Just after Sidney Lowe was hired, John Delong of the Winston-Salem Journal wrote an outstanding piece that we never chronicled here and wanted to take a couple of minutes to get it on the site.
Good Call: In Lowe, State gets what it needs … a State guy .
This piece was fantastic. It was the absolute BEST article that we saw in the mainstream media regarding Lowe’s hire. The piece highlighted more of the different complex different elements related to Lowe’s hire.
We will quote Delong’s most recent piece in the comments section of this entry. These are great pieces and we wanted to have them chronicled forever in case you need/want access to them.
Good Call: In Lowe, State gets what it needs … a State guy
By John Delong
Winston-Salem Journal
RALEIGH - In case you didn’t notice, college athletics became big business a while back.
That’s why more and more corporate executives and fewer and fewer former coaches are running athletics departments these days. The athletics director continues to be called AD, but he probably should be called CEO.
Lee Fowler, the AD and CEO at N.C. State, runs a program with an annual budget of about $37 million.
Fowler will walk to the podium at a news conference this afternoon with a smile on his face and will announce the hiring of Sidney Lowe as the Wolfpack’s new basketball coach.
This will draw quick cheers from the partisans in the Dail Basketball Complex. It will continue to draw mixed reaction and heated debate in college-basketball circles.
But it will be a tribute to one of the first rules of business.
That rule: Keep the customer satisfied.
Simon and Garfunkel sang a song about the subject long ago, when Fowler was a youngster shooting hoops and dreaming of a future that would take him from the basketball court to the coaching ranks and ultimately into administration.
There were times during the reign of Coach Herb Sendek when Fowler appeared to have forgotten the tune. Or maybe Fowler was just out of tune with the legions of die-hard Wolfpack patrons who became increasingly disillusioned with their coach even as he was leading the program to five straight NCAA Tournament appearances. Maybe Fowler wasn’t fully comprehending how hard die-hard fans die when rivals come into the RBC Center and win by 24.
But enough of these maybes.
Sometime in the past month as the search for Sendek’s successor dragged on, Fowler came to grips with what N.C. State really needs in a basketball coach. He got a guy who knows basketball and knows State. He got a guy who has gone to Chapel Hill and gritted his teeth and refused to back down to Dean Smith, Michael Jordan or anyone else wearing powder blue. He got a guy who satisfied the customers earlier in life to the point that his No. 35 and a 1983 national championship banner hang in the rafters of the RBC Center.
Maybe Fowler hired Lowe out of desperation after Rick Barnes, John Calipari, Steve Lavin and John Beilein turned down the job. Maybe he did it with deep reservations, since Lowe has never coached a college game or recruited a high-school junior. Ah, we’re getting back to too many maybes.
But N.C. State is getting back to its essence by hiring one of its own. It is getting back to being N.C. State again, not some generic version of a college-basketball program run by someone who was the coach at N.C. State but was never truly N.C. State’s coach.
Herb Sendek is a good man who ran a good program and had a good deal of success in the second half of his tenure. But Sendek never did grasp and embrace the unique situation that is N.C. State basketball, and as he proved, he would rather coach in a passionless climate without any demands, realistic or unrealistic. To that end, if you can’t stand the heat, go to the desert.
So N.C. State is replacing a guy who went by the book with a guy who understands the history books, and figured prominently into the best chapters.
Fowler is hiring a guy who understands the lay of the land, who is passionate about the school, and who hates to lose to Duke and Carolina more than he likes to beat Delaware and Clemson. Barnes fit that profile too, even though he didn’t go to State. Calipari had the brains and the ego to fit the profile. But they didn’t take the job, so it was on to other options and at some point, an old Simon and Garfunkel song floated into Fowler’s mind.
This hire gets a thumbs-up for that reason alone.
And let’s get one thing straight. It is important to keep the customer satisfied. And at N.C. State, it is triple-overtime important to keep the customer satisfied, because this is a situation like few others.
In New York, daily rides on the subway are a part of life. In Los Angeles, sitting in traffic jams under a haze of smog is a daily part of life. In Denver, breathing in fresh air and looking out over the snow-capped Rockies is a daily part of life.
In North Carolina, the rivalries among the four Tobacco Road schools are a daily part of life - a huge part of the fabric of the lives of millions. What has happened, what is happening, and what will happen with State, Carolina, Duke and Wake Forest drives more than just sports-talk radio shows. It drives debates at the office water cooler. It drives arguments at home. Most of all, it drives hearts and passions. Do you drive a car with a UNC logo on your license plate, or do you have a State tag?
So while it was never mandatory for Fowler to cater to the masses and let the lunatic fringe or the media hire his next coach, it was essential that Fowler eventually wise up to why Sendek was a good coach but a terrible fit.
The lifelong State fans who live in the real world, not some Sendek-esque utopia, understand all the ways their lives are affected when a Wolfpack team is humiliated by the bad guys. And those lifelong, die-hard State fans deserve hope, especially as they continue to pour millions into new university projects. They deserve to be part of the family, and they deserve to feel good about themselves every bit as much as Duke, Carolina and Wake Forest fans.
Lowe understands that. And when Fowler walks to the podium today to introduce Lowe, it will mean that he is beginning to understand that.
Maybe there were better coaches out there. Maybe there were safer choices. Maybe Lowe can recruit. Maybe he can’t. Maybe Lowe can draw up the right play at the right time. Maybe he can’t. Maybe State will be able to belly up to the neighborhood bar better soon, or maybe Duke and Carolina will continue to dominate it. Maybe State fans will get disillusioned with Lowe and start driving up the ratings on sports-talk radio again.
Maybe, maybe, maybe.
But at least maybe is back in the vocabulary again.
Maybe Fowler has dug himself a hole with this hire, given the uncertainty of Lowe’s ability to recruit and run an elite program against elite competition.
But if that’s true, Lowe isn’t a bad guy to be in a foxhole with.
A-M-E-N!! (I’m still not convinced that Foulup gets it, though!)
Not surprised. John Delong is one of the few sportswriters in the state who is a State alumn.
Thanks Statefans - I mentioned in a couple of your other posts w/ open comments that Delong had 2 really good articles as of late. (Actually, one was the post asking for critical articles, I had limited time and had been following Delong’s stuff, so I gave him some deserved props.) The reporting was “State-centric”. Not that it was biased towards State, but they clearly demonstrated that he understood “the problem.”
Thanks for publishing his articles - he’s done a solid job covering this.
Agreed!
“at least maybe is back in the vocabulary again”
Great line that sums up my feelings as a Wolfpack fan.
This is why the Lowe hire is the right move for NC State:
Sometime in the past month as the search for Sendek’s successor dragged on, Fowler came to grips with what N.C. State really needs in a basketball coach. He got a guy who knows basketball and knows State. He got a guy who has gone to Chapel Hill and gritted his teeth and refused to back down to Dean Smith, Michael Jordan or anyone else wearing powder blue. He got a guy who satisfied the customers earlier in life to the point that his No. 35 and a 1983 national championship banner hang in the rafters of the RBC Center.
Amen brother! Wow…what a refreshing look at the truth!
The 180 in thinking here from the initial start of the coaching search is bothering me. We have gone from saying that Alumni Status should be inconsequential and, in my opinion, going to too far in saying Lowe should not have even been considered for one second to now saying we agree with this piece that argues his alumni status is THE reason this is a good hire.
I’m excited about Lowe, and I like that he is a Wolfpacker. However, I want to win more than I want a coach whose number hangs in the rafters. Hanging banners is what matters. Competing at the highest level is what matters. That article is void of any basketball logic and rests on us all feeling warm and cuddly about having our former PG here. I think Sid is up to the challenge of coaching and recruiting. I say ‘think’ because none of ‘know’ anything yet. But I know one thing: The NCAA doesnt hand out free wins to universities that are coached by alum. If Lowe turns out to be the great hire I want and hope him to be, it will be because he is first a great coach and recruiter. The alumni stuff is gravy.
“Maybe Fowler has dug himself a hole with this hire, given the uncertainty of Lowe’s ability to recruit and run an elite program against elite competition.
But if that’s true, Lowe isn’t a bad guy to be in a foxhole with.”
Are you kidding me? Losing is losing. There is one thing I know for sure about losing. It sucks. I dont care who is in foxhole with you. If you are getting pounded, it sucks.
Great article but he left out one thought and that is that the word “hope” is now back in our vocabulary after many, many years of being absent. I lost that hope 2 years ago and gave up my tickets. I will now take care of that problem because the word “hope” has returned to my vocabulary and to my thoughts about Pack basketball.
The 180 in thinking here from the initial start of the coaching search is bothering me.
The authors here at SFN and probably most State fans wanted a home run hire for the next coach…someone who has proven that he can win at the highest levels on college basketball. That didn’t happen. Some of the misses received front page coverage and others did not. I will let the admin here decide whether or not to discuss some of the names that did not receive front page coverage.
Once you realize that the big hire was not going to happen, then you have moved to the level where there is risk and uncertainity with any of the candidates. Personally, I put Lavin and Beilen in this group along with a bunch of mid-major coaches that have been discussed to death.
IIRC, there was one thread that said that any mention of Lowe would be deleted. The reason was simple…..he didn’t meet the requirements that State elected to broadcast to the entire world….specifically five years of college head coaching experience and a college degree. It serves no purpose to waste bandwidth discussing a candidate that didn’t meet the requirements.
For whatever reason, LF decided to waive one requirement completely and hire Lowe since he was close to getting his degree. We as fans have the choice of how to view Sidney’s hire….just like we would with any other decision that LF could have made. For me, I prefer to concentrate on the positive aspects of the hire, while acknowledging that there are questions yet to be answered. But for me, the important point was that there were going to be questions with any of the coaches at the B/C level. If you are going to gamble, why not gamble on one of your own?
Good point VaWolf. It’s not like when Herb resigned Lowe was the first candiate that Fowler contacted. He’d reached a point where any hire was going to be a risk.
Delong also hit on an important point - both Barnes and Calipari had the “personality profile” of someone who would really “get” our situation. They were obvious “home run” hires, but they didn’t work out. When you get to a certain point in the search, you have to take more risk, and going for an alumnus AS LONG AS HE HAS A SOLID COACHING RESUME makes some sense. You aren’t desparately reaching for an alumnus, but rather getting the best “fit” among relatively equivalent resumes, each with varying components of risk.
In the end, it’s not Lowe’s alumni status per se that made him the best choice, but rather the FIT between coach and job. We have always stressed the importance of “fit.”
BJ - I think there might have been other fits - but I’m convinced that there was a skeleton or two in the closet for some of the “good fits.”
I also want to say that if the assistant coaches hires tell us anything, it’s that Lowe is decisive and persuasive. Much like Amato’s initial hiring, this element has contributed to the enthusiasm surrounding Lowe.
^Dan, Dan, Danny Boy
I read through the optimistic posts from many a excited Wolfpack fan, and then there is my old pal Dan, worrying himself sick once again,
about the cold, hard X’s and 0’s. When a coach goes into the huddle and tells a kid to get off his ass and get out there and stick his man, instead of drawing circles and lines emotionlessly on a dry erase board, you can’t measure that impact. It involves a gut check, emotion, and desire, that can’t be drawn on a board or called up out of thin air. It has to be there every day, in practices and at every meeting. It has been proven, and many times, that the game of basketball can swing on shear emotion and absolute confidence alone. Some people just cannot understand that philosophy until they witness it for themselves, and some still can’t accept that fact, even then.
Cheer up Danny Boy! I will guarantee there will be four years of constant player improvement, and HEART, back in NC State basketball once again, and although you may not be able to point to a specific play or scheme, things will definitely be taking a turn for the better not too long from now.
… player improvement, and HEART, back in NC State basketball once again…
In a nutshell I think this says why Lowe is a good fit. Alumni status certainly helps but I’m sure it wasn’t the only factor in the hiring decision. Once again there is HEART and FIRE in the BB program. Will Lowe be successful? Who knows but the same could be said about all of the coaching prospects (admittedly more of a concern with certain ones). I hope Lowe can retain the current players and the recruits but regardless of if he does or not I see nothing but improvement - “success” who knows but certainly improvement.
15 years is a long time in the wilderness and it may take a few more but now I see HEART and FIRE. As Martha Stewart would say “It’s a good thing”.
“It is getting back to being N.C. State again, not some generic version of a college-basketball program run by someone who was the coach at N.C. State but was never truly N.C. State’s coach.”
The sums up the Sendek era perfectly. Herb never made us feel like he wanted to be part of the family. Just one good explosive rant after one of his (many) losses to Duke or UNC would have let me know he was one of us. Instead, it was always like another day at the office.
^I consider improvement, to be success. If it is consistent, it leads no where else.
Guys I’m not trying to be a skeptic but let’s not get carried away here. I seriously doubt any of you will be saying these same things if Sidney doesn’t get State to the “next level”, which in my mind would be consistent wins over UNC and Duke, top-15 finishes, annual trips to the Sweet 16 with a few Elite 8’s and possibly a Final Four appearance in there. Am I correct in saying that? Or did we hold Sendek to a higher standard just because he wasn’t one of us? What’s more important, results or family?
Let me caution you in saying that if this so called ’success’ is to happen, be prepared to allow the necessary time for it to take shape. Pointing the gun at Sendek for raising the profile of the program and establishing consitency wasn’t exactly wise. Statistically speaking, he did a hell of a job considering the shape the program was in when he came aboard. It’s only natural that the program will now take a hit with the transition. The question will be how long will it take Lowe and company to get this thing righted.
If Lowe hasn’t made a Sweet 16 or beaten UNC and Duke 50% of the time by 2012, are you going to give up on him just as you did Sendek? I’m just asking for a little expectation management here, that’s all. It’s going to take time. Coach K’s early struggles at Duke are well documented. There are countless other examples. And for those guys that seem to transform a program overnight, beware of foul play and the greed to move on to yet another program by way of success. “Quick fixes” can often times put programs in even more of a whole in the long run.
Lowe will work very hard to make this work, I am confident of that. What I am also confident of is that Sendek also worked very hard, and he’s made his living doing this in the college game. This just isn’t that easy. There are many more “losers” than “winners” judged by our results-based society.
One last thing — I am still very wary of Sidney’s credentials. I do not think we can simply assume he is going to satisfactorily complete the necessary coursework to get his degree. No matter what was said in any of those meetings with Fowler and Saint Paul’s, Fowler and NC State are taking a risk by hiring a guy who hasn’t yet qualified for the job. Say what you want about how his acquisition of a degree may well be a lock; we all know nothing is guaranteed in this world. Some may ask ‘Do you honestly beleive that Fowler would hire somebody that wouldn’t be able to qualify for the job”? I wouldn’t put anything past him.
Im excited about Lowe. I just dont agree with DeLong as to the reason to be excited. Its a bogus reason. I really like that its Sid coming in. I do. But thats gravy. That’s not the ‘reason’ to make the hire, and its not the reason he’ll be successful.
He’ll be successful because he is a good coach and a good recruiter. If he isnt successful, it will be because he wasnt a good coach or recruiter. Now, that he is an alum may mean he can muster up a way to recruit and coach with an increased intensity. Great. But it still comes down to things other than where Sid played college basketball.
VA, I agree with you on the rest being a gamble. And that Sid and DW had one thing going for them that a Marshall did not in that they love NC State. But that should only be a tie breaker when all other things are equal, which I believe is the case. Its just poor logic to argue that he is a good hire due to him being Sidney Lowe, PG for the ‘83 team.
To be honest, I’m still pretty disappointed with the AD. This search was riddled with problems. The things Im concerned most about, Sid really cant do anything about. Lee Fowler might have created a situation that sets our program back 4 to 5 years (in Herb Sendek years, of course). What I’m hoping is that Sid can make it up in two to three.
^Wulfpack
If Sidney Lowe is afforded the same latitude that Sendek was given, he will have a life-size bronze on the court square. Once again, you point back to LR and Herb’s plight at the beginning of his tenure. If you guys can hold on out that same mediocrity under Lowe, I am not worried one bit.
I do not agree that this program is on any solid ground, or much improved over even seven ago, and I know that patience will be very necessary. You guys, the ones who still defend the status quo of the past decade as your ultimate comfort level, are the ones who need to sit back take a reality check now. You need to give this coach a fair chance to disappoint, as well as win, just like you did the last one. I gave Sendek five years to come around, it didn’t happen in ten. Give Lowe and staff the courtesy of five good years and see what happens.
The one point I haven’t seen made is Sidney Lowe is taking risk with his career b/c he loves NC State and is very very loyal to the Wolfpack. Remeber, he wasn’t interested in the job until NC State starting running out of candidates. He decided to put his name ‘in the hat’ b/c he felt he was best candidate at the time to lead the Wolfpack.
He’s had long NBA assistant career and I would guess is likely to land another head coaching gig in a few years (making at around 2X his NC State salary). The biggest upside to the NC state job for Lowe is opportunity to be back in Raleigh full-time with his family.
A lot folks are writing about NC State taking risk on Lowe (which is true) but at that point all the choices were risky. Sidney could have stayed within his comfort zone in the NBA but he loves NC State and answered our need.
^Dan
Are you saying that there is nothing but W-L records and previous exprience involved in coaching. That there are no intangables in the game of basketball. If that is your belief, then you may not enjoy basketball and winning under Sidney Lowe after all.
“A lot folks are writing about NC State taking risk on Lowe (which is true) but at that point all the choices were risky. Sidney could have stayed within his comfort zone in the NBA but he loves NC State and answered our need.”
ncsu96… I agree wholeheartedly…
Wulfpack said:
“…I seriously doubt any of you will be saying these same things if Sidney doesn’t get State to the “next levelâ€?, which in my mind would be consistent wins over UNC and Duke, top-15 finishes, annual trips to the Sweet 16 with a few Elite 8’s and possibly a Final Four appearance in there. Am I correct in saying that?…”
No. You aren’t correct in saying that. At least I don’t think so. I don’t think Sidney needs to do all of those things. I will take any one of those things. In other words, either (beat Duke and Carolina approximately 50% of the time and finish in top 25 ) OR (have a Sendek-like record vs. Carolina but make the Sweet 16 annually) OR make the Elite 8 every couple of years. Herb didn’t do any of those. In all fairness, not many coaches do all of those things but a good number of coaches do at least one of those things each year. Just give us something more than a last minute “run” to find out on selection Sunday that we made the tournament.
Since when has a step down to a personally less beneficial post, for the sake of spirit and loyalty, been considered less desireable, than someone stepping up into a whole different climate, where they will gain greatly financially, but have no idea, have never exprienced pressures, and the reality of the game at that next level?
Some people can’t get over the fact that another unproven, mid-major, wasn’t chosen for the job. I am worried that those same people could have waited patiently for him to get his ducks in a row. But will they wait if the coach is actually stepping down from a better job, and an alum , or will they be impatient and cut him no slack, for all those same reasons?
“Are you saying that there is nothing but W-L records and previous exprience involved in coaching. ”
No. But I am saying that the only thing that really matters to me, in the end, is winning. Of course it has to be done as not disgrace the university a la NCAA violations.
Red, I agree with you regarding the other mid-major guys. They have no fewer questions surrounding them than Sid had. But we wouldnt be having a love fest like this if McKillop was hired, and the recruits were leaving? (I know they havent left yet) I think not. And I dont blame Sid for that at all. I blame Lee Fowler. As AD he was the steward of the program while there was no coach. As far as I’m concerned he failed miserably regardless of what Sid achieves. He has singlehandedly set back NC State basketball maybe 5 years.
Lets not let him do the same to football when the time comes. Or basketball the next time around.
I too hope that we will give Coach Lowe plenty of time to have success. I am confident that we will. Wins and losses make up the biggest part of the measure we use to evaluate coaches, but I don’t think you can deny that Coach Lowe’s intangibles give him an advantage over Coach Sendek. Lowe’s intangibles are 1) an engaging personality that comes across well in public; 2) a genuine love for NC State and Raleigh 3) a history with NC State; and 4) an apparent rapport with his players. As an alum, I am willing to give Coach Lowe a lot of time, even if the wins don’t come as quickly as I would like. The intangibles and how they relate to school pride and school spirit do mean someting at a proud University like NC State.
Hawk, I agree that the intangibles give Lowe an advantage in that one area. No doubt. It is yet to be seen if when everything is added up if he has an overall advantage. I’d almost bet the ranch that Lowe will be better than Sendek. I was a huge supporter of keeping Sendek on especially after the signing of Wright. However, looking back on the bigger picture, I’m more critical than ever of the ‘Sendek plan’ or lack thereof.
Its all going to come down to recruiting.
^Dan
You are unfortunately right, Lee Fowler’s set backs are no where close to ending. As long as people remember that mid-way thru the season, and for the next few years, I think we will be fine. You are right also in the fact that I would have no emotional stake in McKillop, or even Barnes for that matter. The intensity and passion that was missing from here before, we all know this guy has it burning deep down inside him. Otherwise he wouldn’t be turning his life upside down, coaching in the NBA playoffs, jumping through hoops to get his degree and satisfy the NCAA guidelines, and sacrificing a lot of money just to get here. If you didn’t have any emotional stake in Sidney Lowe before he become the head coach at NCSU, all those factors that he is subjecting himself to right now, are something that ought merit admiration from all of the nay sayers, and even the recruits, who are watching him get back to where he has always wanted to be.
Sounds like he’s been reading many of our posts on here. Great read… most of it I’ve read here before. At least he has the berries to put it in a formal media outlet.
Dan and Wulfpack - I think all Wolfpacker’s are aware of the unknowns w/ Sidney Lowe. But I think most Wolfpacker’s - myself included - are excited about the enthusiasm, the united fanbase, and an awareness from our coach of what it’s truly like to be a Wolfpacker that Lowe brings to the table.
I am not sure if Sendek ever “got” it. I don’t question his work ethic, his intensity or his morals, but I wonder if he ever understood the chip many of us have on our shoulder and what we really expect. I read the Seth Davis article where he mentions that Sendek was driving around Raleigh after the Texas loss and was surprised how disappointed our fans were. I find that hard to believe - first off, because I know how demanding Sendek can be.
OTOH, I’ll tell you a quick story that I never told others because it wasn’t consistent about what I’ve heard from folks who worked w/ Sendek. After Sendek’s first season, I went to one of the Wolfpack Jamborees where Sendek was speaking. He rec’d a very warm reception and gave us the speach about the team - and everyone there just ate it up. After the speech, everyone got a chance to shake his hand and say a word or two. My buddy commented on his tie - and I said, “I’m glad you’re our coach and I know you’ll accomplish great things here.”
The look on his face didn’t exactly inspire confidence. He kind of sheepishly smiled, but it was almost as if he either thought a) he’d already accomplished something great or b) what are these people thinking.
The media is right - we’re not duke or Carolina or Kentucky or UCLA. But we do expect championships. If you’re not gonna get them, don’t be all happy and satisfied about what you’ve accomplished - especially when our rival down the road is cutting down the nets. Is it a little crazy to believe that you can compete w/ those guys? Perhaps it is - but that’s what we expect.
Sidney knows where we’re coming from and he may not be the one who brings us what all of us want. However, I guarantee you that he’ll understand that if he’s got a horrid record vs. the Big 4 and no banners to hang, no one is gonna be happy!
I find it odd that the same good folks who wanted to stand by Herb when he clearly sucked (this adjective fits the best, whether it be recruiting, winning or improving the players he did fool into playing for him) are the same folks ready to call the Lowe hire a failure before he has coached one game.
Other than finding a coach that has at least one national championship or a couple of ’strong’ conference championships, any coach coming to State was going to have issue. Lowe is the best man for the job and we can all wake up a little happier everyday knowing that we have grown up, put the Herb away and are moving on to better days.
But we wouldnt be having a love fest like this if McKillop was hired, and the recruits were leaving?
I would hope so. No matter who LF got, we didn’t have any say in it. Unless Fowler had gotten a complete boob, there is no reason not to look at the bright side in the beginning. Reality will set in soon enough.
One of the things that gave hope for so long with Sendek was not the W/L on the court, but the improved recruiting over the Les years. However, the great recruiting classes never seemed to accomplish much. So the Wright verbal (JRs can’t sign LOIs) didn’t affect my opinion of Sendek at all. When you throw in the large number of high school stars that never have an impact in college, then that tempered my enthusiasm even more.
Fans will be able to tell alot about the Lowe years just from the recruiting over the next couple of years. If the recruiting results are not at least as good as Sendek’s, then there is no reason to expect the W/L to be much better. No matter how good a coach Sidney turns out to be, he will need better recruiting results than Sendek to take State where we want to be.
I expect that Sidney will be a better coach than Sendek. Unfortunately, most of that is based on seeing him lead the team while I was a student at State….which may not be the best way to measure a coach. I still remember a game in his freshman year, where Sloan had Sidney in a close game near the end. Sidney ran over to Clyde Austin and got the ball to set up the offensive play…..pretty unusual for a freshman PG that wasn’t starting.
Sidney did a great job leading State on the court. I sure hope he does an equally great job leading State from the bench.
^choppack1
Well said. Agreeable on all but one topic. What is the monopoly that one holds over another that entitles to people to think that a school, with equal or greater assets, cannot compete, and will never live up to, the other. And by doing so, the people who believe that way, are actually perpetuating their own pessimism.
tct,
No one is calling the Lowe hiring a failure here. I’m not. If you think I am, re-read the entry. All Im saying is that Alumni status doesnt count in the win-loss column. All this ‘great hire’ talk is pretty premature, and if its based on his alumni status, its not well founded.
Side note.
The NYPost has an article on Larry Davis. Interesting read for a lot of reason.
http://www.nypost.com/sports/63855.htm
“I’m glad N.C. State gave me this chance,” Davis said. “I just want to see what else is out there. I’m still talking to Coach Lowe every day, but my hat’s off to Coach [Bobby] Gonzalez for getting things going so rapidly at Seton Hall. He’s obviously doing something right since he’s getting all these players. You notice that.”
See what good timing can do for a new coach. Bobby G is reaping the benefits of proper timing and at the same time making NC State pay.
You guys are being unrealistic. If you think that some guy who has never coached a college game in his life, who’s never even recruited a kid or learned ‘how’ to recruit, is just going to come in and work miracles — you’re disallusioned. Go ask Paul Hewitt, or Skip Prosser, or Oliver Prunell, or Frank Haith, or Leonard Hamilton, or anyone else coaching this game for that matter, how very hard it is and how competitve this conference is. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE ARE TO LAY DOWN AND DIE. But what it does mean is that we are no more priviledged than any of those other programs, all programs who have the same goals and expectations as we do. My point was that we were getting closer with Sendek. He had established himself and this program as a contender. The word is still out on Lowe. And while he has fantastic personal qualities and ties to the university, that doesn’t gurantee a thing. He hasn’t even coached a game on the college level. There will be a learning curve for sure.
“but I wonder if he [Sendek] ever understood the chip many of us have on our shoulder and what we really expect”
Sendek fully understood what those games meant to the fan base — he wasn’t an idiot (he graduated with honors from Carnegie Mellon for crying out loud). Clearly, he heard the boos this season in the RBC. He got the hint, and left because he knew it’d be very, very tough to get our program to that level. And we aren’t alone — 99% of the other programs nation wide are having the same issues. It wasn’t for a lack of effort, or a lack of knowledge, or a lack of drive, or a lack of passion (Sendek has routinely been cited as a tireless worker by his peers and called Arizona State’s hire a flat out steal). It is b/c those two schools are consistently on top and will likely stay on top for decades to come. We have never experienced that type of consistent success — never. Perhaps one day we will. Perhaps this is a step in the right direction.
It’s great to be excited. It’s great to be enthusiastic. It’s great to finally rally behind one man. But you’re going to have to wake up, smell the coffee, and come to grips with the fact that this is going to take time. Duke and UNC are rolling along, pulling in the best of the best with Hall of Fame skippers who are no where near retirement. The other guys are catching up, and we’re just getting started again. We don’t officially have a coach until July 1, and that much isn’t even guranteed.
Wulfpack,
I wouldnt go that far. I think it plenty possible for Lowe to come in and have a great ‘07 class. Its plenty possible for him to hit the ground running and gunning. One thing new hires always have in their favor is the buzz created by that ‘new coach’ scent (which in my opinion has more to do with the enthusiasm of the coach than with the recruits).
While I was in favor of keeping Sendek, I was not in love with what he had done, and now that I do not have a wolf in the fight, I can see his shortcomings more objectively. What I’m more concerned with is the manner in which the switch was handled. It was unacceptable. Or at least it should have been. The last thing Sid needs is a handicap coming in because of Jed. And I think its shortsighted and unconservative to think that Amato and Lowe will be here forever, and Lee Fowler will not screw us again. It doesnt seem likely from here. But W was sure those WMD’s were gonna be found. I’d rather have a guy in there at AD that makes me feel secure about whatever comes up. I have nightmares about Sid and Chuck being abducted by blue aliens and having to watch Lee Fowler in action yet again.
It’s true, no one out there is a great hire, if they don’t win some games. McKillop, Barnes, Calipari, ***BOBBY KNIGHT***, nobody. Wins in the mid majors or the Big East don’t automatically translate into wins in the ACC either.
I understand some of your concerns. I, myself, would still be expressing reservations about anyone came from down on the lower coaching levels. So I guess you have the right to do the same about a definite believer in NC State who is giving up something better, and on a higher level, to come down here and try to get us back on the map again, back where we are supposed to be.
Call him a sentimental favorite if you will, but I think his exprience(s), will boost recruiting immediately upon arrival, regardless of the terrible NCSU media outlets, and his credentials are might have more positive draw than a few seasons of winning basketball games at Winthrop.
“Otherwise he wouldn’t be turning his life upside down, coaching in the NBA playoffs, jumping through hoops to get his degree and satisfy the NCAA guidelines, and sacrificing a lot of money just to get here.”
“…I guess you have the right to do the same about a definite believer in NC State who is giving up something better, and on a higher level,…”
redfred2 - you seem to be saying & implying that Lowe will be making less money and that the head coaching job at NC State is less prestigious than being an assistant with the Pistons. I don’t think either is true.
Red,
I’m stoked on Sidney Lowe. Not to mention I respect the hell out of him for what is he doing right now. I’ve got two degrees from State, but I know there is no way in hell I could do what he is doing now. No freaking way I could handle it. That just makes me appreciate what he is doing all the more. Add to that he is doing it in part for NC State, and it makes me love him more. It just makes me root harder than ever. But all that doesnt give us any free wins. In the end, its gravy. It ain’t the mashed potatos.
As far as recruiting, the local media is a little lost when it comes to what high school kids like. They cant see it from their perspective. High School kids, especially those off Tobacco Road, know the NBA way better than they know college hoops. Those are the guys they aspire to be like. Most of the fans of college hoops are college grads. They’ve been hooked by thier experience. Recruits havent been there. To tell you the truth, a lot of the parents havent been to college. The NBA is what they know. They know what shoe company has what player. They know all about Kobe, LeBron, Stephon, etc and know little about Adam Morrison and Cedric Simmons. That is going to help Lowe a little. He knows the NBA. He can talk that game with some real knowledge and authority. And the local media, being all college graduates, who are in love with college hoops, really cant relate to that point of view.
^RickJ
The “higher level” is meant to relate to the sport itself. The “better” was meant to be as compared to say, someone coming up from a mid-major school. Pretty vague on my part, sorry.
The $$$, hell, I’ll be honest, I don’t really know all the facts about that for sure? But it sounded good anyway. My bad.
Wulfpack, have you taken a look at the staff hired by Sidney Lowe? I think hiring 2 college head coaches, and a damn good recruiter in Harris, should relax you a bit.
^RickJ
The “higher level” is meant to relate to the sport itself. The “better” was meant to be as compared to say, someone coming up from a mid-major school. Pretty vague on my part, sorry.
The $$$, hell, I’ll be honest, I spouted off when I didn’t really know all the facts for sure? But it flowed so well right along with the rest of the statement anyway, so I hated to leave it out. My appologies for speaking out and not knowing my subject matter.
RickJ - I’m sure he was referring to the fact that Lowe was expected to get a head coaching gig in the NBA again in a few years. Maybe sooner with enough Piston’s success. He’s put in a lot of time in the NBA, and is essentially turning his back on his bread and butter for US! For NCSU, and US. He is making just as big, if not bigger, a sacrifice than this university did in hiring him. I am somewhat of a pessimist in life, but even I can’t believe that there is already a sense of negativity coming from some. Get your minds right, and until that 1st losing streak, BE HAPPY!
^ Guys, I am completely stoked about the hiring of Lowe. I will probably cry when he is introduced in his first game at the RBC. I just don’t think he is making a sacrifice in taking the job. In fact, I would describe it as a huge professional upgrade. We can disagree on this point - it’s not that big of a deal.
To Wulfpack:
1. None of those ACC coaches coach at a school with as much history of ACC success as ours! We have inherent advantages over the GT’s, FSU’s, Clemson’s and WF’s as our history in basket ball would suggest.
2. Sidney Lowe played at NCSU whereas none of those coaches played for a highly successful Div. 1 program as ours. Sloan and Valvano played and they both cited their playing days as being important to their coaching methods. Also, he was recruited out of DeMatha by several major programs so he is not totally unfamiliar with the recruiting process.
3. Sendek while he was smart and hard working, he was ill suited to coaching at this level as he never has won consistently when facing top 50 talent. Maybe not playing in college at a high level worked against Mr. Sendek? He certainly did not relate very well to his players if you listen to comments HIS players have made since his departure.
4. Prior to 1990 we had as many ACC titles and NCAA titles as UNC and more than Duke. I guess that shoots down your claim of never having that consistent success argument. The consistency was there before our athletic department was destroyed by Monteith/Turner/Hopfenburg.
We should be excited and enthusiastic, we finally have a coach who has:
been recruited by and played major college basketball, won an ACC and NCAA championship, played in the CBA and NBA and finally coached in the NBA. No he has not coached in college, but he has done everything else in the game and at a very high level of achievement! You could just as easily make the argument he has as good a background in the sport as anyone we went after during this messy process. And his background has more experience than Dean Smith’s or Coach K’s when they were hired at our neighbor schools so let’s remain enthusiastic and give Coach Lowe 4-5 years to build his own program. I think he will be a bigtime success.
Did Herb win any tournament while at State? I think we may of won that thing in the HS gym in Puerto Rico?
RickJ
You’re possibly right in the short term. I got wound up in Lowe’s personal sacrifices at present, and how he is being tugged in all different directions. One thing I think is probably for sure, is that he was safe, as safe as you can be in that arena, with good money coming in and more out there in future potential, and he was more than willing to give it up to start a new career, here at NC State. That is pretty damned honorable, and not easy to find these days. Ask ol’ Lee, he’ll tell you.
‘74…all very good points worthy of debate.
Your first point:
I tend to disagree. I don’t know what “inherent” relates to here. GT and Wake have each had their time in the lime light. State certainly has a great history, but so do many other programs in our league. And having a history alone means nothing at all.
Your second point:
I will agree that his playing experience, especially considering he won a National Championship at State, is a huge plus and perhaps his biggest selling point. But this will not win you any games. He’s still 0-0, but this will obviously carry some weight with regard to recruiting.
Point #3:
Funny how that works. They were all for him staying before he announced he was leaving (Bennerman, I recall, adamantly defended his coach). I will agree that pehaps Herb didn’t deal very well with today’s kids. He seems to be a bit old-fashioned and set in his ways, not so much rigid as just overly demanding. Sidney will be a nice contrast. However, I will not go so far as to say Herb was ill suited to coaching at this level. NC State was successful under his direction — just not as successful as many fans had hoped. He will raise the profile of ASU basketball, I have no doubt. Many of his peers in the profession consider him a rising star with noteworthy abilities. I will gather quotes if you would like for me to.
Fourth point:
I hear what you are saying. We won it all in ‘74 and ‘83. UNC had its titles in ‘57 and ‘82. The Heels did, however, appear in the title game in ‘46, ‘68, ‘77 and ‘81. What is not debate-able is the fact that UNC and Duke have absolutely owned us in the past 15 years or so — with Duke taking the cake. I know that infuriates us all. I guess the point is we all have strong histories. Who’s best? I don’t know, but I tend to put us at #3 behind our neighbors. The point is that today kids know that UNC and Duke are top-5 programs. What are we?
Other points:
“You could just as easily make the argument he has as good a background in the sport as anyone we went after during this messy process.”
No. I can’t, I’m sorry. His record in the NBA in two stints is abysmal. And he hasn’t yet coached the college game. Doesn’t even know the rules yet. To say he’s more qualified than Barnes or some of the others is stretching it. He wouldn’t even be our coach had so many shunned us. He wasn’t even on the radar. Sort of fell into our lap, so to speak.
“And his background has more experience than Dean Smith’s or Coach K’s when they were hired at our neighbor schools so let’s remain enthusiastic and give Coach Lowe 4-5 years to build his own program. I think he will be a bigtime success.”
Good point. But Dean and K had excellent mentors at the college level. They were being groomed for the opportunity. I also hope he is a success.
Look, I truly want this to work out. Please understand, all I am saying is that some of us ought to think about modifying our expectations. Don’t run another coach off whose doing everything in his power to please you. IMHO, Sidney will not make us into a top-10 program any time in the near future. There’s no way to know and only time will tell. But this was not our top choice, he’s going to have to learn a lot, and the powers that be in the shades of blue aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. You’re going to have to give him well more than 5 years as a benchmark.
As for the coaching staff — a great staff altogether. Though I don’t think a couple of guys who had mediocre success at mid-major programs will swing too many recruit’s heads (see the 3 recruits that are currently undecided). Lowe’s the man, and he’s the one that’s going to have to hook these guys as soon as possible. Lowe is the face of the program. His assistants will help him adjust to the lay of the land immensely.
Lowe’s mentors: Wooten, Sloan and Valvano. Hard to top that trio.
^Wulfpack
May I be so bold as to ask your age?
Cameron Bennerman was defending the man who recruited him, the only college bb coach he will ever know. I would suspect you may be in the same boat with regards to your expriences with NC State basketball coaching. Everybody defends things when they don’t have a different point of reference. First girlfriends, home towns, even parents. Cameron B had some awesome physical talent and basketball skills, where did misguided loyalty get him? I will let you answer that.
“IMHO, Sidney will not make us into a top-10 program any time in the near future. There’s no way”
I guess you are saying that because you think Herb was right on track. If that is the case, then what is your definition of “near future” anyway?
You can throw out all of Sidney Lowe’s capabilities that don’t fit your mold as to what a coach should be, and call them useless, that is your prerogative. Your cranium has apparently been so numbed by your last exprience in coaching, to the extent that it can’t accept that there may actually be someone better for NCSU all the way around.
If you consider the last ten or fifteen years of basketball as something to consider as success, then you should excited as hell, there is not much room to fall any lower, and a lot of room to move on up.
^Wulfpack
I do agree on one thing.
“….and K had excellent mentors at the college level.”
Hell, everybody knows that.
I could tell where this was leading long before I got there, I could feel the doom and gloom scenario building before I read the words “torn ACL.” and I read no further after that.
What if he steps out in front of train tonight while helping his grandmother home from church? Or what if his turns his ankle on a curbside and does irrepairable damage? Can we talk about Len Bias? Maybe Darrell Stingley?
How about if Cedric Simmons gets the right encouragement and becomes the nation’s premier big man next year and lights up the ACC? What about his future then? Is that too upbeat to consider?
Maybe I should have read on.
Top professional draft picks were unimaginable for NCSU athletes until when?
May last post didn’t come through but it said:
Does remember way back to when the #1 professional draft selection in any sport came from NC State University? Pretty big surprise, but it is now a reality.
GREAT article. It said (in media print no less!) what we’ve all been feeling.