10/15/2014 at 5:11 PM #59008StateFansKeymaster
This entry will on a topic that we have discussed at various times over the last couple of years but I think remains relevant in light of NC State’s c
[See the full post at: Recruiting: the lost years impacting the current years]10/15/2014 at 5:35 PM #59009Pack85EEParticipant
I read the article about an hour ago. The comparrison between BC, Duke and our beloved pack is sickening. Add up the number of Freshmen and Sophmores starting and on the two deep. NCSU 26, BC 16, Duke 15. With most of our 25 on defense and the mistakes that are attributed to youth that explains a lot about our Defense. But you can call for Huxtable to be fired if you want.10/15/2014 at 6:26 PM #59010WV WolfKeymaster
I appreciate the kind words about my old article.
10 players on Tom O’Brien’s first team in 2007 made it to the NFL.
13 players from Chuck Amato’s first team in 2000 made it to the NFL.
8 players from Mike O’Cain’s first team in 1993 made it to the NFL.
Unless I’m missing somebody, Dontae Johnson (who I underestimated although I mentioned him as a possibility) is the only guy from Doeren’s first team in the NFL. Of course it will be a few years before we can get the final total.10/15/2014 at 6:43 PM #59011
Very eye opening. This should give some idea of the miracle that our run at FSU truly was.
“but only Davis receives consistent playing time.”
I have a mind-fart myself every now and then but who did you mean? The only Davis on the roster is true freshman, Elliot Davis who I believe is being red-shirted.10/15/2014 at 7:18 PM #59012YogiNCParticipant
And to top it off we are the 125th youngest team out of 128 in FBS. That is in freaking credible. And yet there are those who whine about the loss to BC and Clemson. I think we have done an incredible job just to be where we are. Time for the whiners to sit down and take a chill pill. When DD has had 4 full years THEN we evaluate. Until then cut them all some slack!!!!!! Players and coaches!!!
Smarter than the average bear10/15/2014 at 8:13 PM #59013john of spartaParticipant
who on the 2013 Wolfpack team will be suiting up on Sundays? The first name….. Maybe.10/15/2014 at 9:19 PM #59015GoPack83Participant
Drew Davis RS Sophomore DE from Broughton High School in Raleigh10/16/2014 at 6:06 AM #59016Avid109Participant
That explains a lot. Unfortunately, too many fans fail to take this into account. Patience is (understandably) scarce among the Wolfpack faithful.10/16/2014 at 8:37 AM #59017GeneParticipant
Vaguely remember somebody telling about Frank Beamer’s tenure at Va. Tech. It went something like this, first you lose by a lot, then you lose by a little, and then you start winning by a little and then you win by a lot.
I’m hoping we can follow a similar pattern with Doeren.10/16/2014 at 8:43 AM #59018TexpackParticipant
TOB’s retirement from recruiting was masked by Wilson and Glennon and I’m pretty sure our roster depth and quality will be a good bit better heading into next Fall than it was when DD arrived. This is why DY got rid of TOB. She could see the future by looking at recruiting and she saved us a year in the rebuilding process by pulling the trigger when she did.
I still question whether Huxtable can do the job.10/16/2014 at 9:39 AM #59020YogiNCParticipant
Where is Reggie Herring when you need him?
Smarter than the average bear10/16/2014 at 9:51 AM #59021KhanParticipant
Looks like Frank Beamer was interrupted before he finished talking: “Then you win by a little, then you win some/lose some….”10/16/2014 at 10:20 AM #59022ryebreadParticipant
We’ve all known the cupboard was pretty bare outside of a couple of positions. That’s why Yow made the move when she did.
That move was a calculated risk. She had something better to sell to the next coach than if the thing ran its course and hit rock bottom. We should have (and probably did) get a hotter name than we would have had we let TOB lie in the bed he made recruiting wise.
The hope had to be though that a better coach would be able to keep the ship minimally afloat, pick up the recruiting. It’d take a slight dip at worse (5-7 land?) and then start heading back upwards. That seemingly hasn’t happened.
I hope this staff recruits better than TOB. It shouldn’t be hard. Unfortunately, I’m not sure they’re maximizing what they have, which admittedly isn’t much.
Regardless, we all know that we’re going to have to recruit our way out of this mess. That will require fan patience. The process would be much easier though if we could get that “0 for ACC” monkey off of our backs. I’m not convinced we should actually be winless at this point.10/16/2014 at 10:48 AM #59024PapaJohnParticipant
1) DD said it on Monday
2) The PP article laid it out very well.
We’ve got to be patient. It is rough to watch on Saturdays, but we are trying to build a quality team from nothing. He’s building a program. It’s going to take a few years.
How long does that take? No idea. But you have to figure the first year he was at a disadvantage recruiting because he didn’t know the area and didn’t have the contacts. So his second year would be when we should start to see him making inroads into quality recruiting in the geography. Each following year he should get better.
We got very lucky with Brissett. Without him, we are basically the same team as last year. Some average offensive talent, and very little ACC quality defensive talent. Probably the worst team in the league.
I think it would be one heck of a coaching accomplishment if we made a bowl this year.10/16/2014 at 11:19 AM #59025KhanParticipant
^ “We got very lucky with Brissett. Without him, we are basically the same team as last year.”
With Brissett, we’re still basically the same team as last year. You can make a legitimate case that the offense is better. But so far, we have very little to show for it. Until we win an ACC game, we’re always going to be basically the same team as last year. Hopefully, that will change by the end of the year. If it doesn’t, it will be appropriate to examine some other possibilities as to why that is the case, beyond just recruiting. Until then, yeah, ok, recruiting’s the deal.10/16/2014 at 11:22 AM #59027charger17Participant
TOTALLY AGREE!!!! BRAVO!!!!
And don’t interpret this posture toward our program as cart blanche to just do your best and we’ll see. No, DD has standards he has to meet, don’t worry. But let’s make those standards realistic.
Even, when year three doesn’t turn out to be the golden year we want (see cutcliffe) we need to keep a realistic timeframe in mind. I mean, Mullen has had much higher ranked recruiting classes at Miss St., and he’s 33-27 overall regular season through his first five seasons. Year six is his results year.10/16/2014 at 12:36 PM #59028MPParticipant
If only out of politeness, it would have been appropriate to link jrcox4’s outstanding work placed in the forums THIS WEEK.10/16/2014 at 2:07 PM #59036PapaJohnParticipant
How long did it take Cutcliffe to get Duke to where they are today? Was it four or five years? And then he won 10 games last year, won the division, and won some Coach of the Year awards.
Remains to be seen if he can sustain it or even repeat it, but if I remember right, they only won 1 game the year before he was hired.
He’s proven to be a heck of a coach, hope we are as fortunate. But I think that’s the sort of timeline we are looking at, give or take a year.10/16/2014 at 2:51 PM #59038
Drew Davis RS Sophomore DE from Broughton High School in Raleigh
I can’t believe the gremlins went back and put Drew back on the roster after I looked. 😉10/16/2014 at 3:42 PM #59040BJD95Keymaster
I go back to what I said (without statistical backup) last summer – ANYTHING in 2013 or 2014, in terms of results, is pure bonus. Playing with house money. The cupboard simply is THAT EMPTY.
We need to see SOMETHING tangible in 2015, and if on the right track, we should be at least pretty good by 2016.
All that is not to say we certainly WILL get payoff from this pain. We just can’t know yet. It would be just as much of a dart toss to say that Doeren WILL build a winner as it is on the flip side (to say that Doeren will NOT).
Time will tell. I just don’t think on-field results so much as give us a hint until next October.10/17/2014 at 7:06 AM #59048graywolfParticipant
DD and staff are doing a very good job of recruiting talent. But you cannot recruit 85 players in one year and you have to take your lumps when you play freshmen is as many roles as we do currently. It’s frustrating to see us lose but I still back DD and this staff because I think they can get the job done.
Patience is not something we have as State fans. Yow will give DD 4 years to solve this problem. I think this will work out in the end.10/17/2014 at 8:00 AM #59049choppack1Participant
Gray – bs. We’re plenty patient. The fact that we still had north of 45k last Saturday shows just how patient we are… All we’ve done is be patient.
I just hope us fans get a little something for our efforts…2 conference wins would give some indication the on field results can reach the recruiting results.
Dd’s recruiting has been good so far. He deserves a chance to get his players in provided we can finally win a conference game or two… Still 5 conference games left and a chance to build some mo.10/17/2014 at 9:32 AM #59054BJD95Keymaster
For the record, a second consecutive winless ACC season wouldn’t make me pull the plug. But I would be skeptical going into 2015, and that would be very bad for program building.
That’s also pretty much the only scenario where I could see Doeren not getting (or deserving) 4 seasons, minimum.10/17/2014 at 11:13 AM #59059choppack1Participant
However, it will be very difficult to recruit in an environment if we are 1-15 or 0-16 in conference over 2 years. Looking ahead to year 3 it will be difficult to recruit if we haven’t won more than 3 conference games in 3 years.
My main point of concern right now is that we are seeing almost a replica of last years season where we played hyper-focused and out of our heads for our first big game, then the wheels fell off. There are 5 games to change that and give the fans something to excited about.10/17/2014 at 11:19 AM #59060
Patience is not something we have as State fans.
Gray – bs. We’re plenty patient.
“Some of the State fans can be patient part of the time.
And part of the State fans can be patient some of the time.
But all the State fans can’t be patient all the time.”
Was it Abe Lincoln who said that? Maybe Bob Dylan misquoting Lincoln? Who knows. We know for sure it was Greywolf who screwed it up correlating it to State fans.
No matter it’s not a question of being patient. It’s a matter of keeping our word. We said (through our authorized spokeswoman, Debbie Yow) we would give Doeren 5 years. What the hell is all the talk about reneging on our deal if he doesn’t win a conference game in his first 2 years? Is that in his contract?
Doeren apparently is setting up our offense to be run by a dual threat QB. Our defense is being installed to able to stop the epidemic of spread offenses. IMNSHO Doeren is building to have a top 25 program and isn’t nearly as concerned about winning a couple of conference games as we are. I’m equally sure he is trying to win every game inside the parameters of the offense he is setting up and the defense he is setting up. AFTER his basic offense and defense is installed I would not be surprised at all to see personnel groups that are formed to stop the run where appropriate and groups to thwart the passing game of some teams. We are not there yet. IOW Doeren’s priorities may not be what our priorities are.
I disagree with the “you gotta win to recruit well” line of thinking. Winning may make recruiting easier but DD and crew are proving right now that he can recruit with or without winning seasons. He does have the number one defensive recruits 2 years in a row. That’s about as good as it gets on that side of the ball. We may be missing out on some of the Marvin Austins of the state but if so, too bad… or good.
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