Katz: “NC State Working Back To Good Times”

Sometimes, it’s said, it is hard to see the forest for the trees.  That might be the case for NC State’s fans where its hoops program is concerned, at least in the eyes of ESPN college hoops scribe Andy Katz.  According to him, the Wolfpack is working their way back to respectability, albeit with a very young team.  Judging by the average fan’s expectations for the upcoming year, it’s fair to say that Pack fans may see things another way.

Let’s hope Katz is right.  At times last year, when the Wolfpack was not overmatched by teams with far greater skill, it looked lifeless and dispassionate.  Without pointing fingers or naming names, some of the players that left that impression are now out of the program, and Lowe is assembling a team wholly in his image and his recruiting ability.  Only one player, Dennis Horner, is a holdover from the Herb Sendek years, and Horner was only initially recruited by Sendek – he never played for the coach before he left for Arizona State.  For this season, Lowe has assembled some interesting pieces, but still lacks the one thing that will complete his squad: a go-to point guard that is the team’s knife to slice through an opponent’s butter.  Katz talks about that when he says

The anticipation is that they have found their backcourt of Lowe and Whittenburg — in the class of 2010, ranked at No. 12 by ESPNU with the expected arrival of Lorenzo Brown (Hargrave Military Academy/Roswell, Ga.) and Ryan Harrow (Walton HS/Marietta, Ga.). Brown could have gone to NC State this season but needed a fifth year of high school. Since neither player is signed yet, the staff can’t talk about them individually. But they said the future is “bright,” as both Lowe and Towe smiled and chuckled with delight.

And so, in year four, the Wolfpack will be younger and less experienced.

“I don’t know if we have a ‘pro’ right now, but we definitely have guys who can play,” Lowe said.

In short, 2009-20010 will be a year of change for the Wolfpack, and one that could, for once, represent a positive beginning instead of more of the same.  Wolfpack fans are impatient for their team to actually matter in the large scope of ACC basketball.  Old timers remember when the Pack was a feared team to play anywhere, especially at home.  Young fans just want to see a team that is consistently decent.  While much is made of State’s fans being envious of UNC and Duke, and to a degree there’s some truth to that, the bottom line is that State’s fans don’t want another year of loss after loss to not only Duke and Carolina, but also to the Virginia Tech,  Clemson and Miami.  With all due respect to those teams and their fans, State’s fans look at the rich heritage of the Wolfpack in college hoops history and want a return to vitality for the program that somewhat matches the history through the years.  Then — they can worry about maybe catching Carolina and Duke.

Katz’ article makes for an interesting read and one that has a different perspective than a naturally pessimistic NC State fan might have.  That pessismism – given the past five years – is well justified, and on paper, NC State hardly looks like world beaters coming in to 2009/10.  Katz sees a team that may be getting ready to do good things, and maybe that will be the pleasant surprise in the world of hoops this year.  For long-suffering State fans, that would be welcome relief from the unrequited  love they’ve given their teams through tough times.

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49 Responses to Katz: “NC State Working Back To Good Times”

  1. Thinkpack17 10/16/2009 at 3:50 PM #

    I’ve never seen Ben McCauley dog it. I’ve heard people say that he lacked effort, call me crazy but I never saw that. I see making the case about us being better off without Costner or Fells…maybe. But I would never include Big Ben in that argument. No way we are better off without him.

    I would never include Big Ben in the list of names I left un-named. –Alpha

  2. pack44fan 10/16/2009 at 3:57 PM #

    State Reverend, you have your opinion and I have mine…..and you know what they say about opionions. No matter what, I think we all want the pack to succeed.

  3. Statereverend 10/16/2009 at 3:57 PM #

    LMAO at Rick Barnes… have you lost your mind? On what grounds do you make that statement outside of your own crazy brain.

  4. zahadum 10/16/2009 at 4:16 PM #

    Small quibble, we didn’t lose our top 3 assist guys, just #2 and #3. Javi was #1 and Farnold #4.

  5. packplantpath 10/16/2009 at 4:28 PM #

    Reverend,

    I suggest you read this:

    http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2008/03/19/fowlers-failures-manifests-into-a-pearl-of-a-jewel/

    You are equating our failure to get a good coach with no good coaches being interested. Tautology much?

  6. packof81 10/16/2009 at 4:40 PM #

    This season, we’ll start with a cleaner slate. Hopefully, there won’t be any more bad attitudes like we’ve seen and the players will hunker down and play like a team. If that happens, some of the losses we’ve seen the last couple years may become wins. I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

  7. mafpack 10/16/2009 at 4:45 PM #

    I think what the good reverend probably meant was ‘Name one person who actually wanted the job *when it was offered to Sidney Lowe* who could turn the program around in less than 6 years?’

    Not saying that I agree, just noting that semantics often fowl the point of a discussion.

    Besides, this way lets me blame Fowler.

  8. BJD95 10/16/2009 at 5:13 PM #

    Don’t know how many times we need to say this, but Barnes DID want to come and WOULD have come had we played our cards right. Granted, we did not know this in real time, but I’ve heard enough details from enough people in position to know to present this as fact. Not opinion.

    Even beyond that, to say that “nobody else” wanted the job is completely unwarranted. It’s Lee Fowler’s dumbass fault that he didn’t have a “B list” and went straight to plucking names out of a hat (because he had to get a “name” you see).

    Oliver Purnell really wanted our job, for one. I almost wept when I learned that.

    And no, 6 year contract does not mean “6 years to show any progress”. First, every fired coach at this level has AT LEAST 2 years left on his contract. Otherwise, there’s absolutely no way to recruit in the “put up or shut up” years – and why give a guy the chance to “put up” if the talent well runs dry right after doing so?

    Second, NOBODY gets beyond Year Four without having to show SOMETHING on the court. The journey doesn’t have to be over yet, but you can’t be stuck in absolute suckdom. You wouldn’t get away with that at a basketball graveyard like Orgeon State or Rutgers.

    A competent AD would have no problem getting good candidates to want our job. And NONE of them would feel trepidation about Lowe “only” getting 4 years.

    Yeah, Reverend is right about Harrow. He won’t come here without Lowe. Like all of the Atlanta guys we’ve brought in, they come via “special” connection that has NOTHING to do with NC State. And they have every incentive to let folks know that their loyalty is solely to Lowe, as part of the larger blackmail plan to keep Lowe on the payroll (with no expectations) for as long as humanly possible. I told you it was going to happen several months ago. Some folks criticized my pre-emptive strike, but it”s pretty damned clear that I was right, yes?

  9. rdjennin 10/16/2009 at 5:30 PM #

    As long as we keep recruiting, if Sid recruits top 10 and 15 classes every year. We will get and be good. Basketball is about recruiting. All you need is a couple of excellent players and some decent players.

  10. packalum44 10/16/2009 at 5:37 PM #

    BJD:

    Yes you were right. I for one never doubted you. Unless God lifts his curse upon NC State Lowe will be around at LEAST 2 more years. Realistically, I’ve prepared myself for Groundhog Day. 10 years total is my best guess.

  11. bradleyb123 10/16/2009 at 6:31 PM #

    ^^^ “I recognize the point you’re trying to make, but when does the “You have to give him the chance to get [insert recruit here]” ever end? There will ALWAYS be another recruit to insert into that argument.”

    Yes, but how long has it been since we had so many quality recruits in, and even better ones coming in next year? For Sid to get THIS close to having great players and great depth… to risk blowing that by dumping Sid would just be ludicrous. And I say that because I know how we do things here at State. If we were bringing in the next Roy Williams, then MAYBE. Because maybe such a great coach could keep the recruits from going elsewhere. But we don’t do that at State. We bring in the cheapest guy we can find and hope for the best. If we do that, and lose the recruits, I think we’re in a WORSE boat than if we had just kept Sid.

    I say we keep Sid, get the great 2010 class in here, and see what happens. But something pretty awesome needs to happen in 2010-11, though. I’m only giving Sid a pass in 2009-10. After that, we better get some wins, and I mean a lot. If we don’t, THEN we think about bringing in a replacement for Sid.

    I’ve heard it suggested that no big name guys wanted to come here because it was such a huge rebuilding job. At the end of 2010-11, if we’re as stacked as we’re projected to be, it may be that much easier to bring in a big name guy. He wouldn’t have as much work to do.

    But to dump Sid now, I just can’t imagine doing that with what we have combined with what we have coming in next year. WHY risk that?

  12. PoppaJohn 10/16/2009 at 6:51 PM #

    Wow, I think this is generally the most positive thread I’ve seen about Wolfpack hoops in a while. Yes, there are negative comments (stated intelligently) and some disagreement. But there are notes of hope and even people voting to retain Sid. (am I on AFV??)
    Everyone hold tight to those good thoughts, because it’s going to get ugly this year. No doubt about it.
    What I want to see is defense. Defense is all about coaching, hard work and discipline. If I see that, I’ll see some evidence that this coaching staff knows what they are doing and feel there is hope for the future. But if the coaches are inept, there is no reason for optimism.

    In my opinion, this is the year we find out if he can coach. No more excuses. And if he can’t … we’ve got to move on. Because he won’t be able to realize the potential of those supposed high quality recruits.

  13. bradleyb123 10/16/2009 at 7:31 PM #

    I do think Sid deserves a chance to coach these kids. I also have my doubts about him being here too much longer. I really hope Sid shows he can coach so we can keep him and get back on track, because we’re getting the kind of players that can get us there.

    Another big reason for me wanting to give Sid these next two years is that nothing in our history gives me hope that we’d bring in a TOP NOTCH coach to replace him. If I’m right about that, and we took in another unproven guy just hoping for the best, we’d be in the same or worse boat than we are with Sid. Only we’d probably also lose our 4th-ranked recruiting class for 2010, as well. It would most likely be another huge setback to our program. But MAYBE (just maybe), Sid and these kids can get it done.

    At least if we end up replacing Sid after 2010-11, the next guy would have some pretty great players to work with from day one (assuming they didn’t transfer somewhere else). That could help us bring in a better coach. I’ve heard after we let Herb leave, not many people wanted the kind of rebuilding job that would be expected of them.

  14. ChiefJoJo 10/16/2009 at 8:52 PM #

    I gotta think that, barring an NCAA berth, to some degree Sid’s fate is going to be tied to football, and our new Chancellor. If we don’t turn the football team around this season for at least a bowl game, the fans will turn on Fowler and then the guy who hired Sid will be out.

    The fact that several recruits are planning to wait until the spring to sign is a big indication that Sid has some major work to do this season. I hope he is successful.

  15. 61Packer 10/16/2009 at 10:28 PM #

    Lack of a good point guard is NOT the real problem with NC State basketball right now. The real problem is the lack of a good coach.

    It ain’t complicated, folks.

  16. ncsu05mit10 10/16/2009 at 10:36 PM #

    I don’t see how dwelling on Fowler’s botched search gets us anywhere. Sid was a consultant for the search committee, so he knows first hand how bad it went. He knows he was choice #5. He probably really wanted NCSU to hire Rick Barnes too. But can you blame the guy for taking the job when offered? Lowe might have passed if he thought Fowler 6th choice would be worth a damn. We can play hypotheticals all night long.

    IF there were all these great coaches that wanted the job, why would we want Lowe gone now just to have Fowler go through that process and screw it up again? Plus, I think you need a skilled Chancellor AND AD to bring in a great hire, not just a donor with a ton of money. Otherwise Oklahoma State would be a powerhouse.

    Despite my feelings about Fowler and the hire, I want Lowe to succeed. What other choice do you have?

  17. KChill 10/16/2009 at 10:53 PM #

    Pretty funny stuff from BJD. Now all of a sudden Oliver Purnell is a coach to covet when about 3 years ago, some wanted to run him out of town. He’s been to how many Sweet Sixteens, BTW (the answer is zero)? How soon we forget.

  18. gotohe11carolina 10/16/2009 at 10:54 PM #

    take my advice guys, lets just forget about all this basketball football nonsense and focus on our strengths, we’re really killing it in non revenue sports, look at our bass fishing team! (said in best Tenn. drawl)

    seriously though, i’m looking forward to basketball, good luck this season and go wolfpack…

  19. bernardgoodie 10/16/2009 at 11:00 PM #

    For all you Herb Sendek worshippers and Sidney Lowe doubters, to include the memory lapsed media, take a look at Sendeks year by year record at NC State. You will see that in 10 seasons, he never managed to have single digits in the loss column. As a matter of fact, until last year, it had been 13 years since he managed such a feat. In his 5th season at NCSU, he went 13-16, yet he was given several more years to turn it around. Also, ask yourself why NO ONE from his last recruiting class follwed him to Arizona State like many of Calipari’s recent recruits did. Also, if so many other programs were impressed with him, then why did he end up at a program with less basketball history after leaving NCSU. Finally, lets not even talk about his record against UNC or Duke, we’ll make our point complaining about his record against Wake Forest, Maryland, and Virginia. Face it, he never recruited the talent level Sidney Lowe has been able to recruit thus far,and was given far more wiggle room in his early years at NCSU.

  20. Alpha Wolf 10/17/2009 at 5:59 AM #

    Please don’t turn this thread into a Herb Sendek debate. I respect the opinions, but a long time ago, we as State fans passed the point where all that can be said has been said…three times, at least. Katz focused on the present and future in his article, let’s do the same. Thanks!

  21. rtpack24 10/17/2009 at 8:47 AM #

    We have to be better defensively because last year we were the worst team in the league on defense. Rick Barnes did want the job and yes Fowler blew it. Talked to Rick Barnes a couple of weeks ago and he said how much he and his wife miss NC. All this does not matter because Sid is our coach. Hopefully this year he shows that he is building a program. Unfortunately, he has not so far.

  22. StateFans 10/17/2009 at 10:28 AM #

    Nice comments, Alpha. Thanks for linking this.

  23. bernardgoodie 10/17/2009 at 12:06 PM #

    I get that this is not a Sendek debate, and the point was not to show him up. I actually think he is a fine coach. However, I do want to point out that many fans are ready to pull the trigger on Sid a few years early based on the time given to Herb to get the program to respectability. I based my comments purely off of facts. The fact is clear that Coach Lowe is being considered a failure thus far based on a comparison to Coach Sendek’s performance. However, their win-loss records are almost identical for the first three seasons at NCSU (53-44 vs 51-46). In two years, if the program is still showing no life, I’ll be the first to jump on the “Get rid of Sid” train. But we all have to admit, so far he has shown he can recruit unlike any coach we have had in a very long time. I can’t see the program staying in the cellar with quality talent finally coming back.

  24. bradleyb123 10/23/2009 at 5:15 PM #

    ^^^ “The fact that several recruits are planning to wait until the spring to sign is a big indication that Sid has some major work to do this season. I hope he is successful.”

    Which ones? Harrow is signing on November 11, and I thought Lorenzo Brown is expected to also sign soon. I don’t know either way about Cothron.

    Or were you talking about football?

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