Even more proof that basketball expectations should be restrained

If you thought the out of conference schedule for NC State was going to be tough in 2010 (games against Wisconsin, Syracuse, Arizona and potentially Georgetown), take a look at the ACC schedule.

N.C. State (8 to 10)

Twice: UNC, Wake, Clem, Duke, FSU

Home only: GT, Miami, VT

Road only: BC, Md, UVa

Joe Giglio wrote about this yesterday on the ACC Now blog for the N&O and brought up some very good points.

Even with an heroic 5-5 split against the first group, it would take a sweep of Maryland and Virginia Tech, which won by 20 at the RBC Center last season, to get past the 10-win barrier. C.J. Leslie, Ryan Harrow and Lorenzo Brown would need to be Wall-Bledsoe-Cousins, Part II to win more than 10 ACC games.

I don’t know that the freshmen trio has to be quite as good as Kentucky’s to get 10 wins in the league, but it will need to be close. When I look at the schedule I simply don’t see State beating Duke at all, UNC on the road, Wake on the road or FSU on the road. That’s 5 losses right there. That would mean the Pack would have to sweep the other six games to get more than 10 wins and we all know NC State is good for a sleeper against either Boston College or Virginia on the road.

Joe’s prediction of between 8 and 10 wins for the Wolfpack is right on. If Leslie and Co. dominate the non-conference schedule like Wall and Co. did and other ACC teams struggle a bit early on, maybe I’ll start to change my tune. But until then, I’ll stick by my gut.

I wrote about tempering expectations and avoiding the hype last week and the release of the schedule stuff Tuesday makes me believe it even more. And if you think I’m nuts, I’m not the only one. James over at Riddick and Reynolds (formerly Yet Another NC State Sports Blog) feels the same way.

This isn’t another attempt to dampen excitement about the season. Be excited. Predict great things for the 2010-2011 Wolfpack (like an NCAA Tournament birth). Just do so cautiously.

10-11 Basketball Sidney Lowe

52 Responses to Even more proof that basketball expectations should be restrained

  1. Tau837 05/27/2010 at 4:14 PM #

    Here’s how I look at it. In ACC play, I expect the Pack to be favored to win 7 of 8 home games, with Duke being the only exception. I expect the Pack to be favored to win at least 4 road games: Wake, Clemson, UVA, and BC.

    Now, we all know that we rarely win all of the games in which we are favored. But I’m optimistic that the team can pull an upset or two to offset any upset losses.

    I expect 10 wins and think 11 or 12 wins is very possible.

  2. bradleyb123 05/27/2010 at 4:18 PM #

    Basically, I’m saying Sid really couldn’t be expected to bring in that much in his first couple of years. In fact, he probably exceeded reasonable expectations with the likes of JJ Hickson and Tracy Smith. But they’re only a couple of players, and one was a one-and-doner that probably just came here because of Sid’s NBA ties.

    And chop, you touched on another thought I’ve had about Sid. Maybe he just hasn’t had the talent to win consistently. He has made some head-scratching decisions at times, like seemingly strange substitution patterns.

    But the good thing is I think we have the talent now that we can really begin to blame Sid if and when things turn south.

  3. Packfan28 05/27/2010 at 4:42 PM #

    Its funny how things can change in a year. At this point last year I couldn’t wait for football season to start, and I was dreading the basketball season. Now its the exact opposite. Whatever happens in bball this year, its good to know at least we have the talent to compete. And, contrary to the theme of the article, I am having a hard time restraining my expectations.

  4. burnbarn 05/27/2010 at 4:59 PM #

    If I were a 2011 guy, i would wonder where my playing time is coming from. It may be hard to get a GREAT 2011 class. Critically we need a PG and a big. They don’t have to be world beaters, but they need to be solid.

  5. bradleyb123 05/27/2010 at 6:19 PM #

    Same here, Packfan28. Same here.

    I am cautiously optimistic about football. I’ll hold out hope until I see if we’re really still that bad on defense.

  6. tuckerdorm1983 05/27/2010 at 6:36 PM #

    does this call into question Lowe’s ability to coach? It is the low pt for his tenure at state?

  7. BamaPack 05/27/2010 at 6:42 PM #

    We haven’t beaten Duke in a long LONG time…so I doubt we have much shot next season either.

  8. tootallorder 05/27/2010 at 8:35 PM #

    “We haven’t beaten Duke in a long LONG time…so I doubt we have much shot next season either.”

    Say what?

  9. tvp1 05/27/2010 at 10:27 PM #

    I love the tough schedule. Tons of opportunities for big, headline-grabbing wins. This is the type of schedule that can get us into the dance with a 7-9 ACC record and a ACC tourney win or two (God forbid) a la GT this past year.

  10. Rick 05/28/2010 at 7:05 AM #

    “Basically, I’m saying Sid really couldn’t be expected to bring in that much in his first couple of years. In fact, he probably exceeded reasonable expectations with the likes of JJ Hickson and Tracy Smith. ”

    Why is it unexpected for a coach to bring in good talent?

  11. VaWolf82 05/28/2010 at 7:17 AM #

    Why is it unexpected for a coach to bring in good talent?

    It’s on page 3 of the Fowler book of sports administration:

    Always adjust expectations to match what actually happened.

  12. wolfmanmat 05/28/2010 at 7:28 AM #

    Wake will be bad next year. They return nothing. Their freshman are good; equal to ours, but I take Tracy as the game-changer. Clemson will be down next year. FSU will be down too

  13. Rick 05/28/2010 at 11:23 AM #

    If Lowe cannot win BIG while returning an all ACC player and two other starters, losing only two role players while brining in a top 7 recruiting class including two 5 star guards then when would he ever, EVER win big?

    Outside of Duke we can and should beat anyone else in the league. The league was not good last year and will probably be worse this one.

    Anyone who thinks Sid is a good coach should be drooling about the upcoming season as it should be a great one so they can crow about how right they are. Strangely they seem to be trying to lower expectations. Which tells me they have questions about his abilities.

  14. packalum44 05/28/2010 at 2:33 PM #

    Wake is losing their best player who was the glue to that team, not to mention their coach. Clemson lost Purnell who made his atheltic but skill-inhibited teams effective. Its not like they have a bunch of NBA talent for the new guy. I think we will start the third most talented 5 in the ACC (behind Duke & UNC). I think Tracy will battle Singler for POY. I think Harrow and Leslie will battle Harrison Barnes and Kyle Irving for ROY. Harrow is a rich man’s Jeff Teaugue.

    Basically I expect to get into the dance WITHOUT being on the bubble. Then I expect us to win at least one game. That is certainly not too much to expect. Would I be surprised if we don’t make it??? No. But if that happens its not because of the kids…

    More importantly perhaps, I expect us to have a chance to be better the following year. This means Lowe needs another top tier class and for AT LEAST two of three freshmen to stick around. Plus Vanilla Thunder and Painter MUST improve to become signficant components on the 2012 team. Losing Tracy will hurt us.

    Look, I get that State fans are prone to have high expectations, but ironically, they can be prone to have low expectations too.

  15. choppack1 05/28/2010 at 3:58 PM #

    “I think Harrow and Leslie will battle Harrison Barnes and Kyle Irving for ROY.”

    IMHO, Lorenzo Brown will be our best freshman. While we have returning starters at the PG and SF position – both of whom can start again – we have NO ONE who brings to the table what Brown does…and Brown can play the 1 and 2 spot.

  16. Master 05/28/2010 at 11:34 PM #

    I’m not sure the schedule is “PROOF’ that we should restrain our expectation, but it does present an “OBSTACLE” in our climb to the top. I mean, we do play in the best basketball conference in America, so we should not expect to just have it handed to us.

    That said, I think we will win 11 or 12 games in the conference, play Sunday in the ACC Tournament and play the second week of the NCAA Tournament.

    Nobody takes an arrow for predicting mediocrity, so go ahead and CYA with weasel words. I believe we will be very good and the only thing the schedule “proves” is that we play in the ACC.

  17. TOB4PREZ 05/29/2010 at 9:10 AM #

    Personally, I can’t wait for the Pack to take the court this winter and finally show everyonewhat he’s capable of doing when afforded competent PG play for an entire year. He’s basically got 3 PGs to rotate through until he finds the hot hand each night, with 3 MUCH GREATER chances of finding said hot hand (I’m assuming Javy shows still MORE marked improvement from his prior year, as has been the case in each of the last 2)… so I’m more than confident that we’ll have the best distribution of the ball with the most weapons to score we’ve seen in Sid’s tenure. Because of that, we will make teams pay dearly when doubling down in the post…. and present match up problems for nearly every team we face (even Duke has no ONE on ONE answer for T. Smith). We WILL be a tournament team regardless of the schedule… the only thing that could potentially derail this team is mass injuries. -knocks on wood-
    I’ll maintain a positive, WINNING attitude… since that’s what breeds success. As opposed to sitting by the fire coming up with theory after theory of “while we’ll suck”. Enjoy yourselves at that “party”.

    8-11 wins in conference
    Sid’s THIRD 20+ win season (out of 5)
    minimum of Saturday appearance in tACC tourney
    at least one victory in the dance

    Aim high in case you miss low, it damn sure beats “expecting defeat”.

  18. Rick 05/29/2010 at 9:47 AM #

    TOB,
    I removed your references to “lowe haters” and this site and will continue doing so.

    Now to address your post.
    1) You state he will show everyone what he is capable of when he finally has a competent PG. Then you state he will have 3 to cycle through. At least one of which is the very PG you are maligning. Your logic is deficient. If Javi is not “competent” then why is it a benefit to have him to cycle through?
    2) How does your maintaining a “positive attitude” breed success? I agree it helps the team but how could your attitude affect the team?
    3) You mention people sitting by the fire coming up with theories on “while (SIT) we suck”. I assume you mean why. Who is saying we will suck? Most state we have great talent coming in but are cautious because Lowe has not done ANYTHING in the past to cause great excitement. So a “wait and see” attitude is not a negative as much as it is a healthy dose of skepticism until some actual proof of success is shown.

    I still do not understand why you (and others who post like you) cannot see that people that want to see success are not “lowe haters” nor are they “negative”. They are simply waiting to see some success before crowning him the next Wooden.

  19. TOB4PREZ 05/29/2010 at 9:58 AM #

    Your point about him being the next Wooden is YOUR OWN contention (apparently) … I for one, have merely watched him improve the teams he’s had from the first day of the season to the last, save the 3rd team… of which Gavin sleeping with Costner’s girlfriend derailed completely.
    Also, you completely ignored the part about where I said I’ve seen improvement from Javy in each of the last 2 seasons from the season it preceded. Same is to be said for Tracy Smith… but, Lord knows Sid has NOTHING to do with their improvement. Also, Sid has shown he has a great nack at finding and exploiting a mis-match, but he hasn’t always had a PG that could deliver the goods to take advantage of said mis-match.

    I liked the hire from the beginning, and knew that once he had time to establish himself on the recruiting trail he would become a great recruiter, and guess what he’s done????
    He’s finally going to be able to just “roll the ball out there” ala roy williams over at the pastel hill, and let his athletes RUN and RUN some more…. if you haven’t been able to see the improvements in our program from the day Sid got here until today, then I’m afraid there may be no hope for you. Hang in there though, reading your overt negativity always makes me smile :~)

  20. Rick 05/29/2010 at 2:25 PM #

    “if you haven’t been able to see the improvements in our program from the day Sid got here until today, then I’m afraid there may be no hope for you.”

    You seem to like to show one side of the story without acknowledging there are concerns. He has averaged 5 ACC wins even though he keeps “improving” as per you.

    I acknowledge that things appear to be looking up but until I see actual results I will remain hopefully skeptical.

    I can understand optimism but to call anyone who wants to see proof as negative or a lowe hater is immature.

  21. TOB4PREZ 05/29/2010 at 8:21 PM #

    FWIW- “immature” is deleting posts that aren’t offensive in nature, just contradictory to “your belief”.

    SFN: That is not what happened to your posts. This isn’t the monkey boards where derisive straw man labels are allowed to be applied to large groups of the best fan base on earth.

  22. Rick 05/30/2010 at 7:05 AM #

    TOB,
    I am trying to keep discussions from to devolving to the lowest level.

    It is much harder to realize that two people can look at the same information and come to two different yet realistic and intelligent conclusions, than it is to dismiss anyone that disagrees with you as “haters”. If you just want to slam anyone that has questions about Lowe I suggest you go to the other board, they will love you there.

  23. tann84 05/31/2010 at 12:27 AM #

    Long time reader here, first time poster.

    I’ve been compelled to post because of this post. I understand wanting to see results before you get excited. Thats fine, but one thing I always thought about Lowe is that he was a good game coach. That may show my ineptitude of basketball knowledge. Has he made some questionable decisions, of course. But not one coach is perfect. They all make mistakes, some just have the talent to cover up those mistakes most of the time. I don’t quite understand the heavy criticism of his tenure so far, I mean did people really expect him to come in and have us consistently in the Tourney after 2-3 years? With 0 head coaching experience in the college ranks? Of course it would take some time for Lowe to not only get his feet wet and make adjustments, but get some talent in here. And I mean deep talent. Lowe has never had a decent bench and now he does. Lowe starting 5 have only twice been more talented than half the ACC, the second of those teams had massive chemistry problems with another coach’s kids and no true PG. These aren’t excuses they are facts.

    Sidney has never had the talent to consistently win in the ACC. There were always pieces missing and there were a lot of nights where the talent level just wasn’t there. Sidney’s best team, the last time he had a true point guard, was his first year. The reason why I always thought Sid was a good game coach was because he usually exceeded expectations in tournaments.

    So now there is a an influx of talent the next logical step should be to exceed expectation throughout the course of a regular season. I don’t anyone is here is proclaiming an undefeated season. But are just happy that they have something to look forward to, a better season than last. I’d rather have something to look forward to, something to be excited about than nothing at all. I mean what are our choices right now. Lowe could have landed a top 5-7 class or not. And if he didn’t then no one would have anything to be excited about, then we all can be debbie downers.

    But since that is not the case, lets look forward to next season with some excitement. We haven’t had it in a long time. Its obvious that if Lowe only wins 5 games in the ACC this year, he will be let go and that will be reasonable. He arguably has the second best team in the ACC this year. So you say you want to wait until you see some results before you get excited, why not wait until you see what the guy can do with his best team before you be so ‘cautious’ about him. Remember the past is not always indicative of the future.

  24. Rick 05/31/2010 at 4:40 PM #

    ” So you say you want to wait until you see some results before you get excited, why not wait until you see what the guy can do with his best team before you be so ‘cautious’ about him. Remember the past is not always indicative of the future.”

    That’s the thing is we HAVE seen what he has done.
    If you want to be wildly optimistic that is great. There are a ton of reasons to be optimistic about this year. A ton of talent and experience and I agree we might be the second most talented team in the ACC.
    I applaud you for your optimism but you should not act like someone is nuts to be cautious given the past four years.

    And you are right, history is not always a past indicator of the future but for three years it has been.

    If the facts change, I will change my opinion.

  25. TOB4PREZ 05/31/2010 at 9:25 PM #

    Sidney Lowe is a GREAT “IN-GAME” coach.
    It is what it is. The past 3 years have confirmed that.

    However, you didn’t hear that from me, cuz I would only put something like that on the “monkey board”.

    Whatever that might be.

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