As we wait for football to heat up, it’s as good a time as any to analyze the coming basketball season. Over the next few weeks, we will analyze the logical rotation and depth chart, based on position. We analyzed the point guard position last week. Next is what should be the Pack’s weakest position (unless Degand isn’t healthy) - shooting guard.
At first glance, this might seem a bit counterintuitive - after all, NC State returns a senior who has started almost every game at the position for the last two seasons (absent a few dreadful games trying to run the point in Atsur’s absence). But Courtney Fells is most definitely not a guard - at least at the ACC level.
I don’t believe it’s hyperbole to label Fells as the worst passing guard that I have ever seen start at the ACC level (outside of senior day pity starts - and maybe not even then). His passes are lazy, and his instincts are horrendous. Making matters worse, he has a tendency to get into a mental fog and completely stop moving without the ball. Especially with poor creators like Javi and MJ at the point, this ground the offense to a standstill. Even Fells’ defense started to slip - although he often shut down the opponent’s top guard for 15-20 minutes, he would just as frequently lose focus and allow his man to explode late in the game.
So, we have to make some strategic decisions. We have already dictated that we will leave Farnold Degand at the position where he can have the most success - PG. Now, we do the same with Fells, treating him solely as a forward. That’s the easy part. What’s hard is finding another credible option at the 2.
As the Pack’s season swirled down the toilet last February, Trevor Ferguson started to play. It was perhaps an act of desperation, but certainly called for. And Trevor responded by busting his ass every minute he was on the court. Sometimes he was good, sometimes he was bad. But he always gave max effort, and showed flashes of a reliable outside shot. He has trouble creating shots for himself, but perhaps he could feed off the chaos created by Degand’s speed. Ferguson’s lack of quickness is a significant defensive limitation, and he is not a good secondary ballhandler. However, with Degand on the court (who is a plus defender and doesn’t need help bringing the ball up the court), Trevor’s liabilities could be minimized. Ferguson is tall enough to at least get a hand in a shooter’s face, which is better than nothing. More importantly, his passing (which had been on the Fells level) has significantly improved with added confidence and experience. Because of his effort, he also runs the floor reasonably well (and I don’t think speed is a problem for him - just quickness).
Julius Mays is the other possible candidate to start - but it is very dangerous to rely on a fringy “high major” recruit to contribute much as an underclassman. One only needs to look at Javi’s uneven performance last year for proof. [NOTE: Yes, I know you all just love Javi - but how many games did we win with him playing a significant role?] In any event, I would prefer to see Mays paired with Javi, as Mays hopefully will be steadier as a secondary ballhandler (which Javi needs). CJ Williams is more of a combo swingman (that sound like Fells to anyone?), and is at least as fringy as Mays. MJ has a slow, awkward shot, and is a disaster with the ball. I suppose Simon Harris could at least go in and hit people, but he’s even more of a forward than Fells.
Still, Sidney Lowe and staff must resist the temptation to play Fells at guard, even for a minute. The SG position will be weak no matter what, and shifting Fells or Degand would cause a chain reaction weakening the team elsewhere - without solving the problem.
Who should start? Trevor Ferguson, by default. He has experience, and seems to best complement Degand’s game. It’s hard to imagine a limited athlete like Ferguson playing such a significant role on an NCAAT-caliber team, but he’s the Pack’s best option (and we are not an NCAAT-caliber team). It also sends a message to the more “attitude challenged” that effort will be recognized and rewarded at NC State.
What should the rotation be? Based on his defense, Trevor could log anywhere from 20-30 mpg, with 25 being the likely outcome. Backup SG is anyone’s guess. We imagine that Julius Mays would get the first crack at it (especially when Javi runs the point), but he might not be ready. CJ Williams is a similar unknown, but probably even less likely to be ready, especially considering the obligations required as a secondary ballhandler. The default choice would be Marques Johnson, who would at least be able to play passable defense. One would expect him to be a complete cipher on offense, though - and it’s hard to produce offensively with a black hole at the 2.
Position Grade: D-
Fells may be a bad passer but I have a hard time believing he can’t be coached to be at least a fundamentally sound passer. Of course, he’s made it this far without learning so, who knows.
I personally don’t believe he’s an inherently bad passer. I think he’s just a little lazy and unmotivated. Why whip a crisp pass when a I can just toss it over there…whoops, picked off.
Everybody talks about the point but this is the weakest position in my mind.
Let somebody turn the ball over, let them miss shots, let them dribble it off of their feet, as long as they do SOMETHING CONSISTENTLY, besides consistently standing in, and consistently watching from, the corner, then it will be a major improvement over what that position has provided over the past few seasons.
so not only do we not have an effective point guard, we are a black hole at the shooting guard… great.
Fells falls into the category of athletic freak that plays ball rather than a solid basketball player, so his lapses are an effect of that–something the structure of Herb-ball helps mask.
With Grant and Hickson gone, and no major recruit coming in, it’s going to be important what kind of impact folks like Mays and Williams have. They may offer a much needed upgrade in team quickness, and might make that desperate glance down the bench by Lowe a little bit more bearable. Dang, we need some upper-tier recruits and quick. Ryan Kelly, Derrick Favors, John Wall, Lorenzo Brown, come on down!
If Trevor is getting anything more than spot minutes it means we have thrown in the towel on the season. I like him but he is just not capable.
Why is it assumed that T-Ferg is a “limited athlete”. I have thought and still think a lot of that is perception due to his pastey white skin and bright red hair. I think he’s at least an average athlete. Regardless, if John Schyer and Matt Causey can have good seasons in the ACC, then i don’t see why T-Ferg doesn’t start for us next year.
For the record, I think Courtney is a good player and has consistently improved each year. Most notably his shot improved dramatically last year. I agree his ball handling and passing skills are poor, but he should be on the floor.
Fells will get some time at the 2G spot this seaon. I think Mayes is better than his rankings & will get some PT there also. Fergie & Javi should split the rest.
Help is coming, the ‘09 & ‘10 classes are shaping up nicely, be patient.
“Limited” does not equal “horrible.” I’ve watched him play - he just doesn’t have the quickness or strength you see from a typical ACC-caliber guard. Hell, I said that he’s plenty fast, and runs the floor well. If he was more of an athlete, he’d be a much better defender. He gives max effort, and pays attention (unlike Fells).
Trust me, Fells will play. Not to steal from the next entry…but who the hell else is capable of playing major minutes at the 3?
Fells did indeed improve as shooter, and showed some good rebounding instincts. Moving to a wing forward slot could maximize his strengths and camouflage his weaknesses - assuming he’s willing to pay attention and give more consistent effort, we could finally see his performance match his potential.
If Fells could be coached into a decent fundamental guard, it would have happened by now. He is a rising senior, after all. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. It’s time to turn the page on Fells as a guard.
Do not expect any immeditate help from CJ Williams. He has some potential but is not ready to play at the ACC level.
Fells has had two different coaching staffs try and teach him to play smart basketball. At this point, we can be assured it is not the coaching.
I’m hoping Marques will surprise us - maybe give us some time at the 3 too. Hopefully, he’ll show some decent offense that he was too afraid to last year - or maybe he was just too busy trying to follow the “whistle”.
Ferguson did play some good minutes for us last year. However, unless he continues to improve, we’ll be lucky to be NIT team w/ him at the 2. If he does continue to improve, I think he’ll be OK that position. I think he actually got a lot bit bigger physically last year. If that continues, he should actually be able to hold his own at his position this year defensively.
I’m also hoping Mays will surprise some people too. If he does, I think we’ll be a quicker smarter team.
And yes, team quickness, outside shooting, passing, ball hanlding etc will all improve if Fells can be moved to the 3 spot.
Anybody who doesnt beleive fergie is at least a halfway decent should look at his highlight videos on youtube. He was actually pretty nasty back in high school-im probably too optimistic about this but i think he definitly has potential..
“Help is coming, the ‘09 & ‘10 classes are shaping up nicely, be patient”
the 2010 class is shaping up nicely so far, but we have one 2009 commitment from a guy who barely cracked top 150 lists. let’s not count our chickens before they hatch with those other guys i’m sure you’re alluding to.
I agree w/ Trevor at the 2 as well … and, with respect to BJD - I think we may be underselling Trevor a bit
I thought his on-ball defense late last season way exceeded what he had previously showed … I also give fair marks to his passing skills, so long as he’s not trying anything fancy or cross-court (our entire team seemed to suffer from “terrible decision pass” syndrome last season) … In the UVa game, Trevor seemed the only one capable of making a low post entry pass … If Trevor’s confidence continues to rise, he has a sweet stroke … If we could ever have Fergs, Fells, and Horner all “on” at the same time … but maybe that’s wishful thinking
Ball handling and quickness are certainly shaky, but I think Trevor can be an average (hopefully better) 2 guard in the ACC
^ I acknowledged his improved passing and outside shot (both functions of confidence, I believe). Still, I think his evolution is more likely to be towards a “nice” player that doesn’t hurt us, rather than one opponents fear will beat them.
IIRC, Ferguson played against VERY low-level high school competition, which didn’t prepare him very well for the speed of ACC play. He is catching up in that regard, but I think his “youtube” athleticism looks deceptively good based on caliber of athletes around him.
I like the idea of Ferg and Degand. The defensive liability that Ferg represents can be masked with zone sets, the problem is he isn’t the only defensive liability. Mays should get 10-15 minutes, and if Degand or Javi have improved their outside shooting, MJ can be effective 10-15 minutes at the 2. He showed he could hit floaters when he was able to get penetration. Williams is a scorer/slasher and he should be a 3, but since we have no legiotimate backcourt threats he may have to spend some time there if none of these other solutions succeed.
Best case scenario is that Mays is this years Jeff Teague, they are similarly rated from the same state, and Fells excells at the three. Ferg ahd Williams pick up 10-20 from game to game and we are a bubble team.
Worst case Mays is another miss and teams focus their attack at Ferg so Fells has to play 2 for defense. We battle UVa for the basement again.
After last season, attitude sure should count for a lot. Tervor demonstrated, as you say, a real desire to play. Too many folks did not. If that problem, team-wide, isn’t corrected this season, you’ve got to figure Lowe is in trouble. I can take loosing if we actually show up. But if we come out lead footed, wishing we were back eating pizza and playing WII, I just loose my mind. I don’t want to break my tv.
D- is so depressing! That’s what I give students when I think they’ve tried hard, even though the grade book says they failed. Still, better to be realistic then irrationally hopeful. It would be nice going into this season expecting nothing and get to celebrate a good surprise. Can we, as wolfpackers, actually pull that off?
^ Very spot on, Beez. I initially graded this position an F, but didn’t want to look like I was being overly critical of Ferguson.
Well, if Fells doesn’t start at the 2, he sure as hell will be the starter at 3. (as I see you might be alluding to on the next piece)
He might be a weak passer, but his shot last year seemed to be right on at times, especially from outside when we needed it. Granted, we didn’t look good as a whole last year, but Courtney had his moments. I don’t think he is as bad as a player as this made him sound……but I agree the spot on the floor needs help.
I have never seen Julian Mays or C. J. Williams play thus have no idea how they will do next year. However, we took commitments from both players (one in Oct. 2006, the other in Nov. 2006), a full year ahead of the signing date for the 2008 class. If neither can help us much next year, I will be very disappointed. I give the coaching staff plenty of slack regarding Javi, Johnson & Degand because of the ridiculous timing of Lowe’s hiring but these two players were evaluated and taken very early in the process. If they can’t play, it will be very troublesome to me. I am not saying they have to be great but I would hope that they perform at a level higher than their rating.
Agreed Sw0rdf1sh, he did, but I think if you’ll revisit I think you’ll find that most of Fells’ major scoring efforts came long after the game had already been pretty much decided. He seems to have a knack for coming alive when we’re already down, just enough to keep our interest and get our hopes up, then he fades on out when it matters.
As far as Trevor Ferguson goes, I have said all along that people just need to back off and give him time. That he would have some kind of a positive impact in a Wolfpack uniform sooner or later. I don’t really know how solid he may be as a player before his time is up, but if he ever had/has the luxury of some other consistent perimeter scoring threats on his team, then I think everyone would be loving his shooting skills, and maybe even his passing skills as well. He’s not going to go out and take over the game from the onset, but nothing has ever developed around him to allow him to reach any kind of comfort level or to play HIS game. And like everyone else has already noted, he hasn’t shown much of an ability to create his own shot on this level just yet either. But I’m still thinking that he can play and be effective, though it may be somewhat old school and in an unorthodox kind of way compared to today‘s game. If you get a chance next time you watch a game in the RBC, or in person anywhere the Pack is playing, concentrate on Ferguson in pre-game warm ups, he can definitely light it up when given proper space to get his shot off.
redfred2, just a couple of years ago it seemed like none of our players could miss during warmups…. we miss you Evtimov and Atsur..
Two Words-Clayton Beard.
fells is lights out in crunk time….
Let me get on the Ferguson bandwagon as well. First his passing is better than average because he actually anticipates and lets the pass go while the player is getting in position to catch it. He doesn’t think first. He is also basketball smart.
Let me compare his athleticism to an ex Pack player - Engin Atsur. he is a better athlete than Atsur, both in speed and quickness. He is not at Atsur’s basketball IQ - yet. But Atsur guarded quicker people - including point guards - even with an injured hammy.
I also want to point out the ACC. Can someone name the shooting guards that are extremely athletic? I think the SG position maybe generally be the most nonathletic in the ACC. And didn’t he do well against McClinton in the tournament game? With positional defense - and with a PG and a SF who can defend their position - Ferguson may show the instincts to make him a defensive “plus” rather than a “minus”. Also with Degand at point and Fells at SF, we have an offense who will either prevent double teams or could punish double teams.
As we go through this position analysis I hope we remember that it is as much about team match ups and mismatches. I chose to look at best case (it’s summer … I could get depressed later). Let’s say Ben gets the space to operate at the high post, and Brandon can play against “4″s again, who he can take outside and play in space. Fells can play outside and drive and Ferguson and Degand can hit open shots. Pass out of the high post to options in each players scoring zones.
It sounds as if T-Ferg is the guy at this point. There seems to be no other logical explanation.
Perhaps after the last game of last year he knew THIS and has a lot of work in the off season to greatly improve his game.
I guess for now, hope is the best four letter word we can prescribe. I know some on this blog are very high on this kid and as far as flat out effort is concerned, I will admit, I like what I see. I’m not discounting other skill sets he has but I’m just a little hesitant to get too excited.
sf59-Do you mean crunk as in… get crazy and drunk!
WHOA NOW, slow down there hball57! You’re sounding like this team might be Final 4 material or something. I know it’s summer, and today was a nice day and all, but let’s not start getting too OVERLY excited about BB just yet.
So, which is it tonight, the mild mannered Afterglow, or the risk taker, the take no prisoner’s, AfterglowXP!!!
Unfortunately, both are going to have to go to bed. I… ah, we, have an early day tomorrow.
^^^WIMP!
GOOD NITE!
LOL AG or AGXP, whoever typed that!!!
Herb[sorry for saying his name]’s offense was ‘counter-intuitive’ with all players playing ‘inside-out’: guards posting up, and big men acting as primary ball-handlers and shooters away from the basket.
A number of pro teams take the ‘counter’ approach, and we still have the ‘counter’ players in our system. It’s not a liability, just an opportunity to ‘blend’ the ‘old’ and ‘new’ system back and forth while we’re in ‘transition’ to Sid’s style… and something Sid did well with the high post O in Year 1.
Which is all to say, IFFFF Degand is healthy and really ready to go, PERHAPS we must wipe out the notion of ’shooting guard’ from of our mind for a year.
IFFFF Degand can get it up quickly, alot of O is generated instantly there.
IFFFF the other team gets back [& they always do in the ACC] then Degand can get it to bigs Ben & Brandon [Smith, Harris, etc.] to initiate the O… and the other players can clear out to the weak side, with Degand running pick and roll with those two bigs. That leaves two weakside players to crash-rebound and receive the ball for ’spot-up’ shots that don’t require them to either do alot of dribbling or to create their own shots [assuming their defender is forced to double to shut down the O on the 'strong' side of the court].
THEREFORE, perhaps we need to ‘conceive’ of this ‘transition year O’ as having a speed-demon PG; twin wings; & twin bigs. ^I think the above analysis proclaims as much^.
That’s O.
——–Now, the D….
THEN, the question is which of the wings can guard the opponent’s two guard? I think Fells can take that on… and our other many combo ‘unguards’ can be on a competitive learning curve to see which wants to assume that D-specialist role [or we do it by committee].
That’s our only hope, as I now see it.
redfred2-
It’s summer … why not? I refused to have negative thoughts in the summer!
I think we will be (1) better than last year and (2) competitive. I always go back to this: if we split our last 8 regular season games instead of going on the losing streak, we would have been 19-12 coming out of the tournament. My point is that it doesn’t take a lot to have a much better season.
hball57-one thing we have going for us is-I think in general, we have lowered our expectation so much that any improvement is going to seem great.
Hopefully last year left such a bad taste in every player and coaches mouth that all are working much harder in the off season on the things that were lacking last year.
As much as I’d hate to say it, it was and probably still is a learning experience for Coach Lowe which shouldn’t EVER be the case on an elite level. This probably affected everyone on the team in one fashion or another. But it’s the reality and maybe Coach Lowe will pull it together; after all, everyone has to learn somewhere-you just hope it’s not YOUR team.
In any regard, I do believe you’re right that we will be better. I have a degree of reserved optimism and think our team will do well and believe (maybe I’m becoming a Kool Aid drinker) that a player like Ferguson will turn some heads. You can’t ever tell what motivates someone or causes them to turn that proverbial corner. Some come out of nowhere, flooring the nation. Others, like Atsur who are blessed with a high basketball IQ develop their game through refinement and perfecting fundamentals. Other’s are just freak of nature phenoms!
By default, Fergy is probably going to be the SG and by default, the team will probably play better and who knows, perhaps by default, we’ll kick some ass and take some names.
Either we’re (we as fans) are either insane (or) are imbued by V’s spirit in that we don’t ever give up.
I think Mays will get the start over Fergie. From everything we know, the kid is a combo guard who moves well without the ball. A SG that can get open without the ball???? Novel concept indeed! Also, a SG that can help Degand handle it is much needed. No hate on Fergie, but is not the short term and for sure not the long term answer. Mays gets the start as a freshmen and I wish him luck! He has a long ways to go but we are due for nice suprise!
Moving Fells to the 3 has the potential to be a COMPLETE DISASTER!.
Really.
Minutes per game @ SG
CF: 22 min.
MJ: 9 min.
TF: 6
Mays/CJ mop up 3 minutes on avg.
My reasoning is simple. Whether Fells is at the 2/3 spot is moot. They are one and the same position with the collection we have right now and the offense we are forced to run (The best bulk of the minutes that will play small forward opposite Fells fall under another day).
There is this myth that floats around that we will become more of a “up-tempo team” under Sidney Lowe. Until he gets team defense concepts (and/or players) that create TO’s, block shots and clean the boards then you will never have an up-tempo team.
Fells has the most to offer at the position nite in and nite out. Degand is a combo guard and should slide over part of the time when JG or Mays play PG, but Lowe will play it safe and give all of his minutes strictly at PG.
MJ should be given another chance to step up again at this level and will at SG I believe. He was too solid a player as a prep, someone Bruce Pearl saw potential in, to give up on him like we so often do in these parts.
I’m not discounting TF, but I think we need a player in the half court who is physical and confident in his mid-range game. With GG gone we need to have our SG take the dribble at the defense, period. CF looked like he was on the verge of making the commitment towards this last season but fell(s) in love with the 3 pointer after he started getting hot.
With Fells playing SG we obviously get an improvement on the grade of D-. Bump it to C- so we can stay Acadmeically Eligible.
“Moving Fells to the 3 has the potential to be a COMPLETE DISASTER!.
Really.”
It could be, but we’re gonna see a lot of “3-guard” line-ups for us on the floor next season … I think Fergs should get a lot of those minutes, but we’ll see how it plays out
Moving Fells to 3 creates an opportunity for both the 2 and the 3 positions to be worse than they have been. If you leave Fells at the 2 at least that position is the same or better than last year.
We need a summary thread at the end of this “positional analysis” topic to talk about all the postions at once. Talking about moving Fells to the 3 makes me want to talk about the 3 and the 4.
In my opinion, you play your best 2 guy at the 2 spot. Our best 2 guy is Fells. Not to mention he’s the best defensive guy we have. Then have T Ferg play backup.
This thought line not taking into acccount any freshman contribution.
there is no way Fells plays less than 30 minutes a game.
be patient on the ‘09 class, things look great with several top players.
Howell, Favors, Kelly, Brown, etc…
Landing Kelley would be so sweet. It could really bolster our position in recruiting in three major areas.
1: We get the local big. Randolph stung some I have to admit (getting Walker for ‘08 would have totally changed our outlook this year), and there have been others. Ced aside, we have failed more times then succeeded in landing the big in (or anyone position that matter) our back yard. Got to do better!
2: He looks skills ready, not a project like Baciu or other bigs landing elsewhere in the ACC. Best of all he will stick around and be a pillar for a team to build around
3: He could send a message that State is a great academic institution, which we all know. Even the bumbling bureacracy cannot stop the fantastic professors and academic drive of the majority of students here. Kelley has been thought to lean towards the Davidsons and WF of the spectrum because of the academics; if he chose here it would send a nice message!
Back to the topic, sort of. Can we pencil in Lo Brown at SG for ‘09? (I know, verbal, LOI, test scores, ect.) With TF, Mays, and CJ coming back it will be increbrible to see the team take the transition in stride, allowing a gifted athlete to start from the get go w/o all this baby talk of feelings hurt.
I think we’ll know when Brown says. People we’re surprised when we landed JJ Hickson (I think everyone thought he was going to Georgia-I’m not certain on that). Personally, my gut says we’ll land Brown. If I had to bet on it, I would NOT say our odds are good with Wall-my belief all along is that he will choose Memphis. As for Kelly, I don’t have good feelings their either but, it would be sweet. When it comes right down to it, nothing is for certain and speculating too much could result in depression.
Actually, it was Favor’s I was thinking about, not Kelly.
Obviously we favor the Hot’lanta blue chip. He seems as near a can’t miss first year player as they come (maybe even more then Wall since there is a outside shooting question there). We can disuss that more when the frontline analysis comes along, and like you said recruiting is only self depreciating in witnessing at the fan level.
On topic, what are the thougts of the SG position in ‘08 specifically on the D end. It is perimeter defense that we need to improve in fathoms if we are to get our hopes up on consistently seeing quality basketball. If our dribble prevent defense were a deep sea diver we would get the benz if we ascended to “average” depth.
I’m crossed on whether Fells’ length poses more problems to shoot over or if he can create more havoc contesting shots in the lane and attacking the defensive glass. This is one area that I think I could completely agree with the author; that as a “forward” Fells may give us help in getting a bigger, stronger frontcourt.
Still, if the guards keep getting blown past it really doesn’t matter who is around the hoop. Whether it’s Fells, Hickson, Favors or Shaq, you need atleast a little help preventing the dribble drive.
I’m 99% Brown is coming. Favors is 50/50. Wall, probably not. Kelly, probably not. Howell, looking very good so far. In good shape with Braswell, Robinson, Wilson, & others. Could be a 4-5 man class.
I still say that Lowe, or whoever took the job, still needs to be given time to reload all around, and at every position. I think where he needs to be extremely careful though, and where he’ll possibly either make or break his program, is in having a proper balance of players who come in to play and win collegiate level, and those kids who see it simply as a way to showcase their skills for the next level.
I’ve said it before, I don’t think that Simmons would have gone if he had been involved with a better program, and I also think Brackman would have probably played if he thought he had gained something positive from his earlier experiences as a Wolfpack BB player. To go further, I don’t think that any of the unc players that are coming back, would have, if they were playing at a program that is comparable to NC State’s current condition. My point is, that Sidney Lowe has to build a PROGRAM once again at NC State. A family if you will, and something that means much more to these kids than what was here when he first stepped into the position. That is an extremely tall order for Sidney Lowe, or anyone, but everything is here, and has ALWAYS been here, even over the past two decades of settling for less. It’s just a matter of having a leader with the skills to draw upon all of the positives, and a confidence that doesn’t allow any excuses or intimidation simply because the alignment in the ACC has been askew for so long.
We’ll see what happens, or whether it can be translated decades later, but that was the very definition of Sidney Lowe as a player.
Here is a list of some of the names I saw in the mix for the recruiting class of 2009…
Mouptadu Tarou
Latavious Williams
Abdul Gaddy
Mfon Udofia
Malik Wayns
Ferrakohn Hall
And thus far, we have signed…
Scott Wood
There was also another guy named…
Fred Gulley
But it looks like OSU swooped in and signed him before we ever even had a chance.
happypackdad, I haven’t been looking at recruiting like I usually do, but you listed some names that I’m not familiar with and can’t find on 2009 recruiting databases? Please enlighten me.
I can always tell when we are talking basketball, cause I see references to future players and recruiting classes that might make us better 2 and 3 years from now! LOL!
The problem with positional analysis is we suck at every position. I tend to agree that Fells would be better at 3, and the argument made hear is a good one…but does anyone actually think Lowe is going to put hime anywhere other than 2? I personally do not. I think he will put Fells at 2 with Ferg playing some and Fells moving to 3 when Ferg comes in.
Given Lowe’s love for Degand (altho he continues to recruit over him), I am thinking he is going to hope Degand can do what Corchiani did his first 3 years. If you remember….Monroe was a very poor ballhandler/passer (altho admittedly much, much better than Fells) his first 2 1/2 + seasons, and Corch had to handle the ball 95% of the time with no help.
Either way…we are staring at another dreadfull basketball season.
^Clarification, I know about Wilson, and found some players with those other names, but I did not see NC State on their list.
I’m admittedly out of the loop, but I’d love to know who you are talking about.
partialqualifier, with what happened last season I am in pretty total agreement with your assessment of the overall talent/WILLINGNESS TO PLAY BASKETBALL, by every position. It ironically could, and should, change with the elimination of the best player we had available last season, but who knows?
What I am wondering is IF Sidney Lowe will be given the time to change the mindset of the entire program, or will he try to speed the process and make poor recruiting selections, in order to keep his job in the short term? It’s definitely a balancing act without much room for error.
Richard Howell, PF/C from Atl, 4*
Ryan Kelly, PF/C from Raleigh, 4* (doubtful)
Thomas Robinson, PF/C from NH, 4*
Chris Braswell - little info on yet
Matt Wilson - C from Raleigh, 2* (bk-up plan IMO)
I’m sure they’re others along with high targets of Favors & Brown.
“The problem with positional analysis is we suck at every position”
Fells, Brandon & Ben at the 3, 4, 5 is a very good front court. Farnold can be a good PG if he recovers well. Fergie/Fells/Mayes can hold down the 2.
“Fells, Brandon & Ben at the 3, 4, 5 is a very good front court. Farnold can be a good PG if he recovers well. Fergie/Fells/Mayes can hold down the 2″
There are three options here:
1- You are very delusional
2- You are the eternal optimist
3- Your defintion of a very good fron court and mine are substantially different.
Were we not outrebounded every single game? Was our frontcourt not outscored and outhustled every single game? And did we not lose our most productive frontcourt player to the NBA?
Thanks hpd, I knew a little something about all of them with exception Braswell, where can I get info on him?
Also happypackdad, all of those players, with the exception of Mayes and Degand, who was hurt for most the season, were there last season and playing with an extremely talented individual on the interior. My question is, are we, as fans, supposed to immediately warm up to those guys if they come out suddenly, and miraculously, playing a different game this season. Say maybe, playing similar a brand of basketball to what we all THOUGHT they should have at least tried to play last season?
We had a top200 ranked true freshman playing the point most of last year. That puts any team behind the 8ball. Chemistry was terrible last season, it’ll be much better this year, think BC & Ben their soph seasons. JJ was a great player, but didn’t learn how to pass out of double teams very well. BC needs a PG og good passing big to set him up, he had niether last yr. Ben is a 5, not a 4, so he was out of position a lot last yr. Fells has all the talent in the world, but gets frustrated too easy. I look for MUCH improvement this season & the way recruiting is going, future is very bright.
partial & hpd, don’t get me wrong, there is no doubt that with a very minimal amount of effort this team could be better than anything that they showed us last season, and I WILL be pulling HARD for them to get it all straighten out. I’m a WOLFPACK fan afterall, but still, I can’t be too happy with any player that exhibited the lack of effort that right under noses, and that WE ALL WITNESSED, last season. It S T U N K, and they S T U N K!!!
happypackdad, you slipped that post in on me, and I like your optimism! I would also LOVE IT if these players did do something very different than what they did last season!!!
I’m the type of person who can easily let bygones, be bygones. Just ask cedargrove, or anyone for that matter.
Was it really chemistry last season, or another academic subject, like physics maybe? Did it possibly more involve the ability, or willingness rather, to get up off of their ass’s and contribute inspite of the fact that they may not have exactly agreed with all that was going on around them at the time? And doing so instead for the sake of the team, the university, and at least making an effort that would justify the scholarship that was provided in order for them to have this privilege in the first place?
Sorry, but if I was Sidney Lowe, I would not have any problem whatsoever in benching anyone who didn’t fit my criteria from an effort standpoint last season. I’d let them just sit watch kids who possibly don’t have benefit of their innate physical atributes and abilities, until those former formerly highly depended upon players have figured out that their PT depends strictly on what they do for their team, and nothing else.
The team might lose, and lose big, and continue to lose, but those children, excuse me, young men, would not even sniff the court until they absolutely begged to get back into a game.
Bad thing about that is that I think there may be one, and possibly two, players in this group that are only going to do what they decide they want to do, no matter what. And I don’t think that Lowe thinks he has the luxury to make any real long term statements regarding his players, if by doing so it means he might lose some ballgames in the short term. Unfortunately, I don’t think it would be too readily accepted by the fans either.
Players can give max effort, but if their game isn’t suited for certain positions, schemes, then it isn’t going to work. W/o a PG and/or passing big, BC will struggle regardless of his effort. Ben will struggle at the 4 more than the 5 no matter his hustle.
^Meant to add up there…
“Bad thing about that is that I think there may be one, and possibly two, players in this group that are only going to do what they decide they want to do, no matter what. (So I’m not quite sure how much of the “chemistry” issues were solved by just one FRESHMAN/supposedly not a team leader, leaving the equation.)
so when is Brown expected to commit? that could really get the ball rolling for the rest of the 09 class. i hope sid is telling him that the sooner her commits, the more he helps us with other big name recruits.
early Aug from what I hear. He’s waiting because he wants coaches to continue to come to his games so his teamates can get seen.
I dont see it.
Unless there is substantial (bordering on miraculous) improvement, I dont see our frontline being any better than a year ago…and that wasn’t very good.
Maybe it speaks volumes about ur SG when we are arguing about frontcourt players in the post about our SG’s!
“Players can give max effort, but if their game isn’t suited for certain positions, schemes, then it isn’t going to work.”
Oh, so I guess their play on the other end, the defensive and rebounding schemes, were all messed up because of the lack of good passing point guard as well?
“Maybe it speaks volumes about ur SG when we are arguing about frontcourt players in the post about our SG’s!”
partial, I’d say it’s about like watching a game, wherein the “shooting guard” is in the fray one minute, and disappears for the next twenty five.
I’m sure his name will come back up at THE END of the thread.
Just reading back over the thread and my typing skills are really suffering, either that, or my dyslexia is in rare form today. Anyway, my apologies. I guess I need to listen to my wife and start drinking that ginkobencubala stuff again.