OBS: It’s Charlotte vs Raleigh, again

Miscellaneous & Fun Stuff39

I need a distraction from the trainwreck that is NC State Basketball.

Since it is Sunday…and, since Sundays (and the Sunday newspaper) are made for ‘feature’ items, editorials and debates…I thought it would fit to link this editorial in today’s Charlotte Observer reviewing some of the past barbs between the two major newspapers in the state (that are now owned by the same company).

Having spent 19 of my last 23 years split between Raleigh and Charlotte I must admit that my very first thought after learning of Duke Energy’s acquisition of Progress Energy turned to the geographical and political rivalry that is Charlotte vs Raleigh.

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I have one NC State-related comment to make about this paragraph in the article:

Then-Charlotte columnist Don Hudson once noted that “people question whether Charlotte can ever get a fair shake in Raleigh.” That question came up when Charlotte asked the General Assembly, which sits in Raleigh, to help finance a new coliseum. “It was not ‘No,’ but ‘No way.’ But when Raleigh wanted a new arena for the NHL Hurricanes and N.C. State University two years ago, the state pumped in $60 million,” he wrote.

Regardless of what side of what fences you may sit…take a step back from this from a moment and sit your biases to the side.

Surely one can see that there is a huge difference between state taxpayer support for
(1) a generally multi-purpose arena (whether it be the old Charlotte Coliseum on Tyvola Road or the newer Bobcats Arena in downtown) used primarily for the private gain of owners of a single entity (NBA franchise), and/or
(2) a multi-purpose facility that’s use generally mirrors that of the arena in Charlotte, but also brings to the table significant use/need of the largest (PUBLIC) university in the state who also is contributing approximately $66 million in value to the project between cash and land.

Do the masterminds at the Charlotte Observer really not see the differentiation of the two projects? Had Charlotte’s arena included the needs and significant financial support (33% of the project costs) of the largest public university in the State of North Carolina wouldn’t the outcome have been different? Of course it would’ve.

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While we are talking non-sports, NC State-related, ‘Raleigh-stuff’….please allow me to share this link with you about the recent spike in development planned around NC State University. It is both interesting and encouraging.

Plus the 7 story, 300 unit building at the Corner of Oberlin and Peace/Clark in Cameron Village is still going to happen. It appears this area is the next area for major investments by private industry. This is the type of investment needed to turn H-Street around.

So essentially there are 4 projects going up:

1. Stanhope – behind the used book store on H-Street near the new headquarters of Lulu(who did a fabulous job with their building)

2. 2 acre development across from Bell Tower which is currently run down retail space. This is right in the heart of H-street and is awful considering Sadlacks is still thriving next door.

3. The area down H-Street near the Y and I-Hop. This area could turn into a new destination in Raleigh.

4. Cameron Village tower .25 miles from H-Street

By my count, there are about 1000+ new residential units, commercial space, retail space, and multiple parking decks going up adjacent or very near to campus.

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Miscellaneous & Fun Stuff

39 Responses to OBS: It’s Charlotte vs Raleigh, again

  1. LKNpackfan 01/16/2011 at 1:48 PM #

    The uptown arena is perhaps not the best example, even Charlotte/Meck taxpayers voted it down. Now, the 23 year battle that is the I-485 project, that is a case study in itself.

  2. Manu Ginobili 01/16/2011 at 1:49 PM #

    I respectfully think that you are being too biased in favor of Raleigh and the RBC center. I understand that it is being used by a public institution, in addition to a private one, but at the end it is privately owned and operated, right? Same could be said about the UNC-Charlotte basketball team, that they could be using the arena built there and therefore public money is needed.

    I personally believe that taxpayer money should never go to a private enterprise with no benefits to the majority of the population, such as a sports arena. As a progressive, I believe it should go to other more important areas with real benefits to taxpayers, such as education or health care (which I acknowledge can also be provided by a private company, therefore the whole left vs right debate, but I don’t want to go there).

  3. ldr of the pk 75 01/16/2011 at 2:02 PM #

    Having read the Observer today, I must laugh again, as in the past. Both cities appear insecure. My comment on the above explanation of arenas and funding is this. When states and cities are broke as is the case in this state, politicians and power brokers seem to always find funding for the “wants and play pretties”, but struggle when revenues can’t seem to cover actual needs.

    Not sure I agree with the editorial about sending the Bobcats to Raleigh, though. They are at least making some progress in the basketball product being presented in their arena. Our NCSU product stinks.

    A “for real” gripe though, is the disparity in funding from the legislature, on road projects. Raleigh, and the Eastern part of the state, get far more consideration for road building than Charlotte, the largest city in the state. And my little county of Cabarrus,with the main “lead in” road next door to Charlotte from the Raleigh area, is still stuck with a “basic” Interstate Hwy, just as it was when built. So, that is a real life example of the disparity, not some jovial barb between paper editors. Just my two cents.

  4. jhmd2000 01/16/2011 at 2:03 PM #

    Having split time between the Triad and Triangle, I can say without fear of contradiction that there is widely-held perception that public money in this State is spent Raleigh and East, and the expense of the Central and West. A case could be made, solely on Basnight’s pork projects alone, but the med/dental schools in Greenville don’t exactly undermine it either.

  5. jhmd2000 01/16/2011 at 2:04 PM #

    While we’re on the subject: Why doesn’t Raleigh have an NFL franchise?
    A: B/c if they got one, then Charlotte would want one too.

  6. LKNpackfan 01/16/2011 at 2:21 PM #

    ^^that isn’t perception, it is reality. The equity formula is 80 years outdated, but since it still benefits the down east kleptocracy, all proposals to revise it using more meaningful inputs (like say, population) have been easily squashed.

    One cause for hope is Thom Tillis as speaker of the house. He’s an honest man from a historically under-represented district, he’ll need some help though.

  7. jhmd2000 01/16/2011 at 2:24 PM #

    ^ I was trying to be diplomatic, but an untrained monkey could see it. Interesting historical question: Why are Currituck, Camden, Pasquatank, Chowan, Gates, etc., etc., etc. so much smaller than the Counties in the West/Center?

  8. StateFans 01/16/2011 at 2:32 PM #

    There is NO DOUBT that the money has traditionally been split far too disproportionately in the past. Charlotte has most definitely taken in the shorts in appropriations for years.

    I, however, think the arena comparison/discussion between Raleigh & Charlotte is one of the worst examples of this inequality.

  9. StateFans 01/16/2011 at 2:34 PM #

    Hell…if you want to talk about inequality with funds used for sports facilities then look no further than Mark Basnight and the ‘weird’ funding of ECU’s perpetual improvements to their football stadium that they’ve never been able to sellout unless NC State, UNC or some other major school comes to town and brings their own fans.

    It is mindboggling.

  10. ncsslim 01/16/2011 at 4:12 PM #

    I saw an article recently that considered the issue of state highway expenditures. Said over the past decade, Mecklenburg despite having 9.7% if the state population received only 7.7% of the highway funding, making it 89th in state percapita spending. Wake, on the other hand, having 9.6% of the state population (which I imagine the two counties are probably virtually identical in the 2010 census) received a “whopping” 7.5% of highway funding, making it 90th in percapita spending.

    So you Charlotte guys may have a gripe in the way the funds are appropriated, but it ain’t because Raleigh’s grabbing all the loot, inspite of what you might be led to believe. One last statement in the article: although statewide 55% thinks they are getting screwed, 69% in Charlotte feels that way. Must be a Carowhina thing. Ya’ll do love your ‘Heels down there………….

  11. highstick 01/16/2011 at 4:23 PM #

    “I, however, think the arena comparison/discussion between Raleigh & Charlotte is one of the worst examples of this inequality.”

    I totally agree, Statefans…Having lived in both places(currently Rock Hill, but still pay North Carolina taxes). A comparison and argument over the two arenas is like comparing “apples and coconuts”. Bobcat was driven by the “uptown crowd” to get NBA basketball “uptown” after the debacle with Shinn, Woolridge, and the Hornets. I know a lot of people don’t like it because the RBC is a “shared arena” and want it back on the campus, but politically that was not gonna happen at that time.

    We take it “in the pants” with roads up here and was one of the bigger factors in my choice as to where to live. I can still drive w/o a problem into Charlotte until I hit the logjam at 485 in the mornings. That was also a major factor when I decided to semi retire and telecommute.

    Stirring up a bunch of more crap between the two cities is counterproductive, but that’s the nature of the editorial board of the Charlotte Disturber…

    I was living in Greenville when the Med School was starting up so I’ve seen the politics in all three places…Sometimes I think I’ve lived in three different countries in Raleigh, Charlotte, and Greenville.

  12. LKNpackfan 01/16/2011 at 5:03 PM #

    Slim, when Charlotteans say Raleigh, we mean the Capitol building. And I’d love a link to that article. There are several pots of money for road funding and one year’s statistics is hardly indicative.

  13. Wolfy__79 01/16/2011 at 5:09 PM #

    thanks for the change of pace SFN!

    which major city in NC is not a mess transforming from somewhat rural to urban pretenders in my young 31 years? the hornets should have never been sold for a unc bobcats team, imo. unfortunately i feel its not either/or but neither. both professional franchises represent really bad/dated organizational qualities to me and the main reason why there aren’t any championships with any affiliation to charlotte. whatever the hurricanes’ creators put in place worked and brought a an unlikely stanley cup to our state. if i were to make an argument for either city, it would ultimately belong to raleigh where there is/would be a pasionate fan base. i do feel that charlotte needs something and i suppose that best something would be the panthers. if raleigh were to inherit a nba franchise, let us please remove those hideous colors and any affiliation with unc-ch please.

    i love both cities, but i label them both a hot mess and spoiled to the hilt. i’m a laurinburg native, i would rather make an argument to why these huge cities bother whining at all when rural nc is decaying whilst being robbed of their spoils by these fat cows 🙂

  14. Wolfy__79 01/16/2011 at 5:17 PM #

    ^ i also think nc politics is dated and out of touch on both side 🙂

  15. Wolfy__79 01/16/2011 at 5:18 PM #

    ..*sides

  16. packfan03 01/16/2011 at 6:03 PM #

    Charlotte has a sweet light rail system. I’m jealous of that living in the Brier Creek area…

  17. Wolfy__79 01/16/2011 at 6:07 PM #

    nice!

  18. highstick 01/16/2011 at 6:49 PM #

    I agree with what someone said about “Raleigh” meaning “Capitol Building”…It’s not a “city versus city” thing, it’s a Eastern NC Democrat versus Republican western part of the state thing…

    Besides, population stats are the relevant issue. Try population densities, source of tax revenues, driver miles logged, or something else would be a more relevant statistic….

  19. highstick 01/16/2011 at 6:51 PM #

    Charlotte has a helluva debt on that light rail system too! Nice, particularly if you’re not paying for it…

    My round trip ticket including free parking is less than $2 a day..I can’t park anywhere that cheap in uptown…

  20. highstick 01/16/2011 at 6:53 PM #

    Laurinburg? You mean about 14 miles east of my hometown? Used to spend a lot of Friday nights playing BBall in your Catholic Church!

    However, to correct you, the Hornets weren’t sold..Charlotte was “sold out” when Ray Woolridges got his hooks into Shinn and screwed everything up. I’m no Shinn fan but Ray took him to the cleaners like a true New Orleans hooker…Shinn admits now that he screwed up, but Ray pissed off everyone so bad in Charlotte with his demands that it was inevitable. And Lynn Wheeler lost her City Council job over the arena…True, voters killed it, but Charlotte voters won’t approve anything but idiot councilmen who will spend someone else’s money and scream racism if they don’t get that money to blow!

    I hate Charlotte politics!! It’s a freakin’ joke!

  21. otisthetowndrunk 01/16/2011 at 6:58 PM #

    I think Shinn tried hold the city of Charlotte hostage for a new arena and then bailed when he did not get it. I was too young to remember if the Hornets arena was built with any public funds. If you are a taxpayer in the Charlotte area, I could only imagined feeling burned. The RBC just happened to have good timing, making it a multipurpose building took away some of the risk.

    Pro-teams don’t always stay but college ones rarely move. You have way less risk involved with an arena in Raleigh. I do remember Jim Rutherford putting in lots of his money into the arena,he changed the teams colors to match NC State. When it was about to open, and the seats were all the wrong color, he paid for new ones.

    Also didn’t Jerry Richardson pay for most of the Panthers stadium. A pro-team, of any sport, is a harder sell for taxpayers to get behind. Is not that hard to figure out.

    I am not sure that it is an Eastern Dem vs Western Rep type of thing. The people who were your traditional Eastern Democrats. are now Eastern Republicans. Walter B Jones (dem) was my rep when I was in high school, his son represents the same district as a republicans. It is the same type of oligarchical politics that has been so prevalent down east that they have push all the money down stream.

    I am not saying that they are bad people, but they know what they are doing, been doing it a long time and are good at it.

  22. highstick 01/16/2011 at 7:26 PM #

    Otis, the driving person behind Shinn was Woolridge who bought part of Shinn’s interest in the team. George got all screwed up with his trial for the sexcapades with the former Panther cheerleader..Ruined his credibility, but Woolridge took him to the cleaners cause he was defenseless(and not real smart either IMHO). You can blame Shinn, but Ray Woolridge was the partner driving the show at that time.

    I don’t see that you can compare RBC to the Bobcat/Hornet issue cause they were totally different political issues..

    The old arena was built with public money, but timing was bad cause no one could have predicted all of the skybox attraction at that time so the design sucked later. The Panther stadium is not owned by the city, but by selling PSL’s.

    I’d agree with your assessment of the eastern/western Dem’s, but NC money has always been driven by eastern North Carolina politics because of tobacco money! It’s changing now though..I think and I hope…If it had not been for Eastern NC tobacco, there would not be a med school in Greenville…

  23. Wolfy__79 01/16/2011 at 8:20 PM #

    haha, laurinburg and former tobacco farmer! i’m not a demorcrat thought 🙂 too hard to stomach.

  24. Wolfy__79 01/16/2011 at 8:21 PM #

    though*

  25. highstick 01/16/2011 at 8:49 PM #

    Wolfy, remember Leonard Thompson???? Played against him in HS…

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