12/27/2013 at 9:20 AM #33481StateFansKeymaster
For months, The Carolina faithful — aided by, among others, the vocal Dick Vitale and Jay Bilas — campaigned for the NCAA to #FreePJ. In the end, it
[See the full post at: Asheville Citizen-Times: Tar Heels have lost their way]12/27/2013 at 9:35 AM #33482MikeParticipant
What is the problem here? Just move along and accept it. There is nothing to see here, everyone else is doing it so what is the problem? And in tribute to one of my favorite childhood friend Scooby Doo, “we would have gotten away with it too if not for those meddling (or tweeting) kids.”12/27/2013 at 9:58 AM #33483GeneParticipant
Johnson & Johnson’s response to the Tylenol tampering of the early 1980’s has been a well studied case for how to properly do “damage control”.
I think the UNC-Cheat’s athletic departments handling of the recent spate of scandals should also be studied as a case of well handled “damage control”, because these fuckers get to keep screwing around and get away with it, while the fans and media fall over themselves to pretend their shit doesn’t stink. The evil genius required to pull this off really is impressive, in a perverse way.12/27/2013 at 10:11 AM #33484lawfulParticipant
At least there’s enough intelligence out there to recognize that this is one of the most corrupt programs in the country. Say what you want, but isn’t that the bottom line?12/27/2013 at 11:01 AM #33485
The problem is that this in an op-ed article in the Asheville paper, not in Sports Illustrated or on “Outside the Lines”. The heavy hitters continue to remain blissfully ignorant of the whole thing. The only time it gets mention on ESPN is when one of the talking heads blabbers on about how the big, bad NCAA is the group in the wrong. They are at least partially right, the NCAA is in the wrong, but not because of how they treat “student” athletes, but because of how they have time and time again looked the other way when the big time programs break the rules. They have effectively neutered themselves, and the impending demise is at least partly their own fault. But none of that should detract from the fact that the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill is a festering cesspool of illegalities, hypocrisies, and corruption.12/27/2013 at 11:07 AM #33486WufpackerParticipant
At this point it’s been going on so long that I would liken the current version of the Carolina Way to a form of sociopathy.
It’s all they’ve ever known and they no longer know any better/different.12/27/2013 at 1:15 PM #33487easParticipant
It just amazes me that as a major University they wouldn’t take Academic cheating/fraud more seriously. Regardless of all the other serious issues as a University (not the NCAA, not the press etc) how can this be acceptable? If I graduated from CH I would be pissed. I would want everyone who got credit for those classes to be out of there (they knew it was fake) and/or at least the course taken again prior to credit being received. Plus, why can’t other students cheat? I mean if it isn’t that big of a deal it sure would make college easier…
We aren’t just being bad rivals here with our opinion. If Gottfather or DD did the same thing I would be just as pissed, we all would be pissed. We all know being a student athlete has some perks but the days of fake classes are long gone. How an Alumni, donor or student thinks this is ok is just beyond me. We all want to win and have monster success no matter what. However, my degree makes my money to put back into the program so I kind of think academic fraud is a big deal.
Off the soap box now….nothing to see here. Move along folks this is just daily business next door.12/27/2013 at 1:37 PM #33488BJD95Keymaster
Wuf, I do think there’s some validity to that. Actual delusion is going on, in the minds of at least a substantial plurality of Wal Mart Nation.12/27/2013 at 1:38 PM #33489MrPlywoodParticipant
Pffft, everyone knows that the Asheville Citizen-Times is in bed with the Wuffies. I’ll never read that rag again. Heck, Jarret probably went to State and studied cows or something. They’re all trying to bring Carolina down. Roy’s a stand-up guy who is sticking by his team. If PJ doesn’t get a second or fifth chance his life is ruined. I bet some State guys did far worse, everyone knows it. I have license plates.12/27/2013 at 2:12 PM #33490Pack78Participant
^Clearly Jarrett is just envious of the Flagship because he probably was not accepted to go to school there…12/27/2013 at 2:19 PM #33491fullmoon1Participant
I appreciate that they are being recognized for some of the shenanigans that take place in chapel hole however, the title of the article reflects a view that they once were a shining, pillar of righteousness and the truth is they have always been a dirty bunch of crooks. These scandals are not new and the Carolina way was always corrupt.12/27/2013 at 2:37 PM #33492
This is sort of “yesterday’s news”. If you believe, and I do, the information that has been posted elsewhere and also the comments from a lot of my UNC friends, who have several LTR’s at the DEAN, then the situation played out like this…
UNC suspended both lads. That was a smart move (not unheard of in how the Lawyers and PR folks recommend doing this and also how OTHER schools have done it). OK….that puts UNC in the driver’s seat. They notify the NCAA that there MAY have been inappropriate behavior as well as impermissible benefits. They are THEN the lead investigator….
They do their due diligence. At first, the case looks pretty simple. Dude got cars and was arrested for a few charges, but the evidence (in the opinion of the DCDA) was not sufficient for major charges…so some were dropped. That, legally, clears up some issues.
BUT, the NCAA does NOT deal in the minutiae of merely breaking the law. They have their OWN arcane rules (like catering a steak feed at your home – OK; Buying a player a Mickey D combo meal – IMPERMISSIBLE BENEFIT). So the thrust was to determine the magnitude or the frequency of the benefits. UNC investigated….not the NCAA. Fats’ lawyer said that. What one WOULD have thought at SOMEONE was interested in was how Fats got his BREAD and WHO his partners were (that is public record) and whether there was some really UGLY and BIG BREAD coming from them and/or folks representing (without being registered in NC) SPORTS AGENTS.
Now, one DOES wonder if UNC really found a BUNCH of mess. I first THOUGHT that they did. However, my old work years kicked in….and I think this is the case….
Let me give you an example. When I sold a commercial or industrial property for my company, it was actually handled by the Corporate Real Estate guy. I was the local contact and did the clean up and fix up. I also had all the environmental records as well as the building maintenance records…which include some professional surveys on the roofs and other infrastructure.
We had a position, which was also the Generally Accepted Practice that most companies followed of FULL DISCLOSURE. That meant that ANY document that I had about the building, the property, the past manufacturing/storage, the environmental issues, and any remediation…..were placed in a “OPEN, SECURED” file. Most of the time, a potential purchaser would send in his own team, including outside consultants, and survey the property. They would ask questions and fill out their forms. We ONLY gave them answers to what they asked and we gave them a full tour, but again, only minimal info….if they had questions, we would answer. THEN, they went back and put together a “Purchase Report”. That report was a summary of all they had been told. It also had “What we NOW want to know” items. SO, they would submit a list of issues….and we would dig out the answers from the Open, Secured file. IF they wanted to send in another team or a consultant to go through that file (probably 10 four drawer cabinets), then we would comply…as we had an open disclosure position. They rarely did….
My take, based on several conversations with the corporate lawyers and the environmental corporate lawyers and the real estate corporate lawyers (YES….we had MORE lawyers in the Ivory Tower than you can imagine)….is that….you present the basics….you do NOT put every gory or perhaps “RED FLAG” item in the “prospectus”. THEN, they it is THEIR responsibility to ASK and it is then OUR responsibility to answer based on the recorded (documented) information.
I think that UNC dug very little….but what they dug up was DAMNING. Once they had enough “initial” ugliness to realize that PJ was never, ever going to wear a light blue varsity uniform and participate in NCAA competition….they then STOPPED digging. Old ROY was optimistic….perhaps he thought that the PREVIOUS AD and the PREVIOUS Chancellor and the PREVIOUS Compliance Staff would “bury” some things….and then the UNC investigation would focus on a GOOD kid that made a LITTLE mistake and was SORRY.
BUT, it did not happen. The AD and all the top officials at UNC said UH-OHHH!. This is ugly. STOP digging. We already have to divulge, IF NECESSARY, what we have now. If we keep digging…and find more….then the NCAA MIGHT review it and MIGHT have some questions about LOIC!. SO, PJ was declared Persona Non Grata (PNG) and at that point, they focused on salvaging Leslie McDonald.
It is my distinct feeling that EVERY high ranking official in the chain from PJ to the Chancellor and the various other little branches involved, save old Huck, want PJ OUT OF THERE….it is time for him to do a “Sound of Music” good bye song and walk into the darkness (out of the spotlight) at the next UNC Home Game…and like Captain Von Trapp, he will NOT report for duty to sit with Old Roy on the bench…
Twill be interesting to see if he still there tonight….
The informal surveys that I have heard about or conducted say that a majority of UNC fans and alums and donors think he needs to follow Al Gore’s lead and say…”It is TIME for ME to GO….!”
This melodrama will play for years….and eventually Roy will decide that his “Butch” attitude is NOT in his best interest. MOST AD’s lose when they try to replace coaches with “NCAA Rings” (ORW hath 2), but this is NOT your typical situation and the fans and the reputation of the university are at odds with the coach’s little song and dance….
Bubba does not have all the trump cards that Roy has…but he has a few high ones and seems to understand the game well….12/27/2013 at 2:46 PM #33493
Roo, I appreciate your contributions, but reading your posts always makes my head hurt.12/27/2013 at 4:35 PM #33494wufpup76Keymaster
Thanks, Ashville paper. SSDD in the Hole (pun intended?)12/27/2013 at 4:40 PM #33495bill.onthebeachParticipant
‘Roo… I can’t tell you what they really did behind the curtain over at the Hole… but I can tell you that if the results were the intended outcome then they would have done exactly as you describe….
Except for one small detail….
Why would Uncle Roy… want PJ back on his team…
It certainly would not mean that his job this season would have been easier…
It certainly was not to keep PJ quiet about certain things…
It certainly was not to keep the Big Money happy…
It certainly was not to have a better team….
( his young team is coming together very nicely without PJ and it’s very doubtful that they would have developed as quickly with PJ playing…. nor would their W-L record been any better. )
The only answer I can come up with this…
Like him or not… Uncle Roy is a coach… and coaches, successful ones anyway, never “quit” on their players… even when they should.
That said, it will be interesting to see what the good Professor D’rang’bo and Joe Cheshire have to say, if or when, they get their day in court…#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!12/27/2013 at 5:01 PM #33496rthomas44Participant
If we are NCSU fans and alum , then let us just end this worthless talk about them with “GO TO HELL CAROLINA’12/27/2013 at 5:39 PM #33497packpowerfanParticipant
“And most of what you see, my dear is purely for show; because not everything that goes around, comes back around you know.”
I offer this line from “…Like Clockwork” by Queens of the Stone Age for my thoughts on it all. Seeing them in Raleigh on Jan 30th, and it felt oh so appropriate.12/27/2013 at 5:56 PM #33498JaxPackManParticipant
As State Alums/Fans we can’t help but look over yonder at Orange County Trade School and chuckle at least a little about all the troubles they are having in the Athletics Dept. Most of us have likely wondered how they could continue to be so good for so long without cheating and now we know what the definition of “The Carolina Way” really is.
We can’t help but compare how the NCAA has dispensed punishment to the pastel blue and how the Wolfpack was dealt with. Admittedly, without knowing all the details judgements are difficult to make. But if nothing else the press basically crucified State and never seems to let the world forget. Given what has been found to date, the penalties seem light comparatively speaking to other school’s situations. Although the head of the school and athletic department paid the price and perhaps a few other lower level administrators are gone, the press seems to be letting UNC off kind of light.
Sadly, unless someone keeps stirring the scandal pot, this whole thing will be forgotten in a few years.
NCSU class of '76
Jacksonville, FL12/27/2013 at 6:12 PM #33499bill.onthebeachParticipant
Speaking of those who have lost their way….
“Adios Twerps !” Now that you have lost your last official ACC football game to the mighty thundering herd from Marshall…. we want to wish you the very best in your new home… the Big Ten…. where we are pretty sure you will never be heard from again ….#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!12/27/2013 at 7:04 PM #33500LRMKeymaster
It’s important to note that in 1990 we self-imposed overly harsh penalties for only minor infractions. The NCAA simply accepted our self-imposed penalties, but did not add any of its own.
Our own administration was our biggest enemy.
Compare that to the Flagship since 2010.12/28/2013 at 11:55 AM #33501
There used to be a comment to be “nice” when posting on the old site….
God (and maybe he does not know….or care) only knows what lurks in the head of ORW.
Many of my UNC fans are less than positive on him an shudder when the TV show him with a microphone. BUT, they note that they have a dilemma….there is no “RW in waiting”. SO, they don’t know WHAT would happen. Many actually think that having Bubba in place is a blessing as some of the inbreeding of the UNC system is not good….so maybe Bubba would hire someone that did not wear the blue and white for UNC.
I don’t know how many of you saw the N&O Opinion or Editorial in the Print Edition this morning…..
When you read it…..look at the 3 questions at the end. Maybe they should have restated them as statements and said….
There is OBVIOUSLY a Lack of Institutional Control that the NCAA needs to look at based on the following….
Why are these questions and not points?
I get the MOST distinct feeling that Mrs. Folt, the new chancellor is concentrating on redecorating her office suite and her box at Kenan, rather than bothering herself with the minutiae of the non-compliance of the AD.
I also think that UNC’s fan based is eroding…..and have proof of that. Last Christmas Eve, we went to Moore Square to hand out food, toiletries, and clothing. It was a project of our church. I noticed a LOT of the folks accepting them were wearing UNC colors….I asked a couple of them and they said that they were not UNC fans, but there was more UNC stuff donated to the various charities and that had increased in the past couple of years….
One laughed and said……”I guess those Tarheels aren’t as proud as they once were and don’t want to wear the stuff….but we take what we are given”….obviously a very intelligent person who has fallen on hard times but keeps with current events.
Happy New Year….12/28/2013 at 1:46 PM #33502
Roo, I wasn’t being “not” nice. You use a lot of “…” and CAPITALIZATIONS in your posts. I read “…” as a pause, and I read capitalized words with emphasis, thus making your posts hard to read. Again, I appreciate your contributions, just letting you know that to me, your posts are difficult to read and follow.12/28/2013 at 2:28 PM #33503
Sorry it drives your to take aspirin. Old habits are hard to break and I used to write executive summaries for major capital appropriation projects and the big (spelled high roller$) boys in the ivory tower wanted key words emphasized so they could speed read.
The …..is also a habit….
Will work on it.12/30/2013 at 12:13 PM #33504blpackParticipant
It only took the Asheville paper 4 years to see the forest for the trees. I hope UNC-cheat gets what is coming to them. Probation. And yes, there is no boy Roy waiting in the wings.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.