Time: 2:00
TV: RSN (Fox Sports South)
Announcers: Tom Werne, Dan Bonner

Sorry guys for the lack of a preview but major computer problems is the culprit. Add in the downer that is the Syracuse and Clemson games then the effort level has reflected the Pack’s performance in Clemson.

If the Pack wins then there’s nothing to be excited about and deserve a slow clap:

If the Pack loses then…

KenPom thinks we win by 2. I’m done guessing.

About 1.21 Jigawatts

Class of '98, Mechanical Engineer, State fan since arriving on campus and it's been a painful ride ever since. I live by the Law of NC State Fandom, "For every Elation there is an equal and opposite Frustration."

13-14 Basketball

Home Forums NC STATE at VIRGINIA TECH Game Thread

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    1.21 Jigawatts


    You’ve missed the point completely. I’ve never said he hasn’t improved. What I’ve said from the beginning, remember the beginning was about next year and needing a vast improvement of freshman to sophomore the likes of which we’ve never seen and it was stated that TJ and Lewis had vast improvement. My rebuttal was they haven’t had a vast improvement and showed Warren’s tempo free stats from last year to this year as evidence. If you’re not familiar with Tempo Free Stats on an individual level then here’s a quick breakdown of them. Every player is judged on efficiency related to possessions and as such historically every player has a curve, this curve is efficiency vs possessions, and at some point the more possessions they have the less efficient they become. Last year Warren was highly efficient with fewer possessions, this year his efficiency has decreased due to a large increase in possessions. At some point between the possession rates of last year and this year his efficiency peaked and started to decline, as all players do. To further my point I suggested that maybe Gottfried screwed up in his evaluation of Warren’s talent level within the team vs Leslie’s and as such didn’t utilize Warren correctly last year, i.e. Gottfried backed the wrong horse. My point is and always has been that even though we may think we are seeing a vastly improved Warren (“eye test”, “common sense”, “Forest/trees”, “fruit salad”) that per his TFS (actual measurable facts) he already was good and now has been able to show it because he is thee focal point of the offense. Sure losing the weight likely improved his stamina on the court to allow longer minutes per game without sacrificing production but his yearly stats say he was already a great player and wasn’t utilized enough last year.


    I’m with Jiggs … or I’m with ‘Foose…. I don’t know….
    Maybe ya’ll are saying the same things…. who knows….

    There is a substantive difference between “better defined as improvement in ability” and “better simply defined as more of”…

    Yep… there’s no question his output is up in the absence of more dominant players…
    but what exactly is CUZ doing “better as improvement” this year than last year…

    dribbling ?
    passing ?
    shooting ?
    free throws ?
    rebounds ?
    defense ?
    team leadership ?

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!

    Reminds me of an argument I got into with a science major friend of mine my freshman year of college.

    I was arguing confidence was a huge factor when it came to making a shot, he said “nope, its the trajectory/ rotation.”

    He had a point, these things make a huge difference, but confidence in sports is, IMHO, the factor that seperates the great athlete from the good one and the good one from the mediocre one.


    Bill – I think its easier to argue improvement on tj’s end. Does anyone see him putting up these numbers last year? Heck, the stats show he has increased his scoring 100%. Is he technically as efficient? Nope.

    But those stats don’t measure the defensive attention he’s receiving.


    ^They all, including CUZ, have “improved”….

    Come on… it’s virtually impossible to do anything 6 hours a day – 6 days a week – for 6 months and not get better at some aspects of it…. this is especially true in the case of basketball.

    …even ANTHONY… who GOTT 4 minutes on the court against the Hokies… has improved…. In his case… his understanding of the importance of playing within a team first structure has been ‘improving’ all season which bodes well for his future.

    The intangibles which cannot be measured are just as important as the tangibles which can be measured both at the individual level and at the team level.

    For example… my most important “litmus test” for any member of any member is this…
    “When that team member does whatever they do… do they make everybody around them better?”

    The “observed” answer is, generally speaking, pretty clear cut — either yes or no… but it cannot be quantified. It’s just yes or no.

    Now in CUZ’s case… it’s pretty clear by now CUZ is going to get his Twenty points and his 8 rebounds every night … doesn’t matter who the opposition is or what D they’re running… except when playing in the Dean Dome.

    And on average over a season and a half, roughly speaking, a third of those are coming from set plays, a third of those are coming on rebounds and pickups, and a third of those are coming on fast breaks… same last season as this…. And two thirds of CUZ’s production is coming when the outcome of the game is not in question. Efficiency varies statistically only with respect to mix here on any given night.

    So if you’re coaching and you want to challenge CUZ to “improve”….
    the next “level” for CUZ may only boil down to two things or three things:
    1. Help / Lead your teammates to play better …
    2. To produce when the game is on the line…
    3. Cut out the 6 – 8 minute (second half) dead spots when he’s invisible on the court.

    The good news is that the last two or three games it’s seems that’s exactly what he’s trying to do.

    We know the kids are going to be two steps forward and one step backwards as they grow… they’re kids…
    That said… measuring all this -quantitatively- may be somewhat similar to measuring climate change…

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!

    He isn’t a Freshman anymore,for that matter, in late Feb, he isn’t a Soph anymore.

    He has matriculated to the point of improving just because he plays beyond the scope of some teammies that he’d probably like to bring along with him.

    Hey. Sometimes they do…sometimes they don’t.


    Improvement only matters when your team is improving faster than the opponents.

    They keep score for a reason.

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