Initial Reactions to the Martin Report

There will surely be more in-depth analysis of the Martin Report, but here are some related comments and initial responses since it’s release this morning.

Full 74-page document here.

Holden Thorp (WTVD):

“The hard questions have been asked and today we’re here to get the answers.”

Jim Martin (WRAL):

“(There is) no confirmation for speculation that the Academic Support Program for Student-Athletes academic counselors colluded with instructors or administrators to offer anomalous course sections for the benefit of student athletes,” the report stated.

Butch Davis (WRAL):

For the past two years, a few loud voices in this community have clamored that Butch Davis has somehow tarnished the reputation of the University of North Carolina. The Martin Report has confirmed that just the opposite is true.

Governor Martin expressly found that this was “not an athletic scandal as originally speculated,” and no coach had “anything to do” with it. He further found that these practices were set in place a decade before Butch Davis arrived in Chapel Hill.

Separate investigations by UNC, the NCAA, and Governor Martin have now unanimously concurred with what those who have worked with Coach Davis already knew: He has always valued education, and he has consistently honored the letter and spirit of the rules.

Mark Armstrong, WTVD (@ArmstrongWTVD):

I respect the volume of data the investigation sifted through, but minus any discussion of ‘why?’ With Nyang’oro et al, it seems incomplete

Andrew Carter, N&O (@_andrewcarter):

The word “athlete” appears in the report 157 times. Lots of mentions for a report that concluded this wasn’t an athletic scandal.

Andrew Carter, N&O (@_andrewcarter):

Watching this Martin report trustees meeting, I’ve really been struck by amount of joking around/laughing. Just seems odd and out of place.

Austin Johnson, Pack Pride (@austin_johnson):

It seems like Jim Martin spent months fact-checking previous UNC press releases and then copying them into his report.

David Morrison, Greensboro News & Record (@willbrinson):

Gov. Martin’s report is described as “impressive” and “thorough” by a board member who hasn’t really read it yet. Mmmhmm.

Statefansnation (@statefansnation):

The review found 216 courses with proven or potential problems. Really? 216!?! Does it get any more perfect than that?

More to come.

In the meantime, go check out a number of ongoing discussions on the SFN Forums.

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UNC Scandal

25 Responses to Initial Reactions to the Martin Report

  1. gumby 12/20/2012 at 4:28 PM #

    What I find appalling about this report is the money that u*nx spent. For twenty dollars they could have purchased a Southpark DVD and shown a clip of Officer Barbrady saying “Nothing to see here, people – move along!”, since that was the predetermined conclusion of the “investigation” (and I use that term loosely). Note: any resemblance of former Gov Martin and Officer Barbrady is allegedly coincidental. Uncannily coincidental.

  2. state73 12/20/2012 at 4:50 PM #

    The cheaters sound so relieved that the report finds an academic scandal and not an athletic scandal. Do those stupid bastards not know that an academic scandal is much worse. it cheapens the diploma of every one who graduates. A unc-cheat diploma is more useless than toilet paper!

  3. ADVENTUROO 12/20/2012 at 4:59 PM #

    In my past life as a Director of many disciplines for a local division of a large USED TO BE USA Corporation, I have read a LOT of government findings, PR firms, and aso accident investigation report.

    I will give this report an A+ on the “Greater Weight OF Evidence BS Scale”

    If all the similar or repeat sections were taken out, it would probably be 45 pages or so.

    The theory behind the methodology is well planned and executed….but that does NOT mean that the Purpose or the Charter were accomplished.

    It is a very dry and boring read….I did not turn on the word serach engine, so I can tell you how many times a certain phrase or word was used.

    What I CAN tell you is there are a few glaring omissions….

    FIRST….as to Deborah “Professor Debbie” Crowder. It is reall HARD to get a read on how many changes she made as the classifications and terminology keep getting in the way (obviously NOT by intent).

    BUT, there is NO mention or even WHIFF as to the percentage or number of grade changes were for Student Athletes or NON-Student Athletes. Now that comparison would be interesting. Perhaps someone else picked this up…..I did NOT.

    Second…..if you recall a line from Top Gun…..

    Slider: Goose, whose butt did you kiss to get in here anyway?
    Goose: The list is long, but distinguished.
    Slider: Yeah, well so is my Johnson.

    In this case, the “LIST” in Appendix A of those interviews could be compared to a male porn star’s “total package” (yes, DY said that about Doeren)….

    The list is glaring deficient in ONE name….Mr. Wayne Walden….

    Mr. Walden served as the chief academic advisor at UK under Coach Williams for 15 years. He came to UNC with CRW in 2003….

    CRW wrote about him in his book that he (SERIOUSLY) would rather lose his assistant coaches than to lose WW (not of the Dixie Kings Fame…).

    SO, all of a sudden, WW takes on a new bride, turns in his resignation and skedaddles and the presser says….”To pursue NEW and OTHER Business…..”

    When we took out an executive to lunch on Friday and did NOT bring him back, at 1:00 pm, there was always the notice on the BB that “Mr. Jones, who had a long and distinguished (and a LOT of times it WAS his Johnson that created the issue) career with “the COMPANY” had resigned and left to pursue OTHER busines endeavors”….

    There was a file on the HR server that had all the BS wording and you just filled in the blank….sort of like a blank obituary.

    This report does NOT give anything specific….

    It does NOT state if any Student Athlete, due to the courses in question and/or Little Debbie’s (Not HARDLY) Crowder’s magic grade changing techniques, was able to stay ACADEMCIALLY ELIGIBLE and had it NOT been for said courses and/or said grade revisions, would NOT have been able to compete.

    THAT my fellow rabid woofies, is a question that SHOULD be answered…

    BUT, Governor (Congressman, Dr., BS Artist, whatever) Martin did NOT ask that and since the “scandal”, be it so miniscule, was ACADEMIC and NOT ATHLETIC.

    If CRW’s boys had the “moves” of the PR Firm (and Dr. Martin) last night, the entire Texas BB team would be ordering new athletic supporters as each one of them would have had their “jocks faked out” too many times to count.

    Just one person’s opinion….others will differ….

  4. StateFans 12/20/2012 at 5:24 PM #

    Mark Armstrong continues to impress.

    He asks the one question that every journalist should be looking to get to the bottom of —


    If the academic fraud wasn’t set up to help athletes, then WHY did it exist at all?

    If the fraud didn’t really get going until 1997 (which we all know is BS designed to protect Dean Smith) then WHY did it start then when the AFAM Department was set up in 1993 and Dr. Julius got on campus around 1988. WHY did it just suddenly start out of thin air (supposedly) in 1997?

    WHY has nobody talked about the super close relationship and connection that Deborah Crowder had with Coach Smith and the Carolina Basketball program that existed 20+ years ago?

  5. highstick 12/20/2012 at 5:50 PM #

    Ok, I’m through the first 12 pages which is pure BS canned garbage and doesn’t address anything other than “being verbose and not addressing the real issues”. If the next 60-70 pages are the same, the taxpayers of the State of North Carolina should demand there money being refunded in their tax returns.

    The one thing that is now apparent…Makes no difference whether your a former Democratic Guv’nor of NC or a former Republican Guv’nor of NC, “you’d still sell your soul to the Devil to get your name in the headlines”!

    Guv’nor Martin, I’m glad I never had the opportunity to waste a vote on you.

  6. 85Designo 12/20/2012 at 5:51 PM #

    The academic world just watched a University throw everyone one of its professors, students and alumni under the bus to protect a bunch of stupid athletes, coaches, Wal-Mart fans and their precious basketball team. Reeks of Penn State, just not as sick. Idiots all of them. I can’t wait until a UNC graduate comes to my office looking for a job and has to answer the tough question “well what is your opinion of all this”? My response to his reply will be: “WRONG ANSWER”!

  7. Wolf74 12/20/2012 at 6:12 PM #

    Boy am I glad to have this report prove what I have always thought, that a diploma from UNC-Chapel Hill is virtually as worthless as the paper it is written on. If you combine all the “easy” courses with those that are academicly fraudulant, then I do not understand how the rate at which they had out diplomas is not 100% and maybe the paper it is written on is worth more than the degree.

  8. highstick 12/20/2012 at 6:23 PM #

    More reactions:

    1..”Debby Does Dallas, Debbie Crowder does Chapel Hill”…”she developed relationships”! Debbie is “thrown under the bus” for having too much control…i.e. “Lack of Institutional Control” because and “Individual Had Too Much Control”..

    2. Being a CPA and Consultant, I love how they threw in the “SAS 99 Fraud Triangle” into the early part of the document to impress the “un-informed” and to give credence that “maybe” they learned a buzz term from Baker Tilley”

    3..So Hansborough was taking “Naval Warfare courses” because of disrespectful grafitti??? Huh?? Oh, they were not aware of the “easy grades” over there, so they recruited them? Duh huh? This thing is getting to be a comedy and I’m just hitting the high spots!

    4. Someone explain to me the personal relationship between Warren Martin and “Debby does Chapel Hill”>…..

    5..Didn’t review financial records cause the “Fox in the Hen House” said they were “OK”…You can tell Baker Tilley’s scope was restricted in this study cause the “Fox in the Hen House” represented to them “dat it was “Otay” or however Buckwheat would have spelled it..

    6..The folks must think the Ram’s Club is stupid..Would they really write the checks to the people directly? C’mon, the Carolina first year accounting grads are smarter than that!!!!!!!!!!!

    7. Crowder “stonewalled” and wouldn’t talk…Sorta like the “tutor”???

    “These people” think “you people” are idiots! But, remember how politics works, you’ve only got to convince your followers and if 47% percent of your base don’t think rationally for themselves, then all you have to do is convince 4 more percent.

    Interesting statistic that was quoted the other day relating to the shooting in Connecticutt…20% of our populace have mental health issues. Somehow I have a problem finding them “landing in conservative voting polls”…That is a huge number of our populace that “can vote”(granted “can” is the key word), but “can they be manipulated is another key point”. However, I’m not saying 20% of Tar Heel fans have mental issues, but I am saying that a large portion can be manipulated with BS reports that they cannot possibly understand…

    What’s the old saying about “not having to convince all of the people all of the time”, but “most of the people some of the time”?? That is to say, “how much smoke can I blow up your “xxx” today!

  9. ncsu1987 12/20/2012 at 6:42 PM #

    Actually, I think Brian’s assessment at TarheelBlog is pretty accurate:

    “…There is an impression that the probe did nothing but simply confirm UNC’s past conclusions on the matter leaving multiple stones unturned and casting undue aspersions on the AFRI/AFAM department. Of course it is possible the report is just a well-crafted shield meant protect the legacy of Dean Smith and keep the NCAA at bay. It is also possible the report is correct in its assertions.

    Ultimately the NCAA is probably going to look at this report, accept its conclusions and refrain from additional action against UNC…”

    It’s apparent to me upon first read that the entire intent was to handcuff the investigators via mission and scope to prevent all of the questions that nobody over there wants asked.

  10. coach13 12/20/2012 at 8:25 PM #

    And I used to like Jim Martin…what a joke.

  11. vtpackfan 12/20/2012 at 9:00 PM #

    Glad Swaff wouldn’t accept WVU- wouldn’t want anymore piss pour academic schools in the ACC. Look for the coming dominoes to fall where UVa, FSU, GT (and if State had the nads) to exodus to real academically strong conferences (SEC, Big 10, name your BCS school). These conferences run great Universities and if their institutions mess their pants and get caught then the athletics get reprimanded and then move on to bounce back.

    Now Swoff, Martin and the BoG had set the bar so low that there is no arguing admission to to the WVUs and ECUs. It’s just that simple.

  12. WolftownVA81 12/20/2012 at 9:04 PM #

    I would love to know how the scope of the Martin investigation, and I use that term loosely, compares with the scope of the Pool Commission. After all, you’d think that academic fraud would warrant a more vigorous investigation than shoes and tickets. This is sad on so many levels. I’m glad that I’m not a UNC alumni. You can’t wash this stuff off and they will never recoup their reputation IMHO.

  13. WolftownVA81 12/20/2012 at 9:07 PM #

    Only thing left now is for the legislation to take up the matter, or perhaps the SBI. The Chancellor, UNC BOT and now BOG have all struck out – none have any integrity. Amazing that people will sell themselves so cheaply.

  14. highstick 12/20/2012 at 9:46 PM #

    They are called “Whores”, “Prostitutes”, and “Holes”. WolfpackVA81,,,No one, no one, with emphasis, could ever consider “THEM” to be anything other than “sell outs” of academics for the mere chance of wining and they even failed at thatl!

    The issue is “they got caught cheating at football…finally…

    They have been cheating at/in basketball for a long time also, right Dean???

    so where do we go now?

  15. PackerInRussia 12/20/2012 at 10:15 PM #

    ““(There is) no confirmation for speculation that the Academic Support Program for Student-Athletes academic counselors colluded with instructors or administrators to offer anomalous course sections for the benefit of student athletes,” the report stated.”

    What, so they cheated accidentally and that makes it OK? Actually this works out perfectly for them b/c didn’t the NCAA already say that they couldn’t do anything on the academic side b/c they it was available to everyone, not just the athletes? This report seems to follow that narrative pretty well; good thing the NCAA provided this way out ahead of time. Now, everyone can just move on from this unfortunate set of circumstances with a clear conscience.

  16. Lumpy 12/21/2012 at 8:24 AM #

    It’s pretty obvious at this point that the entire Martin “investigation” exists to give the NCAA the escape its been looking for. This report means to tell me that this has been going on since 1997 with rampant grade changes, and not once was one of those grade changes in the favor of an athlete who needed an A to stay eligible? Horse$#|t.
    Where is the outrage in the media over this? If this was Miami, Ohio St., Auburn, or USC the media would be tripping over themselves to debunk this. Why are they so content to stand pat and accept UNC’s word on this?

  17. pack44fan 12/21/2012 at 8:44 AM #

    “Nothing to see here. Let’s move on.” That is the continuing attitude of the UNC homers. It is unfathomable the lengths that the people that are associated with UNC have gone to protect their “beloved” basketball program. If this were NCSU, I can’t imagine the “hell” that would be raining down.

  18. packof81 12/21/2012 at 10:57 AM #

    “Where is the outrage in the media over this? … Why are they so content to stand pat and accept UNC’s word on this?”

    Because UNC has people in the media at all levels. They always have. They have people in the govt, the ACC, you name it. Anything UNC does is OK with them. But everyone else is held to higher standards.

  19. tdouble 12/21/2012 at 10:57 AM #

    A lot of crying over here about the Martin Report. Y’all need a tissue?

  20. wuffapotamus 12/21/2012 at 12:40 PM #

    This is no real surprise and we will patiently await:

    Martin’s follow up report next month
    (prolly a Kane/Martin duel until then)
    SBI Fraud investigation results
    SBI/DA Kupec/Hansboro investigation
    SACS-COC investigation

    N&O have revamped their uncscandal site, looks like they are planning it being around for awhile and expanding with many more articles, documents.

    Looking forward to the ACC season even if UNC is top 25 by the time we play them after many losses like in 2010.

    NCAA said they are watching, there is already a laundry list of infractions, throw in coverup/lying, they will be forced to act or forced to face all of the other institutions’ wrath that do not get preferential treatment (maybe even Congress).

    Irreperable academic reputation damage has been done to UNC and the “Carolina Way”.

    Remember, contrary to what Martin flatuates (lol), they have admitted to a terrible academic scandal, but this doesn’t mean that there wasn’t athletic impropriety. There is NO proof that these are mutually exclusive and mountains of facts/data showing otherwise. Also, a live witness.

    This won’t go away, just might take awhile longer until butch or marv or some disgruntled whistle blower spills the beans completely.

  21. blpack 12/21/2012 at 1:18 PM #

    Some more gum got put into the dam yesterday, that is all. They can’t hide 30+ years of internal corruption forever. It has permeated their culture.

  22. MrPlywood 12/21/2012 at 2:17 PM #

    He had me at ““not an athletic scandal…” How patently obtuse is that? Clearly it is an attempt to deflect attention from the bball team, while selling out the Public Ivy image.

  23. ADVENTUROO 12/21/2012 at 3:33 PM #

    Here is a link to a WTVD article. I have read a few snippets about Sen Berger’s comments….but this is a quick and good read.

    When the Senate Prez says THEY will monitor and the new Guv says that Fraud was perpretrated, then the UNX crowd may finally have defecated in their PC Correct lunch box full of green and EcoFriendly and Glutten Free products….

    You gotta LOVE IT…..

  24. RedandWhite97 12/21/2012 at 4:37 PM #


  25. RedandWhite97 12/21/2012 at 4:39 PM #

    SFN mentioned the 1997 reference and old Deano (as I’m sure others have)

    When I read that in the article this morning, I didn’t read any further. The fact they (including Martin I assume) are trying to say cheating didn’t start until 1997….and had nothing to do with old Deano?!?! Ha ha ha! Whatever!

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