Campout Fiasco (Updated)

‘Crisis’ averted. Friday morning update –

“After much consideration and work by student leaders, specifically Jay Dawkins, an agreement was reached with Dr. Tom Stafford. The agreement was reached that all 2,847 tickets will be allotted to Campout.”

The following was our original entry on the topic as of Thursday night:

For the years that we have been running this blog (and Statefans.com before it) we have had a community where our readers have been so appreciative that they have asked “What can we do to support you guys? Won’t you take up some donations or something?”

We never have (although we have recently gotten with the times and added some Google ads).

If you are one of those that would like to give back a little and never have had the opportunity — we have something for you.

Tonight I received the following email from a friend who asked me to forward it to others..

===========================

SO WHAT’S GOING ON?

N.C. State is about to break all records for Campout on Friday with well over 3,000+ campers, as reported in Technician on Thursday:

Jay Dawkins, Chairman of the Student Senate Campus Community Committee, worked with University Athletics to make sure every single person who camped out for the entire night Friday-Saturday would be guaranteed a ticket to the event…

********************

…but then shortly before 5:00pm on Thursday, Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs Tom Stafford announced that the Campus Community Committee’s decision to make people *actually* camp out to get tickets was unfair to students who did not — and he ordered that all tickets be awarded by lottery, with a set amount of tickets for students who camped out and a set amount of tickets for students who don’t.

In an email response to his decision, Student Body President Bobby Mills supported this plan, saying “Dr. Stafford, I totally agree with you… I warned the committee about this decision [to make students camp out].”

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If your odds of getting a ticket for camping out are decided at random, and the odds of getting a ticket if you *don’t* camp out are decided at random, there’s essentially no incentive to camp out.

In other words, this was an intentional sabotage of the Campout tradition.

********************

At 3:00pm on Friday afternoon, students who are outraged by the Vice Chancellor’s and Student Body President’s decision to sabotage Campout will be gathering out front of Holladay Hall for a rally to demand that the tickets get restored so that every single ticket to the UNC basketball game goes to students who actually camp out at Campout!

—————————————————————-

So, I fired off the following with my forward but had problems with my email server and decided to post it here on SFN. SInce I didn’t get it out to the masses, perhaps you can just send your friends in and around Raleigh this link. My comments were as follows:

I know that you think that you are too old for this stuff…and I know that you initially will disregard my forwarded email as really insignificant stuff…

…but, I am forwarding you this quick email to call your attention to the continued crackdown on the student experience at our alma mater. Do yourself a favor and peruse the forwarded email and the link to the Technician article to give yourself an education at just how #($#&-up the “Fun Police” have become at NC State.

You may or may not know that campouts on campus for tickets have been extinct for years. So, it was particularly encouraging to learn that the student body recognized the value of the experience and the obvious tenent that one who actually has to sacrifice for something will value the ticket significantly more than someone who makes no investment and receives something at random. (Have you been wondered why the student section doesn’t compare with when you were in school?) Of course, in the screwed up wisdom of college campuses in 2008’s America, it is considered “fair” to give things to people who don’t want to prioritize, invest, sacrifice or work for them over the people who are willing to earn the right. If only my professors would have been so “fair”.

NC State continues its rapid DE-evolution into a commuter school with very little social experience or campus life as evidenced by the continued destruction of the traditions that have historically bound generations of alumni from different time periods. We’ve already been guilty of absence as Tom Stafford has almost single-handedly destroyed NC State’s greek system which now sits at about half of the population as it did 15 years ago. And, don’t forget about the tailgating restrictions that Stafford (and crew) swept over alll alums a couple of years ago. Many wonder if Stafford and his institutionalized “fun and fair police” will stop until no student wants to live on campus and until no beer is consumed in any private or public establishment in West Raleigh.

Perhaps it is time for the key constituency of young, successful alumni and donors to start to making our voices heard for the ‘leaders’ that don’t grasp the long term value of providing a wonderful collegiate experience to students while they are on campus?

If you live in Raleigh and have a few minutes before the weekend arrives on a random Friday afternoon tomorrow, you may want to consider stopping by this event at 3pm tomorrow. Seriously…what would it hurt to invest a few minutes into something that I think/hope means something to you? The more bodies present…even if they are just milling around…will carry a big impact. (If you REALLY want to make them mad then show up drinking beer and wearing greek letters!)

I have included friends who don’t live in Raleigh on this email to encourage you to consider forwarding this to some of your friends who may be in the Triangle.

Thank you for your time.

Post-Script:
For a little more reference I am adding a couple of old blog entries that include some great comments from readers that are relevant to this that some of you may enjoy.

2/1/06 – Campout draws a small crowd

1/30/07 – Technician to Stafford: Improve or Retire

11/16/06 – Thank you, Clemson

2/21/07 – ‘Raleigh Time’

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94 Responses to Campout Fiasco (Updated)

  1. wufpup76 02/08/2008 at 12:08 PM #

    sorry for the hijack / off-topic post, but john brady has been fired by lsu this morning …

    brady’s name was thrown out there as a potential candidate for our job prior to last season … i was glad that didn’t happen, but that’s nothing personal against the guy

    a little surprised they would fire him when they went to the final four just a couple of seasons ago … whenever i see lsu play on tv, it always seems they don’t have much of a crowd … not sure what firing the coach will do for that, but whatever

    we “ran off” herb after such a glorious 10-year run (even though he left when key people wanted him to stay) and got skewered in the media … let’s see the outrage for firing a coach in late-season just two seasons removed from being in the final four … my guess? nothing like that will happen as it will be construed as an sec school rightfully trying to get itself to the top … for some reason it’s unreasonable for nc state fans to want to win … anyway, we’ll see what happens

    go pack

  2. BillyVest 02/08/2008 at 12:09 PM #

    branjawn, I think you’re reaching to tie in Stafford’s comments with a “liberal” conspiracy to undermine attendance at NCSU home basketball games via the allotment of student tickets.

  3. 82_furn_grad 02/08/2008 at 12:16 PM #

    Gosh I’m old…

    I remember during my tenure in Raleigh (77-82)that we camped out in front of Reynolds for Carolina tickets…

    It was great and I’m so gald that I was part of that tradition…

    I remember one specific year that a concert was being held at Reynolds I believe on Sunday…

    The powers at be would allow the students to start lining up @ 5 PM on Sunday afternoon…

    We stood across the street at Reynolds until we could line up at the ticket booths…

    The Carolina game was on Wed night…

    Gosh I’m old…

  4. IMFletcherWolf 02/08/2008 at 12:20 PM #

    PacknSack
    Feb 8th, 2008 at 11:15 am
    I think the Les Robinson Era essentially killed campouts. Why camp out to watch a bad team, when there were always tickets available?

    This statement is absolutely false. I was a student from 93-97 so Les was coach all 4 of my years in school and demand was extremely high. If you wanted tickets you had to line up out front of Reynolds early on Monday morning and there were campouts for the bigger games like UNC-CH and Duke. It amazed us at the time how so many people wanted to watch a losing team. “When we get good I don’t know how students are going to get tickets” is what we said at the time. We could actually remember when State competed for Championships.

  5. branjawn 02/08/2008 at 12:21 PM #

    Liberal conspiracy? I spoke of a liberal world view. ‘World view’ refers to the framework of ideas and beliefs through which an individual interprets the world and interacts in it. One would have to be in denial to not see the absurd amount of political correctness and “inclusion” being pushed at the university level in the name of tolerance. I digress, you assume I use the world liberal as an organization, I use it as, well as I stated above, a world view. Now that I reread your last post, it’s completely ignorant. I said nothing of attendance at games. I only spoke of the preposterous way in which the tickets are alloted.

  6. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 02/08/2008 at 12:22 PM #

    Why doesn’t the WPC start raising money to dome Carter Stadium so the game could be played there and so everyone can go.

  7. branjawn 02/08/2008 at 12:27 PM #

    Actually, you would only need to dome the court part right? heh

  8. Texpack 02/08/2008 at 12:36 PM #

    As a HOZE Squad member, the latest I ever got in line for tickets to an ACC game was about 3 am. That’s what it took to get the seats in Section K directly behind the State bench in Reynolds. The opportunity to scream at Reggie Jackson, Lenny Wirtz, Doh, Dan Meagher, Ralph Sampson, Terry Holland, et. al., was way more than worth it. The permeation of socialist principles into things like student tickets is the result of having a bunch of liberal wimps in charge. The closest we ever came to a lottery for distribution was when they did random distribution of tickets for a couple of games right after the semester break. Students who gwt UNC-CH basketball tickets should be hard core NC State basketball fans and nothing else.

    Note this comment resubmitted with self imposed moderation, since my initial comment from this morning is still awaiting same.

  9. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 02/08/2008 at 12:43 PM #

    I would appreciate it if anyone could find any old articles on the plans to dome Carter back in the late 70’s. I remember a big spread with artist conception of what it would look like but I can’t seem to find anything online about those plans. We can all be thankful clearer minds prevailed but does anyone else remember this? Who wanted to do it or any other details from that idea?

  10. Otis 02/08/2008 at 1:01 PM #

    I preface this with the fact that I am a current student. Please do not lament the decline of the greek system with the loss of the campout for tickets. I feel that the campout is a much more vital aspect of student life than the antiquated greek system. The deciding factor of my choice to attend NCSU over UNC was the greek system. The Greek system is very alive and strong at UNX, i am not sure if it was differnt in your days, but today the Greek system stands for many things that I feel NC State is not. The Greek systems has become a bastion of elitist, self important, society of privileged and entitled. I think that campout is important to NCState student life, but I could do without the Greek system. If you doubt me – go to Franklin St, (i spent the last 6 years living in Chapel Hill before I started to attend NC State) the masses of frat boys and sorastitutes all trying to dress and act alike deeply disturbs me, and doesn’t represent a school for the people.

  11. wufpup76 02/08/2008 at 1:08 PM #

    ^well put, otis

  12. jcox 02/08/2008 at 1:25 PM #

    Good Luck to Jay Dawkins, I dealt with that issue after the 2000 campout. I would be in meetings with Stafford, Cobb, Fowler, Younce, and others and the word Campout would send chills down everyone spine. That was fun.

  13. Wulfpack 02/08/2008 at 1:39 PM #

    ACC Football Schedule released. Tough row to ho out of the gate!

    http://media.charlotteobserver.com/smedia/2008/02/08/13/08ACCfbteams.source.prod_affiliate.57.pdf

  14. Mike 02/08/2008 at 1:42 PM #

    Otis, well said. I was there 85-89 and decided I did not have to buy my friends. I had one frat actively recruiting me, and it seemed all they wanted was my money (funny thing, I had none). What really made me make up my mind though was when they told me I could only date sorority girls, and only ones from certain sororities. I know many people who have had extremely positice frat experiences, but mine was a complete turn off. During my time on campus, I noticed these trends as well as I walked around campus. So glad I did not join, and now I do make the joke that “I did not have to buy my friends.”

  15. Ed89 02/08/2008 at 1:55 PM #

    same time frame for me, too, Mike. i was a G.D.I., too. only dating sorority girls??? at State??? sorority girls???? at State??? are you kidding me???

  16. backinpack 02/08/2008 at 2:04 PM #

    you old guys don’t realize that ‘sorority girls at state’ isn’t as much of a joke as it used to be….

  17. choppack1 02/08/2008 at 2:09 PM #

    Otis – I wasn’t in a fraternity, but this doesn’t change the fact that at most large universities where people actually live on or near campus, they are part of campus/college life.

    The Greek system is just many of the aspects of “on-campus” life de-emphasized by the university. When I was at school, we still had Wolfstock. When I was freshman, it was still largely unregulated. By the time I was a senior, it was regulated, but an “of-age” student, could bring in 4 beers. (Being the out-of-box thinker that I was, I brought in 4 master cylinders!) It was still lots of fun – and you know you were at college and you knew you were at NC State.

    But the bottum line – whether you’re talking about the Wolfstock, Hillsborough Street, Reynolds Coliseum,campout, tailgating, or the Greek system, the powers that be have taken steps – knowingly and/or unknowingly – to de-emphasize the campus experience at NC State. They seem perfectly content to turn NC State into an urban commuter school where the majority of most students lives take place outside of the scope of the university. Quite frankly, I find it sad…are there any other “commuter” schools in the ACC??

  18. Ed89 02/08/2008 at 2:11 PM #

    ^^”you old guys…”

    that’s a low blow!

  19. whitefang 02/08/2008 at 2:42 PM #

    Otis – different strokes for different folks, but the decline of the Greek system at State I believe is a big step down the “commuter school” path and IMHO a real negative for a school.
    And as surprising as it may seem to some, when my kids were college “shopping” a strong Greek system was very high on their lists of things they were looking for.
    Frankly I could not even imagine attending a school without being in a fraternity. That’s just me of course. The things I remember most fondly about my years at State (many years ago of course) revolved around fraternity life and athletics. In fact in those days my UNC buddies would often show up in Raleigh on fraternity row on the weekends because we had more stuff going on.
    But as I said different strokes.

  20. haze 02/08/2008 at 2:44 PM #

    Greek? Could take or leave it… as I’d prefer to have the admin do.

    Wolfstock? Yeah Baby, that one I want back! Wolfstock was literally the only NC State social event cool enough to get kids from other universities into Raleigh. It was a red letter day on the schedule.

  21. CarnifeX 02/08/2008 at 3:11 PM #

    Brent Road Party. Not even on campus; shut down by NCSU admin, another example of the admin GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY to disrupt any sort of college experience. When I was a freshman, my folks got a letter telling them to deter their children from attending this party. Its pretty crazy if you ask me. I guess its kinda like the seat-belt law and pussification of our nation.

    F*** it dude, lets go bowling.

  22. Ed89 02/08/2008 at 3:11 PM #

    in addition to wolfstock, we had central campus craze and west campus jam…man, i sorta feel sorry for the young ‘uns today.

  23. choppack1 02/08/2008 at 3:24 PM #

    CarnifeX – The Brent Road party is a perfect example of the “market place” filling a niche. I remember one of the first major ones, we didn’t know it would end up that way…some of our good friends lived on the road, and said, we’re having some kegs, and some other folks next to us are too, come on over…We walked outside later that night and the entire street was packed.

    MAF actually led the charge on that one. But is this kind of thing a surprise when you move the parties off campus and don’t take care of your main “strip”?

    It’s funny, here in Winston – they roll their quad after a big win and they have a bar on campus (or at least they did) – of course, they’re a private school and probably have better leadership than we do. When know they do at the AD’s office.

  24. RedTerror29 02/08/2008 at 3:39 PM #

    choppack1,

    Maryland is a commuter school. And not somewhere I would like to compare State too (although it is a fine university).

  25. highstick 02/08/2008 at 3:42 PM #

    I guess they would have banned the Alice Cooper concert on the PE fields above Carmichael when I was there?? I’m not sure there was a sorority when I was there except for the Female Pershing Rifles!

    I was there pre-fraternity row and then back after it was built. My fratenity experience was mixed. I roomed with some frat guys one summer and we had a great time. But I can remember some of the “snot noses” though. Got a belly full of those officiating fraternity and open league IM basketball games!

    Like I say, I’ve had mixed experiences and agree it’s not for everyone, but for those who want that, I have no problem.

    Back to the original thread, it seems like both times I was at State, we just picked up tickets at Reynolds, first come-first serve for the big games, UNC and Duke, but most of the time, there were enough seats to just show your student ID at the door and get in. I’m sure that wouldn’t work now.

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