“I’m not trying to be disrespectful to any schools, but nobody has ever heard of schools like East Carolina.”
—Eric Hyman
(then) Texas Christian University, Athletics Director discussing TCU’s recent move to the Mountain West Conference
Houston Chronicle
July 7, 2005
Link
We briefly referenced East Carolina’s bowl trip in this entry and needed to follow-up the comments now that more information is trickling in.
Now it might have appeared the game was well attended if you were one of the few who watched East Carolina and South Florida go at it at Birmingham’s Legion Field, but all that was part illusion because most of the “announced” 32,023 were seated on one side of the stadium facing the cameras.
Interesting. This entry at Wizard of Odds makes the entire bowl sound like one of the most miserable experiences imagineable. The entry also states the following:
The TV ratings are in and it’s not good. Of the five bowls owned by ESPN, the Pizza Bowl was the lowest rated, falling far behind the Hawaii, Armed Forces, Las Vegas and New Mexico bowls. And even the Motor City Bowl got better numbers.
In light of Eric Hyman’s quote with which we led this entry…is any of this really a surprise?
Heck, media at real football schools proclaim that their schedules are ‘boring’ when East Carolina is included. (Link)
So sad. Maybe the lack of interest has something to do with what Sports Illustrated calls some of the ugliest uniforms in America?
Loading ...
January 2nd, 2007 at 8:16 am
This is a rather disrespectful topic to post. Why the need to slam ECU. As a state fan that also follows and roots for ECU when they aren’t playing state I take offence. Of course any Pirate would only need to note the State/ECU results, the current years one/lose records of the two schools and the lack on any bowl appearance by the pack to strike back. I’ve always felt in life that if the only way one can feel good about one’s selve is by putting down someone else that’s pretty low. Can’t we back the pack without resulting to this?
January 2nd, 2007 at 8:29 am
I was under the impression it was their blog, and they can post as they please. At any rate, this entry is a rehashing of media commentary and the comments of the TCU athletic director, hardly a biased rant by the author with the intent to “feel good about one’s self by putting down someone else.”
I took this as more of a “see, this is why we shouldn’t waste our time scheduling a school like ECU, and why we shouldn’t ever go there to play” type of entry.
January 2nd, 2007 at 8:45 am
In case we have some new readers.
A word about the blog
Comments Policy
January 2nd, 2007 at 9:12 am
dawgitall, you could note all you wanted about ANYTHING regarding NC State vs ECU in athletics and still nobody would want to watch the Pirates. Go read my post in the State/ECU basketball game blog if you want something to whine about. Whoops, sorry! Whine is for UNC fans. CRY was what I meant.
January 2nd, 2007 at 9:57 am
Boring? I think they’re very important. NC State MUST play them!
Sincerely,
January 2nd, 2007 at 10:12 am
“I took this as more of a “see, this is why we shouldn’t waste our time scheduling a school like ECU, and why we shouldn’t ever go there to play” type of entry.”
I took it the same way, but I am having a hard time with this line of thinking, especially in football. To say that it is a waste of time playing ECU, then one should be in a position to defend that statement. For example, “Look how we dominated ECU this year in football and basketball. They have no business on the field with us. 95% of the time, we beat their brains out. The other 5% of the time, they make it a game.”
I just don’t see where we can say these things. One may say that even if we beat ECU, what do we gain? If we win, then we should have. If we lose, then it is an awful loss. These things are true. However, if we dominate ECU REGULARLY (and we do in bball), then we can say, “what a waste of time playing ECU. They can’t even give us a game!”.
I think the football game is an awesome tradition that should continue.
Oh, and Pack92
” Piss on EZU. You want to get on TV, win 9-10 games a year consistently and not every 10-15 years. THEN you have a legitimate football program.”
So does that mean that our program is legitimate? (this was your comment in mid October)
January 2nd, 2007 at 10:21 am
Realistically, we should probably play ECU occasionally in both revenue and non-revenue sports. Trying to just ignore them is unrealistic. The ECU basketball game is a good example of a reasonable and well-scheduled contest. However, to get into a year in, year out rotation with such a lightly regarded and generally sub-standard opponent smacks of politically-influenced scheduling. And without question any revenue sport contests should be in Raleigh.
Yeah, I know they have beaten us in football. So what? Playing them does us little good and mostly bad. Win, and you earn nothing. Lose, and it gets ugly. Bottom line: I’d rather lose to Ohio State on ESPN than beat ECU on WPTF.
January 2nd, 2007 at 10:31 am
According to a Pirate fan’s research…
A year ago, two bowls had household ratings lower than 1.66 (This year’s ECU game rating) – the Poinsettia Bowl (Colorado State-Navy) at 0.89 and the Meineke Car Care Bowl (South Florida-N.C. State) at 1.52.
January 2nd, 2007 at 10:42 am
Count me in the “why not play them” camp. In football they are unfortunately still a challenge for us. In basketball they shouldn’t be, but we tune up on other in-state teams, so why not ECU. I do think the games should be in Raleigh, but I don’t really see the harm in playing at ECU once in a while. If Ricky Stokes can turn that program into a competitive one (a big “if,” but not impossible), what would make them any different from Charlotte, UNCW, etc., other than the hatred some people seem to have for ECU?
I used to work in an office full of Tar Heels and it irked me to no end when they gave me one of their “Duke is our rival” lines, as if State only aspired to be UNC’s rival, but in reality wasn’t good enough. I see a little of this in Wolfpack fans saying we shouldn’t ever play ECU because they’re not good enough to be our rival. I say schedule them and beat them.
January 2nd, 2007 at 10:56 am
Well the TCU AD comments are a year and a half old. And of course this is their blog to post what they wish, but hopefully I’m entitled to offer my opinion about it also. As for whining or crying, not in the least. I am a State fan but the post about ECU comes off a little like sour grapes to me. That’s just my opinion right or wrong.
January 2nd, 2007 at 11:56 am
I showed up about 15 minutes late to the NCSU/ECU basketball game last week. There were about 200 Pack fans outside in complete dismay that the game was a sellout and there were no tickets at all to be found. I was so shocked, I went to the box office and asked them was the game really a sell out. Of all the basketball games so far this year, that was the only one you could not get a ticket for.
I hate to say this, but as long as the ECU fans buy the tickets, fill the seats, and produce the revenues we will probably continue to play them. I was also at attendance for the sold out or close to it NCSU/ECU Peach bowl and the Charlotte bowl.
For football, I think the question should be, would we rather play ECU or Akron, etc.? For basketball, it is no different than any other in-state school – is it?
January 2nd, 2007 at 12:11 pm
I don’t think playing ECU at home, or even on an neutral site is necessarily a bad thing. I don’t see the point in traveling to ECU as there isn’t anything to gain and a lot to lose from a recruiting standpoint. If we want to play an OOC road game against a team from that echelon, then fine but we should make it worthwhile. That meaning, we should schedule that game against a team in a state where we want to make recruiting inroads, and not shedule it against a team in a state where a win doesn’t bolster us, and rare losses temporarily can set recruiting back.
This of course applies much more in football than basketball, sheerly due to number of games played. In basketball, the occasionaly road trip in the long haul is probably not nearly as detrimental, even if a loss ensues. For football, I don’t think it matters much who we play at home– but road games OOC better have a point, and more upside than downside.
January 2nd, 2007 at 12:13 pm
doesn’t Kentucky play Eastern Kentucky practically every year in basketball???
what could the wildcats possibly gain from this matchup???
it’s no different.
Schedule them….. then BEAT THEM.
Where’s the harm in that???
ECU is a legitimate football school…. and I would venture to guess that they’ve put exponentially MORE players in the National Football League than say…. i don’t know….. maybe….
DUKE!!!
January 2nd, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Just as a point of fact, Duke has put about 90 players and 3 hall of famers in the NFL, ECU about 58 players, 0 hall of famers. Both lists include numerous one year and outs, no-name players and other mixed “players” but I don’t think one should use “legitimate football school” and duke or ECU in the same sentence unless a negative is in said sentence.
There are too few football games in a year to play the same non-conference in-state team each year, and to play them on the road has too exhorbitant an opportunity cost.
January 2nd, 2007 at 12:39 pm
wolfpackbball,
Define legitimate.
Our program is a mess right now and I will be the first to admit it. We have fallen a LONG way since the Gator Bowl. But we WENT to the Gator Bowl. We were also one stupid TA McClendon handoff away from going back the next year. My point is ECU never maintains any consistency in football yet maintains they are a “football” school. Really? Played Ohio State lately? How about Alabama? Notre Dame? Didn’t think so. We only beat Notre Dame of those schools I named but we PLAYED them! If they did achieve the goals I posted and you so excellently re-posted then they WOULD BE a football school. I do not see it as the mission of NC State OR the ACC to help elevate them to that status. If they want to get there a school named Boise State just laid out a pretty good plan.
I have no qualms about playing ECU occasionally. It is an in-state rivalry that would be good for the fans. I have big problems with the state govt. of NC forcing ACC schools to play ECU when the only benefactor is ECU. When the ACC plays out-of-conference that mostly means out-of-state as well as at least a comparable conference SEC, Big East, etc. Gopack 968 summed up the situation nicely.
January 2nd, 2007 at 12:47 pm
dr. badger-
praytell…. how many of those 90 that Duke has placed and the 58 that ECU has placed in the big league occurred since i’ve been alive….
i was born in 1971.
for the life of me….. i canNOT think of one Duke player that i’ve seen playing on Sundays…. compare this fact with the fact that i’ve seen ECU players in high visibility positions almost every Sunday for the last…. 5 to 10 years.
i can assure you that the 15-18 year old kids that are playing football in this state… know full well that ECU is a far more prolific and visible program than Duke is…. to argue otherwise is not only fruitless…. but moreover asinine.
with all due respect…. of course.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Without taking this in a much different direction than the original author intended, looks like about 48 of those players played since you were born.
Of those, Dave Brown had the highest profile NFL job of any Duke/ECU player I can recall– that being a starting QB in NY (Giants).
Re-read what you initially wrote. You did not simply state “15-18 y.o. kids know…” you went to superlative, w/ “exponentially more nfl…”
It’s fine to say ECU is currently WAY better than Duke. It’s not fine to re-write the history books, and to ignore what successes Duke has had recently with respect to individual players.
I did not intend to get into a debate about whether a chevette is better than a pinto. I did want to point out that playing ECU yearly and playing them on the road is conterproductive to building a championship caliber football program, as the situation currently stands.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Forget about wins and losses and all of that stuff…
NC State should NEVER play ECU in any sport, especially the big revenue sports of football and basketball, based on their IDIOT collective fanbase tearing up Carter-Finley when State was gracious enough to allow them to play there after a hurricane affected their game vs Miami…Especially when you consider the IDIOT ECU fanbase’s previous history of tearing up Carter-Finley—being total ASSHOLES shouldn’t be rewarded.
And, no, it doesn’t matter if every fanbase has assholes or you know some great ECU grad—they should all hold their “lunatic fringe” in check…(which raises a good question why Foulup would schedule a game with a real “lunatic fringe”…)
If New Orleans’ sports fans and nearby college fanbases had trashed Oklahoma City or other venues they were graciously offered after Katrina, there would have been national outrage and disgust—and Oklahoma City, etc. would likely NEVER invite said team and fanbase back…NC State shouldn’t either!!
NC State should be done with ECU!! Next time, they can go to Kenan!!
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:22 pm
thank you for your due diligence and you are correct…. .in that i should have qualified my original statement a little more clearly…. because i realize that Duke was at one time closer to a National Power in football than NCSU has ever been… the problem is…. that was light years ago.
For the record though…. Jeff Blake played in a pro-bowl while Dave Brown wallowed in mediocrity… in fact Blake still has the longest TD pass in pro-bowl history….
and while i would much rather play Ohio State or Louisville in football (or b-ball for that matter)…. i see a much bigger upside in playing ECU vs. Akron, App St, Eastern Kentucky, et al…..
maybe that’s just me…. but i doubt it…. and the ticket sales for Pirate games seem to prove me right.
i’m still at a loss to understand your comment of “It’s not fine to re-write the history books, and to ignore what SUCCESSES Duke has had RECENTLY with respect to individual players”.
i consider myself a fairly astute football fan of both college and pro…. yet i can’t seem to identify any RECENTLY SUCCESSFUL Duke football players.
oh well….. no biggie.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:39 pm
^light years is a distance not a time.
I think we should support ECU and schedule them on alternate years or something. Maybe create some sort of rotating schedule where each of the schools in the UNC system play each other. If we’re gonna bolster our schedules with weaker teams, lets keep all of that revenue in state in the system.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Agreed that Blake is probably the best of the bunch amongst QBs and skill position players. Brown was mediocre at best, but then again how many QBs enjoy success in NY? Seems to be an infrequent occurence.
Duke has some lineman in the last 20 years with impressive tenures, and for a stretch put a lot of defensive players (ray farmer era) into the league. I would say it is a success to get into the league period if you are at a school like Duke, or even ECU– you have to excel, you have to get noticed. If you aren’t a phenomenal talent, your longevity in the league is going to be to an extent governed by the system you are put in, health and other factors.
Heck, Ben Watson (TE) was at Duke for a bit (transferred), so recent name players still end up going there. Recruits may know that ECU is much better than Duke, but they also know that between FSU, NCSU, Miami, VT etc. that they will be seen by a lot of scouts and have a chance to get noticed.
I’m of the mindframe that OOC games should be for SOS, Recruiting and NFL Scouting for your players (also aids recruiting) each season. ECU can make huge strides in each of those 3 by playing state. We stand to lose ground in all 3 by playing ECU, and every additional game against them increases the risk of losing ground. Playing at ECU magnifies the potential losses. So for State, we put current AND future seasons at jeopardy (SOS and recruiting) by continually playing this game. The reward is by far outweighed by the risk.
At least with schools like Akron, you have a better potential for a prosective player to identify state that may not have seen them before, or may not have had much of an idea about the team. With ECU, those fans/prospective students are already acutely aware of NCSU, so we don’t stand very much of anything to gain.
January 2nd, 2007 at 1:56 pm
I say we keep playing them in basketball and football because I enjoy seeing NC State kick ECU’s ass in any sport.
Seriously, who expects Coach O’Brien to not get Wolfpack football back in good working order? ECU won’t beat a quality NC State team very often in that case. They had no business beating NC State from a talent standpoint this year, and you saw how losing to them did to seal the fate of an alumnus head coach.
As for Coach Lowe, same thing… Except you can change the sentence to ECU should never beat NC State in basketball. As in never, ever, ever. Comparing NC State and ECU’s basketball programs is like deciding between Miss North Carolina and Ugly Betty.
They had their best chance at beating us this year, the one in which our program will bottom out and begin arcing upward quickly. Next season they will be mincemeat, and the year after that, horse-glue.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:02 pm
As long as we’re scheduling patsies I have no problem scheduling the ECU, WCU, and ASU. If that’s what it takes to keep the state legislature happy, so be it. UNC and State probably carry more weight each than the other 14 schools in the combined (e.g. why do you think WCU sits in the middle of a huge national forest but doesn’t have a forestry program?). I’m sure football-wise, their biggest concerns in the system are ASU not moving up to 1A and UNCC, UNCG, UNCW not adding football programs.
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:09 pm
RAWFS- I enjoy watching NC State plaster ECU as much as the next fan, but I would think TOB getting state back on track would be one of the reasons to NOT play them. Unless they scrap the BCS, I don’t want a high-quality state team to slide down a notch due to playing ECU. I would think the better state is, the less of a reason to play them exists.
On another note, with regard to your basketball paragraphs– isn’t it wonderful to be affiliated w/ a school where bottom-ing out in basketball is still (one would imagine) a double-digit win season?
January 2nd, 2007 at 2:22 pm
I don’t think state should be playing any IAA teams in football. It just seems to make sense to play ECU, a mid major in state program on a regular basis, rather than scheduling those IAA programs. In basketball we have enough early seasnon games that we ought to be able to schedule them. I would be much more interested in seeing the pack play ECU, Charolette, UNCW etc. rather than some of those lesser teams we play in Nov. and Dec. Given the lack of attendance for those games in comparison to the ECU and UNCW games that if I’m not mistaken were near sellouts when the students weren’t even at school, that would appear to be the way many others might feel as well.