Expansion/Realignment (11pm Update)

So, just to recap, here’s where we stand:

In a move I don’t necessarily like, but entirely understand (the cozy little basketball conference most of us grew up with is long gone), Syracuse and Pittsburgh are officially in the ACC, which doesn’t exactly thrill Jim Boeheim (ESPN):

The Big East has held its tournament at Madison Square Garden in New York every year since 1983. On Sunday, ACC commissioner John Swofford broached the topic of holding the ACC tournament at Madison Square Garden in the future, but it is already scheduled to be held in Atlanta in 2012 and in Greensboro, N.C., the following three years.

“It’s a great place for a tournament,” Boeheim said of New York. “Where would you want to go to to a tournament for five days? Let’s see: Greensboro, North Carolina, or New York City? Jeez. Let me think about that one and get back to you.”

Wonderful, that’s all we need in the ACC is more arrogant elitism; as if Carolina and Duke aren’t already smothering us in it. For the record, the ACC Tournament paved the way for the Big East Tournament and others, yet none of those ever matched the intensity and charm of the original, which has been held in Greensboro more than anywhere else. Surely us southern folks must be doing something right.

On Sunday, it appeared Texas was strongly considering the ACC, and Connecticut and Rutgers (we already have Duke, it seems we’d already carry the New Jersey market) have both been mentioned as 15 and 16; even seems to be some speculation regarding Penn State. But my personal feeling is that the ACC may pause at 14 as it evaluates its new position in the market, and more importantly, the potential value of its renegotiated TV contract. I think it’s at least plausible now that Texas appears headed to the Pac-12 that the ACC is waiting to see how the Big Ten — sorry, B1G — and SEC each respond.

We know the SEC already has Texas A&M and we now know that West Virginia has been rejected by both the SEC and ACC (CBSSports). Based on this, the logical target to become the SEC’s 14th member is Missouri, which apparently has an offer to join as soon as the Big XII is officially defunct (Kansas City Star). Of course, this will be any day now considering Oklahoma and Texas have each been cleared by their respective board of regents to leave the Big XII and pursue membership in the Pac-12, and take Oklahoma State and Texas Tech with them (ESPN).

Most indications suggest the SEC may very well stop at 14 (for now) and the B1G doesn’t seem intent on expanding beyond 12 (for now). I think — hope — the ACC may be hesitant to expand beyond 14 just for the sake of expanding. Keep in mind, this is all entirely football-centric, and if the SEC and B1G can’t increase revenue per member with 16, then there’s zero chance the ACC could do it. It’s at least plausible to suggest the B1G and ACC are each waiting to see which direction Notre Dame leans; sources have indicated that if Notre Dame is forced to join a conference, it would be the ACC, which Dan Wetzel thinks is a great idea (Yahoo!). I think so, too.

So, as of right now, what we’re left with is potentially the remnants of the Big XII and Big East talking merger (Yahoo!).

Oh, and don’t forget that the Pahrats want us all to know they’re available, too (WRAL).

8pm Update:
Is it possible that the Big XII can be salvaged? Oklahoma — Boomer Sooner is not a happy camper about how Dan Beebe has been handling things — now says it will consider staying in the Big XII…conditionally (ESPN):

According to the source, the Big 12 presidents don’t believe Beebe handled the departures of Nebraska and Texas A&M adequately. The Big 12 has lost three members in the last 15 months, and, according to the source, “the relationships were so bad (with) the commissioner.”

According to the Big 12 bylaws, a majority vote among the member schools is needed to oust the commissioner.

Beebe received an extension through June 2015 from the Big 12 in November 2010. University of Missouri chancellor Brady Deaton, chairman of the league’s board of directors, said Beebe had been “an outstanding leader” during challenging times.

Beebe received a raise from $661,000 to $997,000 in 2009 before the Big 12’s first near breakup.

Oklahoma has also demanded that Texas modify some of its plans for the Longhorn Network. Big 12 members were angered by the network’s agreement with Fox Sports to move a conference game to the Longhorn Network and its decision to show high school highlights after the Big 12 voted to keep televised high school games off school-branded networks.

The source told the Oklahoman that a move by Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to the Pac-12 wasn’t inevitable.

Is this a power move by Oklahoma? Absolutely. Keep in mind, Oklahoma is currently in a better and more flexible position than Texas. Oklahoma can move to the Pac-12 much easier than Texas, because it isn’t contractually-bound to a network produced by the minority shareholder in the new Pac-12 TV deal. Sure, any conference commissioner would sell whatever’s left of his cold, dead soul to have the most popular program in the second most-populous state join its ranks, but poor ol’ Texas, seemingly unwilling to share the wealth from the network it founded to promote itself and no one else, is having a difficult time finding a new home.

Meanwhile, before Syracuse and Pittsburgh bailed, the Big East was apparently targeting both Air Force and Navy (CBSSports). Not sure how those two leaving would affect an invitation to those schools — seems to me you need them now more than ever, especially considering the service academies appreciate such a far-reaching appeal.

11pm Update
Andy Katz reports that the Pac-12 has voted against further expansion, at least for now (ESPN). Take from this what you want, but this almost certainly means the revenue projections didn’t support it. Or maybe no one wants to be aligned with Texas?

This all continues to be very interesting/confusing/frustrating. The only thing of which we can be wholly certain is that there is far too much money at stake to be concerned about how this negatively affects the fans or student-athletes.

About LRM

Charter member of the Lunatic Fringe and a fan, loyal to a fault.

ACC Teams

68 Responses to Expansion/Realignment (11pm Update)

  1. old13 09/20/2011 at 4:41 PM #

    “Our old ACC high academics conference is over. . . . A Texas or Notre Dame addition changes everything.”

    Where do you get the idea that Texas and ND don’t have high academics? A degree from either is considered to be pretty valuable. (Remember that MAF came to NCSU from UT.) Pitt and Syracuse are both known to be pretty good schools academically – higher than NCSU in the ratings, as is ND and, I think, UT.

  2. sundropdrinker13 09/20/2011 at 4:42 PM #

    ECU will get an invite to the merged conference. More people watch ECU than you would think. I watched most of their game against USC. I watch them almost as much as State. They are an exciting team to watch, and have been a lot more successful on the football field than we have been. If we get ND, then an old friend of mine is gonna crap his pants. A ND Fball fan and a Duke Bball fan. Typical.

  3. triadwolf 09/20/2011 at 4:42 PM #

    I don’t know how Penn State officials think, but Paterno lobbied to get into the ACC back in the 70’s and then lobbied for an East Coast football conference.

    Both Notre Dame and Penn State consider themselves east coast schools as their alumni are predominately to the east. It’s a bit of a pipe dream to think that both could come the ACC, but it’s not as far fetched as a lot of people might think. That would be one bad ass conference!

    Regarding the ACC B-Ball Tourney; I expect a majority of years it will be in Greensboro with a rotation through Atlanta and NY each once every 5 years. That would result in 6 yrs in G’boro, 2 in Atlanta, and 2 in NY over a 10 year period; that should keep everybody fairly happy. G’boro will be the predonminate site because of tradition, ACC HQ location, and it’s geographically central location in the conference.

  4. Astral Rain 09/20/2011 at 4:48 PM #

    The Villanova was something I saw I think via a Twitter link, looked sufficiently newsworthy.

    The football- they’ve tried to get into Big East football the last two years- as soon as they’re in a BCS conf, they’ll go I-A. They are a top I-AA team (I think they won one year also)- and given their market they should be able to get decent quickly.

  5. jbwbubba 09/20/2011 at 5:07 PM #

    Oklahoma is not walking from Big 12 without giving Texas one more chance to save it. Gave a list of demands, including firing Comish and major rework of LHN.

    http://newsok.com/breaking-removal-of-big-12-commissioner-dan-beebe-among-ous-demands/article/3605958?custom_click=breaking_news

  6. Packfan28 09/20/2011 at 5:08 PM #

    I hate Notre Dame with a passion. But what a coup it would be for the ACC to reel them in.

  7. bigwolfpacker 09/20/2011 at 5:39 PM #

    I thought the ACC had to expand past 14 in order to renegotiate the current tv contract.

  8. Ashman87 09/20/2011 at 5:54 PM #

    ^Debbie Yow said that the ACC had to add at least TWO MORE schools before renegotiation could take place. Thanks Astral Rain for the update.

  9. highstick 09/20/2011 at 6:16 PM #

    How are we ever gonna “compete” with UNC, UConn, Duke, Pitt? Lee Fowler was a visionary!

  10. grouchomarx 09/20/2011 at 6:23 PM #

    the ACC just hit a homerun,with Pitt and Cuse, for basketball! We will never be the premier fb conf unless ND and Texas join. this is a win/win- fb relevance with BCS bid and bb dominance. Add UConn and ACC has east coast locked up.

    the Big East screwed themselves when they let ND in with no fb- they’re toast- the ACC will not make the same mistake. give lil’ Johnny and the AD’s some credit here, they wont let ND in if not full participation. if we get ND and UConn for 16-it might happen- we are on top in both sports.

  11. BJD95 09/20/2011 at 6:38 PM #

    Notre Dame is a no-brainer (though of course, I hate them as much as the blues), I expect 16 would be Villanova or UConn. I would opt for Nova, frankly. Cuse already gets us NYC. And shit, I don’t want yet another insufferable bunch of pricks added, if we already added the Irish.

    Never believed Texas was gonna happen, though they are even better than ND as a fit, IMHO.

    The whole point beyond the supers is that ONLY the supers will participate in the post-season, at least in a meaningful and profitable way. That’s why everybody is so eager to grab onto a liferaft – why ND is even considering ending indy status. There’s no future outside of the supers.

    Football equals money. Money equals survival. Don’t feel bad about wanting to survive. Anyone who isn’t being motivated by football and money is playing with their athletic departments’ very existence.

    Jesus, if Swofford gets Notre Dame I’m going to have to say nice things about him. That ensures that the ACC will have a place at the super table. Without them, I do still think there’s room to be excluded, or at least marginalized.

    But who the hell really knows

  12. whitefang 09/20/2011 at 6:55 PM #

    Excerpt from Dan Wetzel’s piece yesterday:
    “If I’m Notre Dame today I’m on the phone to Atlantic Coast Conference headquarters in Greensboro, N.C. because tomorrow may be too late.

    If I’m Notre Dame today, and I see the Big East in mid-implosion, see that the ACC has essentially left a spot for me (temporarily) and see the long-term demographic trends for the Midwest, I’m spending the afternoon having a long, soul-searching look in the independence mirror.

    And then I’m starting negotiations to join the ACC, not the Big Ten, my persistent local suitor and the one everyone assumes I’ll eventually marry…
    For Notre Dame, football independence remains the priority. “Our preference is clear,” Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick said 18 months ago.

    That was when the tectonic shifts of conference realignment began and Swarbrick was quick to point out the Irish would remain conference-free unless there was “a scenario that would force our hand.”

    On Sunday, Syracuse and Pittsburgh left the Big East for the ACC and if that isn’t the “scenario,” then we’re close.”

    Now that would have me taking back at least some of the things I have said about Swofford if he pulls that one off.

  13. whitefang 09/20/2011 at 7:03 PM #

    To expand on some of the conversation, I was all for State making a play for the SEC. Whether we did or not I am not 100% sure. But obviously what transpired in the last 5 days made that point moot.
    IF we can land a Notre Dame OR a Texas, then we definitely have a seat at the grown-ups table. Pulling Cuse and Pitt away with seemly little effort spells doom for the Big East I believe. The Big Ten and the ACC will pick thru the bones. Obvious WVA knew that if those reports were true and they have got to be on their knees in front of the Big 10 right now.
    Notre Dame HAS to make a move. Super conferences are going to tie up a lot of the big football scheduling match-ups. The math won’t work for ND to be guaranteed 8 somewhat meaningful home games at that point.
    The Big East then MAY take the Pirates. But keeping a seat at the Big Boys’ table will ONLY be because the Big Boys are being generous. If they are being greedy goodby auto BCS. Based on what has been going on anyone want to bet on generous?

  14. jbwbubba 09/20/2011 at 7:13 PM #

    Will be interesting to see what ND does, I wonder if the report from Katz and ESPN wasn’t a shot across the bow at the Big East or Big 10 “hey let us stay indy in football or its no go”. If ACC gets to 16 teams and sets up some sort of POD system, its possible that would give ND the flexibility to still play several of their traditional rival games.

  15. StandUpAndHowl 09/20/2011 at 7:32 PM #

    I would say that we were in for a clash of cultures, southern vs northern, but Duke has been in the ACC since day one.

  16. triadwolf 09/20/2011 at 7:45 PM #

    ^ I think it’ll be more of a clash between the haves and have-nots with regard to football. Small private schools struggling while the football powers thrive. The NC State’s of the world will continue to go back and forth straddling the line between relevance and oblivion, but make a lot more money doing it.

    Of course we could take that next step and be with the haves, but we are NC State after all…

    Good thing is the money will be there for everyone so if you’re going to be irrelevant, you might as well get paid well.

  17. 61Packer 09/20/2011 at 8:05 PM #

    WHY would Notre Dame want to come to the ACC, when all they’d have to do to get into the Big Ten would be to ASK? ND’s biggest rival is Michigan, and their other chief rivals, excepting USC, are MSU, OSU, Indiana and Purdue, all which are an easy bus ride from South Bend. Believe me, ND will go nowhere but to the Big Ten IF they go to a conference at all. The Big Ten Conference is by far the most tradition-bound league in the country, and I don’t see any expansion on their part unless Notre Dame applies.

    ACC membership would force the Irish to replace at least some of the above rivals with flights to faraway ACC teams they’ve seldom played and couldn’t care less about playing, and the same scenario would be created for Texas if they chose the ACC.

    Texas and ND to the ACC would be the worst thing that could happen to our league, period. Equal revenue sharing would be out the door. Texas would have to be promised half the league, and Notre Dame the other half. Then, both would constantly fight over the other having the other half.

    Please, keep ’em both out!

  18. TheCOWDOG 09/20/2011 at 8:11 PM #

    That’s great, it starts with an earthquake, birds and
    snakes, an aeroplane and Lenny Bruce is not afraid.
    Eye of a hurricane, listen to yourself churn – world
    serves its own needs, dummy serve your own needs. Feed
    it off an aux speak, grunt, no, strength, the Ladder
    start to clatter with fear fight down height. Wire
    in a fire, representing seven games, and a government
    for hire at a combat site. Left of west and coming in
    a hurry with the furys breathing down your neck. Team
    by team reporters baffled, trumped, tethered cropped.
    Look at that low playing. Fine, then. Uh oh,
    overflow, population, common food, but it’ll do to Save
    yourself, serve yourself. World serves its own needs,
    listen to your heart bleed dummy with the rapture and
    the revered and the right, right. You vitriolic,
    patriotic, slam, fight, bright light, feeling pretty
    psyched.

    It’s the end of the world as we know it.
    It’s the end of the world as we know it.
    It’s the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

    Six o’clock – TV hour. Don’t get caught in foreign
    towers. Slash and burn, return, listen to yourself
    churn. Lock it in, uniforming, book burning, blood
    letting. Every motive escalate. Automotive incinerate.
    Light a candle, light a motive. Step down, step down.
    Watch your heel crush, crushed, uh-oh, this means no
    fear cavalier. Renegade steer clear! A tournament,
    tournament, a tournament of lies. Offer me solutions,
    offer me alternatives and I decline.

    It’s the end of the world as we know it.
    It’s the end of the world as we know it.
    It’s the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

    The other night I dreamt of knives, continental
    drift divide. Mountains sit in a line, Leonard
    Bernstein. Leonid Brezhnev, Lenny Bruce and Lester
    Bangs. Birthday party, cheesecake, jelly bean, boom! You
    symbiotic, patriotic, slam bug net, right? Right.

    It’s the end of the world as we know it.
    It’s the end of the world as we know it.
    It’s the end of the world as we know it and I feel
    fine…fine…

  19. old13 09/20/2011 at 8:12 PM #

    Seems to me that both ND and UT are in a pickle right now. Their “private” networks and ND’s indy status have become great albatrosses for them. It would seem for them to end up in a good situation, they are going to have to give some (alot) on those items, whether it be that they end up in the ACC, Pac __, B1G, Big (Medium-sized) East or Big 9-was-12. And, as for all of us, being in a conference is going to be paramount to having a successful FB/BB program going forward as otherewise they are left out in the FB/BB cold. Given all of this, I would think that the ACC has a decent chance of getting one or both of them (understanding that UT also has TT hanging around its leg to deal with as well.) Swofford isn’t holding two positions open in the ACC for nothing (and it has nothing to do with being “very pleased” with our current 14 IMO!)

  20. 61Packer 09/20/2011 at 8:13 PM #

    Birmingham News reporting tonight that Missouri is leaving the Big XII and heading for the SEC.

  21. NelsonHall97 09/20/2011 at 8:15 PM #

    “the ACC just hit a homerun,with Pitt and Cuse, for basketball! We will never be the premier fb conf unless ND and Texas join. this is a win/win- fb relevance with BCS bid and bb dominance. Add UConn and ACC has east coast locked up.”

    I agree adding Pitt and Cuse makes us a much more powerful BB conference and adding UCONN +1 will make the ACC the premier basketball conference in the nation. I’m not sure adding Pitt and Cuse gives us football relevance…they just add average to average. BUT…if the +1 is ND, UT or Penn State we might be relevant, but still carlenghs behind SEC. If you replace UCONN +1 with two of ND, UT or Penn State THEN we might have a football conference argument.

  22. NelsonHall97 09/20/2011 at 8:25 PM #

    I agree with other posts that ACC may sit tight at 14 and flirt with many potential schools. I hope Swoff has a short wish list and that he keeps the lines open with them. I don’t see the ACC making any more moves until OK and/or UT pull out of the BIG 12.

    I HOPE the ACC doesn’t add UT. They’ve killed two conferences alreay and are too full of themselves. I think the LHN is a cancer and can’t see any way that would work out with the ACC. I could see Penn State being a really good fit, but I doubt they’d leave B1G. ND is an interesting option, but the same argument against UT can be used against ND (except conference killer). I guess ND is closer and more palatable than UT, so let’s hope for a ND + Penn State coup (even though it will never happen).

  23. Wolfy__79 09/20/2011 at 8:47 PM #

    i can’t stand notre dame, i can’t stand texas. i’m with the above.. keep both of their asses out. syracuse and pitt were decent moves.. i just hope we don’t get too far ahead of ourselves. add penn st and uconn before you add the irish or theh longhorns. notre dame should join the big ten and texas should entertain them too, along with the sec…although i don’t think either will be a good fit. they really need to fight for their present conference.

    i’m afraid that the acc expansion will further dilute the tourney in greensboro to it’s near end. i hope for the opposite, that they use this as an oppurtuinity to lock up a couple of two or three year spans at greensboro.. rebuild that place.. it needs work.. sure sprinkle in msg if you have to.. but not 100 percent.

  24. wheresthedefensein2011 09/20/2011 at 9:28 PM #

    Does re-opening the contracts mean they ultimately will stay with ESPN/DisneyABC? I know NBC is going to rename Versus as NBC Sports Network, and they need programming. Does perhaps Notre Dame coming to the ACC lead us to a future where the ACC will cash in as the /only/ college conference on NBC? Comcast now owns NBC/Universal, I could see them allowing the “new” NBC sports network to be on basic tiers of Comcast, Time Warner and Dish/Directv. NBC only has NFL one night a week and the NHL and Olympics, they are going to need product to take on ESPN/Disney. The ACC on NBC for basketball and Football could have the conference printing money for years to come.

  25. HPWolf 09/20/2011 at 10:20 PM #

    OLD 13, I didn’t say Texas and Notre Dame weren’t high academic schools. I said the days of our high academic ACC were over and that we had to add football heavyweights. That could be any successful football program. Obviously Texas and Notre Dame are both football heavyweights and high academic institutions. They of course are a best case scenario along with maybe a Penn State. The whole idea is to look attractive as a football conference for tv contracts. The bottom line is it isn’t about the academic fit any longer. Its only about how good your football program is. Sad but true.

Leave a Reply