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    Surprised all of you are happy with being mediocre.

    Hmmm… let me see…

    Without getting theological…

    I’ve enjoyed one good wife who I met while at NCState 42 yrs ago…
    We have four good kids… One graduated from State…
    Using the education and the experience I got during my 4 years at State, I’ve had the opportunity to do more different things with success than any other 2 men I know… and I’ve had my failures too….

    4 / 63 == 6.4%

    S0 YEAH… I’ll take 8-4 and a WIN over the Cheaters with a smile knowing… when you total it all up and put it with rest of life — it don’t really make a f#ck in the grand scheme of things…

    … and yes… I still get excited during STATE Football && Basketball games, and I am sure we coulda/should/woulda won 10 Football games this year, and nothing would have finer, IF && IF && IF && NOT THAT && NOT THAT — none of which really makes a f#ck either…

    Nevertheless, I’ll admit it’s fun to BS about it until that invisible line is crossed.

    Thinking ’bout it… I probably shoulda put this in Mr. Dog’s thread, as it might fit there better..

    Yes Sir, Cuz!
    IT ALL went by way TOO FAST, and I mean ALL….

    What you see is what you get…
    Ya”ll know where I coming from….

    -byob… BOTB

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!

    It was a good season. A good record put up by a good team. Beat the hell out of my expectations I can tell yall that. We’re not a great team either though and that’s reflected as well.

    My concern is next year expectations from most (maybe not so much the folks on this board) will be to build off of this year, but in actuality we are going to be losing a lot of seniors off the roster. I’ve not looked at potential cross section of next years team, but wouldn’t be surprised to see us take a step back.

    What I’ll be keeping an eye on is to see if this decent season gives us a bounce in recruiting. We NEED that to happen to take the next step in the coming years. Dave should get a pass for a drop off next season so long as recruiting side of the equation looks promising.


    How can anyone be happy with the outcome of this season? We stunk against teams with winning records. Our record is only good because the league was terrible this year, not because we were any better. I am tired of the same old crap. Surprised all of you are happy with being mediocre.


    Look, when I am at the game or watching the game it hurts. When we lose.

    However, most of us realize that we ain’t Alabama or Clemson or anyone with a fantastic tradition.

    The reason our program is not respected on a national level isn’t because we went 6-2 this year or in 1994 (when we did it last before this year) it’s because we didn’t sustain it.

    You’ve got to understand that it’s almost unheard of that a team like NC State emerges and becomes a Top 10 power overnight. When these transformations do happen it’s usually a gradual process.


    Thomas I am entitled to my opinion, because it isn’t the same as yours doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be entitled to voice it. No need to come at me just because a differing opinion upsets you.

    I hear everyone saying we are on an upward trajectory, but we aren’t. We are on the same trajectory as our previous coaches. My biggest issue is we will do what we always do, renew his contract to a point we can’t make the necessary changes in future we will need to. Chop,give me an example in the last 20 years of a coach after year 5, elevating an average program to an elite one. I cannot think of one.


    Pack1997 – now that’s a good question. I will take a different approach and use a team without tradition.

    Of course the example folks always point to is Virginia tech – which is a good comparison for us.


    P97 Nobody is trying to deny you your opinion, I just don’t think realize that the team did improve and the coach and players are not the same old same old.


    You are right Thomas I don’t see this clear progression. Chop that was 30 years ago. I don’t think that far back translates to today’s game which is why I said 20 years. Dang I am old


    I will join BOTB and others! Yes I hate to loose. However I did not play in one game this year, therefore the outcome is outside my control. I will rant a rave about bad calls. Rant about plays the defy logic. However this team won 8 games. Yes I wanted to beat Clemson, two years in a row this coach and team were 1 to 2 plays from victory. Zero wins in the conference 5 years ago, 6 this year. Progress yes. Where we want to be, no!

    Big picture, we are not going to out recruit Clemson. DD will have the deck stacked against him recruiting against the Cheats. They will be giving away cars and term papers like candy. So, enjoy this weekend and this year.


    Tell you what 1997, pony up a couple of mill and tell Yow who you want to hire in DD’s place, and oh yeah, while you’re at it add a couple more for the the buyout for DD’s contract too. Do I hear crickets? CTC had a hall of fame caliber QB and some pretty good talent to go along with it and still didn’t get to 6 league wins. The line to a tie for the best record in the league was razor thin. You know it comes down to this, if you don’t like the product on the field do what a lot of people are doing to the NFL these days, just don’t watch or go to games. It’s pretty simple.

    Smarter than the average bear


    Jim Grobe, Mack Brown. George O’Leary didn’t exactly set the world on fire.

    But I suspected you would pull something like this. The sample size of coaches who struggled in their first 4 years at a P5 school, then tied the best conference record for schools is very slim.

    Heck, I could throw in Cutcliffe as well – and you can make the case it’s better to be patient than otherwise.

    However, every situation is different. Personally, I see enough similarities in DD and Beamer to think it’s worth a gamble. Also, keep in mind, none of our 3 coaches had their best year in the 5th year.


    One more thing to consider.
    DD has 20 seniors… how many were in his first years class? Just about all made it for 4 years.


    Like it or not the best regular season record in decades. I also do think the real tell will be next year with replacing those seniors. If that is done the Pack is on the way to establishing a program. If not not there yet.


    Tractor – true. It’s not really fair to say “next year or else.” The big question is whether we have a UNC type season this year (1-7 in conference) after this exodus – which could also include several talented juniors or will we be able to do a 4-4 or 5-3 record? There will be weaknesses – but the key is building effectiveness in the trenches. I do think that this staff has done that thus far.


    You know I find it funny that many of you think I shouldn’t offer a differing opinion because I don’t have millions of dollars to throw at it from a donation stand point. You are entitled to look at the program as you see it just as I am. State has gotten plenty of my money over the years, but more than that it has gotten an awful a lot of emotion of ups and downs etc. We continue to repeat the same mistakes and wonder why stay in the same place. We have a good record which is what you point to as your basis for how well we are doing from a program stand point. I point to the fact that we continue to struggle against winning teams, with 20 seniors on the team. We will undoubtedly struggle next year especially if Finley leaves. We will make excuses for DD because we are young and inexperienced. We will struggle the year after and continue to make excuses for DD. Meanwhile, the coaching has not gotten better and there in lies the issue. All the coaches Chop mentioned are good xs os and gameday coaches. They know how to coach college kids, get the best out of them on a consistent basis, and put them in position to succeed. Time will tell who is right, I certainly don’t lose sleep over it because I am use to our football team’s ceiling being around 8-4.


    Well this coaching staff for all of its flaws has shown the ability to take lower tier guys and mold them over the course of their time into a team that can compete with the likes of Clemson.

    If they can begin to recruit higher tier guys and do the same with them then it could bode well for the program.

    I am all for upgrading the coaching staff who would that be and how will they get paid are realities for NCSU.


    I am all for upgrading the coaching staff who would that be and how will they get paid are realities for NCSU.

    The aforementioned is what a good head coach does very well. Coach Dave has made some moves, I expect there will be a new DC in the next few months.



    From McCallum’s mouth to Doeren’s ear! Despite all the hype about our “great defense” (and, in fairness, they did come through in the clutch at times), we were ranked just over 50th in total defense and scoring defense (In total defense we were behind Clemson (6), VaTech (13), Duke (23), “down” FSU (27), Virginia (35), and Notre Dame (44)). We were a respectable 30th in rushing defense, but ranked 97th (!!!) in passing yardage allowed! (For comparison: “banged up and depleted” UNC ranked 67th in passing yards allowed.) So, even though Chubb and Company were doing a more-than-respectable job upfront, we were clearly very weak overall against the pass and that clearly impacted our scoring defense. I am not a deep student of the game (unlike many of my Wolven Brethren on this board (especially CowDog)), but I cringed every time an opponent threw deep on us – once the ball got about 15 yards beyond the line-of-scrimmage, I figured it was no more than a 50/50 chance that we stopped a big play. Huxtable’s secondaries seem to be full of empty spots in the zones and our corners seemed to think that a big hit on a receiver AFTER he caught the ball made up for not breaking up the pass (of course that is better than a missed tackle). If that sounds harsh, I apologize to our players – because I KNOW they worked hard and tried to play as coached. My point is that Huxtable’s coverages always seem to leave room for a big play when we’ve got the opponent backed up for 3rd and long. And all of this was true of a defense that was laden with SENIORS. Hopefully, Doeren will forget the hype, personal loyalties, etc., look at the statstics and hire someone who’s qualified and ready to be our Brent Venables or Bud Foster.


    Despite all the hype about our “great defense”

    How much of this was pre-season?

    we were clearly very weak overall against the pass

    The pass defense was weak last year (as well as kicking) and I knew of no reason to think that either group would be better this year….and they weren’t. Those two groups were shown to be weak again this year which is why I didn’t buy the hype that was building before the ND game.


    What regressed this year was the defense vs the run. The Notre Dam, Clemson and BC games were 3 games where are rushing defense was not as effective as it was last year.


    1. Hines and Gallaspy did a better job of replacing Dayes than I thought they would. We were mostly effective running the football, which for old schoolers like me, is important. I believe this mainly because it allows you to hide your defensive weaknesses more easily.
    2. Our receiving corps was really deep and pretty good. None are spectacular, but they are all good enough that you have to play them honestly. Having a player like JSam definitely got these guys some more favorable match-ups but they made plays when they needed to.
    3. Return game was good as long as Hines was healthy
    1. Pass rush was weak
    2. Placekicking was abysmal, but let’s not talk about the good days.
    3. The Wildturd
    4. Pass defense

    We went 8-4 against a down division, but a significantly better OOC schedule than we have faced in many years. Hux needs to go. We had way too much DL talent to not be dominant on defense.


    I think the defensive struggles comes back to better LB and safety play, safety in particular. I thought our corners did a decent job, but got beat over the top quite a bit. Not sure if that is due to safeties being out of position etc. Tex I would point out Harmon has really come on and think he could be a star. I was very impressed with Hines this year as well. I don’t think the OL opened up huge holes for him but he still made it work. With his size to make it most of the year is impressive as well. I thought Finley regressed a little towards the end of the season, particularly in decision making. It might be I just have that bone head interception in my head from Saturdays game though.


    You know I find it funny that many of you think I shouldn’t offer a differing opinion because I don’t have millions of dollars to throw at it from a donation stand point. You are entitled to look at the program as you see it just as I am. State has gotten plenty of my money over the years, but more than that it has gotten an awful a lot of emotion of ups and downs etc. We continue to repeat the same mistakes and wonder why stay in the same place. We have a good record which is what you point to as your basis for how well we are doing from a program stand point. I point to the fact that we continue to struggle against winning teams, with 20 seniors on the team. We will undoubtedly struggle next year especially if Finley leaves. We will make excuses for DD because we are young and inexperienced. We will struggle the year after and continue to make excuses for DD.

    I welcome your opinion and I don’t necessarily agree with the “donate a million dollars” to rightfully complain about it.

    I do think it’s fair to drill down as to what you think constitutes a good season and acceptable results – and then compare them with NC State’s history.

    Let’s face it – NC State has to kind of be like the Oakland A’s in Moneyball. We don’t have the same advantages as Clemson, FSU, Miami, Virginia Tech, Virginia, UNC or Georgia Tech. All things being equal in the current ACC – and we should probably finish around 10th place if every other team maximizes their potential advantages.

    Luckily, that rarely happens. Going back to the Moneyball analogy – we have to be better at both identifying and developing undervalued assets – both in searching for players and coaches. Dave Doeren has shown a pretty good ability to identify those hidden gems from a player perspective – and he’s done a good job of securing decent coaches. The mere fact that we considered by many a talented team going into the season is de facto proof since our guys were largely undervalued.

    The one thing I didn’t like about DD when he was hired was that he hadn’t built anything. He inherited a great situation at NIU and moved the ball far enough forward to be considered a hot coaching commodity. At State, he’s had to build from the ground up. He’s had to get guys to buy in after huge disappointment. He’s had to mold a mixture of high-ranked talent and lower ranked talent into starts. He’s had to go up against two of the most talented football programs in the country year in and year ot.

    He’s had to deal with be the “second school” here in Raleigh. All available evidence indicates that he got his guys to buy into to what he was selling – at least in the off season and in most cases, heading into the game. During the game, there’s more uncertaintity than I’d like to see.

    But hey, we’ve got to closer to perfect than the other guys. This also means we have to be more patient. Many of the schools mentioned above can have a staff that isn’t great at identifying undervalued assets because they have more advantages than we do. When they screw up, they can fix it easier and faster. OTOH, we’re on our 4th coach in 20 years – and none of these coaches has had a better conference than DD just had – and none of them did better than he just did with their own talent. To me, it’s the height of recklessness to let this guy go because of performance issues unless you’re 95% confident you’ve got a guy who can do this.

    This doesn’t mean that DD is out of the woods either. He still has at least 2 other seasons where his teams performance hasn’t been acceptable given reasonable expectations. I’m not expecting a repeat of 2017 in 2018. I am hoping and I think it’s possible that we go at least 4-4 and are pointing 2019 or 2020 as our next great shot at a title.

    I’ve always said just give us an extra solid season every 3 or 4 years. I can tolerate a couple of bad to mediocre seasons, if I believe that sunnier days are coming. If you’ve followed recruiting this year, you’ll realize that the incoming class thus far is probably the best he’s put together in his tenure. If this year is a taste of what his next 4 years will be like (and let’s face it, this is a huge deviation from years 1-4 – going from 1-7, 3-5, 3-5, and 3-5 to 6-2 is a pretty big jump) – I think they Wolfpack nation will be playing our most meaningful football since the Lou Holtz/Bo Rein era.



    Thanks for being reasonable. I am fine with the 8-4 season, my concern is in the program overall. We are trending upward sin talent no doubt, but out coaching is lacking at in game changes and strategy. As you stated on the advantages, we aren’t going to beat the majority of solid teams because we have better overall talent. Therefore we have to win be beating them in coaching, clock mgmt etc. It’s the fact that in 5 years these things have not gotten better. Unlike the top tier teams you mentioned, we are always going to have some significant weaknesses on our team. The coaching aspect shores that up. It’s why I don’t think we ever truly compete for a championship with DD as coach. I feel like he is the Sendek of college coaching. Good enough to be respectable but not good enough to bring home any hardware. So then the conversation would be if he wasn’t here who would we get thats better, which to me is a terrible question. If an employee isn’t getting it done you don’t say well I don’t think we can get someone better, you keep trying until you get it right. With all of this being said, I also understand the best thing for the program is to wait until Yow is gone for the next coaching hire anyways. I just hate knowing our cieling is 8-4. Compared to past state teams is that good sure, but I would argue last years team was better than this years team. This years tema just ended up with an easier schedule. Anyways what is done is done, on to bball for me, where I think we have some solid things to build off of.


    Is the season over already? Seems like just a few weeks ago that we were in shock over loosing to SoCar.

    I don’t whine over losses like the WF loss. I remember stealing one from FSU when they fumbled at the goal line not too many years ago.

    Speaking of FSU they are always loaded with 4 and 5-star recruits — yet some of us want to discount our win because Fisher chose to play a freshman at QB. They had other QBs to choose from.

    We are losing quite a few seniors, true, but so are most other teams. Contrary to popular opinion losing seniors does not always make a team weaker. We will not know until October of so in 2018 if we are stronger or weaker as a team.

    We will be losing Adams off the O-line. That big-arsed Joshua Fedd-Jackson, #66, who replaced Joe Skulthorpe after he was injured, helped open the holes that Hines ran through to seal the win.

    Our D-line likely won’t have the depth that we had this year but still will be more than adequate. We will have our “Winter Practice” (3 weeks between now and our bowl game), Spring Practice and Fall Camp to develop the 2018 D-line.


    Grey I know we dont agree, but I do love your glass half full mentality.

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