Should there be a Baker/Simmons prong?

UNC Scandal16

The saga of the UNC-CH football scandals continues to unfold like a Dan Brown novel.  This entry  made today on frumpzilla takes a detailed look at the recruitment of Delvon Simmons and the employment of Brian Baker, who worked under Butch as UNC’s defensive line coach for about a month, leaving just after signing day.

We wrote about the timeline of this story last week here.

Certainly, there can’t be recruiting violations. However the story with Baker still illustrates the consistent staff turnover that has occurred under Butch Davis at UNC which at some point recruits will have to notice.

Announce the hiring of a month before signing day, never sign him to a contract or tell the media he hasn’t signed a contract, have the temporary coach recruit several key recruits, then announce the temporary coach is leaving after signing day.

The Carolina Way.

UNC Scandal

16 Responses to Should there be a Baker/Simmons prong?

  1. Hungwolf 02/14/2011 at 12:19 PM #

    UNX, Butch, Baddour, and Thorpe show no fear of the NCAA at all and seem to be content with strectching the limits of the rules if not outright breaking them. Clearly they intend to take on the NCAA if they should ever dare sanction UNX. Is UNX going to be to the NCAA what Al Davis has been to the NFL?

  2. daly 02/14/2011 at 12:23 PM #

    they have no fear of the NCAA doing anything of substance to them. We’ve all seen entities like UNC acting with total disregard to the rules that all the minions have to follow–or the small people as Leona Helmsly so infamously said.

    I quit watching most sports because the money, the attitudes got more than I could stomach. If the NC2A allows UNC to skirt, after we have been on bascialy a 20 yar self imposed death penalty, then college sports can kiss me good by too.

  3. packalum44 02/14/2011 at 12:32 PM #

    Spoke to an old acquaintance who is a UNC alumnus. Said UNC would not get punished because:

    1- The players receiving improper benefits never played. They received benefits during the off-season and they were punished.

    2- They could not prove that the money received by John Blake from Gary was not a loan.

    I smiled and nodded. Apparently everyone cheats according to him. I informed him that Tom O’Brien has kicked over a dozen players off the team for academic/personal reasons. What can I say, ignorance is bliss.

  4. albunde6 02/14/2011 at 12:35 PM #

    Question? Can you recruit for D1 program when not employed by program? If you did not have contract, then where you employed? May not be violation, but certainly not ethical with regard to recruits. Can anyone clarify? Thanks.

  5. Mike 02/14/2011 at 12:44 PM #

    Albunde6 – NO, you cannot recruit if not employed. The question remains without a contract if he is technically employed. I am employed with my company I have no contract. I signed an employment offer, but there never was a contract.

  6. GAWolf 02/14/2011 at 12:58 PM #

    People take jobs with private companies all the time without actually putting it in writing. I think the bigger, and better, question is what the State of NC’s policy is regarding employment. Does a NC employee have to have something in writing. If so, they breached State policy at the very least.

  7. triadwolf 02/14/2011 at 1:10 PM #

    I don’t know the exact rules, but I’m pretty sure NCAA has pretty strict standards regarding recruit contact on behalf of a school. Lowe could not even contact our signees until he had become officially employeed by NCSU (which he could not do until he obtained a college degree) and successfully passed a NCAA rules/recruiting test.

    Wasn’t there even a stink about some NCSU alums starting a facebook page aimed at specific recruits? Didn’t the university make them delete the account/page because in violated NCAA rules?

    Contacting a recruit as a university representative has to fall under some pretty strict NCAA guidelines; it hits right at the heart of the whole recruiting process.

  8. Wolfy__79 02/14/2011 at 1:12 PM #

    …with all the legal consulting that im sure unc-ch receives.. this is probably a calculated move that has no penalty. the recruiting infractions are not, but they’ve probably found a loop hole with that too. good news, unx’s best team couldn’t beat us and they’ve reloaded with more of the same.. except no yates, who isn’t good but a senior acc qb all the same. i’m glad we have tob at the helm, our players are challenged to be stand up players on and off the field.

    unc-ch is already off the hook.. and if not, they will appeal the ncaa until it’s no longer an issue or bmfd is long gone from that school. one of my unx buddies has the same opinion.. that nothing will happen, and i kind of agree (sadly). but maybe the good guys will win this one? i doubt it though!!

  9. tjfoose1 02/14/2011 at 1:17 PM #

    Coaches working before or between signing contracts is not unusual (but I bet Gillispie wishes he had signed one at Kentucky). I seriously doubt there is anything against the rules per UNC/Baker, but definitely plenty of dishonesty and shadiness.

    Just ask those recruits who were purposely led to believe they’d be learning from a proven NFL coach.

  10. albunde6 02/14/2011 at 1:17 PM #

    Thanks, was under impression that you had to be under contract.

    Surprised we have not heard from parents of these recruits over the bait and switch they just received. If you did this to my child, then you have to explain why I should honor my commitment.

  11. PackerInRussia 02/14/2011 at 1:32 PM #

    If this were the only thing that had happened, I think you could make a case that we’re being conspiracy hunters and that it should probably just be left alone. Given everything else going on over there, I think you have to dig a little deeper just in case. They can no longer be given the benefit of the doubt. They’ve been given too many benefits.

  12. triadwolf 02/14/2011 at 1:34 PM #

    I think the issue here is that fact that Baker comes from the professional ranks is not a just a college coach changing jobs. I’m pretty sure he is not supposed to contact any recruits until he passes the NCAA rules test. Perhaps he was in the college ranks previously and was still in good standing with the NCAA, but I suspect not. The rule may only apply to head coaches, but I thought it applied to anyone on staff that contacted recuits off campus. But it is UNC afterall, so logic and rules don’t always apply.

  13. tjfoose1 02/14/2011 at 1:52 PM #

    Per another poster un the forums, he HS already passed the test.

  14. PackMan97 02/14/2011 at 1:58 PM #

    triadwolf,

    Prior to becoming an NFL coach, he had coached for 12 years in the college ranks at MD, Army and GT (was the DL coach win they won their championship in ’90).

    The only thing fishy about this is the recruit and the timing, none of which can likely be proven. Baker’s credentials as a college coach are rock solid, imo.

  15. triadwolf 02/14/2011 at 3:53 PM #

    Thanks for that info. Now it just goes from breaking rules to misleading recruits…The Carolina Way.

    Playing a pick-up basketball game with a star recruit that’s already committed to your school is way worst than this.

  16. fullmoon1 02/14/2011 at 6:00 PM #

    Of course there should be a Baker and Simmons prong but unfortunately these prongs aren’t very sharp like a pitch fork, more like the prongs of a spork.

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