Tudor: Gonzalez makes a good showing

07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball86

But there was a winner on the opposite team, too. It was beleaguered Wolfpack point guard Javier Gonzalez, a freshman with such a maligned background that he spent part of Thursday afternoon begging for a reprieve in State coach Sidney Lowe’s office.So bad was Gonzalez’s performance in the Wolfpack’s 72-62 home loss to Florida State on Wednesday that he felt his role as a regular in the lineup was in jeopardy.

“I wanted Coach to know that I could still help this team,” Gonzalez said. “I just went to him, and asked him not to give up on me. I’m capable of being better. I didn’t want him to lose confidence in me.”

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07-08 Basketball NCS Basketball

86 Responses to Tudor: Gonzalez makes a good showing

  1. PackGirl 03/02/2008 at 5:39 PM #

    It’s possbile Javi did tell some of his team mates but asked them not to tell the coaches. What would be the point of telling them anyway – so they wouldn’t play you? Or would feel sorry for you? I wouldn’t read too much into it – the chemistry appeared to be very good yesterday.

  2. Noah 03/02/2008 at 5:44 PM #

    “Not to be a jerk, and he does have money, but isn’t Cedric Simmons kind of “exposed” right now?”

    This is the insanity of the NBA’s system!! It actually encourages players to get exposed AFTER they’ve been drafted and gotten big paychecks.

    Had Simmons stayed, there’s a very strong likelihood that scouts would have recognized that he didn’t have the skills necessary to play power forward and was unlikely to develop them. I think everyone knew he was too small to play center.

    The NBA players association blocked the implementation of the age limit of 21 for underclassmen to go pro. They didn’t want rookies taking a vets job. So they turned the draft into a complete crap shoot.

    Look at how valuable a single draft pick (ANY draft pick) is in the NFL. Kris Jenkins is a pro bowl DT right now. The Panthers couldn’t get more than a third and a fifth round pick for him. Troy Williamson was a top-15 pick a couple of years ago and he got traded for a sixth. Marcus Stroud went for a third and fifth and I think Shaun Rogers went for a second and a fifth.

    Third round picks usually make the team. But there’s something like a sixty percent chance that a third round pick will actually play meaningful minutes for his team. For a fifth round pick, it’s like a 10 percent chance.

    But that’s the NFL. They scout well enough and the draft is deep enough that draft picks are incredibly valuable.

    In the NBA, non-lottery draft picks are essentially valueless. It’s not that you can’t get a good player at the end of the draft, it’s just that the likelihood of success can’t be accurately predicted. They aren’t worthless, they’re just unable to be valued.

  3. Noah 03/02/2008 at 5:51 PM #

    BTW, Cedric Simmons is a very bad example to use of why someone should or should not go pro. His family’s situation, thankfully, was unique.

    Saying he should have stayed in college is like saying that Chinese people shouldn’t cram themselves into a cargo container when they know that a 1/4 of them are going to die en route and go to New York to work for slave wages in a sweatshop for the rest of their lives.

  4. Rochester 03/02/2008 at 6:28 PM #

    Cargo container = massively daytight compartment

  5. legacyman 03/02/2008 at 7:21 PM #

    Javi popped paulus in the face with the ball when paulus was placing his face into Javi’s. Javi also gave a few clear out elbow turns later in the game and paulus or the other guard gave Javi some room…good for the little guy…he certainly has guts. By the way, Javi has had some training as a boxer.

    I was impressed by Javi’s ball handling against dook but I had been critical earlier in the season. It is too bad that Javi had to be thrown into the mix before he was ready but he has learned under fire.

    I believe Marques will end up at the #2 slot next year if we get some more PG help.

    For the poster who complained about the attendance at the dook game, it certainly didn’t sound 3/4 full, and it was far more than that, as we controlled the game until the last 7 or 8 minutes. Our fans were great and the team seemed to relish the noise and support.

  6. Afterglow 03/02/2008 at 7:34 PM #

    There’s a chance JJ won’t even be picked in the first round. It seems a bit risky to me. At best he will be a projected late first round pick which may mean he would end up getting picked up in the second round. It’s a mistake if he chooses to go this year. He needs another year of development. Let’s say that experts are projecting him as a late first round pick (which I don’t even know if they are). He decides to take a chance because “Let’s see I can get paid a million dollars but may end up playing in the development league, or I can stay in college and continue to develop my game hoping I might improve and get paid 2 million dollars next year. Yep that’s a tough choice.” And he goes for it and ends up going as an early second round pick. That’s smart money!

  7. redfred2 03/02/2008 at 8:40 PM #

    Call me a sap, but I still believe that it’s not all about the money to at least some of these kids, in some cases anyway. They want the money, we all do, but if not rushing to a foregone conclusion when staying put for one or two seasons may benefit their overall future and careers, which is absolutely the case more than people willing admit these days, then why the big hurry? Again, I’m a sap, but I believe that some of these kids want more than money out of a BB career. Some of them actually want to live out a dream, and do it on the BB court.

    I believe that many of these players would benefit later in their careers from backing off when the FIRST dollar signs start cropping up all over the place, spending more time in the “minors”, developing the skills that are a definite necessity, before they even consider BEGINNING an NBA career.

    It’s kinda like someone saying, Hey, that kid is a good driver, so let’s strap him into a F15 fighter jet and see what he can do. He can learn how to fly later.” But at that point it’s do or die, he can’t ever go back and come up through the ranks, starting out in a single engine prop plane like everyone else does. He either flys the F15, or he crashes and burns, there is no going back in BB.

    Oh yeah, I forgot, but with what’s left of his original signing money still in hand.

  8. Afterglow 03/02/2008 at 8:59 PM #

    redfred2-I believe I’m in the same boat as you so I too am sap. I was basing my last argument off of what werncstate was saying-that even if it did come down to money, it still wouldn’t be a good decision. I’m all about him bettering his game and staying as long as he needs to. I’m also all about letting go if it’s in the best of his interest or if he’s just ready to go. I don’t believe he’s ready to go (especially in a draft glut with power forwards). I personally take it from the stand point of, can he become the best he can become by staying another year in college.

    Hell, some may even say there’s something to a college education but that would be just downright sappy.

  9. redfred2 03/02/2008 at 9:02 PM #

    LOL! Rochester

  10. Noah 03/02/2008 at 9:11 PM #

    “Call me a sap, but I still believe that it’s not all about the money to at least some of these kids, in some cases anyway. ”

    Well, of course. There’s always going to be a guy like Tim Duncan who stays longer than he has to. Who said otherwise?

  11. turfpack 03/02/2008 at 9:21 PM #

    Javi is not going to take any crap from anyone in this conference-with his gained experience this year(ask Paulas)Having a boxing background doesn’t hurt.I can see Javi’s toughness that Lowe saw when recruiting him.I think Javi is now a true ACC guard-needs to keep working on his skills-but having balls not to backdown is a skill I wish more players had.

  12. redfred2 03/02/2008 at 9:45 PM #

    Come on Afterglow, BB players going to college, for an education, now that is a down right foolish thought. 😉

  13. Afterglow 03/02/2008 at 9:51 PM #

    I think Javi is still going to experience some growing pains. Granted, he played well on Saturday but this goes back to living in the here and the now and refusing to look at the big picture. To say that he is a “true ACC guard” is pushing it a little. I believe that one day he will be a serviceable guard in the ACC; steady, like Atsur with maybe a little more zeal. He still has a lot of things to work on: shooting, defense and over all game smarts-especially end of close game smarts. It was a great performance celebrate it for what it was, a great performance. Yes, he has been a breath of fresh air. Yes, he will inevitably make mistakes. Only time will tell if on Saturday, he arrived. Regardless, give it time.

  14. Afterglow 03/02/2008 at 9:58 PM #

    Give a man a fish; he’ll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he’ll tell you he’s amphibious.

  15. Afterglow 03/02/2008 at 10:08 PM #

    In fairness, perhaps I was being a bit myopic to your comments for Javi, turfpack. In terms of toughness, I agree, the guys got it!

  16. Noah 03/02/2008 at 10:10 PM #

    “Come on Afterglow, BB players going to college, for an education, now that is a down right foolish thought.”

    The player you want is Ryan Kelly.

  17. turfpack 03/02/2008 at 10:21 PM #

    I can understand why certain people are pessimistic about NCSU (If you were born in the middle 80’s or later)there hasn’t been a championship sinice 1987- things have been up-down as far as basketball is concerned-I’ve been a State fan(grad-1979)for 35yrs I have felt better about our program the last 2 years than I have in 15-20yrs(I can’t really tell you why, except for the feeling someone cares)NO thanks to Lee Worthless.We will get it turned around-with or with out Lee at AD.

  18. redfred2 03/02/2008 at 10:21 PM #

    Noah, please read back over the majority of comments on this subject. 95 posters out of 100 will jump right up and say, “Hell yeah man, if it was me, I’d take the money man”, irregardless of whether they think the player is really ready perform on that level or not.

    UNC, Duke, and other big time programs all have players with NBA potential from the moment they step on campus. It’s just that when you’re playing with other kids on your own team who just as or better than yourself, then you think twice about making the jump.

    Not at NC State though, you let an NBA scout say something good about a kid, and people think he’s the best thing anyone’s ever seen. That’s true no matter how he struggled to maintain in head to head competition against some of the other ACC also ran players who happen to play his same position.

    It is a joke.

  19. Afterglow 03/02/2008 at 10:37 PM #

    It may have something to do with the coaches’ influence over the players, the idea of winning a national championship, along with playing for an elite school. Albeit, we cringe, hiss and scoff at the idea of playing for Duke or UNC. But to a kid who is fairly neutral on the subject may just be looking at that status of playing for a high profile school. That along with the very thought of winning the National Championship may be enough to keep them another year. It may be a while before we recreate that culture. That’s my spin on it anyways.

  20. Noah 03/03/2008 at 12:25 AM #

    First of all, let’s stop comparing NC State with Dook and UNC. We play in the same conference…but it’s not like we play in the same league.

    People with NBA futures are so rare at NC State, it’s impossible to get any kind of trend-line going.

    Secondly, Julius Hodge stayed for four years. So did Marcus Melvin (and yes, he was extremely close to leaving after his junior year). In football, Torry Holt and Philip Rivers both stayed.

    But if it’s a joke to you, go crazy.

  21. Rochester 03/03/2008 at 7:59 AM #

    What makes me think Hickson is leaving is that I’m guessing he planned all along to go one-and-done. And when he scores 31 in his first game he feels ready. All along he probably figured this was a one-year stop, so even when he struggles it’s hard to change that thinking.

    Because no one can guarantee him where he’ll be picked, all he needs is one or two projections putting him in the lottery to rationalize jumping, even if there are 40 others that have him late first/early second. Once his mindset is in the draft, it’s hard to back out. I think he’s gone. I’m not saying I want him to go or I’m rooting for him to leave. I’m just saying I predict he won’t be back.

  22. RAWFS 03/03/2008 at 8:18 AM #

    Grey – I have a lot of respect for most of your posts, but please don’t go the “true fan” route. We’re all different and have different opinions…and there’s just no good in calling out fans like that.

  23. RAWFS 03/03/2008 at 8:20 AM #

    First of all, let’s stop comparing NC State with Dook and UNC. We play in the same conference…but it’s not like we play in the same league.

    People with NBA futures are so rare at NC State, it’s impossible to get any kind of trend-line going.

    I strongly disagree with the idea that no trend line can be started. There are more than two schools in the country that consistently produce NBA talent, and there are coaches who are able to establish programs that do so. NC State can be one of them. The real question is whether Wolfpack fans will have the patience for someone to build on an already present foundation that does need repair but it nonetheless one that is rooted strongly in history and has all of the tools to have a strong future.

  24. haze 03/03/2008 at 9:50 AM #

    One issue with keeping kids with NBA potential in the current NC State program (vs. Duke or UNC) is that NC State is not a probable player for the NC. Sure, some kids are leaving no matter what (#1 pick, family issues, not going to class, love of $$$$). However, there are some that are on the fence b/c they are either non-lottery 1st rounders or just kids that love college (e.g. Duncan). If you can reasonably expect to contend for an NC, then you are giving these kids something extra to keep them in college. We just can’t sell the “reasonable” part with a straight face right now.

    FWIW, I agree that the current NBA policy is insane; 1 year in college is worse than none. I’d recommend the MLB route instead, giving the option for a draft after HS but then no next opportunity until after the Jr year in college. I can see a Soph option for bball, just not a 1yr thing.

  25. choppack1 03/03/2008 at 10:41 AM #

    Haze – it would actually make sense if the NBA adopted the rule that the NFL did…3 years out of high school graduation. They now actually have some evidence on their side that maybe an 18 year old’s body isn’t built to w/ stand the rigors of the NBA – see Sean Livingston. They could also mention that they don’t think that an 18-19 year old is physically mature enough.

    I do think the greater point is that NC State doesn’t necessarily want to be the new GaTech. GaTech gets great players and they tend to stay 1 or 2 years. Subsequntly, they seem to be battling on the bubble more often than not.

    OTOH, you don’t want a team full of projects either. If you do, you better have a staff that excels in developing talent. Right now, the early results aren’t encouraging in that area…as a matter of fact, they’re downright discouraging.

    Changing the subject to our guards – we’ll see how Mr. Mays and Williams fit in on this team. Hopefully, these guys will give us the option of “going quick” on our opponent. I’ll also be interested in how Lowe plays this hand. Right now, he still looks to stubbornly stick w/ the traditional lineup. It really puzzles me why Grant isn’t placed at the 4 more – especially since Ferguson is looking more legit at the 2 and 3 spot w/ each game.

    As far as Javi goes – he’s had games like this before. I like his moxie. Unfortunately, his limitations are the same as they’ve been before. He’s barely 6 feet, and I think he has a nagging leg injury. (If you watch him closely enough, you’ll notice him limping sometime.) Paulus is an “easy-mark” for quicker PGs in this league. Javi also matches up well w/ Ish Smith. However, he’ll struggle w/ bigger and stronger guards – especially when they combine those skills w/ quickness.

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