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Looks like its not the fanbase that’s having serious doubts DD can get the job done with football program. Been a tough week so far as several top recruits announced they have de-committed. One is Cornerback Jacobe Clement (Charlotte, N.C./Mallard Creek) who was a 3 star cornerback. Another followed suit soon after being Emeka Emezie, a top WR from NC.
Rumor is after the loss to ECU, they decided Greenville was a better fit and program. Hope this is not a trend as the season could get really ugly both on and off the field quickly.And this is what concerned about the ecu game. You have a couple of years to strike…had we won at ECU, the atmosphere surrounding the program would be totally different. If he had lost to an established coach, it might have been different. But when you are no longer the new thing and you have nothing established to sell, the selling becomes quite difficult.
But when you are no longer the new thing and you have nothing established to sell, the selling becomes quite difficult.
Fortunately recruits have parents and coaches to mentor them and advise them. The problem we fans have with evaluating what we “have to sell” is we don’t know from squat what “sells” to recruits and their families. Not every recruit is going to choose ECU over NC State because ECU won with a new coach. Many parents will be looking at the value of the education available at NC State. Many will want their sons in a program where citizenship, character, family orientation, and the value of their sons associating with other young men who value the same. Some parents care if their sons are mentored by men of character and values and associate with other young men with the same outlook — not that Scotty Montgomery doesn’t have character and values. But nobody from NC State has tortured and killed a small dog to get even with his girl friend. We have had one or 2 dismissed for riding a mo-ped on the side-walk and a few others suspended for violating team rules.
Grey – I didn’t say that. I just said that the loss makes his job more difficult and success less likely.
Another losing conference record will do the same. Every recruit is different. But most with the option want to play for a team that is going to play nationally significant games.
I think DD is ethically doing things the right way – and I expect nothing less. I would prefer it if he could get the Carter rocking.
I think it would make his job much easier.
I can’t put much faith in an institution that required me to meet a structural engineer from the physical plant to examine the possible damage to the bricks from the pickup truck and pig cooker I want to pull across the brickyard.
All that AFTER I filled out two pages of paperwork to request the ability to cook a pig on the brickyard.
Any place that reeks of that level of bureaucractic control will not stand for any fun to last long.
McCallum
Rumor is after the loss to ECU, they decided Greenville was a better fit and program.
If they think ECU is a better fit, it probably is especially if they decided that after one game. Better to lose them now than later. I wish them success there.
Grey – I didn’t say that. I just said that the loss makes his job more difficult and success less likely.
I could agree that his job might be more difficult. I was responding to your statement “the selling becomes quite difficult.
Another losing conference record will do the same. Every recruit is different. But most with the option want to play for a team that is going to play nationally significant games.
It’s too soon to say we have a losing conference record this year. How we compete will be more important than the record at this stage of our program build. If we screw the pooch in the L’ville, FSU, Miami, Clemson and EweNC games, it will be more difficult. The ND game should give us as much info as to how we are doing as the ECU game.
I think DD is ethically doing things the right way – and I expect nothing less. I would prefer it if he could get the Carter rocking.
I think it would make his job much easier.
More than ethically… the young men who go through his program will be better men and better prepared for life.
It’s hard to get Carter rocking with 80% of the fans in the parking lot in the 4th quarter. You don’t see that at Clemson, FSU, L’ville, Tennessee, South Caroling, etc.
Ah YES, the infamous PP or Physical Plant. I remember the Technician articles about how many man hours went into the brickyard. It was the STUDENTS that put in the logo….late one night. They PP decided to remove it, but eventually left it.
There was also several articles about the fact that the PP would go out to the brickyard and “turn over” the bricks, after dusting them thoroughly. I did witness that little event more times that I can remember as I always seemed to have one class at the RIP Harrelson Hall.
Pity about the recruits. That is not really surprising based on our record and our lack of in state success. Coach D had, in my opinion, a longer honeymoon. I certainly hope that we show more poise and excitement for the rest of the season. I still have my LTR’s at CF and will be there for all the home games and will stay until the end of the game.
I can’t put much faith in an institution that required me to meet a structural engineer from the physical plant to examine the possible damage to the bricks from the pickup truck and pig cooker I want to pull across the brickyard.
All that AFTER I filled out two pages of paperwork to request the ability to cook a pig on the brickyard.
Did you have to request the ability to cook a pig on the brickyard or was it permission you had to request? They are different, you know.
I was superintendent on a portion of the installation of the brickyard. The bricks are laid on compacted sand. I find requiring you to meet a structural engineer to be in your as well as the “institution’s” best interest.
Interesting you bring up paper work to drive across the brickyard McCallum. I thought it was just an isolated pain in the butt from an recent experience. As the coach for the Pack Fishing team, we asked for permission to place a bassboat (mine) on the brickyard during Club Sports Day. You would think we had ask to rearrange the bricks after all the paperwork and needed precautions to not damage the bricks. Under a watchful eye, we carefully pulled the boat across the bricks by placing plywood down as we proceeded. After we got set up, here come that dang US Army issue tank of a truck from the Farm House. Without any precautions or wood. It had to weigh 20 times more than my bass boat. Guess its all about who you know at the “institution”.
The best part was after submitting the paperwork, the paperwork getting forwarded to the physical plant, the physical plant sending out a structural engineering to inspect my 86 Toyota pickup and the cooker (we only burn wood), the lecture on protecting bricks, students and myself was the guys from the physical plant driving their trucks all over the bricks (trucks much heavier than mine).
Even better was the maintenance guys from the physical plant coming to eat with us (driving their heavy trucks across the bricks) and telling me they put me through the ringer because they hated to be pestered by the students.
State being State.
Pretty analogous to the way they handle everything else.
McCallum
they decided Greenville was a better fit and program.
Not Greenville, but Mongtgomery. And not only in comparison to NC State. He’s going to be a problem on the recruiting trail for a lot of bigger programs, and he will be for at least 2-3 years even if he doesn’t win. Winning will only make it worse, especially for the Wolfpack.
That AD may turn out not to be so dumb after all if this was his guy all along. Still think firing the former coach was wrong and unwarranted, and dumb, but maybe not so dumb, if…
It’s too soon to say we have a losing conference record this year.
I don’t know, Grey… I wish it was. Not looking that way from here. And I’m the optimist! :/
How we compete will be more important than the record at this stage of our program
I think it is naive to think this in year four. Maybe from the AD but I don’t believe so from the fans. For example, I talked to a former Sheridan player recently and he was ready to wash his hands of DD. My assumption is he knows more about football than I do.
I think it is naive to think this in year four. Maybe from the AD but I don’t believe so from the fans. For example, I talked to a former Sheridan player recently and he was ready to wash his hands of DD.
3 seasons and 3 games is IMO too short a time to judge a coach rebuilding a program. Montgomery stepped into a relatively stable program. Fedora did also. Doeren did not.
I said it badly about how we play verses the record. I had in mind playing 6 teams in the top 25 at the start of the season. Were we in the Coastal Div our conference record would be a more valid measurement for acceptable progress.
If the program is as bad as some say it is, we are in for a new HC who will get 3 years to become a top 25 team. Then wash, rinse, repeat. If the program is in good shape, get behind the guy the 4th and 5th year.
If we fire every coach we hire who does not rise to the top of the Atlantic Division at the start of his 4th year, we might as well disband football and spend the money on soccer, LaX and field hockey.
Women’s soccer is now ranked.
It is not about firing someone if they don’t rise to this or that. Dapper Dave is a mile in over his head, improvement is not on the horizon and the jack leg kept the inept defensive coordinator.
McCallum
Montgomery stepped into a relatively stable program. Fedora did also.
Uh Fedora walked into a program amidst an NCAA investigation with scholarship reductions and facing possible further sanctions, while still out recruiting NC state.
ECU is ECU, shouldn’t have to really elaborate on that. Went 5-7 overall and 3-5 in the American Conference.
I had my reasons for starting that Les Miles thread….
Here’s my take on DD:
I fully agreed with and supported his hiring.
I have fully supported him during his first 3 years here, even though I haven’t been happy with results.
My support took a hit after the ECU loss. It took a further hit after I saw the ECU-Va Tech result.
So the turning point, in my mind, comes this Saturday.
Win vs Wake and I’ll step back inside the window. Lose and I’m over the ledge. It’s very simple.We CANNOT continue losing to the in-state schools – ANY of them. The recruiting battle in NC will be lost before it ever begins, as you all know.
Y’all ponder this and maybe you’ll realize the real reason I started that other thread.
Find me a nut…
Y’all sleep well. I’ve got a day of work to finish.
SaigonwolfLooking like ECU really got up for the Pack, as they haven’t won since. We were their game of the year. Them folding afterwards is really making us look awesome. SC is not very good this year. VT who knows.
Meh.
Yes, I realize it’s a different time and the game has changed, at least for the big boys. But NC State is far from one of the big boys in the world of college football. It has neither the reputation, luster, nor recruiting base to reasonably expect a quick fix.
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2 9
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2 8The well documented first 6 seasons of Beamer at VT. But yes, the reality today is that you’d be hard press to find any school outside the Ivy that would be that patient with those records.
So for a school like NC State, there is no tried and true path to a successful football program, not with the timelines of 2016. It’s more a fingers crossed crap shoot just to get the right coach, and that has to come at the right time, and under the right circumstances, just to earn enough clout to last enough seasons to establish his program.
Then the real challenge comes when it’s time to try to keep ’em.
Best recent example is probably Duke. Right time, right coach, at right place in career and life.
That said, I’m about where Saigon is.
Guy is 0-2 vs ECU. Its really not unreasonable to fire him over that alone. There’s not another school in the SEC or ACC outside of Wake Forest that would keep a coach doing that.
#1) We WILL have a losing conference record. It’s signed, sealed, and delivered.
#2) The entire football program is lifeless. This seems to be a correlation to our seemingly apathetic head coach.
#3) I’d give Dave about a 1% chance of becoming the next Beamer
#4) I question the guys loyalty. If, and HUGE IF, Dave shows any signs of life at any point of the remainder of his stay here he’ll jump ship as if his feet were on fire. This one is my own personal speculation, but I’ve seen nothing from this guy that would indicate he loves NC State.
#5) Hanging our hat on Dave’s ability to recruit based on him being a “nice and wholesome” guy to build a winning program in this college football landscape is a bit fatuous.Someone alluded to it in a different thread a couple of weeks ago, but they nailed it: Debbie Yow was never looking to hire a personality bigger than her own. She got her “yes” man. Unfortunately I think NC State needs a coach with a bit of edginess to be successful here, that combined with coaching ability. I don’t really see her going after that personality type. It is what it is.
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