lose it’s last two games and bomb out of the ACC and NIT tourneys.

    I am really proud of all the players, especially Calvin’s development and AJ’s heart.

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