08/26/2014 at 12:05 PM #54461
I skipped to the bottom to respond before I saw the other responses re hunting leases, but I’d agree totally. Wouldn’t be so danged high per acre if we didn’t have stupid guys leasing land…Used to be able to lease for $3 an acre until the Floridians and idiots ran the prices up…BTW, I’d rather hunt turkeys that “snack birds” even though it may be more “gentlemanly”.
"Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!08/26/2014 at 1:02 PM #54462
…. Ok… so “everybody’s” happy getting a safe 8% net return … let’s see… in the 1930’s that land was about $5.00 acre… so that’s $395,000 for the whole tract… so 8% net === $31,600 each year…. that’ll pay some bills…
On 56,000 productive timber acres that’s FIFTY FIVE CENTS per acre.
Blue Pine, wet Beetlewood and swamp logs are worth more that…
Or if you like my trees/acre ratio :>}
… that’s ONE TREE cut off every ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY SEVEN timber acres… or 316 trees cut a year.
Math is your friend.#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!08/26/2014 at 3:52 PM #54475
Reminds me of a former client who had a huge amount of timber land in eastern SC…He had to rush a sale and timing probably was not the best, but they’d spotted those woodpeckers that were on the endangered list on the property and rammed the sale through before the environmental types could mess it up and stop the sale…Seems like that track was in the ball part of in excess of 200,000 acres.
"Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!08/26/2014 at 4:36 PM #54476Daniel_Simpson_DayParticipant
Sorry to continue on my tangent, but…
“…the best bird dog I ever had was a Brittany.” – BoB, I like Brittanys, but they better stay out of the cockleburs.08/26/2014 at 4:52 PM #54477
@DSD… you GOTT that one right… but since the best House Dog I ever had was the same Brittany (13 yrs)…
I put up with the cockle-burrs…
She loved my kids when they were little…#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!08/26/2014 at 5:58 PM #54478
Ever hunt with a Boykin? I’ve got a friend who raises them, but getting one is like buying a Big Green Egg…
"Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!08/26/2014 at 6:11 PM #54479
^Nope… and I haven’t done much hunting of any kind since the Brittany passed on…
Used to spend lots of time in the woods… mostly without a gun…
Not any more… and yes… I miss my woods…#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!08/27/2014 at 10:45 AM #54503
Agreed on missing the woods…I sat in a tree stand many times with a good book and just enjoyed being there…
"Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!09/10/2014 at 1:59 PM #55930primacyoneParticipant
NCSU announces new sales agreement with 56,000 acres going to Timber REIT.
You were right on the money with your $900K number bill_on_the_beach. NCSU reports only receiving roughly $900K the past couple of years from timber sales. That is down from the $2 million plus roughly per year in previous years.09/10/2014 at 2:45 PM #55932packbackr04Participant
i still dont see how selling this property at that price is a good thing for North Carolinians?09/10/2014 at 8:24 PM #55945Fastback68Participant
I saw a Save Hoffman Forest sign while driving to Plymouth this afternoon. Will have a chance to discuss what 56,000 acres should generate in income per year this weekend. $900,000 is a joke gone very, very bad.09/12/2014 at 6:22 PM #56036tjfoose1Participant
And now the University is LOWERING the cost by $19 mil. Something stinks at NC State.09/15/2014 at 4:12 PM #56348Fastback68Participant
Math Change – 56,000 acres should generate $700-$800 per acre when first thinned at 15 years and $2,000-$3,000 per acre when clearcut at 25 years. Take an average of $3,200 per acre and that’s $179,200,000/25 years = $7,168,000 in annual revenue. Add another $780,000 at a below average hunt lease per acre price of $10. There is another 23,000 acres of swamp and agriculture which should generate income. State has a School of Forestry that places graduates in corporate america where the whole concept is to maximize profit. Why State hasn’t taken the same approach over the last 80 years with this asset is beyond me. Heads would roll in a corporate setting if 79,000 acres only generated $900,000 to $2,000,000 in revenue per year.
Keep in mind that nature does all the work in this scenario. State doesn’t have to maintain a fleet of trucks and logging equipment. Thinning and clearcut bids are received from the paper company which does all the work. State contracts out the cleaning, spraying and replanting of pine seedlings.
Money is not static and even though the sales price of $131 million is probably below market value, that does not mean the proceeds can’t be invested wisely. Will the $131 mil generate close to $8 million in revenue per year after broker or advisor fees? I doubt it but hope springs eternal.
I know I have a biased slant in that selling a family heirloom is a sin. This is the largest University held forest in the world. I just wish ownership between my alma mater and the State of North Carolina could have gradually changed hands at a fair price.09/15/2014 at 8:51 PM #56357
Good info, Fastpack..this thing wreaks!
"Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!09/21/2014 at 10:12 AM #56763StateFansKeymaster
BTTT12/05/2014 at 12:38 PM #64204GowolvesParticipant
Well the sale is now dead. I guess it goes back on the market.12/05/2014 at 1:34 PM #64210
One of things I’ve uncovered about this mess is that the Federal Government has a “easement” of some sort on a large portion of the tract.
That generates a little revenue for the current owners, but it also transfers intact to the new owners when sold, as I understand it…
The purpose of the easement is “military training and such…” which given the proximity to Camp Leguene and Cherry Point made a whole lot of sense at the time the easement was granted…
Now that, for all practical purposes, would make most any kind of development virtually impossible…
I guess they will just have to find somebody who knows how to grow trees and make a profit…
or sell for less, which considering the conversation, makes no sense whatsoever…#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!12/05/2014 at 1:54 PM #64213Daniel_Simpson_DayParticipant
“Now that, for all practical purposes, would make most any kind of development virtually impossible…” BotB, I’ve always assumed the majority of the property is undevelopable by today’s standards anyway because of wetlands and bad soils. If the owner did grant the feds/military an easement for training, I would bet money the majority of that area is wet. Either that or someone made a booboo.12/05/2014 at 2:09 PM #64214primacyoneParticipant
The deal is off:
The Endowment Fund of North Carolina State University said Friday that a deal to sell the 79,000-acre Hofmann Forest near the coast is off after the two firms planning to buy the land couldn’t finalize the financial contingencies of the contract.
The research forest will continue to be owned by the endowment fund for the benefit of the university’s College of Natural Resources, officials said, adding that the endowment board and the Natural Resources Foundation hope to find another buyer.
“The sole mission of the N.C. State Natural Resources Foundation is to benefit the College of Natural Resources, its students and its faculty, and the sale of Hofmann Forest has always been about that purpose,” Chancellor Randy Woodson said in a statement. “We will always strive to make strategic choices that provide the best educational opportunities for students.”
N.C. State had planned to sell 56,000 acres of Hofmann Forest to Resource Management Service of Alabama, a timber management firm, and the remaining 23,000 acres to Hofmann Forest LLC, an Illinois-based agribusiness firm that planned to develop part of the property.
The two firms would have paid a total of $131 million for the land.
The land in Hofmann Forest was bought in the 1930s for research and to provide income for N.C. State’s forestry program, but university officials have said that the land isn’t generating enough revenue and isn’t being used very much anymore for research.
A group of N.C. State professors, foresters and environmentalists filed suit in September 2013, alleging that the sale would violate the state constitution’s mandate of conserving public lands for public benefit. They argue that the school has downplayed the land’s research value, as well as its environmental role, and that the endowment board didn’t obtain public input on the proposed sale, as required under state environmental regulations.12/05/2014 at 2:26 PM #64216
^DSD… starting from the hard surface road … you GOTT to cross the “good land” to get to the “bad land”… and it’s a pretty safe bet our “military” ain’t walking” … in which case, the “easement” provides for that crossing and mucks up a whole lot more than wetlands and other land which would be unsuitable for building…
Now … I have this clear mental picture of a bunch of HumVees and Artillery in a WalMart parking lot on Black Friday… that might discourage some shoplifters…#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!07/13/2016 at 10:21 PM #104932
In today’s news …. 7/13/16
NC State to sell timber from Hofmann Forest, retain ownership of land
$3M a year payments… for fifty years..no money down apparently…
at $2K a acre that’s less than 1000 acres a year necessary to harvest to make payments divided by 79000 acres == 79 years
not counting the trees you have not planted yet to be harvested 30yrs from now…
I gott my degree from NCState in Finance not Forestry…
but I know some trees….
and I’m not getting what the good doctor Woodsen is saying …
“This is win for the University…”
which somehow may help us explain our football and basketball teams results….
damn… Pat and the General Assembly mighta, coulda, woulda done better than this…
idk…#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!07/14/2016 at 8:14 PM #104936
Only 54,344 in timber, Bill…I’m not up on timber prices, but what’s the value of the payments from the military also if State retains ownership? Not enough info to totally evaluate the “net”, etc.
"Whomp 'em, Up, Side the Head"!07/14/2016 at 8:50 PM #104937
^Math is our friend….#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
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