State Loses at Louisville, 30-18

State certainly played well enough today to have a chance at the end, but poor execution and even poorer coaching in the red zone ended with State falling to 4-4 (0-4).

Two fourth quarter series where the poor execution and even poorer coaching stand out:

First, down 20-9, State had 2nd and 1 at the Louisville two yard line, and then after a Louisville penalty gave State 1st and goal from the one, State had to settle for a 25 yard field goal after a sack and two incomplete passes.

Then, after having already burned its first timeout before a punt after opening the second half with a three-and-out, with under six minutes to play, down 20-12 and Louisville facing 3rd and 17 in field goal range at the State 28, Doeren called back-to-back timeouts before the third down play. State forced Louisville to kick and the 45-yard field goal made it 23-12.

After that, State marched right down field and scored, but the inexplicable misuse of timeouts meant that with 2:21 and no timeouts, State had no choice but to try an onside kick, which failed. On 3rd and 12, Louisville scored on a 46-yard TD run and the game was over.

Somewhere Les Miles was shaking his head at that timeout management.

Dave Doeren is now 0-12 in league play and State has a much-needed bye week before it’s November 1 trip to Syracuse.

I think we all need the break.

Box Score (ESPN)

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Home Forums State Loses at Louisville, 30-18

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    For the love of Pete, no one is saying fire him. But I’d you think 0-12 does not deserve since criticism then you do not understand sports.
    Again, he was dealt a bad have and has played it poorly.


    For the love of Pete, no one is saying fire him. But I’d you think 0-12 does not deserve since criticism then you do not understand sports.
    Again, he was dealt a bad have and has played it poorly.


    The schedule has been positively brutal. In 4 consecutive weeks, State has faced the #5 defense in Clemson, the #11 in BC, and the #1 in L’ville.

    Oh. Then there was that little team from Florida.


    I understand sports. Played on a state championship team. Understand all too well what it’s like to be 0-12 too with watching my nephew and what he went through having to go to a new school instead of one that consistently won conference championships and a couple of state championships. You think you got it tough sitting on the sidelines watching them lose? Try putting on that uniform or walk the sidelines when NO ONE expects you to win. It is brutal. Practices and film study where you watch yourself lose when the reason you play is to win. Hell yes, cut them some slack. Unless you’ve been there OR better still, ARE there then back off. The expectations for this team was at best 6 – 6. Last I checked we do have a chance to get there.

    Thank you CD for some shedding some light on what they have gone through. Yep, brutal is a very good definition.

    Smarter than the average bear


    Yogi buddy, Gott has done quite well relative to his peers. Well above average and 3 for 3 on the Tourney, which is always the goal. We aren’t the doormat that is now Wolfpack football (until proven otherwise). I’m not sure why some seem to think the same rules don’t apply to Doeren as applied to every other coach in the country. He, like Lowe, is being paid good money. And so far he hasn’t done a single thing in conference a year and a half in. He absolutely does have to win sometime soon (and again, I suspect he will). But we are getting closer to that tipping point. We really need the win at Cuse. We will be favored against Wake and that is a must win. GT and UNC are losses the way I see it now. So two wins going forward and a bowl game to boot is indeed progress. And it is attainable. But the flip side is much uglier. And that is just the way it is.


    1-3 out of the last four was the best we could reasonably ask for. Get through the bye and go beat Syracuse.

    As for the coaching yesterday, the timeouts use sucked. Huxtable showed signs of competence. The guys were in the right spots on defense multiple time and simply missed tackles so whoever the tackling coach is needs to try something different because you aren’t getting through.

    The first scoring opportunity of the game and the gaol line chance in the fourth qtr that turned into a FG sealed our fate. I did not mind the roll out on first and goal, Jacoby didn’t execute that one. I would not have been upset with four straight QB sneaks either.


    I’m not sure why some seem to think the same rules don’t apply to Doeren as applied to every other coach in the country.

    Because his mountain to climb is tons higher than most coaches. Did you really expect to win any of the last 4 games? Most who were discussing our schedule at the beginning never even considered us to be 4 – 4 at this point. IMO we have exceeded expectations.

    Smarter than the average bear


    Gott had a lot more to work with, 4 top notch players and at the time one of the best recruiting classes in the league. There are those who could say he has underachieved in light of the talent he has had.

    Smarter than the average bear


    ^No one is arguing against that — at least I’m not.

    This is a forum where we discuss our opinions. I’ve never once suggested Doeren should be fired. On the contrary, even though I wasn’t a fan of the hire, I’ve argued that we have to give him a chance to build it his way, simply because of the dire situation he was hired into.

    We showed a lot of improvement yesterday, played very well compared to recent weeks. But, mistakes were made, and we’re just not a team (yet) that can overcome mistakes. Ultimately, we were outdone after some mistakes in both coaching and execution. And that’s why it was so frustrating to watch, because we did play so well against a very good team, and we were so close to a breakthrough.


    Because his mountain to climb is tons higher than most coaches.

    Absolutely agree. Which is why we suspect that leash is long. But, he still is tasked with climbing that mountain. And I suspect he will, it has just been a rough start.

    I thought we could beat BC, but that was a big letdown. I also thought we showed very well against FSU. So in my mind the last four are a bit of a wash, I agree most thought we’d lose all of them coming in.

    The next four (or really 2 of the 4) loom large.


    Doeren’s Mtn is high to climb so it has and will be difficult. He is getting paid very well to climb it so critics can say they want. Like was said before in this post, he was dealt a bad hand to start with but has played it pretty bad thus far.

    I think almost everyone on here likes Doeren (including myself) and wants him to succeed. However, he can’t continue to be winless in the ACC. Cut it how you want, say what you want and make every excuse possible….bottom line it will not fly for long.

    The Gott analogy is not relative to this topic. In his short time here he has done very well overall. He gets bitched about plenty to (bad defense).

    Everyone has a right to bitch and moan so I have no issue with it. Doeren doesn’t work here for FREE! Therefore, he still has to improve no matter what. Yes, his Mtn is high but he chose that Mtn with a fat check in hand. Just improve and win some ACC games. Until I see some significant improvement I will gladly give my 2 cents. I really like Doeren but he deserves criticism when it’s needed (an I really like the guy). He still needs it…


    NC State hasn’t won an ACC title since 1979 and has had only six winning league seasons since 1990 (that’s 24 years for the folks in Faison). Yeah, we have lots to compare him to. Lots of winners there. Chuck’s best season and he was 5 – 3 in the league. TOB never came close even with 2 NFL starting QBs. And we have maybe a couple of guys in the senior classes that may play on Sunday. Even at this point in time I’d take Doeren over both of them. Over Chuck cause nobody wanted to work or play for him, and TOB because he didn’t work hard enough (Recruiting IS one of your 3 main responsibilities). Say what you want but to me DD is an upgrade.

    Smarter than the average bear


    We (basketball) aren’t the doormat that is now Wolfpack football

    That’s a fair comparison? Our basketball team has won 2 national championships, our football team has hardly seen the top 25. Our basketball team plays in a league of national champions, our football team plays in a league of mostly also-rans. Our basketball coach inherited a team of fairly good, if not very good, players. Our football coach inherited a team of average players at best.

    I think we are exceeding expectations. Who would have thought we would have given the Noles the game we gave them or L’ville? Anybody that knew anything about BC lost his mind thinking we were equal in talent. They are ranked #11 on defense. They did beat USC.

    However, he can’t continue to be winless in the ACC. Cut it how you want, say what you want and make every excuse possible….bottom line it will not fly for long.

    Is anyone saying it will last for long? Is being one of the Power-5 teams with the least talent is an excuse? Perhaps the Pack coulda, shoulda, woulda beat Wake. That’s one out of 8. If we had beaten Wake, would that have made one modicum of difference as far as our team development is concerned?

    What I don’t understand is the continuous harping on the conference W/L record. Oh I get acknowledging it. I get being disappointed but I don’t get the significance of it. Do we forfeit scholarships? Do we get fined?

    Even high school boys are smarter than most of us who are making the same comments week after week about it. Ole Loser Doeren has signed the #1 rated defensive player in the state his 2 years here. More top ranked players are seriously considering NC State than ever before. From what I heard yesterday we signed some outstanding freshmen last year. So I say those high school players see something we can’t or don’t want to see.

    The 0’fer will end, probably sooner than later. In the meantime as Richard Pryor told Bill Cosby, “Have a Coke and a smile and shut the f*ck up.” (when Cos’ was complaining about raw language.) The same complaints about the same sh*t, gets old.


    Question for the ‘Stat’ guys….

    How many freshman(true & RS) and sophomores played for us yesterday?

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!

    I didn’t make the comparison. I was responding to a statement another poster made. There is no comparison right now between the programs.


    I don’t get the significance of it.

    It has historical significance. Never before have we been THIS bad. Is that all on Doeren? No. Will it continue? Who knows.

    The same complaints about the same sh*t, gets old.

    So does losing n


    Our basketball coach inherited a team of fairly good, if not very good, players. Our football coach inherited a team of average players at best.

    He did. He also quickly elevated the status of the program – a program that was in the bottom third of the conference year after year thanks to Lowe’s ineptitude. But it is a lot easier to do in basketball. But he did it. Will Doeren? Who knows. But right now he’s not.


    There’s plenty to admire about Doeren. Personally, I think he’s sharp and admire that he’s committed to playing the style of offense that he and Canada want to play. He began last year even when we didn’t have the horses. To me, that speaks to commitment and philosophy. I also recognize that this staff is committed to recruiting, and they’re doing a far better job in NC than any staff since Sheridan. How far there reach is out-of-state, I don’t know, but they definitely had a huge hill to climb in state and they’ve made big strides.

    Defensively, it’s clear the talent is behind the offensive side of the ball. Speed is lacking, there’s no doubt. Notwithstanding a few positions, it was lacking with the previous regime as well. I don’t know the defensive philosophy of this staff. If it’s apparent on the field, I don’t like it.

    Gameday coaching I’d give a C so far. Preparation and coaching at the amateur level is all about maximizing talent, minimizing mistakes, and exploiting weaknesses. I’m just not convinced our staff does all of those very well. On the offensive side of the ball, there’s a little too much tecmo bowl crap going on for my taste. Wisconsin fans complained of the same. Canada has a history of going away from what works, at times, in favor of mixing it up even when the defense isn’t forcing adjustments.


    Pretty damned good effort by one of the youngest teams in the country with multiple starters suspended against the best/leading defensive team in the country. I expected a shut out. I absolutely did not expect a close game with a chance to win. As for the season as a whole, I see reasonable growth considering our humble beginning from ground zero is only two recruiting periods deep. I had no expectations for a winning season this year and I’m not surprised to see us with another oh-fer in the ACC hanging around our necks. And it is an absolute fact that our division is BY FAR, more difficult than the Coastal. Will we win another game this season? For the sake of the players, I hope we do. In that regard, I hope they pick up two wins and get to go bowling. They deserve it and the extra practice would be beneficial for next year. BUT…speaking of next year, I do have expectations that include a minimum of 8 wins, our inclusion in the mix for the Atlantic and a nice bowl bid. We will still be a fairly young team but DD’s recruiting success should begin to translate to success on the field next year. I expect that. I didn’t and don’t expect anything but effort this year.


    I really like Doeren but he deserves criticism when it’s needed (an I really like the guy). He still needs it

    Perhaps you could explain to an old country boy like me, why does Doeren need criticism over and over, week after week? I’d grant that we could have beaten Wake last year. The rest of those horrible, despicable, detestable, retched loses were games that knowledgeable people expected the Pack to lose. (Maybe not by those who judge a team’s strength by name recognition, i.e., “No way we should lose to BC, MD, Duke, UNC,” etc.)

    Were we expecting Doeren to come in and wave a magic wand? As I understand it, he is known to be an excellent recruiter. I don’t think Debbie was expecting a miracle worker.

    O for 8 conference loses last year. O for 4 that nobody in his right mind expected anything more this year. We are entering the part of the schedule where we can reasonably expect a win or 2 or 3 and maybe 4. We are coming into the time where we can judge accurately who well DD is going to do. If he loses the games he is favored in, jump on his ass. Until then STFU.


    Before you want to place DD on the top of the list of those former two coaches you might want to see how it plays out first. My favorite coach we ever had was Dick Sheridan and he came in here while he was left with nothing from Tom Reed. In his 7 years here he had only 1 losing ACC record. I grant you he did not win an ACC championship but, if it was not for his health he was going to I truly believe. Going 52-29-3 overall and 31-9 in acc was not bad at all.

    I am pulling for DD to succeed of course as it means I succeed as a wolfpack fan. Just remember one thing about evaluating coaches and that is they can only do so much to prepare a player to perform; the rest is up to the player on game day. Game management, play calling, and putting the players in a position to win: Well! those responsibilities on game day will always be on the coaching staff.

    There have been defining moments over 47 years of being a pack fan that I will remember–good and bad– and yesterdays play selection with 1st and goal at the half yard line will be one I soon hope to forget. Amen!


    It has historical significance.

    Did you mean to type hysterical? If not could you explain the historical significance? The reason I ask is I don’t hear a lot about Duke’s “historical” significance of their past in either football or basketball — or any other team that rises out of the ashes. So what is this mysterious “historical” significance? Other than give “hysterical” fans something to bellyache about?

    If we were regularly losing games we were favored to win, I and others who aren’t now concerned would be, but not because of some mysterious “historical” or any other kind of “significance.”


    Going off topic, at least the Panthers look good today.


    Bye week. Pull a TOB and spend a lot of time on tackling technique and then go on a 5 game win streak. IIRC, a multi win scenario happened more than once under coach sniffles.


    and yesterdays play selection with 1st and goal at the half yard line will be one I soon hope to forget.

    In an earlier series when Lvile was 1st and goal on the 1 and a half yard line, we – one of the worst defenses in the country according to the stats wizards – stopped them for a yard loss. Earlier in the year GSU I believe fumbled on the one yard line which we recovered and subsequently won by one point.

    We have an O line that was getting their asses handed to them all game by the #1 defense in the country and our OC didn’t think running would have the same chance for success as a short pass. Running also risked a lose of yardage. Running also risked a fumble. Unfortunately our QB once again tried to make something out of nothing and was sacked. Every Pack fan knows that Doeren has said he doesn’t need our QB to win the game, just don’t lose it. Had he hit a receiver for a TD or thrown it away, would this have been a play that you — and others — would like to forget? I didn’t think so.

    This is the same OC that was doing things to Lville offensively that few other teams had done. Do the expected against good teams and you will get shut down. You must try the unexpected sometimes if you expect to succeed.

    So, take a deep breath, say another “Amen” and forget about it. The call wasn’t a bad call at all. It was poorly executed and violated the coaching points he has been repeatedly given. If we had any other option at QB, Jacoby would be sitting watching. (Ever wonder why he wasn’t starting at Florida and felt the need to transfer?)

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