Campout Fiasco (Updated)

‘Crisis’ averted. Friday morning update –

“After much consideration and work by student leaders, specifically Jay Dawkins, an agreement was reached with Dr. Tom Stafford. The agreement was reached that all 2,847 tickets will be allotted to Campout.”

The following was our original entry on the topic as of Thursday night:

For the years that we have been running this blog (and Statefans.com before it) we have had a community where our readers have been so appreciative that they have asked “What can we do to support you guys? Won’t you take up some donations or something?”

We never have (although we have recently gotten with the times and added some Google ads).

If you are one of those that would like to give back a little and never have had the opportunity — we have something for you.

Tonight I received the following email from a friend who asked me to forward it to others..

===========================

SO WHAT’S GOING ON?

N.C. State is about to break all records for Campout on Friday with well over 3,000+ campers, as reported in Technician on Thursday:

Jay Dawkins, Chairman of the Student Senate Campus Community Committee, worked with University Athletics to make sure every single person who camped out for the entire night Friday-Saturday would be guaranteed a ticket to the event…

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…but then shortly before 5:00pm on Thursday, Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs Tom Stafford announced that the Campus Community Committee’s decision to make people *actually* camp out to get tickets was unfair to students who did not — and he ordered that all tickets be awarded by lottery, with a set amount of tickets for students who camped out and a set amount of tickets for students who don’t.

In an email response to his decision, Student Body President Bobby Mills supported this plan, saying “Dr. Stafford, I totally agree with you… I warned the committee about this decision [to make students camp out].”

********************

If your odds of getting a ticket for camping out are decided at random, and the odds of getting a ticket if you *don’t* camp out are decided at random, there’s essentially no incentive to camp out.

In other words, this was an intentional sabotage of the Campout tradition.

********************

At 3:00pm on Friday afternoon, students who are outraged by the Vice Chancellor’s and Student Body President’s decision to sabotage Campout will be gathering out front of Holladay Hall for a rally to demand that the tickets get restored so that every single ticket to the UNC basketball game goes to students who actually camp out at Campout!

—————————————————————-

So, I fired off the following with my forward but had problems with my email server and decided to post it here on SFN. SInce I didn’t get it out to the masses, perhaps you can just send your friends in and around Raleigh this link. My comments were as follows:

I know that you think that you are too old for this stuff…and I know that you initially will disregard my forwarded email as really insignificant stuff…

…but, I am forwarding you this quick email to call your attention to the continued crackdown on the student experience at our alma mater. Do yourself a favor and peruse the forwarded email and the link to the Technician article to give yourself an education at just how #($#&-up the “Fun Police” have become at NC State.

You may or may not know that campouts on campus for tickets have been extinct for years. So, it was particularly encouraging to learn that the student body recognized the value of the experience and the obvious tenent that one who actually has to sacrifice for something will value the ticket significantly more than someone who makes no investment and receives something at random. (Have you been wondered why the student section doesn’t compare with when you were in school?) Of course, in the screwed up wisdom of college campuses in 2008’s America, it is considered “fair” to give things to people who don’t want to prioritize, invest, sacrifice or work for them over the people who are willing to earn the right. If only my professors would have been so “fair”.

NC State continues its rapid DE-evolution into a commuter school with very little social experience or campus life as evidenced by the continued destruction of the traditions that have historically bound generations of alumni from different time periods. We’ve already been guilty of absence as Tom Stafford has almost single-handedly destroyed NC State’s greek system which now sits at about half of the population as it did 15 years ago. And, don’t forget about the tailgating restrictions that Stafford (and crew) swept over alll alums a couple of years ago. Many wonder if Stafford and his institutionalized “fun and fair police” will stop until no student wants to live on campus and until no beer is consumed in any private or public establishment in West Raleigh.

Perhaps it is time for the key constituency of young, successful alumni and donors to start to making our voices heard for the ‘leaders’ that don’t grasp the long term value of providing a wonderful collegiate experience to students while they are on campus?

If you live in Raleigh and have a few minutes before the weekend arrives on a random Friday afternoon tomorrow, you may want to consider stopping by this event at 3pm tomorrow. Seriously…what would it hurt to invest a few minutes into something that I think/hope means something to you? The more bodies present…even if they are just milling around…will carry a big impact. (If you REALLY want to make them mad then show up drinking beer and wearing greek letters!)

I have included friends who don’t live in Raleigh on this email to encourage you to consider forwarding this to some of your friends who may be in the Triangle.

Thank you for your time.

Post-Script:
For a little more reference I am adding a couple of old blog entries that include some great comments from readers that are relevant to this that some of you may enjoy.

2/1/06 – Campout draws a small crowd

1/30/07 – Technician to Stafford: Improve or Retire

11/16/06 – Thank you, Clemson

2/21/07 – ‘Raleigh Time’

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94 Responses to Campout Fiasco (Updated)

  1. kbstokes09 02/08/2008 at 12:28 AM #

    I am a student and unfortunately I can’t be there at 3:00 today since I’ll be out of town, but what Dr. Stafford doesn’t take into account is that if a student wants a ticket without camping out, all he or she has to do is join the Student Wolfpack Club and get one that way. And even with the SWPC, we have to meet at 6:00 AM at Reynolds this morning (Friday, Feb 8th) to get vouchers just to later receive a ticket to the game on gameday. Point is: if you want tickets to the Carolina game, you either gotta campout the school’s [traditional] way or join the SWPC and wake up at the buttcrack of dawn and get one that way. Nobody deserves to get a ticket by sittin on their butts, entering their student ID number, and clickin a button. My personal opinion.

  2. Trip 02/08/2008 at 12:29 AM #

    Woah. I haven’t heard about this at all and I’m enrolled currently. I signed up for camp out with 12 other people and I’m going to be exceptionally pissed if some random person got a ticket simply by clicking a link on the internet and I don’t get one after sleeping on the dirt for 6 hours and having to go to work immediately after.

    I’ve been okay with the online system for the most part, although I think it should reward people who attend more games with better seats–Man, I’m tired of sitting behind the freaking tubas. However, when you give tickets out impartially in a case like this, it is only giving incentive for people to be lazy and just click for tickets. Why should I freeze my ass off when I have just as good of a chance of grabbing tickets by sitting on my ass at home?

    In an email response to his decision, Student Body President Bobby Mills supported this plan, saying “Dr. Stafford, I totally agree with you… I warned the committee about this decision [to make students camp out].”

    Good thing I didn’t vote for that prick. What an ass kisser. Of course he doesn’t give a shit when he gets to sit on the court every game.

    I’m going to campout regardless, and I’ll try my damnedest to show up for this although I do have class during it. :\

  3. kbstokes09 02/08/2008 at 12:29 AM #

    I don’t know how the smiley face happened but that’s supposed to be ‘(Friday, Feb [the ninth])’.

    SFN Note: I fixed that for you. You get it auto-magically when you type in the numeral 8 followed immediately by a close parenthesis. It keys a shortcut to an emoticon. In the future, just put a space between the two.

  4. #44 17 24 02/08/2008 at 12:30 AM #

    I am college student, and I do not plan on attending the campout (mostly because I have tickets anyway), but come on…I have never really liked the lottery system anyway, and the campout would throw some fire into our campus and Wolfpack spirits. It would be nice to know that the students who were at the game, sacrificed somewhat to enjoy our biggest contest of the year. I for one am sick of seeing empty seats in our student section, and it’s like the Ebay commericials,- “It’s better when you win it”.

  5. LRM 02/08/2008 at 12:37 AM #

    They may take our lives, but they’ll never take our FREEEEEEEEDOM!!!!

  6. roon7723 02/08/2008 at 12:38 AM #

    as of now jay dawkins (campout organizer) talked stafford into letting all the tickets return to the campout. jay worked very hard arguing his point that it would be unfair to go back on his word and stafford finally gave in. so as of late thursday night all is well. hopefully we (the students) won’t wake up to any more surprises in the morning.

    thread regarding the topic:
    http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=513713

  7. LRM 02/08/2008 at 12:46 AM #

    And FYI, when I was at State, campout wasn’t a “sacrifice.” We talked about it all year in anticipation of it. It was a rite of passage. We did it because it was distinctly “NC State.” Basically, it’s was just one of those things we did.

    Carolina and Duke were both big campouts and we got a package deal, usually a Maryland or Virginia ticket with each. But we camped out because it was apart of our culture and even more importantly, it was FUN. Tracking down fire barrels and pallets for firewood and renting a tent from Carmichael and stocking up on essentials.

    I didn’t even get tickets the last time I camped out. In fact, we had non-sanctioned campouts for Georgia Tech tickets in the snow.

    What’s next on Stafford’s list, eliminating beef tips and rice from the dining hall menu? I’m telling ya’ll this, if he isn’t stopped, there might be a day where there isn’t a Bojangle’s on Western…

  8. Trip 02/08/2008 at 12:52 AM #

    No Bojangles on western would be the last straw my friend.

  9. statemech 02/08/2008 at 1:31 AM #

    just got an email, part of it reading:

    “After much consideration and work by student leaders, specifically Jay
    Dawkins, an agreement was reached with Dr. Tom Stafford. The agreement
    was reached that all 2,847 tickets will be allotted to Campout.”

    thank goodness

  10. wufpup76 02/08/2008 at 1:35 AM #

    that’s great to hear roon!

  11. MrPlywood 02/08/2008 at 3:00 AM #

    Not only did I camp out for basketball tickets, I also camped out for a Commuter Parking Sticker so I could park in the best on-campus lots. Since that was good for the entire year, it was actually more valuable to me than a good seat for one game. Heresy? Maybe, but any of you who ever parked in the Fringe lots know what I’m talking about 🙂

  12. old_pcorone 02/08/2008 at 5:16 AM #

    I was camping out in the disaster of 2000 where many campers were left without tickets due to political reasons.

    I really thought that night was awesome, there was still snow in the ground and we had so much fun until the group that was ahead of us was denied tickets, and so were we and the rest of the people.
    It is a pity that tradition is being killed by the PC bunch.

  13. graywolf 02/08/2008 at 7:05 AM #

    Camping out in the 70’s to get a ticket to Reynolds was one of the great experience of college life……..My Sr. year I was on the sideline for every game. Its too bad we have become so politically correct that we cant see the trees for the forest.

  14. Texpack 02/08/2008 at 7:16 AM #

    As a HOZE Squad member, the latest I ever got in line for tickets to an ACC game was about 3 am. That’s what it took to get the seats in Section K directly behind the State bench in Reynolds. The opportunity to scream at Reggie Jackson, Lenny Wirtz, Doh, Dan Meagher, Ralph Sampson, Terry Holland, et. al., was way more than worth it. The permeation of socialist principles into things like student tickets is the result of having a bunch of liberal weenies in charge. The closest we ever came to a lottery for distribution was when they did random distribution of tickets for a couple of games right after the semester break. Students who gwt UNC-CH basketball tickets should be hard core NC State basketball fans and nothing else.

  15. haze 02/08/2008 at 8:02 AM #

    I find it ironic that Duke can support a K-ville but it’s the administration of NC State that is owned by the fear of lawyers.

    Sometimes the people that matter (students, alumni, coaches, athletes, student orgs of all ilk) need to stand-up for what is worthwhile. The Lowe’s and TOB’s of this school need to make it known that they care and support these activities. You better believe that K is in the ears of the Duke admin on this stuff.

    Seriously, shared experience is the essence of the rabid fan. People don’t sit in the cold of Lambeau just for the game. They sit there to say that they sat there and to have the lifetime right to clank beer mugs with the people that sat there with them. Every THINKING person in the student body and athletic department should be banging the drum for campouts.

  16. pack80 02/08/2008 at 8:33 AM #

    So true graywolf. From 76 to 80 if you wanted good tickets you got together with friends and secured your place around Reynolds and partied until the ticket office opened; Frat boys bringing a tv and plugging it in inside Reynolds so we could watch the World Series; playing ball; PTA delivering pizza…Great times. And it added so much to the college experience and we couldn’t wait to get to the game that we had just busted our butts for (and maybe ralphed a few cookies for…)
    Don’t let those things go extinct.

  17. Mike 02/08/2008 at 9:03 AM #

    Camp out is a part of college life and needs to be restored. I cannot attend today but wish I could. Anything I can do to support it, please let me know. Happy to fire off emails to anyone.

    Why can Duck support K-ville? Because K in all his foul mouthed glory is the king on campus, and he is out there with them, buying pizza, supporting the nerds with 1600 on their SAT’s driving their hybrids down from Jersey for the semester. I remember the days when people would camp in front of Reynolds, taking turns so some of could go to class (or go to the game room in lieu of class) and keep our spot in line. I agree Haze, Sidney and TOB should be out there fighting for the students to enjoy this privilege and fantastic memory of student life.

    College is not just about going to class and getting a diploma. Yes, I have my degree, proudly displayed on my wall in my office, and I am thankful for it. But very little of what I learned in a class is useful to what I do. Very much of what I learned in the college environment is used in my every day life. What makes college so valuable (unless maybe you are a MD) is the experience, not the books.

  18. CarnifeX 02/08/2008 at 9:06 AM #

    Not being able to drink on campus really puts a hamper on Campout. I think thats key to the good times of campout.

  19. Girlfriend in a Coma 02/08/2008 at 9:18 AM #

    “puts a hamper on Campout” LOL

  20. TNCSU 02/08/2008 at 9:21 AM #

    ^^I agree, CarnifeX. Thank goodness I was legal as a 19 year old college student. Don’t get me started on the drinking age when we’ve got 17-18 year olds in Iraq with M-16’s in their hands, but don’t have the maturity to have a beer? It’s an out-dated, double-standard, and does not to curb drinking. If anything, it promotes “binge” drinking.

    Off the soapbox….I am glad to hear that all tickets will go to the Campout (if that indeed is true). I also agree that Sid would have a major say in that decision, and that yes, all tickets should be first-come, first-served. BTW, what was up with the lack of students at the Wake game? It was a pitiful showing in the student section.

  21. TNCSU 02/08/2008 at 9:24 AM #

    Does anyone know if the “no beer” rule after 30 minutes prior to tip-off is an NCAA rule or an ACC rule? I’ve seen other games (Syracuse, most recently) where fans have bottles of beer in their hands. Just wondering…I’ve heard it is an ACC rule.

  22. Stoner 02/08/2008 at 9:24 AM #

    Campout wasn’t a big big deal, when I was at State in the early to mid 1990’s. We weren’t that good and most of the time you could get decent tickets without having to camp out overnight, even a few days after tickets became available for ACC games.

    What the powers that be need to figure out is a better way to fill up the RBC center. I live out of state and when I can be in town for an NC State game, usually non-conference, the only tickets available are in the 300 level, even though plenty of seats in the 200 and 100 level are empty.

    I understand the sales of season tickets and lifetime rights need to be good seats, but the fact people don’t make good with these tickets and put their butts in the seat is annoying. If the lower level’s going to be empty, I just wish those tickets could be resold, even by the Wolfpack Club or the RBC Center box office, to people who want one game tickets.

    I bet a lot of folks stay home because they don’t want 300 level seating. If I had a shot at getting prime seats to Wolfpack games, I’d be more likely to try and work in an extra trip back to North Carolina to see a Wolfpack game.

  23. packof81 02/08/2008 at 9:28 AM #

    “Not being able to drink on campus really puts a hamper on Campout. I think thats key to the good times of campout.”

    I hate it for you youngins. I really do. In the 70s, the prevailing culture was much more permissive. We made out just fine. But the powers that be just had to “fix” things.

  24. Sam92 02/08/2008 at 9:32 AM #

    sounds like the student experience isn’t quite what it was like when i was a freshman in 1988 — we thought it was great, in the way that 18 year old kids can think parking it in a cold tent on the dirt can be great, but it was. our crew wasn’t drinking beer, but we still had a good time, because we were excited about the team.

    it’s a bummer what i keep hearing about the student experience deteriorating and the school increasingly becoming just a big, diluted commuter school. the administration seems bent on that from the highest level.

    i’ve often focused on the need for a new AD, but am really thinking that the problems probably go higher – to the chancellor and board of trustees

  25. backinpack 02/08/2008 at 9:42 AM #

    Wait a minute — can you not drink on campus at all anymore?!?! WTF is that about!!!

    I was part of the campout in 2000 where I didn’t get a ticket, but I didn’t care much anyway. It was great to go out there and party and hang out with other students. Even Herb brought a bunch of pizza’s out, iirc.

    While there were some that didn’t like MAF, it seems like she was much better than Stafford is regarding student-life.

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