The State of State Football (Pre-October)

'11 Football ACC & Other NC State122

“They had more energy than we did. You can’t do that, especially on the road in a conference game.” -TOB’s post-game comments after the Wake game.

After the loses to Wake Forest and Cincinnati, the Wolfpack’s only two D1A games this season, a lot of people are left look at Tom O’Brien for encouragement and signs of life, especially before meeting up with Georgia Tech on October 1.  Showing the fanbase something to get excited over has never been Tom’s strong point and now that affect is starting to seep into the roster and the fanbase.  Let’s review where we are against D1A opponents (and stay tuned for the “NC State Football By The Numbers” segment that WV Wolf posts weekly).  Maybe we can look at where we are and figure out what to expect from here.

Where we currently stand.

First, some combined stats from our two D1A match-ups…

NC State 2011 Craptacular! 34-27 Loss 44-14 Loss D1A Totals
NCSU @WF NCSU @Cincy NCSU Opp.
1st Downs
 19 22 13 24 32 46
Total Yards 424 438 322 503 746 941
Passing 315 337 348 263 663 600
Comp-Att
 24 41 23 36 28 40 25 34 52 81 48 70
Yards per pass
 7.7 9.4 8.7 7.7 8.2 8.55
Rushing 109 101 -26 240 83 341
Rushing Attempts
 26 34 22 46 48 80
Yards per rush
 4.2 3 -1.2 5.2 1.5 4.1
Penalties 4 33 4 42 6 40 3 35 10 73 7 77
Turnovers 1 1 3 1 4 2
Fumbles Lost
 0 0 1 0 1 0
Interceptions thrown
 1 1 2 1 3 2
Possession 29:35:00 30:25:00 26:04:00 33:56:00 55:39:00 64:21:00

A few other factoids from the stats:
– Glennon is achieving a 64% completion rate.  Our opponents are completing 69%.  Consider that both Wake and Cincy’s QBs are “experienced”.  Also note that he is only completing 1 foot LESS per attempt than his competition.  Guys, Glennon is good.

– NC State out-threw both of their opponents, but is getting crushed in rushing offense (83 vs 341 yards).  Some of this stat includes the terrible offensive line which lead to multiple sacks, including one for -14 yards last night. 

– We are averaging 1.5 yards per rush.  Some of this is due to the sacks being averaged into the 83-yard statistic, but from looking at the game, it’s obvious that the predictable play-calling is part of the blame.  According to ESPN, last night’s rushing performance marks the worst in the entire ACC since 2001.

– On 1st and 10 situations, Bible called a rush up the middle 3 out of 4 times against Cincy in the first quarter for total yardage of -1 yard. 

-Glennon was not sacked once during the Wake Forest game, but suffered 6 sacks last night against Cincy.

Injuries, Personnel And Depth

NC State obviously has issues with injuries.  The question is, can the problems experienced by our team, primarily on defense, be explained by injuries?

Before last night, NC State had the following injuries: Mustafa Greene, HB; Terrell Manning, LB; J.R. Sweezy, DT; Thomas Teal, DT; Andrew Wallace, OG. During the game last night, Brian Slay was also taken out of the game as well as AJ Ferguson, who later returned.  That leaves… ummm… crap.

Things got to the point that we were sending the walk-ons to the field.  Now, for those who have never been through the NCAA recruiting circus, it’s important to note that walk-ons at the D1A level are frequently players that are extremely talented and coaches ask to come play for them with the promise that if they stick it out for a year, and a scholarship opens up the next season, they might sign them on.  I’ve heard it said walk-ons at the D1A level are frequently players that would be solid at the D1AA level.  Still, when Ferguson was helped off the field, we had Jacob Kahut (6’4″ 245 JUCO from Campbell) in at defensive tackle.  Understatement of the season: We’re thin.  Very thin.

With regards to recruiting, the battle lines are pretty clearly drawn.  There are those that think O’Brien has the right idea in trying to identify not chasing talent then there are those that are saying you can only get so “good” with solid coaching and no raw talent.  Either way, if you look at O’Brien’s recruits, you see a ton of 3-star recruits, several 2-star recruits, and a few walk-ons.  As far as four stars go…
– 2008: Brandon Barnes (ATH), Mike Glennon (QB), Sam Jones (OL), Kyle Linney (DT), Turrel Manning (LB), RJ Mattes (OL)
– 2009: Byrd (DB)
– 2010: Crisp (OT), Hunter (DE), Randolph (DT), Amerson (S)
– 2011: Hakeem Flowers (WR)
-2012: James Summers (ATH)

Draw your own conclusions from that list.  Even if you aren’t a fan of “star chasing”, just look at the 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes.  My question would be how aggressively O’Brien’s staff has been in capitalizing on the success of the 2010 season in landing top-level talent.  So far, O’Brien’s first recruiting class has been his best by far, but that was also when he was able to rest on the laurels of his success at Boston College.  Again, I’ll let the community draw conclusions from this statement.

Remaining Schedule

Left on the schedule we have 3 currently ranked opponents, 3 away games (one against #11 FSU), and one OOC opponent.

#25 Georgia Tech – Oct 1
Central Michigan – Oct 8
***BYE WEEK***
@Virginia – Oct 22
@#11Florida State – Oct 29
UNC-CHeat – Nov 5
@Boston College – Nov 12
#21 Clemson – Nov 19
Maryland – Nov 26

A lot of discussion is going on over at the SFN message boards concerning what many people predicted pre-season and what people predict will occur now.  I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that it’s going to be a tough road and absolutely nothing on the schedule can be taken for granted.

Other News and Some [Editorialized] Thoughts

Some time ago, I did a series called “Benchmark Tom O’Brien” (Link 1, Link 2) in which I compared TOB’s success to those of our previous coaches.  Some members of our community were in agreement, but after the 9-win season last year, man were not.  That is the problem with 9-win season after several years of sub-standard performance: you can’t be certain whether one season is “turning the corner” or a flash in the pan.  Tom, for whatever reason, just hasn’t panned out at NC State and there isn’t much hope to think, moving forward into October competition against a ranked and pissed-off Georgia Tech that we will get too much better.

In addition to that, JP Giglio over at the News and Observer supposedly said that the coaching staff is considering a redshirt for Mustafa Greene this season.  So why would a coach in a rut, 4 games into the season, begin considering redshirting their best running back?

Looks to me like O’Brien, the strong, disciplined legend from Boston College, has decided to follow the same template he did during the end of the Wake Forest game:

“I’m not into all this ‘we fought back’ and all that. We lost the game.”
-TOB’s post-game comments after the Wake game.

Way to fight to the end there, Tom. If this is the same mentality that surrounding the locker room, maybe that explains a lot.

About NCStatePride

***ABOUT THE AUTHOR: NCStatePride has been writing for StateFansNation.com since 2010 and is a 2009 graduate of the College of Engineering.

'11 Football ACC & Other NC State

122 Responses to The State of State Football (Pre-October)

  1. old13 09/25/2011 at 9:26 AM #

    If Clemson plays this week like they did yesterday, their VaTech game will be a laugher . . . IF!

  2. triadwolf 09/25/2011 at 10:56 AM #

    “It was great watching that Clemson/FSU game yesterday. Two good, athletic teams and a GREAT atmosphere for college football. We are so far behind those two programs it isn’t even funny.”

    We beat one of those programs last year and should have beat the other. Our atmosphere in Carter Finley is extremely good, especially when you consider our historical record. With the right staff we can be a top 25 team and maybe occasionally break the top 10. We don’t need a superstar, we just need the right guy. I don’t pretend to know who that person is, but there are few who get paid very well to know; they have the ability to start our trip to the next level – the question is will they?

    Perhaps the addition of Pitt and SU, two respectable programs that have the potential to push us further down the ACC hierarchy, is the catalyst we need to get DY and company to make sure we get the next one right.

  3. mak4dpak 09/25/2011 at 11:10 AM #

    For kab2011, the email for DY, is [email protected]

  4. legacyman 09/25/2011 at 11:12 AM #

    We need athletes that can play football. If a coach can not produce that then he can not produce a winning record. Our problems are not the defensive coordinator nor the offensive coordinator nor TOB’s poor decisions…it is the fact that we have no athletes or very few that know how to play football.

    Last year we had one of the top three or four QBs in our history and one of the top defensive players ever in Raleigh and the results showed in the 9-4 record. This year we have neither and no backups for them. Yes, MG can throw a long ball if TJ gets wide open but can he sustain 80 yard drives more than once or twice per game? And can our defense ever stop anyone? I have my doubts and that is extremely sad after four years with TOB.

  5. kab2011 09/25/2011 at 11:15 AM #

    I got it, thanks, & sent her an email last night that took an hour to write detailing all the frustrations within the program. I would post it but don’t think it would be appropriate in this venue since I sent direct to her.

  6. TeufelWolf 09/25/2011 at 11:45 AM #

    I think the banner is funny. I don’t see it as THAT offensive. It mearly points out that if we want to pull for a winning team this season, maybe try Wisconsin since they have one of our boys. I seriously doubt the players read this blog. They are too busy being champions in the classroom and practicing (or are they). Kidding, kidding, calm down. I’m a HUGE State fan and would never be otherwise. If they are embarasssed then it’s because they played embarassingly and frankly, when I got back to work, I was a little embarassed myself.

    What I don’t understand is how we are so far behind ‘those’ programs. Do you mean total wins and losses? If so, then yes I see what you mean. If you mean ability to win, then I disagree. We beat FSU last year. We were the first team in the ACC to consistently beat them. Do you mean crowd/atmosphere? TOB was drawn to State because of the football atmosphere. Bobby Bowden himself said that Carter Finley was the loudest place he’s ever played. Do you mean band? Because we have the World’s Most Dangerous Band; for those of you who listen before the game. I know you don’t mean fan loyalty. Because holy cow, to put up with what we’ve put up with for so long… no one can question our loyalty. Every now and then we should be allowed to poke fun at ourselves with a funny banner — just to keep our sanity.

    GO PACK!

  7. Wulfpack 09/25/2011 at 11:55 AM #

    I mean athleticism, depth, and passion.

  8. jljones 09/25/2011 at 1:40 PM #

    After reading the various posts it appears there are alot of people who know football and there are some who are limited in their knowledge and but state their opinion based on hope and want to wait on a miracle to occur. I have done the same in my early years of support but wised up later and realized I was being duped. I have been around big time supporters of competitive programs and finally had to conclude that we at State are not committed AT THE TOP to a football program. There may be finicial restrictions or we just cheap. What ever the problem may be the ho nchos need to come clean and state the facts openly instead of continuing to DUPE state fans with all of the stupid positive hype about an obvious losing situation. It appears those at the top are interested in one thing–keeping their job by saying the polictically correct thing and expecting knowledgeable fans to remain silent. These fans saw this coming 2 years ago. No athletes recruited, poor defensive coach, injury excuses (lack o depth) etc. and after 4 + years the same old same old. It seems to always to take a disaster to get any reaction out of our so called leadership. It seems to me that we are instruted to only be a pseudo contendor to UNC much less a national threat

  9. Wulfpack 09/25/2011 at 1:50 PM #

    Well, one thing is for sure. If this keeps up another couple of games and it’s clear we have moved backward, Yow will be forced to make a huge decision (at the end of the season, obviously). I don’t know for certain that we aren’t committed to winning (I would need some more evidence). But we sure don’t seem to know how on any kind of consistent basis.

  10. WuffDad 09/25/2011 at 2:10 PM #

    I saw three extremely exciting ACC teams this weekend. Clemson, FSU, and GT (who runs the ball). They have bigger, stronger and more enthusiastic players. We don’t belong in their league and they will erase any lingering doubt soon enough.

    I just don’t understand how a group of players can work year round to prepare for a 12, TWELVE game season (48 game career if no bowls) and come out in any game flat. One-third of the season is gone already.

    If I were Mike Glennon I know what I would do….

    Transfer to Wisconsin next year – they will need a quarterback.

    NCStatePride: Huh… now there is an interesting idea. Maybe NC State’s path to national prominence is becoming the nation’s QB farm. Ha!

  11. bigwolfpacker 09/25/2011 at 8:28 PM #

    If Greene isnt going to be 100% in the next game or two, Id redshirt him too. That being said, if we could get our players back, especially on D, then we could still win several games and have a successful season.

  12. Ashman87 09/25/2011 at 8:29 PM #

    I think the the two players who are currently injured that State needs the most are Sweezy and Greene. I was sort of surprised when Sweezy, not Manninng or Cole, was named Defensive captain. After the September part of the schedule was finished, I now know why. As for Greene, early on, TOB wanted to take as much pressure off Glennon as he could. You do that by running the football effectively. Against FBS competition, State has not been able to run effectively because Greene is injured. As a result, Glennon has been asked to do way more than was planned. No wonder the Pack is 2-2 and will be demolished by GT this Saturday.

  13. tuckerdorm1983 09/25/2011 at 8:33 PM #

    here was my prediction for the Cinn Game

    1st quarter
    predicted pack 3 cinn 17 actual pack 0 cinn 14

    2nd quarter
    predicted pack 17 cinn 27 actual pack 7 cinn 24

    3rd quarter
    predicted pack 20 cinn 41 actual pack 14 cinn 41

    4th quarter
    predicted pack 27 cinn 48 actual pack 14 cinn 44

    I was not too far off, except I thought our offense would score more.

    Next week GT

    1st quarter pack 3 GT 10
    2nd quarter pack 10 GT 27
    3rd quarter pack 13 GT 44
    4th quarter pack 20 GT 47

    we run out of any gas on defense in the 3rd quarter and in the 4th they run the ball to take time off the clock.

  14. pack76 09/25/2011 at 8:59 PM #

    I’ve been following Wolfpack football since 1973 and have never seen a Wolfpack team, good or bad team, look so unprepared as the team did Thursday. They didn’t look like they knew what to do and when to do it. Then as things got bad they look to their coach and he just lowers his head and shrugs! Whats wrong with this picture??? Something needs to be done NOW!!!!

  15. mak4dpak 09/25/2011 at 9:16 PM #

    I guess bad players follow Archer, as he had crappy defenses in his other stints, creating a demotion at Kentucky. Don’t blame the guys, blame the teachers. Our defenses under O’Brien have never been at the top in the league, even with our record last season. We can blame BC for taking TOBs DC, and naming him the BC coach. Had that not happened our defense would not have its current issues, year in and year out. Archer would not be part of the equation. And although I agree with pack76 about the guys lookiing lost. The game was Thursday, not Saturday, not that it would make any difference when they played.

  16. NCStatePride 09/25/2011 at 10:42 PM #

    Wait, blame BC? We poach a fellow-ACC member’s head coach and we can “blame BC for taking TOB’s DC?” I think you got that wrong… we took a fellow-ACC member’s HC and it’s TOB’s job to convince his staff that they are best off sticking with him. His DC decided to stay…. he was poached by BC.

    Getting Archer was a “Oh shit, I need a DC” decision. That’s okay, and you can accept that it was what TOB had to do. I recall when O’Brien came to NC State with Archer, people were concerned in year 1… but many acknowledged ‘what else could he have done in a pinch?’ The problem is not that he initially hired Archer, but that well after it was obvious Archer was sub-standard and after an appropriate time had elapsed for O’Brien to find a suitable replacement, he still stuck by Archer.

    I have long thought that bringing in Tenuta was just as much to make Archer look better than it was to improve the D-line.

  17. JaxPackMan 09/25/2011 at 11:15 PM #

    State football is not an oxymoron. I’ve been a State fan for most of my 58 years – following the football and basketball teams for just as long. I never understood why the football team hasn’t performed better over the years. I always thought the ingredients existed at State to have a consistent winner. But it doesn’t seem to matter who the coach is. With the exception of a few good years, the legacy of State Football has been fighting to overcome futility and mediocrity. Despite State’s struggles to become a consistent winner; however, there have been some truly great individual performers come through the program which is a tribute to the coaches and players involved.

    Seems to me a reasonable goal for the program would be to consistently finish in the top half of the league and every 4-8 years get to the conference Championship Game. The program has the factors needed to recruit good players: 1) Facilities – With the recent upgrades to Carter-Finley and other football related facilities, 2) Fan Base – State has a large and loyal fan base. Alumni, Friends and Wolfpack Club members have bought a ton of season tickets over the past several years – selling out the stadium for most home games. The student body is now up to around 35,000 and supports athletics with its fees and fannies., 3) Campus Life – a large state university with a huge number of majors and schools of study. Social life must be quite a bit different from what I experienced as a State undergrad in the mid-70’s.
    Despite these good factors going for it, for some reason State is unable to get very many of the 4-star recruits.

    In terms of athletic budget, I’ve seen articles where State ranks low compared to other schools in the conference. I would expect us to be higher, given our size and alumni base. I suppose that means the Wolfpack Club has a large number of members, but most only give a relatively small amount. State seems to have adequate funds, but any school could use more. I do question the expenses for all schools; however, especially why so many assistant football coaches are necessary.

    I am forever hopeful that one day State will have a consistent, winning, and successful football program. Unfortunately, the way this year has started they will be fortunate to win another game this season given the status of injured starters and reserves.

    Someday I hope The Pack will figure it out and begin signing up better players.

    Until later…PackMan in Jacksonville, FL

  18. gotohe11carolina 09/25/2011 at 11:20 PM #

    let’s not put anymore lipstick on this pig guys. until we decide we want to put big boy money into our program we’ll keep winding up I’m the same spot. if we don’t wanna spend the 3 to 4 million necessary to hire a “name” coach we won’t get one we want. if we are gonna keep nickel and diming it let’s get young guys who are excited and ready to take on the world. to put this in a little perspective tob is in the bottom third of d1 coaches who are not interim or in their first years as a head coach, not saying that he deserves more given performance but I think you can see what I’m saying. uf’s ad is making nearly what we guarantee our coach. I promise that if we throw enough money at this.problem it will fix itself; look at Oregon or OK state if you don’t think money will solve it.

    NCStatePride: Football is not basketball. Recalled that Butch Davis was considered a “hired gun” and costs a little more than $2 million. I’m not saying $2 million is chump change (it’s much more than what O’Brien is getting paid) but it is a far cry from the $3 million – $4 million that you may be thinking it would take if you are taking lessons from our last hoops search.

  19. Gene 09/26/2011 at 8:32 AM #

    “For kab2011, the email for DY”

    I sent Debbie Yow an e-mail on Saturday. She sent a short reply back and mentioned what the topic of my e-mail, which indicates to me she actually read it, unlike the boiler plate “I appreciate your concern, go Pack” crap from Lee Fowler.

    “Yes, MG can throw a long ball if TJ gets wide open but can he sustain 80 yard drives more than once or twice per game? And can our defense ever stop anyone? ”

    Hard to sustain drives without a running game. Can the defense stop anyone? Nope. They are very bad.

  20. mak4dpak 09/26/2011 at 7:08 PM #

    Sorry I got it right, as the BC DC would be crazy to turn down a HC job, to remain an assistant for anyone. But regardless, we are screwed by TOBs loyalty to make changes in his staff, and Archer is awful. I am sure on that we agree. As for poaching TOB from BC, it has always been my understanding that he initiated contact with State, and not us with him. And has everyone forgotten Bobby Ross coached at Maryland, and GT.

  21. the reality 09/26/2011 at 9:18 PM #

    ^I believe you are right about TOB contacting State stuff, or so the story goes anyway. Either way, and regardless of who contacted whom, I didn’t especially like the “poaching” aspect back when it occurred, but that aspect was of secondary concern to me. Just never felt much of an urge to step aboard the TOBBW myself.

  22. mak4dpak 09/26/2011 at 10:44 PM #

    Not a huge TOBBW myself, but since he is coach of the team, I have to support my team. Surely would rather have had P Johnson, who was in the running, but Foulup Fowler jumped on TOB.

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