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    In the larger sense… “cheating” in sports is a clear logical extension of “Culture of Winning in Sports”…

    How can Coach tell his kids… “Do whatever it takes to win?” “Leave it all on the field or court.” and “Reach back and put a little extra on the ball.” and NOT lead by example and do the same with respect to those things over which Coach has responsibility for or influence over… specifically… academics, recruiting and ‘personal issues’?

    How much difference is there between what happens between Coaches and kids on the field and in the weight room?

    It is a given…Coach has a personal relationship with his kids and cares about them…
    If he does not… he’s not in the Coaching business for very long… at any level.

    How can we expect Coach NOT to do everything he possibly can to keep his kids in school?
    How can we expect Coach NOT to do everything he possibly can to recruit kids to play for him?
    How can we expect Coach NOT to do everything he possibly can to help his when they have ‘personal issues’, especially those that involve ‘the authorities’?
    (i.e. – keep the kids stupid sh$t out of the newspapers…)

    After all … they are kids… and Coach is an adult, a mentor, a father figure…
    How can we expect the kids not to expect these things from Coach?

    There is NO One Line between right and wrong …
    just a large gray area whose two lines are largely determined by perception.

    To put that another way…

    Everybody cheats… according to somebody else…
    It’s just a matter of degrees…

    It’s little wonder that some conclude… the best ‘Cheaters’ have the best W-L records?

    I’m not apologizing for anyone… but it is the nature of the beast that regardless of the personalities .. these things will happen.

    And there’s no question… that in some places and over a long period of time…. “operating within the gray area” can and has become quite acceptable and “institutionalized”.

    The Carolina Way.
    Boeheim and Syracuse.
    … and many others… too numerous to mention… all the way back to the beginning of organized sports..

    For all long as we have played ‘ball’… there have been ‘cheaters’…


    On the other side of the street… Enforcement, in spite of what the Law may literally state, is also subjective and full of ‘gray areas’ within a labyrinth of process and procedure, imperfectly implemented by people.

    More important… there is an irrefutable, fundamental economic conflict within the “Enforcement” community that affects rich and poor alike… which is to say…

    If Enforcement got rid of all the criminals/cheaters… Enforcement would have nothing to do and would therefore put themselves out of business.

    So Enforcement will never do that… Enforcement’s goal is to ‘control the criminals/cheaters’, extract large sums of money from them in order to be self financing and grow, not shrink, their “Enforcement” business… and to exert some political influence and pass some more laws to enforce in order to create new markets for their enforcement business…

    To sum all this up…
    People, by their nature, cheat…
    Enforcement, by it’s nature, has a clear disincentive NOT to punish cheaters…

    So what are you going to do?

    Sit home and binge watch Netflix?
    or Play the game …
    and just smile when your Rival gets busted…
    and hope like hell your Coach doesn’t?

    Oh yeah… I left out “moral outrage and righteous indignation”… for good reason…

    Now for those who insist on finding perfect solutions to imperfect problems…

    This one is really easy…

    Just take down the scoreboard and have free admission.
    Sell cold beer and hot dogs at the games to cover the expenses.

    Those who love the game would still play and coach.
    Those who are too old to play and who don’t coach would still watch.

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!


    ^As soon as money is involved in any way, even the sale of hotdogs and beer, the whole cycle starts again.

    Unfortunately the whole things can be summed up by the popularity of the phrase, “If you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’.”



    There’s a rule of thumb out there.

    Cheating 10 mph over the speed limit is not acceptable for anyone but the arrogant.



    ^I don’t even know what the actual speed limit is on 440.



    ^I don’t even know what the actual speed limit is on 440.

    60 MPH, but try that in all but the very right hand lane and you’ll get run over. 65 – 70 is the flow of traffic.

    That being said I’m not sure how to address what you said here Bill. If two teams are playing and one team is cheating (Patriots for example), what is the reaction? One thing that drives me nuts about college basketball today is the refs allowing mugging without calling fouls. Is that cheating? As one that was brought up by a grandfather who was very stern about “how you played the game” I remember all too well paying a price twice because of something I did on the field/court that did not get called. One of those times I had to “cut my own switch”, an experience that is direction altering all on it’s own. It’s those things that formed how I “play” the game of real life, and always have. More than once I have made decisions about how I “play” based on the lessons he taught me. If that sounds self righteous it surely is not, it is me following in the ways I was brought up. I “played” with many, both on the field and in the classroom, and now in the workplace. How I play is a product of my grandfather’s lessons. It’s not a matter of pride for me that I strive to stay between the lines, it is who he taught me to be and I see no other way to play.

    That all being said, I have difficulty dealing with those who have no lines, and lament that they didn’t have someone who taught them that lines are important. The importance is a clear conscience. When you cheat you live in fear of being found out, or you lament when you are caught, which is even worse.

    Smarter than the average bear



    Yogi… please don’t take this wrong way… but there’s a 50/50 chance your grandpa bent a few rules when he was young and didn’t want you to make the same mistakes…

    My grandpa talked to me a lot about “character”…

    Then I found out he had been a real “character” during his college days and later…

    In the end, that’s all good.

    Bigtime cheaters have no conscience and don’t fear getting caught.

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!


    My other grandfather, yep, real possibility, but not the one that raised me. His father committed suicide when the stock market crashed in 29 and at age 20 he had to be a father to his 3 younger brothers during the great depression and he pulled the family through it. Every time I go back to my hometown for one reason or another at least one person says something about how great a man he was. He’s been gone over 40 years and there are still days I wish I could talk to him. I’ve known more than a few men I considered to have great integrity but he is still at the top of the list. No offense taken Bill, if you had known him you’d know what I mean.

    Smarter than the average bear



    Yogi.. none taken… you nailed it… I just missed a generation…
    Your grandpa didn’t want you to be like his father …
    He was ‘protecting’ you from what he had gone thru as a kid…

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!


    Everybody asking me now, “so what are they going to do to North Carolina?”. Like I know. What do you guys say?



    Currently leaning toward ‘nothing.’

    Somebody else mentioned it earlier, but I think the sheeple are trying to ride it out until the NCAA implodes.



    Somebody else mentioned it earlier, but I think the sheeple are trying to ride it out until the NCAA implodes.

    If it’s going to be another 8-year investigation then it’s probably a very viable strategy. A shame. They truly deserve punishment. At least their fraudulent persona got exposed for the massive bucket of BS that it is.



    Yep. I have been saying “Roy is toast” followed by “state fans say probably nothing because they are Carolina”. But I don’t really believe that. There is no way they get away with that kind of cheating no matter who they are. It’s not like they are flying under the radar. The whole country is asking. I can even see ‘Ol Roy taking the fall and riding off into the sunset. Which almost brings a tear to my eye. Will it really be as much fun without him around? If the Hole lovers are ready to run him off, then by all means I want him to stay.



    I can even see ‘Ol Roy taking the fall and riding off into the sunset.

    I think the NCAA waits for Roy to retire, then slaps the Cheaters.

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