Mid-Season BB Roundup

1/8 Update:

I made a horrible mistake when compiling the OOC SOS in the first table and totally screwed everything up.  Luckily, I copied and pasted the RPI numbers from CBS into a file and so I was able to correct the table.   The key changes are that:

– State’s OOC schedule should be seen as “average/mediocre” rather than “good”.   The super-weak teams at the bottom severely diluted the effect of playing (and losing) to four good teams.   Sadly though, this year’s OOC schedule remains one of the higher ranked ones over the last 15 years.

– Overall, the conference’s OOC schedules look really weak.   This will have a serious impact on the conference’s RPI ranking and could potentially affect any ACC bubble teams come Selection Sunday.

 

1/6 Article:

I was reviewing some old entries of mine in preparation for this mid-season ACC review when I came upon this comment:

If you play in the ACC and you get 20 wins (and 8-8 in the conference) you can pretty much rest assured that you’re getting a bid regardless of how many ‘quality’ wins.

Obviously, VT managed to prove that this “metric” isn’t worth the time it took to either type or read. Some of the early discussions that I’ve read on the forums here are just as wrong. If you want to avoid mistakes like this, then take a few moments to review all that we have documented about the Bubble and NCAA Tournament Selection.

Now let’s move forward and unveil what we know about ACC basketball as it stands today:

ACC Summary 1-6 Rev1

RANDOM OBSERVATIONS

– These numbers came from CBS Sports. Any errors in the calculations are their fault and transposition errors are mine.

– I’ve noted two different things in red….Top 50 wins which are REQUIRED to get an at-large bid and the three teams that feasted on too many cupcakes. (More on this below.)

– If you go back through the 10 years of Herb and the 5 years of Sid, this season ranks about third in strength

– There are more sophisticated ways to evaluate NCAAT status, but for today, I’m only using RPI based on the discussion that I linked above (and yes I’m feeling generous towards BC today).

– This is the first time that I have ever done an ACC snap shot and not had a bubble team (unless I put BC here). I don’t think that we can consider this “good”.

– There is a lot of basketball left to play this season and the most important games have yet to be played. However, this may be the weakest ACC since the late 1990’s. There were several years then that only 3 of 9 teams made the NCAAT. We may be looking at a similar percentage this year.

 

LOOK BOTH DIRECTIONS

If you look at the review that I did last year at this time, you would see that the bottom and middle of the ACC are considerably weaker this year. As many people have pointed out, this situation reduces the number of chances that the ACC teams have to get those quality wins needed to make the NCAAT.

If we use last year’s mid-season numbers to project forward, we see that:

– Both teams graded as “IN” last year made the NCAAT

– 3 of 5 Bubble teams made the NCAAT.

– Only 1 of 5 teams graded as “OUT” made the NCAAT.

As I said earlier, there is a lot of basketball yet to be played and most teams have their future in their own hands. However, that does not mean that the information we have today is worthless.

 

STATE’s RESULTS TO DATE

 BB Results 1-6

This schedule is substantially better than anything we’ve seen from Sidney. It would be foolish to schedule only teams expected to make the NCAAT. But it is also foolish to schedule so many teams ranked 200+. An “average” OOC schedule could have been “good” or even “great” with a little more up front planning.

Please don’t attribute this large number of bad teams to luck. If anything, history suggests that having four good teams on the schedule is luck. But at least this type of OOC schedule won’t be an embarrassment if State is in contention for an at-large NCAAT bid in March.

 

REMAINING SCHEDULE

Remaining BB Schedule

With such a weak conference this year, it seems silly to discuss whether the conference schedule is “hard” or “easy”.   Short of winning the ACC tournament, there is no way that a team with a losing conference record is getting an at-large bid. 

However, it is foolish to project that 9 or 10 conference wins would be required.   As seen last year, conference wins as a gross total can be meaningless.  Quality wins are what matter on Selection Sunday.  However, how many quality wins would be considered “sufficient” is a fluid number (based on the results around the country). But a minimum number of three Top 50 wins would at least get you into the conversation for an at-large bid. 

 

CLOSING THOUGHTS

There aren’t really any conclusions that you can draw from such preliminary data.  The purpose of the entry is simply to document where you are and how far you have left to go. Obviously State has a long way to go. In fact, State has accomplished literally nothing to date that would be seen as a positive on an NCAA resume.

 

 

WARNING:  I’m sure that the excuses will run like rain water in the comments.   But this entry is not a coaching discussion thread and it will not turn into one.

About VaWolf82

Engineer living in Central Va. and senior curmudgeon amongst SFN authors One wife, two kids, one dog, four vehicles on insurance, and four phones on cell plan...looking forward to empty nest status. Graduated 1982

10-11 Basketball ACC ACC & Other College Basketball

35 Responses to Mid-Season BB Roundup

  1. rtpack24 01/07/2011 at 11:20 AM #

    Hard to predict NCAA bids in Jan. when numerous bids aren’t settled until selection Sun. At this point ACC is definitely weak. Will have to let the season play out. I think it will be a good window to the future this Sat. Wake is having a hard time beating anyone.

  2. Classof89 01/07/2011 at 11:39 AM #

    One thing is crystal clear to me…we have three games against GaTech and Wake, tne consensus two worst teams in the league. We better go 3-0 in those games.

    Unlike 8 other ACC teams, we don’t have any “bad losses” (RPI>100)–but losing to GaT or Wake would definitely go in the bad loss category.

  3. MP 01/07/2011 at 2:03 PM #

    The only way I see us getting in is win ALL the games against the teams with lower RPIs than us (7 games) and win at least 3 of the remaining 9 games. If only 1 of those 3 is of any real ‘quality’ then add at least 2 wins in the ACCT. Gotta get at least 2 quality wins at some point.

  4. PoppaJohn 01/07/2011 at 5:39 PM #

    We are in an impossible situation. (thanks Sid)
    If we somehow make the tournament, it is going to have to be a really great conference season. Win 10 (minimum) games of the next 16???? Man, that sounds like a tall order. We barely did that during “cupcake season.” Sure the league is down, but are they worse than Delaware State, who we beat by 2? Four league teams beat Elon who had us by the short hairs in the first half.

    Here’s the the two stretches that will tell the tale …

    1/11 – @BC
    1/15 – @FSU
    1/19 – Duke

    1/29 – @UNC
    2/2 – VT
    2/5 – @Duke

    Then we still have UNC & FSU again. Plus I’m hearing some say UM may be a problem as well.

    Only six losses??? I can’t see it – but it will be a fun year if it happens.

    GO PACK!!!

  5. 61Packer 01/07/2011 at 9:50 PM #

    Someone noted that we have no “bad” losses. I assume this doesn’t count the Wisconsin game. And how many “good” wins do we have? We look terrible most of the time, and I can’t remember the last time we put together 2 good halves in the same game, even against lousy opposition.

    As far as how many ACC games we’ll win this season, it’ll be about 8. We should beat Wake and maybe Clemson twice. GT, Miami and FSU at home are beatable. And we’ll probably upset someone somewhere, but I just don’t see anything better than 9-7.

    It’s an NIT season, folks.

  6. hball57 01/08/2011 at 11:01 AM #

    The good part is that (currently) we have 9 games left against top 50 teams. Go 5-4 against them and I don’t think there is a discussion. I guess i just get frustrated with our fans giving so must credit to the other teams in the ACC. I (and the rest of the world) agree Duke is the top (and who was the last team to beat Duke?). But I think we can win any of those other 8 top 100 games. Who scares you? Miami? FSU? BC? VT?

    Also one must consider that the RPIs of the team we have beat can move as they start playing their conference schedules. I would like to evaluate the schedule at the end and see where those teams are. Not to get into the top 100 but to move out of the 200s. And someone said we had a “bad” loss to Wisconsin. most of the data the NCAA uses does not include margin of victory, so a “bad” loss only applies to whom you lose to.

    We are starting to play well. we have a full team. Today begins our NCAA quest.

  7. Wolfy__79 01/08/2011 at 11:45 AM #

    our four losses hurt, however this is the most prepared NC STATE team we’ve seen heading into ACC play!.. regardless of where every other ACC team is, we are better than we have been in previous years under Sidney Lowe 🙂

    big if, but if Sidney can settle Javi down we win 3 of 4 and get off to a great start!

  8. VaWolf82 01/08/2011 at 11:46 AM #

    I count 6 games (outside of ACCT) left against teams currently in the Top 50. Where are you getting 9?

  9. Wolfy__79 01/08/2011 at 11:54 AM #

    for whatever reason, both Sidney and our team are still developing their identity. when you have that, teams like a deleware state can give you more than you want. Sidney played Harrow alot in the first half of the season which i feel threw javi off a little bit.. javi throws himself off more than anyone else. which helped the team and Ryan but held Javi back a little bit.

    I watched the De state game in person, Javi was the reason we won. Harrow was having alot of trouble. Playing and allowing Harrow on the job training made things a little more difficult early on. but the benefit will come later in the season.

    our ooc may not be the greatest as compared to others but again i see this NC STATE team better than any we’ve seen under Lowe so far!

  10. Wolfy__79 01/08/2011 at 12:07 PM #

    well today is a WAKE up call if nothing else, they will play us just as tough as elon did… should be about the same result minus the opponents 3pt%! Tracy’s presence is key. GO PACK!

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