BBall: 2008 One-and-Doners and more

An awesome analysis of 2008’s One-And-Doners can be seen by clicking here to one of the best college basketball blogs in the country.

I can’t copy and paste their comments, but they have some interesting things to say about NC State and how JJ Hickson was definitely ‘not worth it’. It really is an interesting piece.

You can surf to “Rush the Court” and a host of other blogs and resources by spending some time looking at our blogroll on the right hand side of our front page.

In other news, the announcement that former NC State assistant and overall great guy, John Groce, has been named the head basketball coach at Ohio slipped past my radar. You may remember that former NC State assistant, Larry Hunter, was the coach at Ohio in the 1990s.

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07-08 Basketball Alums

47 Responses to BBall: 2008 One-and-Doners and more

  1. choppack1 07/03/2008 at 10:15 AM #

    LRM – I see where you are coming from. That quote is a little alarming. However, we have to see how this manifests itself.

    We have to remember that Sid’s recruits showed good effort.

    I think the larger concern I have for the quote in question is if you get 3 blue chippers – who gets the offense run through them? It was easy to run the offense through JJ. But if by some miracle we end up w/ the dream recruiting class of Wall, Favors and Brown – who gets the offense run through them? Do we relegate Tracy Smith to setting picks and second chance points? Does Mays just hang out by the 3 point line waiting for the occasional kick out?

    This will be a good problem to have though. I mean, if Sid can sign these kids and we still see poor effort and execution, we’ll know that the situation is hopeless. It’s the kind of clarity we haven’t had since Amato’s team fell flat on its face vs. UNC and ECU or MOC’s 6-4 team lost to a UNC team playing their backup FB as QB.

  2. BJD95 07/03/2008 at 10:28 AM #

    ^ Yes, there’s something to be said for certainty, even if it’s in a bad way. God help us if we have to go through another “limbo” period.

  3. Dr. BadgerPack 07/03/2008 at 10:37 AM #

    If Sid is recruiting multiple stars, I doubt he will tell all 3 “hey, I’ll run the offense through you.” I take the quote for what it seems to be worth- Sidney made a promise during recruiting, and kept that promise.

  4. redfred2 07/03/2008 at 11:42 AM #

    OK, so it sounds like some people would be more comfortable to continue recruiting borderline talent, instead of worrying about how to handle a roster with definite talent.

    Sorry, but that is about as negative as it gets. Lowe is showing the ability to get these kid’s attention, now what he really needs to do is to develop the type of BB PROGRAM that makes those kids want to come to NC State, for NC State, and so a few might possibly stick around. The encouraging thing is that Sidney Lowe already has an example of what needs to be done because of his earlier days in that same type of program under Morgan Wooten, at DeMatha.

  5. WolftownVA81 07/03/2008 at 11:45 AM #

    I say worth it. The fact that we weren’t able to capitalize on JJ’s strenghts as a team was not his fault. And leaving early, he’s just using the system that is in place. Until the NCAA and the NBA can come up with a better system, this is what we’ll have.

  6. choppack1 07/03/2008 at 12:23 PM #

    Oh, it’s definitely worth it, if a) the talent is secured w/in the rules, b) the talent doesn’t embarrass the University c) the talent buys into the team concept d)the talent stays long enough to make a difference.

    I’m not worried that we are recruiting talent. I’m worried that we would be considered if the coach was promising to make multiple players the “focus” of the offense. I’m also worried we may be recruiting the kind of talent that views NC State the way I viewed hubs when I flew US Air: I’m stopping there because I have to to get where I’m going. The only benefits being the tall beers and the extra FF segments and miles.

  7. haze 07/03/2008 at 1:24 PM #

    Given his talent and the situation that Hickson was being recruited into (i.e. the 06-07 Pack that was picked to finish 12th), I don’t think that Lowe was giving away freebies by talking about working his O through JJ. At the time, nearly everyone thought that we’d be HORRIBLE (proved true for much of that year). Name a coach that wouldn’t say something similar while visiting a McD-level C/PF and having nothing to point but an apparently terrible team with no post presence.

    Who knew that we wouldn’t hit bottom (shovel in hand) until the big guy was actually on the team?

    Still weirds me out.

    As for one-&-dones, I don’t like the idea much but it is a necessary evil. I want them in class and I want them to be character kids that won’t embarrass themselves or the university. However, you will not win without one-&-done level talent. Duke can’t do it. UNC can’t do it. Kansas can’t do it. As importantly, it seems to need a kid or two to get the press and enough wins to get more such kids, more press and more wins, and so on and so on.

    The more I think about it… the more I like football.

  8. choppack1 07/03/2008 at 2:09 PM #

    “However, you will not win without one-&-done level talent.”

    That’s an interesting statement. Did the last 4 national champs have any one and doners in the starting 5?

    I agree w/ you that you need talent. But I’d say that it’s truer statement that you can’t win if you are relying on a player who is eventually 1 and done. Syracuse is the only school that I can think of whose key player was a 1 and done…but I think that was before the rule was implemented.

    Both Ohio State and Memphis came real close w/ their one and dones, but they didn’t close the deal. However, I think you are more likely to win it if you have talented sophomores, juniors and seniors than you are to win it w/ talented freshmen.

  9. Ed89 07/03/2008 at 3:05 PM #

    ^^^Speaking of Wood, I see him being our “Oglysbey” (or whatever the name of the white kid on clemsons team that shot 42% from the 3 despite taking ridiculous shots)… a kid who spreads the floor on the offensive end and doesn’t do much else besides hit 3’s for 5-10 minutes a game his first 2 years.

    I think you may be “pre-judging” Wood a bit. I’ve heard he can put in on the floor and actually shoots well off the dribble, coming off screens. More like that Ruoff kid from West Virginia who can “light it up” from all over the court. Plus, he’s 6-6 vs. Oglesby at 5-11.

  10. redfred2 07/03/2008 at 3:33 PM #

    “I’m also worried we may be recruiting the kind of talent that views NC State the way I viewed hubs when I flew US Air: I’m stopping there because I have to to get where I’m going. The only benefits being the tall beers and the extra FF segments and miles.”

    And that would be different from unc and Duke, how? These kids have one thing in mind, getting to the NBA, and they go to PROGRAMS that are known for getting them noticed.

    Call it the cart coming before the horse or whatever, but it’s fine with me, and I’d definitely consider it plus if a coach can bring in the blue chip athletes at the very beginning, instead of having to wait until he has struggled for years to make the BB program relevant again.

  11. redfred2 07/03/2008 at 3:58 PM #

    If Sidney Lowe needs more time just to get his feet under him and figure his way through this thing, then personally, I’d like to see him be able to do it with the help of some really great BB players. It can’t help but speed the process, in either direction, of determining if Coach Lowe really has what it takes.

    I know we all have to search the backs or our minds and come with every worst case senarios that we can think of, we’re NC STATE fans, its second nature. But these kids still showing interest after the events of last season, is nothing but G R E A T news for the program, and THE Coach.

  12. choppack1 07/03/2008 at 4:06 PM #

    redfred -it’s like this. If you’re blue chips stay one year and leave, historically, you aren’t as successful. Remember, almost every player in the rotation at UNC and Duke are McDer’s.

    As for the kids themselves, Lawson was likely to be 1 and done, but no one thought Hansboro was, Ellington didn’t exactly fit that category either. However, if you are recruiting a kid who everyone knows would have gone pro if the option was/is available – JJ Hickson, Wall, and apparently Favors – I don’t think you build a strong program doing that.

    If you can get to the point where you don’t really need these guys – you can afford to bring in “the mercenary”. UNC and Duke can bring in these guys. Memphis was strong this year because they also had several other kids w/ experience. OSU last year had 2 great frosh, but a solid surrounding class. And of course, this year, they missed the tourney all together.

    I guess what I’m saying is I don’t won’t be GaTech. Every year signing a great class, but every year almost needing to sign a great class due to their departures.

  13. redfred2 07/03/2008 at 4:24 PM #

    Chop, there is also something to be said for being the big fish in a small pond, and looking great when there is no one else around to give you a true evaluation of your own skillset. JJ Hickson was ‘the focus’ of the team last season, and to be honest there was no one else in a Wolfpack uniform who came close to matching his game. Other teams did shut him down, but it really wasn’t very hard to do with the of lack a supporting cast around him.

    In Raleigh, JJ Hickson was surrounded by people who hadn’t seen a legit NBA prospect in decades, they told him he was great, and maybe he is, but you place a JJ Hickson on the court with some comparably skilled teammates and maybe he doesn’t stand out so much. Maybe he doesn’t get all of the attention and maybe someone else sneaks in there steals his thunder instead. Maybe then he re-thinks, and decides he should stay a little longer and really make sure he’s ready for another level.

    That’s all nothing new, it’s been happening for years just next door.

  14. redfred2 07/03/2008 at 4:51 PM #

    There is a problem with all of this right now though, it’s the tail wagging the dog syndrome. But that is what it is…for now anyway. When Sidney Lowe has had time to really get his act together then he will be the one who is demanding this and that from those same highly regarded kids/BB players, instead of the reverse. Sidney Lowe is well aware of why this is happening. Now, he just needs to take advantage of his good fortune and build upon it while figuring out how to perpetuate it.

  15. redfred2 07/03/2008 at 4:56 PM #

    Sorry everybody, I’ve got a big weekend planned, lots of opinions, and little time. I’ll give it a rest shortly.

  16. redfred2 07/03/2008 at 6:00 PM #

    “If you can get to the point where you don’t really need these guys…”

    That’s what I was talking about earlier, that’s A BB PROGRAM. That’s where players stick around, because there is something to at that university to stay for, besides just a step ladder to the NBA.

    One and dones are the way of college basketball for now, I’d take all I could get, and keep taking them in hopes that they wise up and change the rules. I have no problem with a 3 star, potential bloomer, seeing that a few top ten’s signed with NC State and checking into it further. That can’t do anything but help the cause.

  17. redfred2 07/03/2008 at 6:04 PM #

    Hell, it’s great that Sidney Lowe is able promote interest in the NC State BB program for part of the year anyway. Now, if he can just do the same during the regular season.

  18. rockpile 07/03/2008 at 9:05 PM #

    let’s just close the deal on lorenzo brown, let tracy smith grow, and bring in cj leslie(anything else is gravy). yes, last year raised red flags and was disconcerting. but whether you think lowe can coach or not(i happen to think he can), most will agree he’s a smart guy and he’s passionate about his position here. i believe we’ve bottomed out, let’s go from here….i’d rather be where we are now, than the feeling i had after sendek’s fifth yr(or even fourth). not that that’s saying a whole lot…

  19. buttPACKer 07/04/2008 at 2:13 PM #

    From the first game last season, I thought Hickson was actually a major problem, despite his abilities!!

    We would likely have had a significantly better season had he never come to Raleigh. . .

    Well, that’s my opinion.

  20. redfred2 07/05/2008 at 11:18 AM #

    “would likely have had a significantly better season”

    And that would have been, AT BEST, a struggling, possible bubble team, or NIT invite, with everyone knowing full well that NC State didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of competing for either title.

    No thanks, been there.

  21. b 07/06/2008 at 9:39 AM #

    How exactly would our team have been better with 14 points and 8 rebounds LESS a game?

  22. redfred2 07/08/2008 at 7:58 PM #

    ^b, surely somebody would have picked up the slack inside, no wait, not on the inside. But someone would have definitely made up for it on the outside, no wait, that wouldn’t have happened either.

    Well, it just would have, damnit.

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