PP: ‘Pack Soccer, A Commitment to Disaster’

As we piggy-back this entry from just a couple of weeks ago that was written when NC State had ZERO conference wins in fall sports, it is time for our annual mention of just how poorly the NC State soccer programs are being managed (or, just how wonderful the programs are being mis-managed).

Just last year, Lee Fowler’s NC State ‘accomplished a rare double dip of pathos with its men’s and women’s soccer teams each being the bottom seeds, based on their conference records, in their respective tournaments.’ (You can review our entry on the topic by clicking here.)

Well, this year ain’t going much better as the men and women’s teams are again BOTH at the bottom of the league with a collective ACC record of 1-12. Pack Pride has a thread on the topic with some additional historical information included.

OF COURSE this topic is discussed exclusively on the message boards as you would never see such an ‘article’ ever produced at PP (or The Wolfpacker). As you know, the sites are far too busy writing recruiting diaries and profiles on 15 year old high school students. Of course, a kid in Ohio who has a 5% chance of playing sports at NC State in five years is much more relevant to NC State websites than thought provoking stories about NC State Athletics.

In this instance, it looks like quite a few posts have been deleted from the thread, so we have no idea if the posts included inside perspectives that the site didn’t want in the public domain (so as to not harm their relationship with the all powerful Annabelle Vaugn Myers); or if the posts were derogatory.

Regardless, this interesting tidbit was included in the thread. Sounds like old Coach Fowler’s ‘leadership’ skills have allowed the Nora-Lynn-Finch-attitude to permeate throughout the Athletics Department.

My wife played for a top 5 program in the nation and was one of the faster players on the team. She got homesick and wanted to come back to NC. She detested the whole atmosphere at UNC and wanted to major in engineering. She decided on State and called Kerrigan to arrange her transfer to State. Kerrigan wouldn’t even contact her back and she had to go through the AD to get a tryout. Kerrigan took her on reluctantly and then stuck her on State’s bench for her career while State finished last every season in soccer. Kerrigan was trying to prove a point to the AD that she could recruit and would only play her players. The seniors on the team at the time Kerrigan was hired sat the bench that year and basically all freshmen played. It was pathetic to watch and I actually would boo her outloud at games for her decision making. She is a pathetic excuse for a coach and the sooner she is let go, the faster our soccer team will come out of the cellar of the ACC. She has never finished better than 7th in the conference and that was in the 9 team ACC and with GA Tech not having a team at the time.

It’s funny that many fans presume that Coach George Tarantini’s 41-76-14 ACC record would support his removal as coach from a sport that produces no revenue. That winning percentage is pretty similar to the Wolfpack’s most recent Head Basketball Coach whom our AD wouldn’t dare remove.

For the record, the following are NC State’s rankings in the NCAA’s annual ‘all-sports’ rankings now known as the “Director’s Cup’ (originailly known as the ‘Sears Cup’). The Pack finished 8th amongst ACC schools after posting our best finish in the Lee Fowler years of a fantastically mediocre 6th (in the ACC) last year.

—Lee Fowler Years—-

2006-07 – #44
2005-06 – #34
2004-05 – #51
2003-04 – #39
2002-03 – #43
2001-02 – #46
2000-01 – #56

—Les Robinson Years—
1999-00 – #40
1998-99 – #63
1997-98 – #43
1996-97 – #57

—Todd Turner Years—
1995-96 – #34
1994-95 – #32
1993-94 – #59

Any conversation about ‘all sports’ would not be complete without this entry.

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50 Responses to PP: ‘Pack Soccer, A Commitment to Disaster’

  1. Rick 11/01/2007 at 11:20 AM #

    “What is it with ANY EMPLOYEE UNDER LEE FOWLER that makes him immune to any sort of performance-based job pressure?”

    FTFY

  2. VaWolf82 11/01/2007 at 12:07 PM #

    One wonders how Duke ever wins a basketball game (men’s or women’s) having to play in that dungeon. 😉

  3. choppack1 11/01/2007 at 1:25 PM #

    So many thoughts on this:
    1) If you are going to suck at something – by all rights – suck at soccer. There’s no sport (especially for men) in the world better to suck at. I mean look at the poll here –
    . Wake Forest 1 12-1-2
    2. Furman 2 14-2-0
    3. North Carolina 3 6-4-5
    4. Duke 4 9-5-1
    5. South Carolina 5 9-5-1
    6. Elon 6 7-4-4
    7. College of Charleston 7 10-4-1
    8. Stetson 9 10-4-1
    9. Jacksonville 10 9-6-1
    10. Campbell 8 9-4-2

    How many of those schools would you even want to go to?? I mean, they’re fun – w/ 1 notable exception – if you don’t like going to football games w/ more than a few thousand people.

    2) Facilities do make a difference – but they don’t make the difference between good and bad. They make a difference between bad and worse, mediore vs. bad, good vs. great, etc. If our programs are perenially in the bottom 1/3 of the conference, they’re not likely to move up to the top 1/3 under current leadership.

    3) Both of these coaches have been forever, and they’ve been passed by the opposition. It’s time for them to go.

    4) The “facilities” problem speaks to a larger issue. We often talk about the seemingly inevitable slouch of NC State to a “commuter school.” We don’t need our soccer facility to be the best – but this and other non-revenue sports should have a decent facility close to centralized campus. That we need facilities in almost all of our sports at one speaks volume of the collective leadership we’ve enjoyed for decades. While none of the schools above are schools I’d want to attend – they probably do have nice campuses. If we want to free ourselves from the commuter noose – we need to build a nice soccer stadium – on campus. It doesn’t have to be a big deal – it just needs to be nice enough.

    5) If I’m ever king, men caught playing soccer will be tasered. Women’s soccer will be allowed and even encouraged, but soccer for men will be outlawed.

  4. LRM 11/01/2007 at 1:53 PM #

    I remember back in the 80s when they started shoving soccer down our throats in elementary school PE classes because it was all-inclusive. Even at that age those of us that played real sports knew why they were doing it; it was the counter culture to those of us that played American sports.

    Now I’m not saying soccer players aren’t athletes; no doubt they are tremendous athletes. But if your kid sucks at everything else, you can still put him in a silly uniform and go watch him run around for an hour and even if he never touches the ball he feels good about himself because he particpated. At least the eight-year old kid in right field eventually has to hit, and that’s a lesson in life that can never be replaced.

  5. McPete 11/01/2007 at 2:30 PM #

    Can’t Tarantino just call the wolf to clean this mess up?

    Quick question: do club level teams qualify for this discussion? how’s the men’s hockey team? i’ve seen them play a few times and i’d be much, much, much more interested in talking college hockey than soccer.

  6. Mr O 11/01/2007 at 3:14 PM #

    LRM: Sounds like you never played soccer. I quit baseball in 8th grade because it wasn’t nearly as fun as playing soccer. I was going to pitch and play shortstop that year, but it just wasn’t worth continuing to take the time away from travel soccer. In the 4th grade we won a state title and I got to travel to Tampa, Fl for the SE regionals(12 team tournament with winner going to Nationals). Even as a 10 year old, it had nothing to do with feeling good about yourself because you participated. Of course at the rec league level of any sport, you are right that it is much more about “participation” as it is winning and losing. As a kid, I got a ton of enjoyment out of soccer and got to travel allover the east coast playing it outdoors and indoors. Back then, you didn’t get to do that very much in any other sport.

    Now I have no interest in soccer at any level. I might watch a few World Cup games every four years, but I much prefer to watch football and basketball in terms of spectator sports. Soccer is a crappy spectator sport, but it playing it is a different story.

  7. LRM 11/01/2007 at 3:35 PM #

    Mr. O,
    Nah, I never played soccer…that was all in jest, really. I’ll say this, if I ever have kids, I’d much rather them play any sport — yes, even soccer — than waste away in front of an xbox.

  8. E-RO 11/01/2007 at 3:45 PM #
  9. TNCSU 11/01/2007 at 3:48 PM #

    LRM, I thought your post was mostly in jest, too, but I have to admit, I thought it was funny — and in some aspects, true. My nephew played on a travel soccer team, and never saw the field – was/is NOT an athlete at all, but at least his parents (and he) could say he “played.” Anyway, in my book it was a big waste of money, because I don’t think it taught him much of anything – btw, he flunked out of college last year. Another waste of money that he got from his parents. I also agree that playing any sport — or being outside doing anything — is better than wasting away in front of an xbox, gameboy, wii, etc.

    I agree with Mr O that Soccer is a crappy spectator sport, but I wouldn’t put it much higher as a playing sport — and I did play some — when I wasn’t playing the Big 3 — or golf or tennis. Literally, soccer would be next to last of my choices — right above bowling. 🙂

  10. noah 11/01/2007 at 3:50 PM #

    Soccer looks like it’s a lot of fun to play. Not only that, it’s one of those natural sports that you can play anywhere at anytime with basically no equipment (like most track and field events, marathons, wrestling, etc).

    For me, it’s f-ing HORRIBLE to watch. It’s ranked at the absolute bottom with rednecks driving in circles and the NBA in terms of watchability.

    But it looks like it’s a lot of fun to play.

    And the reason it got introduced to kids in the 60s and 70s was NOT because it was inclusive. it was because all you had to do was roll a ball out on a field and say, “Go kick it and run around” and you had PE for an hour. It’s the same reason kids played dodgeball.

    “Here. Throw this at that guy.”

    You didn’t have to maintain any equipment. You didn’t have to maintain any particular types of fields. I grew up in eastern North Carolina, so playing soccer invariably meant spending the following hour picking sand spurs out of your shoelaces and socks following gym. If you were truly unlucky, one of the sand spurs would get lodged in the ball right before the ball connected with your shin.

    The reason it didn’t take off was because there was never any history of it here. I’ve mentioned this before, but sports are very much a part of life that one generation hands to the next.

    Children emulate their parents…until the day that they reject their parents. And then they move out. And you reject your parents to begin severing those ties so you CAN move out. Otherwise, your parents would have to throw rocks at you to get you to leave.

    But somethings are sacred. Food is one of them. Sports are another. The equipment that your mom or grandmother used and their recipes are something you NEVER reject.

    Sports are the same way. You watch games with your mother and/or father and you play catch and shoot baskets with your mother and/or father and you treasure those moments. Your dad teaches you to keep score and he tells you about the players he saw and you cheer together and talk trades together and you bond in a way that only sports allow.

    So when you watch baseball as an adult, you remember those moments and you want to share them with your kid. And so on and so on and so on.

    Well, we grew up watching football or baseball or basketball with our mothers and/or fathers. People in england grew up watching soccer. People in india grew up watching cricket. And so on and so on and so on.

    The dynamic is the same. We reject soccer as a culture because it lacks the generational attachment that other sports have.

    But it looks like it’s fun to play.

  11. LRM 11/01/2007 at 3:52 PM #

    Speaking of bowling, I miss those days grabbing a club sandwich for lunch with a couple friends at the bowling alley on Hillsborough and bowling (badly) a few frames between classes. Those were innocent times.

  12. Cardiac95 11/01/2007 at 4:08 PM #

    Maybe now is the time to check back in with Lee & see how we’re doing with the goals he stated back in 2001 or 2002…

    To be Top 3 in the Conference in every varsity sport.

  13. Mr O 11/01/2007 at 4:34 PM #

    LRM: I know, no big deal. Soccer will never takeoff in the States because we have much more interesting games from a spectator’s standpoint.

    It would be interesting to send those Southern rankings to Lee Fowler and see what his thoughts are of the facilities at places like Elon, College of Charleston, and Jacksonville.

  14. whitefang 11/01/2007 at 4:57 PM #

    Since the thread seems to have gone to the discussion of soccer in general I’ll put in my $0.02.
    I coached a kid at the middle school level who was one heck of a fb player and played soccer too. But decided (with mom’s help) to dedicate one year to soccer and not play fb. Came to me the next year and said basically, “coach, I can’t decide whether I should play football or soccer, but I sure do miss football.”
    Asked him whether he wanted to play in front of a few hundred people on Wednesday or a few thousand on Friday night? BTW He plays fb for Furman now. Guess if he played soccer his team would be ranked #2, but he told me later he DEFINITELY made the right decision.

  15. SuperStuff 11/01/2007 at 5:13 PM #

    I know several moms that only allow their kids to play soccer. The thing I hate about soccer is how they can take an inexpensive sport (all you need is one ball and two goals) and make it into the most expensive sport with all these traveling teams.

  16. Rick 11/01/2007 at 5:34 PM #

    “Maybe now is the time to check back in with Lee & see how we’re doing with the goals he stated back in 2001 or 2002…

    To be Top 3 in the Conference in every varsity sport.”

    You know I do rememberthat way back then. I notice he never mentions that now. I am assuming he forgot about that goal.

    Or maybe he just has no idea about how to actually attain something.

  17. haze 11/01/2007 at 5:56 PM #

    Noah, that was a first-class discussion of the emotional meanings of sports, generally. Bravo.

    As for Soccer, though I never played, I don’t agree that it’s boring to watch. In fact, it’s one of the few games where the cameras are pulled back enough to let you see the field. I wish football cameras would back off a bit.

    However, like practically every sport other than football and basketball, I only watch championship level stuff OR NC State 🙂 When I’m watching the most competitive level of practically anything, it’s good. When I’m watching run-of-the-mill level, it generally sucks. Effectively, I crave watching anyone try to be the very best at what they do b/c they are inevitably performing under tremendous pressure. For the good, this means things like the Majors in golf, the Olympics (including CURLING for God’s sake), the Stanley Cup playoffs, the World Cup in Soccer (men or women) or the Premier League in Europe and the Tour de France (admittedly a reach these days). On the bad, try the Buick Open in golf, any non-Olympic track meet, regular season NHL, MLS Soccer or the Tour de Georgia… that stuff is all INSANELY boring.

  18. STLPACK 11/01/2007 at 6:14 PM #

    SFN: did y’all see the ESPN MCB Frontpage?

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/index

    if they changed it, they are featuring Herb’s recruit James Harden.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/insider/columns/story?columnist=gottlieb_doug&id=3088916

    no mention of Hickson…. i guess since our program is on the rise we don’t need changing (but Lucas of UF gets mentioned)

    We’ll see if Herbie can develop him. I saw many stellar recruits come through State in my time that just didn’t seem to develop as players.

  19. JeremyH 11/01/2007 at 7:44 PM #

    is the pack pass video not working for anyone else?

  20. packgrad2000 11/01/2007 at 8:38 PM #

    We have golf, baseball, and NASCAR on TV and you think soccer is a boring spectator sport? You definitely haven’t watched a World Cup game in a crowd of fans then. I love NC State football and basketball, but the most excited I’ve ever gotten watching a game is watching the US beat Portugal in the 2002 World Cup. There’s just nothing like the emotion of a goal being scored.
    The MLS is boring just like the NBA is boring. But the World Cup is a whole different story.

  21. The Big Leebowski 11/01/2007 at 9:09 PM #

    Nice point haze, I fully agree, I can watch anything that is NC State or any event that is being played at a championship world-class level, otherwise it’s not going to get my attention.

    Facilities are only part equation in success. And in most successful programs, it is probably only a very small part. Not having adequate facilites, however, is a huge disadvantage. It shows a lack of support from the university, and that has to have some effect on recruiting and team psychology. Method Road park was nothing all that special when they started using it two decades ago, and they sure as heck hadn’t done much else with it.

    One thing that the NC State athletics department is doing right is that facility improvements are finally getting done. No one will argue that the RBC Center and the much-needed improvements to Carter-Finley were long overdue. The improvement to Doak Field has been tremendous, not in wins and losses yet, but it is much better gameday atmosphere (a complaint that the AD should have to answer to in football). And is there any correlation to the recent success in Mens Tennis and the completion of the Isenhour Tennis Center? Of course that’s speculation, but you have to like what they’ve done there. I’ve seen the construction going on around Paul Derr track, and I think it is going to benefit for the track and soccer programs. I also really how the new softball stadium is shaping up.

    And does Tarantini still have that euro-mullet? He probably should be fired just for sporting that…

  22. old_pcorone 11/02/2007 at 9:11 AM #

    I went to many soccer matches while attending NC State
    I have to say that there were a couple of decent teams in 2001-2004 but coaching needs to improve.
    I was quite appaled by the ass-whoopings UNC or Duke gave us.

    Moving in campus will not make much difference really, maybe having some more fans but unless the program is prioritized and a newer coach is hired there is no hope

  23. Pack84 11/05/2007 at 11:24 AM #

    Should Taratini be fired? Probably so. But the bottom line is that most folks just simply don’t give a rat’s ass about soccer. If we suck at it then so be it.

    Over at Pack Pride they have a game thread for each football game and men’s basketball game. Do they have any game threads for men’s soccer? Of course not. And the biggest reason is that very few people give a damn. Is Wendell Murphy threatening to cut off money cause we suck at soccer? Nope.

    The point of all this is simply to say that the reason we don’t demand better out of this program is because not very many people care in the first place, and since nobody seems to care Lee Fowler chooses not to make waves.

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