Vols fans applying heat through their newfound apathy

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Link to Sports Illustrated article.

I share this link and this topic for multiple reasons, including the broad fact that it is generally interesting news.

First, note how the STUDENTS have to PAY FOR TICKETS. I highlight this because we have not yet blogged about the current issue of the potential increase of student fees at NC State. Many NC State students/fans/alums don’t even know that many schools not only have student fees for athletics, but also SELL tickets to students. Can you imagine? IIRC, schools like Notre Dame, Ohio State, LSU and others sell season tickets to students at reduced rates (approximately $100).

Second, note the comments of the Athletics Director spinning the pressure at UT into a positive. Good move by the AD. Could you imagine if he had been stupid enough to criticize the fan base for their expectations? I don’t know many ADs that dumb…but…(you finish this sentence) Not only would the fan base turn more ire towards the AD, the media would then feel empowered to also criticize the fans and their ‘unfair expectations’ while also serving to paint a picture of a divided program that could have a negative impact on recruiting.

Lastly, the chief himself – Butch Davis. I can foresee the N&O getting mad at him again this year. (Related link – Tudor on Davis) Just a hunch. But, if for no other reason than Chief Butch would be closer to his Native American brethern near the mountains of Tennessee.

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Tennessee student Kristin Childrey just assumed she and her friends would attend every home football game last season. That’s not the case this year.

“It’s not a priority anymore,” said the 19-year-old sophomore who’s been to two of three home games. “If you’ve got something else to do, you just skip it.”

She’s not alone as the Vols have started 2-3 with an embarrassing loss to Southeastern Conference rival Florida and unconvincing wins over UAB and Northern Illinois at home. The average fan attendance at Neyland Stadium through the first three games was 97,194 — a few thousand below capacity — and down by nearly 4,000 people from what Tennessee averaged through the first three games last season in a similar start.

The comparison isn’t perfect. A more sluggish economy, weather and regional gas shortages have played a role this season. Also for the first time, students have to pay for their game tickets at the cost of $15 a game or $90 for the season.

The student section is responsible for 70 percent of the drop so far, with poor turnout for the UAB and Northern Illinois games.

“It’s almost like a boycott,” said Evan Baddour, a 21-year-old senior who skipped Saturday night’s game against Northern Illinois because of a prior engagement. “At first, it was kind of rebelling against having to pay for tickets, but within my group of friends, (coach Phillip) Fulmer is really the source of what people see as the problem.”

Fans began calling for Fulmer to be fired, much as they did last season after the Vols suffered big losses at California, Florida and Alabama. They said the dean of the SEC coaches was past his prime. Tennessee responded last season by winning the rest of its games and earning a spot in the SEC championship game before losing there. Fulmer was rewarded with a new contract worth an average $3 million annually over the next seven seasons with built-in raises each season, raises for an SEC championship or BCS bowl appearance and an automatic one-year extension for every eight-win season.

He also has a pretty hefty buyout: Getting rid of him this season would cost the Tennessee athletic department $6 million.

At that price, fans say Fulmer shouldn’t have so much trouble winning big games and blowing out mediocre non-conference opponents.

Athletic director Mike Hamilton said that kind of passion comes with the job at Tennessee.

“The good news is, that by being at a place like Tennessee, you subject yourself to both sides of that equation,” he said. “When we’re doing well, they’re going to cheer extra hard. And when we’re struggling a little bit, they’re going to let us know about it. I think that’s one of the good things about being at a place like Tennessee.”

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27 Responses to Vols fans applying heat through their newfound apathy

  1. wufpup76 10/06/2008 at 10:41 PM #

    “The good news is, that by being at a place like Tennessee, you subject yourself to both sides of that equation,” he(Tenn AD) said. “When we’re doing well, they’re going to cheer extra hard. And when we’re struggling a little bit, they’re going to let us know about it. I think that’s one of the good things about being at a place like Tennessee.”

    That’s also one of the great things about being at NC State … but not too everyone … One of the most – if not the most – loyal fanbases in the nation yet we are “idiots” … “lunatics” … “unrealistic”

    Let’s just wave the white flag and go to France eh, Lee & Co.?

  2. daughtry 10/06/2008 at 11:03 PM #

    At Penn State, students pay around $200 for a season ticket. Note that… season ticket. So, if you don’t get it, tough luck for the season.

    And, the resale value is through the roof. This has caused more and more problems.

    In 2007, student tickets (over 21K tickets) sold out in 59 minutes:
    http://www.ticketcity.com/June-2007-Penn-State-Tickets.html

    This year, the junior tickets were gone in 90 seconds:
    http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2008/06/17/junior_tickets_gone_in_90_seco.aspx

    It is crazy. To fix the problem, next year they are trying to tie tickets to your ID card (swipe to get in the game – no paper ticket). Then, the University will be able to manages sales from one student to another, and only let it sell at face value. This will go into effect next year, assuming students don’t manage to talk the school out of it (for those that get tickets, the profit margin is ridiculous right now).

    The other fees paid by students include ~$74 activity fee, but I don’t think that goes to athletics.

  3. ncsumatman 10/06/2008 at 11:11 PM #

    Just a few thoughts:

    I went to grad school at Alabama and paid $5 per game plus a $5 dollar handling fee and it was the greatest thing ever. No waiting in line, no lottery, you knew where you were, period. Granted, I sold my student ticket for LSU, UF and UT for $200 a pop to freshmen, but I was glad to do so.

    That is the price you pay in the SEC, they can demand $5 a game when Mike Shula is your coach, and they can say the hell with what you did a decade ago, what have you done lately for me fat ass Fulmer. Personally, I prefer it, and wish NCSU had the same mindset. You know you get tix, you know you see good football, and you know you rank #2 in the country no matter what Shula left behind. There’s a reason the SEC is the best conference, they demand it. Bout time the ACC did the same.

  4. hai17 10/06/2008 at 11:46 PM #

    Feel free to delete this as it is somewhat off topic, but since you mentioned the increase in student fees…

    I don’t know if many of you have heard how the athletics department was presenting the fee increase, but I personally have big issues with their approach. I remember reading within the past year that our athletics department was one of the most profitable in the country (I would imagine on this very website), and I know that we raise a heck of a lot of money through the Wolfpack Club.

    SFN: NC State’s Athletics Department is nowhere close to the most profitable in the country. The Wolfpack’s Club success is well documented – but that money is not a part of the Athletics Department.

    These facts are in stark opposition to the view of things that Lee Fowler was presenting. Listening to him talk, you would think that we were barely able to pay for any athletics operations, and that the reason that we weren’t competitive with schools like unc or ecu was that they got twice as much money from student fees as our athletics department did.

    Here is a Technician article from 9/25/08 titled “Fowler wants more support from student fees” that has a couple quotes from Fowler in it:
    http://media.www.technicianonline.com/media/storage/paper848/news/2008/09/24/Sports/Fowler.Wants.More.Support.From.Student.Fees-3448310.shtml
    If the link doesn’t work, you can find it in the archives at technicianonline.com . My favorite:

    “I just like to be on a level playing field with UNC, so that’s why I think it’s very important to us. We’re supposed to compete with them, but they’ve had [greater support from student fees] for three or four years now. They’ve been able to get a lot of things done in the last three or four years that we have not been able to.”

    I completely understand the desire for an increase in student fees, and I would have supported the measure had it been presented even somewhat fairly, but the blatant disregard for the intelligence of the student body displayed by Lee Fowler is disgusting. Heck, at the last Student Wolfpack Club Meeting (which felt remarkably like a political rally) he had Tom O’Brien and Kay Yow, among others, essentially begging for support for this measure.

    Mind you, the student vote didn’t matter at all, as all fee increases are determined by a committee (which chose to increase athletics fees), but I did find it moderately humorous that a majority of students voted against the athletics fees.

  5. packpigskinfan23 10/07/2008 at 2:59 AM #

    amen hai17!!!!!

    This is ridiculous. Give credit where credit is due. This athletic department is not due.

  6. Rick 10/07/2008 at 6:52 AM #

    I am not surprised Fowler is not able to gain support for the increase in fees. He is the posterchild for ineptitude.

  7. choppack1 10/07/2008 at 7:19 AM #

    Wow. An AD w/ a basic idea about customer service. He seems to understand that when thousands of people go out of their way to see an athletic event, they don’t want to go home po’d.

  8. Wulfpack 10/07/2008 at 7:27 AM #

    Unless there can be a guarantee made that a better product will be put on the field/court compared to what we have witnessed the past two years, if I were still a student, I wouldn’t pay that SOB or his department an extra dime. Finishing last place and then turning around and raising the price for students is proof that he is out of touch. This is just asinine.

  9. Classof89 10/07/2008 at 8:07 AM #

    These things are all about timing…a year with a football team decimated by injuries and performing inconsistently and a basketball team universally projected to finish at or near the bottom of the league and every other fall sport in similar territory is no time to be asking for more money…Amato could have asked for a new rule requiring students to buy him a new Corvette quarterly after the Gator Bowl win over ND, and the student body probably would have enthusiastically supported it…

  10. Noah 10/07/2008 at 8:13 AM #

    Please. Please Tennessee. Please take Butch Davis.

    And please Dick Baddour. Please promote John Blake to head coach to replace him.

  11. PackerInRussia 10/07/2008 at 8:22 AM #

    Chiming in on the student fees: I read the article before when it was discussed on this site. Am I understanding this line wrong: “According to Athletics Director Lee Fowler, the University is last among those in the UNC system in allocating student fees to athletics. Currently, the Athletics Department’s portion of fees is $195, while UNC-Chapel Hill allocates $250 and East Carolina has close to $500.”
    To me, this sounds like the fees wouldn’t be raised. It would just be the way the total amount is split up with more of it going to athletics. Is that a wrong understanding?
    I think one way to make paying for tickets more appealing to students is to make the whole ticket receiving, getting into games, etc. process easier for those who buy tickets.

  12. RBCRowdy 10/07/2008 at 9:35 AM #

    Technically students have the option to “purchase” tickets (or increase odds of getting a ticket) by being members of the student wolfpack club and attending non-revenue sports. Even though its not buying tickets like other schools, it is an option.

    Personally, I am all for season tickets for students and I cant imagine the demand being too high considering a 4% fee increase causes riots on campus. The leftovers can be in the lottery so as not to discriminate economically.

  13. wufpup76 10/07/2008 at 10:15 AM #

    “And please Dick Baddour. Please promote John Blake to head coach to replace him.”

    If Chief Shears Some Sheep does ever leave then replacing him w/ Blake would be ideal … for opposing teams 😉 … Blake would be the next ‘great’ coach with the initials ‘JB’ at Chapel Hill

    I think TOB can handle the Chief though if he doesn’t find a new reservation to call home …

  14. Pack92 10/07/2008 at 10:42 AM #

    Noah, I don’t think we would even have to say please if the Vols fire Fulmer. There would be an immediate and wholescale rush across the mountains to the hole from Knoxville.

  15. ruffles31 10/07/2008 at 11:22 AM #

    Growing up in Tennessee, I understand where the Vols fanbase is coming from. Heck, my dad has had season tickets there for 35+ years and we went to the UCLA/Tennessee game this Labor Day right after I was in Columbia for the NCSU/South Carolina game. Talk about a depressing football weekend for me.

    Anyway, there has been an undercurrent of anti-Fulmer feelings for the past few years. Anytime they get loud, he would win a few games and quiet them for the most part. It is a very similar situation to what Kentucky basketball dealt with a couple of years ago with Tubby Smith. Both men won a NCAA title early in their head coaching days but never got back to that level. Kentucky won the title in 1998 and didn’t get back to the Final Four in Smith’s last 9 years. Fulmer won his title, also in 1998, and hasn’t been back to the BCS since 1999. He hasn’t won a SEC since 1998, although he has won/tied for the SEC East title 5 times since being head coach. He has lost his last 3 SEC Championship games. 10 years without a SEC title is not acceptable in Knoxville. 2 of the first 3 home games have been under 100,000 in attendance. It hasn’t been like that for YEARS. Granted, the home slate so far is UAB, Florida, and Northern Illinois. But it doesn’t matter. 104,000+ is standard. This is the first year students have to buy tickets to the games. There is a lot of backlash in Knoxville about this. Now, if they were 4-1 or 5-0 compared to 2-3, then this would not be as big of a deal.

    I don’t think the team has fully recovered from losing to a bad UCLA team. Norm Chow picked them apart with his second half adjustments, making his 3rd string QB look like Chris Crane.

    With all that being said, Fulmer has the support, currently, of his boss, AD Hamilton. In my opinion, Hamilton is one of the top 5 ADs in the country, along with the ADs from Wake Forest, Florida, Ohio State, and Texas. He is a very smart AD and knows how to phrase delicate issues in a good light.

    It is good for Fulmer that his next game, Georgia, is on the road. My sister and brother-in-law live in Knoxville. He told me that he has never heard it so bad there as it was after the Florida game. He guesses that 75% of the fans want Fulmer gone. And if I had to guess, assuming he loses to both Georgia and Alabama, he will “retire” at the end of the year.

    And I for one, do NOT want to see Chief Bruce Davis move over from Chapel Hill to Knoxville. I don’t like that man and I definitely don’t want him to be the next coach. That scares me. As much as I would like him to leave Chapel Hill, I don’t want him to go to Knoxville.

  16. basspacker812 10/07/2008 at 11:40 AM #

    I see two things with students having to buy season tickets. One is the opportunity for students to profit from purchases of the tickets with no intention of attending the games. Just what we need, more internet ticket scalpers getting access and less students in the stands.
    Two would be if the students did not buy up all their allotted seats, as in section 5 and 14, would the university opt to turn these seats into LTR seating? Possibly eliminating any seating for students at all, or just a small student seating in a corner?

  17. redfred2 10/07/2008 at 11:50 AM #

    “I just like to be on a level playing field with UNC,…”

    That would be nice LEE, that is IF you were actually talking about what your dead ass is SUPPOSED to be talking about, which is ATHLETICS for crying out loud. If ever even he opens his mouth to make any comparisons of NC State to our close rivals, sports don’t ever enter the conversation, and losing to the baby blues on the playing field is just an accepted way for those good folks who run NC State University. Oh but, you let unc get a perceived advantage as far MONEY is concerned, and MR ATHLETIC DIRECTOR pulls out his little calculator, turns into an accountant, and then starts chirping like a bird.

  18. Rick 10/07/2008 at 1:46 PM #

    “That would be nice LEE, that is IF you were actually talking about what your dead ass is SUPPOSED to be talking about, which is ATHLETICS for crying out loud.”

    IMO I say raise the rates and use this statement as a measuring stick. Every year we compare our selves to UNC and if we come up wanting then fire Lee. He can’t have it both ways.

  19. 66pack 10/07/2008 at 2:05 PM #

    It is pitiful that we hope unc’s fb program sucks so we can compete with them.It would be much better for ncsu to BE great and beat great unc teams.few of you even realize that the opening act for the 1974 SUPER BOWL was bb game between state and MD.Also had good fb team with HOLTZ as coach.Great being a fan at that time.

  20. redfred2 10/07/2008 at 3:31 PM #

    66, those were the days.

    I’ll bet a guy like Lee Fowler would have loved it back then too, that’s back when NC State was actually ahead, if not just “on a level playing field with UNC”.

  21. hai17 10/07/2008 at 3:59 PM #

    I apologize SFN. I must have read too much into this entry:
    http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2008/01/03/forbes-the-most-valuable-college-basketball-teams/
    If our basketball team is making in the neighborhood of $8 million, where is all of that money going? I’m sure the football team AT LEAST breaks even, and in addition the school appropriates some fee money to pay for athletics.

    Also, if the Wolfpack Club money does not get used by the athletics department, then who does it get used by? I’m pretty sure that almost all of the WPC funds get used for NCSU athletics purposes, even if they are not technically part of the revenue generated by the athletic department. I know that most of the WPC funds go to scholarships and capital improvements, but if that is the case then what does the profit made in revenue sports get used for? Our administration costs can’t be that large, and the only place where we should have to pay rent is at the RBC Center (which should already be accounted for as part of the basketball team’s cost basis).

    I realize that without any sort of ballpark numbers it is hard to estimate these things, but I have trouble believing that money is such an issue that it would have any bearing on why we are not competitive with schools like UNC, and it is disturbing to me that Lee Fowler thinks we are dumb enough to believe that this is the case. I just have trouble reconciling the fact that we are supposed to be smart individuals (“red means go” anyone?) yet the NCSU administration feels that they can pull the wool over our (the students) eyes in regards to issue we might disagree with – especially when it involves athletics.

    I’d have no trouble paying for season tickets, as long as I was guaranteed a good seat (I am in the SWPC after all), but knowing our administration, they would set it up so that you only pay for a guaranteed spot in a lottery, as opposed to buying a seat like an alumni would…

  22. redfred2 10/07/2008 at 4:19 PM #

    Those guys really have some nerve/balls.

    If anything, LEE, you and the rest of the underachievers at NC State should be handing out rebates and begging people to come see YOUR product.

  23. highstick 10/07/2008 at 6:09 PM #

    I think we need to try the Vandy model!! No Athletic Director!!!!! We would be considerably better off~

  24. redfred2 10/07/2008 at 7:02 PM #

    Tiny Wake Forest, ACC CHAMPIONS, and in >>> F O O T B A L L <<< NO LESS. I may be dumb, but I’m pretty certain that’s a fairly good indication that’s it’s well past time for a university with NC State’s resources, loyal and generou$ following, to do SOMETHING, in SOME SPORT, SOMEWHERE. I’m about past the point of hearing well intentioned fans/people using words like “almost”, “about”, “maybe if”, and “in time”, over and over again in the hopes of reaching back up to grasp onto NC State’s comfortable and never ending level of athletic mediocrity.

    Remarkably though, the geniuses in Raleigh have come with a plan to ask for more money from THEIR VERY OWN captive audience. It’s like asking people to pay to get on a bus that’s going nowhere, then sitting in the parking lot and repeatably asking them for more and more money, while knowing that “the driver” can’t drive the bus to begin with.

  25. WolftownVA81 10/08/2008 at 11:27 AM #

    When I was a student, the University received my tuition and fees and I had no say. Now that I’m an alumni, I still have no say; but, I no longer am part of the captive audience mentioned above. I did not renew my WPC membership this year and they will get NO MORE $ from me until Fowler is gone. I don’t care if he doesn’t have the full authority to go with his positon. He could at least keep from making public utterances that are a continual embarrassment to the Univiersity. Can you imagine how much fun they must have in Durham and Chapel Hill laughing at the stupidity that comes out of West Raleigh? Our athletic department seems to be made up of amateur administrators and some very mediocre coaches (see win loss records).

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