- It took less than a half for NC State to break Russell Wilson. No way, no how can we risk playing Mike Glennon this year. I don’t care if we have to play Bradley Pierson at QB. Tough question to ask yourselves - how could we justify putting Wilson’s baseball career at risk by letting him back under center with an OL like we have?
- In about 2.5 quarters of play, South Carolina’s starting QB threw 4 INTs and 0 TDs (with a YPA just over 4). He left the game ahead by 10 points.
- Daniel Evans still loves to throw off his back foot. John Elway could get away with that. Connect the dots.
- NC State was in field goal position exactly once (badly missed 49-yard attempt).
- NC State’s offensive line is perhaps the worst unit in Division I. Jake Vermiglio must have pissed in TOB’s coffee mug to be stuck behind this collection of stiffs.
- Harrison Beck has apparently signed up for the Brandon Costner off-season conditioning program.
- My proposed gameplan? Start Beck, and either run or throw a Hail Mary on every play. Maybe we’ll accidentally score a few times, and will at least control field position better.
- On our last 2 drives, NC State did not attempt a pass. And I was very glad that we didn’t.
- If you have hope for the season after tonight, you need psychiatric care.
Speaking of Jake Vermigilo…..did anyone see Andy Barbee (the few plays he got) at center…..damn….how in the hell did Larsen get back in…..Barbee looked great!!!! Maybe we don’t need true linemen playing the line.
Barbee had something going on with his knee or he had cramps…the flavor-of-the-day-espn-bimbo didn’t think it important enough to talk about i guess. But he went off the field fine, just had to be helped, i think it was cramps. DeAndre got cramps too, last i heard, it wasn’t an injury.
Barbee looks like he’s got a sam’s club junkfood membership though.
When Beck came in the game, the ESPN announcers were like “woah, look at all that meat…”
Who was that Jesse Palmer guy, did anyone else see his 6 inch clip on tie??? I was LMAO
Palmer was a QB at Florida under Spurrier.
“- On our last 2 drives, NC State did not attempt a pass. And I was very glad that we didn’t.”
i was pretty sure that i saw beck throw 3 incomplete passes on the last drive. not that it matters. ha maybe those last three passes where my mind gave up and started wishing i had secret service to escort me out of williams brice. some of those fans are nuts….
well last two games 37-0 34-0. thats f-ing great boys, way to lay an egg…
i hate to be that guy who critiques the coaches, but i can think of several third and short opportunities where we would line up in shot gun (snap results in turnover on one occasion and an int on the other) and try two throw the ball when we were pounding out 4 and 5 yards a pop on the ground. why the hell couldnt we just stick to the simple one dimension that we were surviving with. i hate being one dimensional so much, but in this one case why couldnt we just keep pounding it until they stopped. it just seemed to me like they refused to run the ball on the ground on third and short. i understand that evans needs time back there and the shot gun allows for some extra time but geez…..any ideas???
I must say…unfortunately Daniel Evans is the son of one of our own…However, there is not a question that if this kid wasn’t Johnny’s son, he wouldn’t be playing Division 1 football at all. I doubt he’d be playing football…period!
I am absolutely baffled that he was even considered as a starter…obviously they don’t run a defense during practice…because…he would be getting picked there too…unless they are told to take it easy on him…Statistically, he’s got to be one of the worst QB’s we’ve ever had.
The offense doesn’t have a leader and it’s scary…the offense is weak and we learned tonight that this South Carolina team (which isn’t great) made us look like a cupcake and we will be lucky if we win a game all year…at this point I just hope we score a point…the defense looked good early on…but fell apart…the offense doesn’t have a chance
Ismael, sorry I didnt make myself clear. Barbee was in the game in the first hslf as well….Barbee and Vermiglio were in for about 5 plays right before Wilson got hit and we were finally driving the ball into Cock territory. FUNNY WHAT OFFENSIVE LINEMEN CAN DO. With those two and the addition of Crouch that line would have had to have been better.
Paul Johnson had an impressive opener. Granted J-State is no USC but the Jackets did score 41 pts. Looks like this season will be more of the same. TOB was looking for a pot of gold before retirement. The end of his rainbow was NC State!!
Evans looked terrible, winging floaters off his back foot. Defense played three good quarters but wore down/ quit playing in fourth. Beck looked like Pilsbury Dough Boy. Anthony Hill had no impact on the game. Brown ran good but still looked a little tentative at times and still does not look as good as he did 2-3 years ago. Our receivers didn’t fight for the ball, dropped passes etc. Amazing the O line did give our backs some roon to run and SC was playing the run. 20 yards passing in first half says it all. I hope Wilson returns soon, he truely is our best option at QB and we can only hope he grows into the roll.
First: It goes without saying, but I wish nothing but the best for Wilson.
I was proud of the way we hung in there for three quarters in a hostile environment. When your offense couldn’t score on a JV team if it tried, it tends to make things a little difficult. Hats off to the defense. We look to be much improved there.
However, our offense is putrid, and it is putrid in every way. I don’t even know where to start, so I won’t. USC had four turnovers and we didn’t score a point? Not good.
Lastly, what in the hell was TOB thinking throwing Evans in there on the third possession of the game? Had Wilson not won the starting job? Having played the game, as well as the position, it would seem to me that a coach would know a player, a freshman player at that, needs some time and reps to get into the game. I don’t care if he threw two picks on the opening drives, Wilson needed to be in there. If Wilson is able to come back, which I have mixed feelings about considering the safety issue, I sure as hell hope he doesn’t play this card again.
You risk Wilson’s baseball career because he is on Football scholarship and is our best option to win.
We need our offense to find a groove. The running game did not look to bad, but we have to be able to pass the ball.
Our defense looked solid until the fourth quarter, and obviously when you are on the field all night it is understandable to be exhausted.
Honestly…I don’t think we win more than one game this year. Winning one will require a pretty strong degree of luck.
I hope RW is ok and comes back soon. We knew TOB might pull RW out a series just to give him a look at the D from the sidelines. We need more weapons on O, but more importantly the O-line needs help. They had a lot of trouble pass blocking and got overwhelmed by blitzes. I think the coaches are looking for 5 good men up front. Still looking after game one. They’ll get it straight.
I still think Duke and William and Mary should be wins.
How many OL freshmen are redshirted?
The D looked better than I thought. Our D line and linebackers did a great job for 3 qtrs.
The drive RW was hurt on was going pretty well. The running game was clicking and I was waiting for A. Hill to catch one on the backside of their linebackers for a big gain. I still don’t have much of a feel for RW passing but he would have made a difference had he stayed in the game.
How in the world did Daniel Evans EVER get a D-1 scholarship to NC State? My 7 yr old daughter has a stronger arm and her decision making couldn’t be any worse. Without RW Noah’s prediction for wins might be generous.
I said from the get go that the entire season hung on the OL. If a RB or QB is running for their life its hard to get the job done. I think that last night answered the questions regarding our OL……poor is an overstatement.
Redshirt every freshman just like Wake and continue that process….look what it did for the Deacons.
I have to think we can still beat W&M. The alternative is just unthinkable.
Wow. I really hate that the USC fans got to go home feeling good. They were horrible last night.
As for our guys, it was bad but not “1-win season” bad.
The D was solid, particularly on the line. Yes, they are shallow and, yes, they fatigued badly in the fourth but they are a competent bunch. Irving and Young were both excellent. I really hope that Morgan is OK b/c starting a converted walk-on at CBis more than a little scary, no offense Koyal. My biggest complaint was on 3rd and medium-to-long. USC only converted 5 3rd downs but I’ll bet 3-4 of them were 3rd & 6-12. Need to step up there.
On O, goodness, what can you say? Wilson was OK during his brief appearance. He was willing to chuck it OOB when needed, which is a good thing. He’s got feet but I don’t get the sense that he’s the next coming of Randle-El. He also looked really small out there. Seems that he wasn’t hurt too badly. I hope he can get back for Clemson.
After Wilson, you really just have AB and the OL, which did a solid job run blocking. Nice to see Andre sticking it up inside and not dancing too much. He looked strong. OL wasn’t nearly as solid on pass protection or on slow-developing stuff. Seems they can get to their spots but not hold blocks for too long. Bedics & Larson had that “I got the start b/c I sacrificed for the team” feel. Vermiglio was in early and stuck. Obviously, Larson’s snapping is a problem, maybe less so with Wilson back there but still a problem. Hill is back but he looked rusty in his limited ops in the passing game; strong but stiff.
I don’t know how to read the WR’s b/c they never had much of a chance to show anything. Graham didn’t make that big catch (short throw, admittedly) but he was on the field a lot. You have to think that the coaches really like him.
Pierson’s punts and KO’s were surprisingly strong. That going to be OK. Josh had a tough chance and missed, not much to say on that.
Overall, we have something to build on once Wilson is back. Until he gets back, our passing game is a steaming pile and our running game will suffer as we become entirely one-dimensional. Evans has gone off even the mediocre rails that he laid down last year. He looked like a HS Jr out there; weak, slow, scared and, er, not smart. Beck didn’t have any chance but, seriously, who’s happy with him back there? Who’d of thought that we’d miss having Burke available already?
All in all, about what we might have thought going into the game. Bad offense. Serviceable defense. So-so kicking game. A key injury. At least TOB has something to work on this week.
So by saying it’s a Synopsis you are just putting in a word here to invite folks to vent. You don’t actually expect the hordes of people who are obviously coming from message board sites to offer much of anything.
A year or so back before the volume increased we had a majority of viewers read the title, think about it, read the comments others had made, think about it, and then comment. Not so anymore.
Can I honestly read more comments about how USC is not a very good team? Does anyone here believe that their players on defense aren’t very good? Do you think NFL teams will pass on alot of these guys when the time coes up? If you don’t think that defense wasn’t a fine collection of studs then you can’t tell me that you thought the collection we had 3 years ago was very good.
I think South Carolina is a very average SEC team.
Having gone into this game with little to no expectations, I’m actually not that upset with the performance, considering everything that has transpired the last 2 weeks.
Look, we were not a very talented nor deep team to start with, and you loose your best WR, RB, 2 safeties, OG, and backup RB *before* the game and to top it off you lose your starting QB (who the O was built around) in the 2nd qtr and what do you expect?
While Russell wasn’t lighting it up, you could see the potential there, and he clearly has the ability to rack up a few yards on read options and/or scrambles, and he was leading us down the field when he got nailed. We all knew Evans wasn’t the answer, and he confirmed that yet again last night. No big surprise.
The defense was ready to make it a game had Wilson not gone down. They showed some real brights spots, playing stout up front, and intercepting anything that was in the neighborhood. Nate Irving is a stud! Cash and Holmes are tough, and Young got in the backfield a few times. Bottom line, they wore down and I don’t fault them for the offense’s ineptitude.
Incidentially, I don’t fault SC for hitting hard (Gray’s and Neal’s hits were hard and high too), but I do think roughing could have been called once or twice, as ESPN mentioned.
Bad:
* If Wilson remains out, we are screwed (get well Russell!)
* OL is still a huge problem (Crouch?)
* Passing game (Hill?) was a complete non-factor
* Zero offensive playmakers
* Too many mistakes
Bright spots:
* Defense is solid, but needs some rest
* Nate Irving is All-ACC caliber at LB
* Brown looked more physical than years past
* OL run blocking was decent
* Wilson showed some potential
* SC might be the best defense we see all year
inhoc - I’m not saying we can NOT criticize coaching decisions, but its a little unfair to criticize the two plays - the INT and the shotgun snap.
Getting 4-5 yds/carry on 1st and 2nd down with a D whose playing 6 to 8 in the box is a coach’s dream because that means the D will likely bite on play-action on third down, or at least be expecting run - it just came down to the shotgun snap not being executed and then…well…DE happened. If the two worst possible scenarios didn’t happen on those plays at best you may get a first down or a big gain and normally the worst is that you punt.
BTW, Pierson’s avg was 42.7 - that’s actually pretty good and the last punt must have been close to 55 yards with a ridiculous hang time.
RW didn’t pass much, but there was 1-pass the ESPN announcers were pretty impressed with which was the one where he threw it to AntHill on his inside shoulder which was the ONLY place you could throw it to. It was rifled in there and was a thing of beauty.
DE - i was actually surprised but…DE had the same look in his eyes when he started against Central Florida last year…like a little kid who can’t find his mom in the mall. Maybe its just me, but i look at QB’s eyes.
Ditto ChiefJoJo + add that Pierson did a pretty good job kicking.
I understand the desire for things to turn around but when the AD allows coaches to completely dismantle the football AND basketball programs we must understand it will take several years just to get back to the sucking stage.
I think it is fair to say you can turn around a basketball program much faster than football.
Chuck and Herb left the programs in shambles and we now have to sit back and give the new guys a chance to turn things around.
SC will undoubtedly finish behind Florida, UGA, and Tennessee in the brutal SEC East. This does not mean they are not a good team, but it does mean they are nowhere close to an elite team. Their defense is stout. Their offense is abysmal. A Spurrier-coached team without a quarterback that can throw the ball just doesn’t work. They will lose more than they will win in the SEC.
Because we play in the ACC, we should be ok to get a couple of wins. Based on last night’s performance, I think we’d be fortunate to win three league games.
I disagree on one thing: Brown looked good on offense. Despite having no blocking he still went for 101 yards and almost 5ypc against one of the stoutest defenses we’ll see all year.
And while agree with much of what’s been said about Beck, all 3 of his passes hit Hill in the hands and he couldn’t secure them.
I think if we can get Wilson and Eugene back we can at least have a triple-threat on the ground. A good ground game opens up some passing.
I’m also in the minority that thinks the defense actually played well.
203yds of SC’s 369yds came in the 4th qter when our offense couldn’t get a 1st down to give the defense a blow.
A terrible effort but I think we’ll do better…..providing that Wilson and Eugene return.
I am not suggesting it was said anywhere here, but I am tired of the argument that DE can’t do it all by himself. I get it the OL is horrible, but DE does not protect the ball nor his receivers.
A QB has to put the ball where the receiver can make a freaking play. DE was 4-12 and had…zero, zilch, nada…passes that were not one of the following: in coverage, behind the receiver, or severely underthrown. I am worried for our receivers health anytime DE takes the field and my sanity.
Their defense was very good, and the line stunts obviously confused our limited O-line. They were also quite obviously headhunting our young QB and they got what they wanted, Evans in the game. The secondary wasn’t giving our WRs any openings, and they limited explosive running plays. As effective as the first option (Brown)of the read option was in the third, it would have been infinitely more dangerous with Wilson to pressure the corner on the second and third options. I was not disappointed with how he played before the injury, no glaring mistakes.
To call this a one win team seems defeatist and premature to me. Bill and Mary is a win, and they will be able to do some things in games against BC, UNC, Miami, Duke and ECU. I assume some adjustments will be made, and I hope RW will be back sooner than later. Don’t let 13-0 (10 points of that due to TOs inside our 20)game for 50 minutes that stretched late due to fatigue, and against one of the best defenses in college football to boot, delude you.
There was good effort, especially on defense, and we are young. This will be a very different team in October and November, let alone next year. Now we let our solid staff go to work and build on the good while repairing the bad. I said it on the other thread, I’ll repeat it here, we won’t see another defense that stout all year. They were more balanced and more aggresive last night than they were last year, and we will learn from the experience. Eugene was a huge loss, too. He could have played a Brian Westbrook type role in slowing their pass rush last night.
“Connect the dots.”
“-Jake Vermiglio must have pissed in TOB’s coffee mug…
”
“- Harrison Beck has apparently signed up for the Brandon Costner off-season conditioning program. My proposed gameplan? Start Beck,…”
“- On our last 2 drives, NC State did not attempt a pass. And I was very glad that we didn’t.”
Wonderful sardonic humor JB. Which is all that’s left to do.
HEY! In other news, have you heard that Jed is putting together a task force to build more FUHCILITAYS at CF?
I have never been impressed with Ant Hill. Yes, he has size, but I remember far more drops than catches, and I personally think he is way overrated. Everyone talked of him coming back this year and being a stud. I saw the same Ant Hill last night that I saw the previous years.
One other point, when Beck came in, before the announcers started ragging him, the first pass he threw was classic off your back foot fade away pass. I was only half paying attention at that point, but I swore it looked no different than DE. I am wondering if that fade away is something we teach. It was awful. And of course, as Golden mentions above, all three passes Beck threw hit Hill in the hands and he has no completions to show for it.
Lastly, SC had one of the top D’s in the country last year and defeated Georgia, and were in top 5. Injuries hit and they dropped their last 5 or 6 in a row. 10 of those 11 are back. Visorman has some talent, just not the depth to be a #1 team that was shown last year. Those guys we went against last night do have NFL talent.
You could see from the outset that USC’s defense was VERY fast and very aggressive. I feel like they took a fair amount of cheap shots, but there is no denying their experience and talent on defense. Couple that with our make-shift o-line (who I feel like, along with the defense, put on a very brave face as best they could) and the opportunity for failure is sky high.
What we all knew going into this season is that our margin for error is razor’s edge thin. When our Future Legend went down with a scarey injury and Captain Interception came in the game, TOB’s hands were tied. Rightly so, he kept it on the ground and out of Evans’ hands as much as possible. He’s the opposite of King Midas, everything he touches turns to crap.
The first step to pulling one’s self out of a hole is to put down the shovel. We can’t start Evans again. Anyone busy the next several Saturdays?
Yes, USC does have 2 or 3 NFL-caliber defenders on their team. They are still a middle of the pack SEC team, and beat us like a rented mule.
Howlie - that was me, not JB. JB is in Columbia, poor bastard.
well, penalties are down thats a positive. i also like the uni’s, at least we dont look like the freeagin Atlanta Falcons or some CFL team any more.
RW is out for 3-4 weeks and our season is out till next yr.
No need to get carried away on USC’s strengths. Their D is good, maybe very good, especially in the secondary. Their pash rush was also strong but, given our OL history, that’s not exactly saying anything about THEM. Still, USC gave up over 200yds/game rushing last year. They gave up a 100yd game last night against a hopelessly one-dimensional team. I don’t think they are a great D, yet anyway (new DC).
When I say USC was horrible, I mean their O. They gave us 4 INT’s. Gave, literally. Only Irving’s catch req’d exceptional skill (one hander). Their running game did little to nothing for about 3 quarters and, yes, our line/LB’s deserve a lot of credit for that. However, if you’re a serious USC fan you had better be worried about winning games in the SEC East.
Defense really was the bright spot.
SC’s defense was good, real good. To hear the boys in the both talk about it, monster good. Time will tell - but 10 returning starters vs. our offense . . . well, that we moved the ball at all was good. Good chance this is the best defense we see all year. That does give us a window of hope.
Our offense - DE, bless his heart, throws worse then I do and I grew up playing soccer. He was best when he just handed it off.
Wilson didn’t really move us either - and that is troubling. Before he went out did we pick up more then a couple first downs? That first possession, we lost 3 yards! Lets don’t build him up as the savior, or even worse sit around and talk about “if only” because we honestly don’t know what he can do on the field. That being said, hurry back RW!
Most disappointing part about the late 3rd/4th is we couldn’t even just run clock and let the defense rest.
This was a real test, and I was pleased we stayed in this game as long as we did. I can be patient. After all, what other choice is there?
Final two thoughts - Palmer’s tie was such an embarrassment. Why on earth didn’t someone tell him to retie it? I thought it was a clip on too - but you could see the top of his collar. That he played for Spurrier probably explains inability to dress correctly.
Spurrier and the trailer-trash SC fans are a perfect fit for each other.
the D wasn’t bad until they gave out of gas. The running game was ok. The passing game, terrible. Wilson has to come back & the WRs need to step up. Why so few passes to Ant Hill?
GoldenChain… I dunno, but most people I think would agree that (1) Brown looked good (minus the fumble) and (2) the defense played well.
It should have been 0-0 at half if it were not for our offensive collapse (snap, Evans INT). Who wouldn’t have taken that?
The next question is, if Russell can’t play, do we pull the redshirt off Glennon? I mean, we start Evans, and I only see maybe 2-3 wins. Beck, probably not much better. Nobody expected much this year, but we need to show progress as a program.
“Captain Interception” was pretty funny. I have to admit I am crying at the same time cause he actually got to play. Can we just give him a degree (and possibly a razor for him to shave the pubes off his chin) to get him out of here? It feels like he has been here for 6 years.
I don’t think it is appropriate to call the SC fans trailer-trash. They are dilusional though. If you were them you would be happy over a victory as well. Spurrier was not running up the score and simply trying to find a QB. Atleast he has options, something we cannot say.
No question we KEEP the redshirt on Glennon. The starting QB job for NC State should come with a Surgeon General’s Health Warning.
So how’s the bass fishing team look this year? Can Foulup ever get his line untangled!
for you guys who think uSUC is a decent team…watch them play UGA on 9/13.
bottom line.
-everyone is throwing evans under the bus, but seriously. come on. he had nothing to work with. the reason RW got the start in the first place is because he can run for his life better than DE. was that not blatantly obvious to all of you? that misdirection shotgun handoff which consisted of about 80% of the plays we called was designed so we could have either wilson or the RB take it.
-hell that damn play was still getting 4 to 5 yards a pop when evans was handing it off and the knew 24 was going to take it every time.
-there wasn’t even a chance for evans to sit back and be comfortable. he threw one bad int. hhe threw one ball down field that looked good and to me but it looked like it got dropped right in front of out sideline.
- the reality here is that DE never had a fleeing chance. harrison beck or burke or glennon in his SR year would have been able to do much better. we should have kept pounding the ball over and over until we made them respect the run.
-some play action bootlegs MAY have started to work then, but when your a white kid running for your life, the odds are against you
i`m not a huge evans fan, but i`m sure all of you havent forgotten some of the plays he has made in his career this isnt his fault…better play calls on 3rd and short and OL could have been the difference in this game
I don’t think that it matters what USC shows from here. Teams change as the season goes on and you can’t infer too much from the 1st game.
The fact is that they were VERY beatable last night and we didn’t have tools to take advantage.
correction: - the reality here is that DE never had a fleeing chance. harrison beck or burke or glennon in his SR year would NOT have been able to do much better.
Brown looked good. DL looked good. Irving will be a defensive stud by the time he leaves us. USC’s offense was not good enough last night to get a good feeling for the corners and safeties, however I think they showed promise. TOB and the OL coaches are going to have to reassess what they are doing with the OL. Wilson looked to me like he had made up his mind to pass first early on. For him to be at his best, he must be more instinctual. If his gut says run–run. Receivers showed their inexperience. DE just doesn’t have it. Never saw him make a fundamentally sound pass at any time. Beck should be ashamed. ANY freshman that shows real promise should be redshirted and left that way. Even if they have to put up handbills around campus asking for walk-ons midway through the season. We ain’t got it right now. And if you come into a game looking like they did last night with 4 weeks of practice, lord only knows what they will look like with only 6 days.
Eh…I’m not as discouraged as most of you seem to be. I’m taking the long view - looks like our D is leaps and bounds ahead of last year. We actually stopped the run and had guys who could catch interceptoins! And it’s a very young D. We only lose Willis, Holmes, Leonard, Gray, and JC Neal out of all the guys who are seeing any time at all. This is setting up a potentially very good 09 team with either Wilson or Glennon at QB.
And USC might be an “average” SEC team, but that would make them a well above average ACC team. We have 1, maybe 2 tougher games all season (Clemson, USF). If we survive the first 4 weeks of the season with any healthy players, then we’ll have a chance to steal a few games after that.
Anyone who was surprised in last night’s outcome hasn’t paid any attention to the stuff being written here at SFN.
First of all, NC put in new, stricter academic requirements several years ago. We documented the change in rules and how it would have its biggest effect over a two-year period here in 2006:
http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2006/06/18/unc-system-admission-requirements/
you would have to be pretty foolish to think that this difference had no effect on football and basketball recruiting at State and UNC.
Those new requirements took effect just as the bloom was falling off the Amato regime. Combine the two things together and you get several bad recruiting classes in a row.
Guess what? When recruiting classes tank, the overall talent level drops…and quality depth disapears. That was an unstated purpose of an article I did last year when I combined the football roster with the high school “stars” from scout.com
http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2007/10/09/2007-football-roster/
High school rankings are of questionable value when looking at any one individual. However, they serve the purpose that I was driving at….
1) Overall talent is down
2) Alot of the best players on a bad team would be gone this year.
The offense has went through various stages of sucking ever since PR left. Unfortunately that hasn’t changed and wasn’t expected to. The other unfortunate thing is that the defense level is dropping and we will be depending on untested players at a number of positions. I just documented this condition at the first of the week.
http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2008/08/25/dont-forget-the-defense/
Lastly, what is the most likely explanation for moving two DL to the OL? On the off chance that you would have disagreed with me before last night, there shouldn’t be any doubt now.
Bottom Line: TOB’s job will be to move one of the two or three worst teams in the ACC to respectability….and that doesn’t happen over night.
Our OL is terrbile, absolutley terrible. someone is gonna get hurt behind that offensive line…. oh wait. Glennon should be placed in a hyperbarric chamber for the next 11 months. noone in their right mind would throw his 170 lb frame to the lions den. he would last even less time than RW if we burn his redshirt. RW is lucky there appears to be no spinal damage. that was a nasty hit he took (not dirty, although several of the preceding hits were dirty). RW looked ok, but it was tough to tell becasue in 2 quarters he never got a chance to get his feet set. He was constantly running for his life, which as we all know, is the reason he got the nod to start. How in the world did Chuck Amato manage to turn a gator bowl winning program into this collection of fecal matter that we have today. HOly Dog shit Chuck, what in the hell were you doing your last 3 years in Raleigh. If for nothing other than allowing Chuck to stay so long, Fowler should be drawn and quartered. Our admin, especially our AD, is RESPONSIBLE for knowing what is goin on with its programs. and the fact that Fowler allowed Chuck to singlehandedly derail our program for the foreseeable future should not be tolerated.
i also dont see how people can say the D looked good last night. USC’s inept offense hung 34 points on them!!! yes, i know they spent all night on the field and were tired, guess what. i dont care. get used to it, because the offense cant get out of its own way the defense is going to be on the field ALOT this year and they are going to have to do better than they did last night. that being said, there play was improved and i can see some potential there. we just cant afford to give up 3rd and longs the way we did. but if you are looking for something positive i guess it would have to be the Defense or our punting game, b/c we are going to rely on that alot this yr as well.
don’t understand the comments on the OL…I was actually pleasantly surprised by the run-blocking. And wasn’t Russell Wilson’s injury due to Curtis Underwood missing a block and allowing the guy a clean shot at RW? That has nothing to do with the OL play…
Where we are absolutely horrible, IMO, is at wide receiver. How could the university that produced Koren Robinson, Torry Holt, Naz Worthen and Mike Quick be so devoid at that position right now? Did we have some really good WR recruits that didn’t pan out, or is this another one of Amato’s recruiting screwups?
Pre-mature to write off the season. Wait, no its not. Our offense might be worse than Duke’s. Amato is the worst QB recruiter in the country. What a shame because our D is actually impressive.
Unfortunately, a grade III concussion is serious. From what I understand, side effects last for up to a month. Trent Green missed half the season at Miami (yeah, I know he was 37 and had several in his career) Moreover, someone who has suffered a concussion is much more likely to suffer another. Russell is athletic, but he is small. He was a boy among men last night (not as much as D Evans). Wilson took some serious shots (half of them were illegal per se). I personally will not hold any grudges if he decides to concentrate on baseball, where he has a chance to make a career. He is such a super guy. I am more concerned with his health than with our football team. I’d rather not win a game then see a good guy put his career in jeopardy.
With that said, if he does come back, we will win some games.
Note to Glennon. Beef up. We will need you next year!
89…our O Line was decent run blocking.
PackBack…you must put things in perspective concerning our D. Even our #1 D used to get tired and gave up in 4th quarters. No point in exhausting yourself when the game is over. Our D was super and maximized their talent and displayed discipline. However, we are not deep nor overly-talented. Therefore, we need rest and balance. Offense is possibly the worst I’ve ever seen…D Evans and his creepy goatee should do us a favor and pursue other interests.
packalum, sorry, i think now that i have had a chance to digest what happened last night i am even more upset. I tend to fly off the handle and am definitely a pessimist. i just dont see much to build on. if we cant move the ball on Offense, the defense is going to be on the field ALOT. what is TOB going to do about that? he doesnt have ANY options. and yeah, i would say RW is gone for 3-4 weeks. grade III concussion means he lost consiousness. he probably wont even remember the hit. he might never be the same QB he couldve been, or it might not affect him at all and he comes back just as good as he was before. either way, its more uncertainty and we dont need any more of that. Didnt we recruit a QB that TOB converted to a DB or LB… i think his name was something like Audie Cole or something. if i remember he has a decent size frame…b/c if i have to watch Dannie Evans take one more snap at QB i am going to be sick
@Scooter - LMAO at the Captain Interception comment, dead on accurate. Look for much of the same as long as DE continues to make every pass from a 1 and a 1/2 step drop followed by a wing and a prayer. Looks to me like he’s afraid to take a hit, most of those were made long before he was pressured. I cannot imagine what the coaches see in him during practice, from the outside looking in I see no leadership, no fire, and the arm of a 12 year old school girl. At least Beck can misfire w/ some power behind it.
And I’m no expert, but for god’s sake w/ a weak OL playing against an aggressive D can we not throw one freaking screen pass? Bible needs to go back and watch tape of Chow’s offense in River’s first year. Slants, screens, quick outs into the flats. Get your young (or in DE’s case young in stature and skill) qb in a groove throwing easy passes and let him build some confidence. The OL looked good to me when they were moving forward and horrid in pass protection.
Overall, assuming we get RW back or Beck finally realizes his potential I don’t see the season as a total loss based on what I saw last night. Sit DE on the bench where he belongs, find a center that doesn’t snap the ball 4 FEET to the left of the qb, and we will win some games.
I feel your pain. My doctor advised me to lay off State football when Evans plays.
I’m still reminded that Chuck Amato was shocked that he was fired.
inhoc: are you friends with Daniel??? He is outright awful. I could smell his awfulness from Raleigh. The turning point of the game wasn’t when Wilson went out, it was when Evan’s came in. He wasn’t the only problem we have but come on. As some have opined, he is quite possibly the worst QB in college. No one is throwing him under the bus. He took that leap himself many moons ago. His arms look nice and toned though. He’d put up a good fight arm wrestling the women’s softball team.
I’m still reminded that Chuck Amato had to be brow-beaten into taking Nate Irving. That explains everything you needed to know about that doofus.
We’re two years away. The current true freshman OL will have to mature and get a little seasoning before they can be counted on to do any better than what we saw last night.
We’re going to need another full class of people this year and then get one more full class before we’re even CONSIDERING decent depth.
I think South Carolina is a very average SEC team.
Offensively, yes, but they have at least 4-5 guys that will be 1st -4th round picks next year.
I’ll be impressed if either Beck or Evans suits up for the next game. They’d almost have to have a death wish. Hope the defense can learn how to score because that appears to be the only way were going to put points on the board this year. I was impressed with their effort but as mentioned above, they just ran out of gas. I have no further expectations for the season and don’t anticipate more than 2-3 wins.
^^My biggest complaint was on 3rd and medium-to-long. USC only converted 5 3rd downs but I’ll bet 3-4 of them were 3rd & 6-12. Need to step up there.
Ding, Ding, Winner! Haze hit the nail on the head there. Two 3rd and 12’s in A ROW were the same “shovel pass” play. Our LB’s were hitting the gaps hard, but if they weren’t in the right spot, our Safeties were no where to be found. DL and LB’s for the most part played great. A few more stops on those 3rd and longs could have made a big difference. The DE turnover at the end of the half was literally “writing on the wall” and it was a huge momentum killer for the team. We’ll win way more than 1 game this year. If RW comes back soon, and is healthy all year, we could break .500. If he does not and we’re stuck with DE or Beck, well, I hope we beat Bill and Mary.
Since all the negative has been well covered, I will skip that and focus on the good. Nate Irving is a BEAST, as much as I hate to say it(I lie i love saying it), but i called it last week. Willie Young was as good as I knew he could be. I also foresee Jimmual Simmons developing into an excellent player for us if he gets his attitude right (he has the tools) and was proud to see him get that first interception. Andre Brown did very well(Greenville Rose in the house) - if he can run that hard on other Ds he should be about to move the ball on the ground sufficiently. I will let the rest of you guys focus on the negatives - there is more then enough for you guys to share.
Agree with Otis on the Nate Irving and Andre Brown comments. They kept their composure through the RW injury and played really hard throughout the game. They have got to be the two guys we build around this season.
“don’t understand the comments on the OL”
Were we watching the same game?
Does anyone know how to contact ESPN? I want to get Chris Fowler fired. He laughed and joked when our QB went down after previously rooting for the chickens. After a commercial break he switched to phony concern. I turned off the sound after this.
Can we at least fire Lee Fowler now. We have solid proof of his incompetance.
Just two years ago Lee was 100% sure Chuck Amato had it headed in the right direction and could see no need for a change.
Unfreaking believable.
Johnmac, while at it, I cant help but laugh at Palmer’s “tie”. Several have commented here about it, but I also got a chuckle with a coworker. We both agreed the funniest thing all night was the tie, and this was before I read the comments on here. What a doofus - learn to tie a tie before you go on National TV.
i will say that one cool thing about last night was i met david thompson. did any of you other folks see him walking around the state fans section? man what an awesome guy, probably one of the better athletes our program has ever seen…
haha and no i`m not a close personal friend of DE, and its obvious he isnt anywhere close to a top notch QB or even mediocre QB. i certainly would feel less comfortable if that beecher kid was our only option….
-if the offense can begin to somehow click (ol offering protection, being sure that every snap will be good developing trust and gelling…etc) then things should improve greatly. i remember the opening drives against FSU last year where evans marched the team right down the field. ultimately as usual, we made enough mistakes to beat ourselves…which i have no solutions to keep the wheels from falling off the bus, but to me i have seen gleamers of hope in the past
-but anyway, DE is capable of managing a game given the fact that protection and confidence is there (one pick a game is acceptable, even a stupid one, but at least match it with a couple of TDs).
-right now the offense is a Charlie Foxtrot and until they can start executing starting with the snap and the pass protection no one knows how good or bad our pass game is. our pass game nonexistent because it hasnt had a decent shot to even get going. how tall/fast/athletic…effective our qb and receivers are is no factor at this point
-i hope some of you see what i`m saying here. and its so easier said than done, but if by some act of god our offense can get some swagger and confidence things would be better; however i really dont know if thats possible, especially with a center who had his first start last night and 2 former defensive linemen on the O line now….
-some encouraging facts. i think we managed the turnover battle well. i was thinking we would come out ahead, but that last desperation pick we gave up was a gimme. if we get the center shot gun snap down, which is realistic and hopefully an easy fix as the year goes on, theres two less turnovers right there. ANDRE HOLD ON TO THE BALL!
- i think i saw a much more disciplined team out there, less penalties and less prone to turn the ball over….our turn overs against USC are hopefully some house keeping issues that arent major
- we held on to the picks and the defense got itself off the field, yeah some of those picks were absolutely horribly stupid throws by beecher, but it gives the D some confidence. i know i`m rambling here, but those are just some more of my observations….this concludes my dissertation….
Hard to believe I’m looking forward to basketball, but after last night, I am. I’m not sure if anyone has seen the 2009 rankings, but Rivals has us at #5 nationally, and we’re still in the running for Favors, Wall, and/or Adams. We have at least one, probably two more schollys to offer. Things are looking good for hoops.
Like I said preseason, I’ll only be dissapointed with 0 - 2 total wins this season … I think we’ll get 2 wins this season - Really!
Thank God it sounds like Russell will be ok …
The first half had some positives in it … The D played well (I know Beecher had quite a bit to do w/ that, but still) and we didn’t turn the ball over when Russell was in the game … Even with the momementum killing injury to RW and the awful turnovers we were only down 3 - 0 at the half
We all know Daniel’s shortcomings, but let’s not trash him too much … He’s out there trying his best for NCSU … I’m glad we have someone who has the character of Daniel Evans willing to take some tough shots for us … You want someone to trash for having placed us in the position we’re in then look at the previous regime … Daniel’s a great kid and is trying hard for us … We all know he’s not a great qb, but it’s entirely not his fault for us not having anyone else better to run out there … Thank coaches for that
It’s going to be a long year, we all already knew that (or should have) … I believe in TOB and will cheer hard for the kids who go out there and give it their all … Besides Chapel Hole is wildly overrated and I think we could get ‘em … That would make the season
Go Pack
are you kidding? we are preseason ranked #5 for b-ball somewhere? there must be illegal substance abuse involved with the people who did that. thats the most absurd thing i have heard in a long time. i`m expecting our basketball season to be more dismal than it was last year. simply because our problems got worse and worse as the year went on, not better. degand being out was not why we sucked last year, though it did hurt us significantly. the problems progressively getting worse says to me that there is nothing but ineptness with the coaching staff. i am impressed with sids recruiting ability on the positive note….but haha i remember a certain football coach that lived his life solely thru landing big commitments and sucking it up through the season. isnt he an assistant at FSU now?
anyway enough with b-ball…as much as i hate it right now, its football season and i`m going to try to make the most of it. i`ll agonize over b-ball when we start blowing it before we even get to conference play this year….haha i`m bad for being negative, but this is a wonderful place to vent. i still enjoy going to the games…..kinda…..
“-some encouraging facts. i think we managed the turnover battle well” inhoc
You must have watched a different game than the one I saw! The one I saw had us taking the ball from Carolina 4 times and getting zero points out of those TO’s. The game I saw had us coughing the ball up four times which resulted in two Carolina scores; most importantly the 1st two scores.
So I’m not exactly sure in what respect we “managed the TO battle well”?!
“- but anyway, DE is capable of managing a game given the fact that protection and confidence is there (one pick a game is acceptable, even a stupid one, but at least match it with a couple of TDs).” inhoc
Again, DE did average one pick per game last year alright, problem is he had 12 picks and 11 TD’s. Where I come from that’s not two TD’s per pick.
Newsflash: any decent HS QB can manage a game if no one is allowed to get to him. Problem is that at the speed the game is played at the D1 level that’s just not going to happen, even if the OL is good.
the only #5 i see is UNC in recruting for 2008….nothing is out for 09 that i can see….got a link to this thing on rivals?
yeah goldenchain, i agree. BUT if you read further into what i said, if we take care of the shotgun snap problem, which hopefully is nothing hard to correct and should improve as the year goes on, we are plus two in the turn over battle. andre holds on to the ball, plus three, but hey i wont hate on andre for turning the ball over, it happens and he worked his ass off for us last night. i was at the game despite the shitty seats i had. i know its woulda coulda shoulda, but are you honestly sure that you didnt see a more disciplined team out there? that was our centers firs start ever as a center….i`ll give him some leeway for making a couple of mistakes as costly as they were. once again, if problems get worked out on the ling, exponential returns will occur on offense. we will be able to get the ball in the hands of receivers.
last year when TOB alluded to the turnover battle, he was putting it on the D for not taking the ball away. this game they actually took the ball away. unfortunately our O completely ineffective, which has nothing to do with the D. so yes we did improve in the turnover battle because the D is taking it away, and once we get the center to do his thing correctly, i think we might come out ahead in the turnover battle by not giving it back, or atleast close to even
Inhoc, we had four picks, USC had two picks and recovered two fumbles, we are net zero in turnovers not plus two, but even that is much better than last year.
“if we take care of the shotgun snap problem, which hopefully is nothing hard to correct and should improve as the year goes on,..”
If. if. If. If we find a center to snap the ball. If we find a running back that does not fumble the ball when we are still in the game. If we find a receiver to catch the ball. if we find a QB that does not throw it directly to the opposing team…
The fact is bad teams commit turnovers. I’m tired of playing the “if” card. If you want to show me we are a good team, I want to see results, not conditionals.
As for your comments about DE not throwing too many INTs, well whoopity due. He played about a half of a game. Did you decide to factor that into your analysis?
“and once we get the center to do his thing correctly”
That is indeed a concern. But there are a ton of others as well. I don’t even know where to begin.
like i already said. we came out even in turnovers and that is an improvement like you said wufpaxno1. BUT, in the woulda coulda shoulda” world, if we get the shotgun snap problem fixed, +2…..and just read above, i wont restate what i already said…
wulfpack, as far as the center is concerned (one of many problems….agreed)its not a matter of IF. thats pretty much a thing that deals with inexperience and being in a hostile SEC environment. i expect that problem to bet fixed soon. hopefully the questions on O line arent an IF.
i see it as a direct relationship. when the o line play improves, the O will move the ball…..agree?
“but anyway, DE is capable of managing a game given the fact that protection and confidence is there (one pick a game is acceptable, even a stupid one, but at least match it with a couple of TDs).”
He’s capable of managing some games. His confidence is easily shattered. Last night, he never had it. If he plays the way he did last night, there is no purpose in playing him. Go with Beck. You’ve got to have a swagger and confidence - right now, DE doesn’t have it.
This game was lost early in the first possession of the 2nd half. We were just an Andre Brown breakaway from a lead that USC may not have been able to overcome (7-3).
I thought the OL did a decent job run blocking. Clearly, when Russell went down things changed. Making it doubly frustrating - we were finally moving the ball when this occurred. After the injury, we never moved it again.
Before the injury, while his #s stunk - Wilson was managing the game effectively. He was throwing it away a lot - not making any mistakes.
thats where the dual threat comes in. he was able to make that D respect him just a little bit not alot with his legs. i agree choppack…
i was also surprised at the success we still had running that handoff up the middle multiple times in a row after the injury when they knew full well that andre was coming right at them. evans sure as hell wasn’t going to fake it and run with it himself. that shows that the line was doing something right at least….
i dont think any QB would have had confidence behind that line last night though
an early lead would have really taken them out of the game i think, they were on their heels backed into a corner on the drive that wilson went out…
as the game wore on, some of our old tricks started showing up, turnovers and penalties, which early on weren’t present. No doubt DE sucks and our defense was way overworked, but I was disappointed to see a little reversion to things that I associate with our old coaching regime and general lack of discipline. I believe we’re on the right track, but it is a long track, I still have faith TOB will turn us around, but it’s sure hard to watch us get our asses handed to us on nat’l tv… in high def
heres to a speedy recovery for RW and thank God it wasn’t more serious
–Chris Fowler sucks
Here’s the link to Rivals “Recruiting” Rankings for the 2009 class:
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=842928
I think good things are on the horizon.
I see posters trying to put the RW injury on Underwood. It looked more like a read by RW, as he pulled the option and then cut up from the optioned backside end, who was not fooled by the fake. The front side end was the responsibility of the tackle you see chasing the DE into the backfield as he levels Russell, not Underwood.
Did you guys see Daniel Evans’ “kick-save” on that bad snap at the end of the first half? That move prevented the ball from going into our end zone for a TD which allowed us to lose by 34 points instead of 38 points. Thank goodness Evans was there and not just any random QB. HE HAS SKILLS!
^
then he should play soccer instead. maybe it’s his calling.
I don’t think i can blame the guy anymore for sucking so bad though. at some point, you just have to question the coaching staffs’ decision to play him. he can’t take a hit to deliver a good pass. he feels the pressure, starts backing up, and throws a weak pass off his back foot with that wet noodle arm of his. and it’s been this way for 3 seasons now. he just can’t allow himself to take punishment to complete a pass. and that’s selfish of him, because i am willing to take the punishment of watching god awful (i mean worse than american idol awful) football to support my alma mater.
just put a DB at quarterback and run the spread option. they already have worked on some spread principles.
McPete - I think they are probably wondering if the QB we saw in 2006 vs. BC, FSU and WF and in 2007 vs. ECU, UVa, Miami - and the first few minutes of the UNC game will show up. This guy has done well in the past. He’s led State to some victories. But it’s pretty obvious right now that not only does DE get down on himself, but the team effort suffers as well when DE struggles.
At least Evans does things right during practice. I don’t think that’s the case w/ Beck - but everyone’s sake, we may be forced to give him a chance.
YEAR CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK
2005 0 0 0 0.0 0.00 0 0 0 0
2006 163 307 1843 53.1 6.00 41 6 11 14
2007 194 339 2030 57.2 5.99 55 12 13 22
2008 4 12 37 33.3 3.08 19 0 2 1
Does anyone see a pattern? I mean he’s getting better, but that’s just not going to cut it here…this is football and we aren’t here to make friends, we are here to win games. 18 TD and 26 interceptions is not the sign of an up and comer, nor a relief QB…the offense is soooo bad it’s scary. We are not here to bash, but you can’t argue with the numbers…they are plain and simple and they speak the truth and tell you what’s really going on. Hopefully the defense will learn how to block for the interceptions that we might can get and we may can score some points this year.
Sorry about that…I formatted the previous comment, but this does it’s own thing…just google the QB’s name and stats and you’ll see what I am talking about…18 TD’s and 26 Interceptions…
I would seriously consider putting an athlete back there (DB,etc.) and just snapping the ball direct for a triple option play to either side on every down. We may beat W&M with DE at QB, but I think the scouting reports have caught up to him, and we’ll have a tough time beating anyone else until RW returns. Beck should lose his scholly as out of shape as he is….
Does anybody know the possession stats? How long did our D have to stay on the field vs. Carolina’s D? (I love referring to the USC as “Carolina” cause it pisses the Holes fans off so much.)
The difference in the game was not “We suck” or Carolina was a very good team. The difference was their back-up QB was a starter who in some opinions should have been out there all game. I won’t argue against the remark about the execution of the delay pass to the RB that bite us 2 or 3 times.
Someone tell me, why is it the when we don’t play well, our O line sucks and when our opp doesn’t play well, their QB sucks and we were given gifts. When their QBs had time, they threw well. We pressured his ass until our D wore out in the 4th quarter. By the way old time coaches have been winning games against lesser talented teams since long before some of you pups we just a gleam in your old man’s eye.
Nobody mentioned Robby Leonard. I saw his number quite a few times. Not bad for a first game at a new position.
Do you doomsdayers remember the shellacking VT took at LSU before they went throught he conference like a dose of salts. Yeah, I know, it’s Carolina, but they took a 45 point pounding.
Regarding the “accident” where #83 came in late and put a full force knee to Wilson’s head, maybe he was checking out the cheerleaders and didn’t see RW’s head. The follow-through on the knee almost took his teammates head off as well. No attempt to hold up what so ever. If he wasn’t the same dirtbag that had the late hit on Wilson earlier, I might think Maybe, it was accidental. We put Beecher out with a clean hit with a shoulder at stand up height. How many times have you seen defenders hurdle or dive over a helpless player to keep from injuring them. All he had to do was dive over the pile.
^ I think it’s absurd to even speculate that the knee was intentional. It was a bang-bang play and nobody wants their knee slamming into anything unnecessarily. It’s a good way to get yourself hurt.
i think DE might be the best one to have behind center this year - i sure as hell don’t want to see any more good ball players suffering behind our O-line this year
What is it with Danny Evans? Has he gone Bohemian this year? He’s got that Maynerd G. Krebs (or Cheech Marin) bit of hair growth on his chin.
On the sidelines, he looked like he was a deer inthe headlights which is similar to his start during the first game of the year against UCF in 2007.
^ I think it’s absurd to even speculate that the knee was intentional. It was a bang-bang play and nobody wants their knee slamming into anything unnecessarily. It’s a good way to get yourself hurt.
So was the late hit on Wilson earlier a bang-bang play. How many instances of defensive ends do you know of who go into a pile-up knee first. Athletes have tremendous control of their bodies. The only thing absurd is your thinking that the dirty, late-hitting scum-bag hit Wilson in the head hard enough to knock him out AFTER he was already down was “accidental.” Are you one of the StateFans experts who never suited up for a contact sport? That is the only excuse I can see for your naivity.
Any reports on tonight’s game? I’m kind of worried, Guelph.
I hate to say it, but we only have 80 or so plays. It doesn’t take a defense much to know what the options are for us in certain formations.
Until we have a more complex offense than BC used, we aren’e going to be very good.
I find it ridiculous that our Oline can block better. Why do so many teams with lesser talent at least look like they know how ot block.
Dear Primo, the number of plays in the quiver doesn’t really matter. Execution is the key. And it is quite clear the Pack has a lot of work to do. Plus, not having your #1 tailback (Eugene) available really hurt. I realize the O-line was having trouble holding out their 300 pounders, but at some point you should be able to figure out how to block those guys. Did you see them try a draw play or screen pass?
It was really sad to see the offense floundering around last Thursday. Essentially they are the same team as last year I believe? To see how they have regressed is disappointing. Makes you wonder what they worked on in spring practice and then fall camp.
I’m 54 years old and have been coming to State games since I was 5 or 6. There have been some really good teams and great players over the years but more often than not it seems that State has always been in some form of a rebuild. We haven’t had a coach like TOB who wanted to come to Raleigh and stay, not use the State job as resume builder.