Mays and Smith Say Some Players on Last Year’s State Team Were Selfish

One of the oldest cliches in sports is that there is no “I” in “team.”  Like most cliches, there is a solid kernel of truth in the center, albeit one that becomes so overused the people start looking past it. According to an article on’s website this morning, there was a lot of “I” on last year’s Wolfpack men’s hoops team, something that won’t be as much of a problem on this year’s squad:

This year, Julius Mays said, “We have no individual just about themselves. When I got here, we’ve had players that have been more about themselves. They’d rather score 30 points than N.C. State win the game.

“You can’t win like that. We’ve also had players that try to turn other players against Coach to get them on their page instead of Coach’s page. You can’t win like that.”

Tracy Smith, who will be a key player inside, agreed.

“Last year and the year before that, everybody wanted to come in and play their own way,” Smith said. “I don’t think we’ll have that problem. Everybody’s on the same page.”

Let’s hope so.  State is a team that will quite often be overmatched from a physical skills standpoint, and if there are five freelancers out on the court facing that sort of competition, they will get last year’s results all over.  If this year’s vintage of Wolfpack basketball plays in usison and according to plan, they may well be a pleasant surprise – a team that wins games it is not supposed to win, and exceeds everyone’s expectation by a comfortable margin.

This topic was also launched on our message boards last Friday and can be seen by clicking.

08-09 Basketball 09-10 Basketball

90 Responses to Mays and Smith Say Some Players on Last Year’s State Team Were Selfish

  1. Wulfpack 10/21/2009 at 4:32 PM #

    It appears, for some, recruiting trumps the product on the floor or the cumulative record.

    The issue I am having is, what is your standard? If we finish 10th place, is that acceptable? Is that progress? Only because of who we have coming in?

    I’m just tired of watching other teams mop up on us. If Sid can get us in the tourney this year, that’s progress. But if we’re being passed up by all of those no name post season tourneys again, there’s a serious problem. Recruiting can’t fix that problem.

  2. Statereverend 10/21/2009 at 6:01 PM #

    It’s not that recruiting trumps the product on the floor or the cumulative record, it’s simply a logical extrapolation of the facts. The better players you bring into your system, the better chance you have to win. Therefore, if the coach keeps bringing in better players, over time, this will equate to a better product on the floor and a better cumulative record.

  3. packplantpath 10/21/2009 at 6:53 PM #

    What facts are you extrapolating from? From what we have seen out of Sid’s coaching, what makes you think he can do anything other than recruit?

    Good recruits can make a bad coach look better, but they will never overcome the fact that they are a bad coach. I don’t think we know yet that Sid is a bad coach, but a logical extrapolation of the facts would make you lean that direction. So, yes, the product on the floor will be better. But then again, better would be 8th place.

    Not quite what I’m looking for. You? If you are happy with that, thats ok, but it’s not good enough for me.

  4. theghost 10/21/2009 at 10:25 PM #

    So, to my question of why Lowe is a “bad coach,” what I’m hearing is that he hasn’t won. But my question is why? What is the cause?

    Here’s what I’m getting at – you ask me to prove that Les Robinson was a bad coach, I’ll point you to game tape of Todd Fuller being guarded by a 6’7” center while Lakista McCuller jacks off-balance 30-footers over his head – clear coaching issues. You ask me to prove that Amato is a bad coach, I’ll point you to his record without Philip Rivers. Or just his record against Akron. So, if I ask you to prove Lowe is a bad coach, it seems that everything you (collectively) point to (losing, essentially) is attributed to not having a point guard (or, do you suggest that you CAN win in the ACC without a point guard?) For the ½ season he did have a point guard, I submit he performed at least acceptably (2-1 vs duke/unc).

    Record is important, but a 3-year record by itself is pretty inadequate to judge a coach (see again Amato – or Mike Krzyzewski).

    So, one theory is Lowe is bad because he loses. The other theory is no one can win in Raleigh without a point guard. Can you show me anything that suggests the former is more valid than the latter? Just calling it an “excuse” is pretty inadequate, from an argument standpoint.

    Again, I’m asking because I don’t get to see much from where I live, so I’m trying to understand what’s going on. Just seems folks are relying too much on “we didn’t win this year, throw the bum out.” Well, Amato did win his first few years, but (hopefully) none of you were persuaded by that either.

  5. VaWolf82 10/22/2009 at 12:08 AM #

    So, to my question of why Lowe is a “bad coach,”… But my question is why?

    “Why” doesn’t matter. There are only two questions that matter:
    – Is the coach winning?
    – If not, has the coach been given enough time to show that he can build a winning program?

    It is interesting to note that no coach has been fired at State in less than about six years since Tom Reed was let go over 20 years ago. That statement has no predictive power, it’s just an observation.

  6. theghost 10/22/2009 at 12:52 AM #

    “Nothing matters but number of wins” is certainly a valid perspective, I can shoot no holes in that outlook on the situation, but it really doesn’t leave much point to a discussion board, does it? Look, I’m irrelevant, nobody has to defend his position to me. I’d just like to understand what’s really going on. I can look up the W-L record on ESPN.

  7. Wulfpack 10/22/2009 at 6:01 AM #

    We’ve all kind of been wondering what’s been going on for the past 3 years. That’s the point.

  8. kyjelly 10/22/2009 at 9:19 AM #

    It never does end . Now it is give Sid 2 more years? Than what?

  9. VaWolf82 10/22/2009 at 11:29 AM #

    It never does end . Now it is give Sid 2 more years? Then what?

    Pick and choose as appropriate:

    – They are only freshmen and sophomores.
    – But ____ just didn’t work out as expected.
    – ______ got hurt and couldn’t help.
    – ______ left early and we need time to replace him.
    – ______ is coming next year!!!!!!

  10. frankiepack 10/22/2009 at 12:56 PM #

    ^Excellent and what is really great take a look back to Sid’s last couple of years and we all heard the same weak ass stuff.
    Phantom prospects,up tempo,bad attitude this year ,great attitude this year ,things are different, blah,blah ,blah

  11. theghost 10/22/2009 at 10:35 PM #

    The glib responses really don’t help me much. What I’m asking for is a rationale. Certainly there’s someone on here who 1) thinks Lowe is a bad coach, and 2) understands basketball enough to articulate the position – not just the standard “I’ve seen it all before” diatribe.

  12. bradleyb123 10/23/2009 at 4:55 PM #

    packplantpath, I believe you’ll be eating all those words soon. Better have a good appetite. 🙂

    Some of you mistake my posts in support of Sidney as some kind of love for the man. I’m not making the case that he is or can be a winning coach. I make the case for keeping Sid for two reasons: (1) Unless the situation is utterly ridiculous, you give a new coach a MINIMUM of four years to show improvement. Sid’s situation is bad, but not utterly ridiculous. I think even Les Robinson got about five years, didn’t he? (2) Sid is flat out recruiting like a BEAST now. I don’t care if Sid is the next coming of Les Robinson, I want to keep these 2010 recruits. Period. We have two 5-star recruits, and a 4-star. And if Sid shocks the world and pulls in CJ Leslie, we’re looking at another fab-five (well, fab-FOUR) situation.

    I think even Sid can’t go wrong with players like that.

    But if we need to get rid of Sid after the 2010-11 season, so be it. Do it THEN. At least we’ll have an awesome group of players for the next guy that can actually coach them. It would make the NC State head basketball coaching position that much more appealing. It wouldn’t be a total rebuilding job.

    I’m not excusing Sid. I just want to keep the players he’s bringing in (and HIM, if he does well with them). I’m all for giving Sid just these two years. If we’re not something special, as in contending for tops in the conference, or making a splash nationally, and it’s obvious that Sid is the reason why we’re not, then he needs to go. Then. But not a minute sooner. The man deserves his chance, and I think 5-6 years is not too much to ask.

  13. Stateman 10/23/2009 at 5:54 PM #

    If you get rid of Sid, you can gaurantee that you’ll have multiple transfers. Harrow, Brown, Cothron, and Painter would more than likely transfer. Every single one of them, when asked why did you choose NC State, answered Sidney Lowe.

    You won’t have anything for the next coach to coach.

  14. VaWolf82 10/23/2009 at 9:14 PM #

    But if we need to get rid of Sid after the 2010-11 season, so be it. Do it THEN. At least we’ll have an awesome group of players for the next guy that can actually coach them.

    You have absolutely no idea who will be on the team after the 2010-2011 season. Thus your entire line of “reasoning” has more holes than State’s secondary.

  15. bradleyb123 10/28/2009 at 5:56 PM #

    I know who certainly WON’T be here if we lose Sidney. And that is my ONLY point in this. Losing Sidney at any time before the next two seasons are over will be a HUGE mistake. I can’t believe you can’t see that. But I give up. Think what you want. You’re so blinded by your anti-Sidney bias that you can’t even see how we’d benefit by keeping him this year and next — EVEN IF HE’S A BAD COACH.

    If you get your way, and we fire Sidney after another dismal season this year, we most likely lose several transfers AND the currently-4th-ranked recruiting class for 2010. Then what do we have? Probably another lame coach, unless you think our history of hiring unproven coaches is going to change, and NO good players. We’re looking at several more years of rebuilding and hoping and praying. At least with Sidney, we have a hope and a prayer that the worst years are behind him. And if they’re not, he leaves behind a stocked team. Unless most of them transfer, but after being here a year or two, they’ll have grown roots and will probably stay. When Herb left, we didn’t have a grand exodus. But we did lose his recruits, except for Horner I think.

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