Bubblicious Bracketology (2/13/12)

Well it’s the middle of February and we’re still talking about NC State getting into the NCAAT (without having to win the ACCT). It’s nice to still be looking at it even if State is squarely on the bubble right now, though they have plenty of chances to earn their spot in the Big Dance.

Let’s take a look at where NC State currently is and compare them not only to UVA & Miami but to the entire country and how they stack up against other teams on the Bubble and what they likely have to do to not be sweating on Selection Sunday. We’ll update this each week and more as we get closer.

Here are the big 3 Bracketology discussions:

ESPN’s Joe Lunardi has NC State in one of the play-in games as a 13 seed as of Monday 2/13.

CBS Sports’ Jerry Palm has NC State in one of the play-in games as a 12 seed as of Friday 2/10.

NCAA Tournament “Dance Card” has NC State in a much better position for an At-Large Bid. Ranking them at #39, a full 12 spots before the bubble bursting, with a 60.78% of receiving a bid.

Per our discussion below I’m going to use CBSSports.com RPI and SOS numbers.

Here are a couple of assumptions I’m going to use. Looking back over the last several years no major conference team with a RPI 1-30 has been left out and no major conference team with a RPI above 69 has made it.

So we’ll go ahead and say everyone with and RPI 1-30 is a lock, though I have reservations about a couple of them…especially Colorado State.

2012-NCAAT-RPI-1-30-2-13

Now we’ll look at the remaining teams up to RPI 69 and highlight the teams outside of the RPI top 30 who are “expected” to get their conferences automatic bid.

(Blue = conference automatic bid, Yellow = at large bid, Red = outside the bubble)

2012-NCAAT-RPI-31-69+-2-13

If you take the top 30 + the 20 conference automatic bids that are outside the top 30 = 18 at large bubble bids up for grabs.

If you look at ONLY THE RPI as to qualification you see NC State is third to last In and deserves the play in game and seed both ESPN and CBS are predicting. Which means they have no margin for error. If any of the “20 automatic” conferences have a team not expected to make the NCAAT get their invitation then it only hurts NC State. Though I have a hard time seeing any of the 4 automatic teams above State getting in ahead of State if said team(s) don’t get their automatic bid.

If you also look closer you’ll see that there is one glaring point that separates NC State from those above them…lack of RPI Top 25 wins. They have 3 chances over the next week to get at least one and really their only guaranteed chances since meeting any of them in the ACCT is anything from a given.

NC State’s RPI will increase just by playing the teams remaining on it’s schedule but can almost punch their ticket to the Big Dance simply by upsetting either Duke, FSU, or UNC.

So now you have a better idea who you not only need to be cheering for but also against…nationwide.

About 1.21 Jigawatts

Class of '98, Mechanical Engineer, State fan since arriving on campus and it's been a painful ride ever since. I live by the Law of NC State Fandom, "For every Elation there is an equal and opposite Frustration."

11-12 Basketball College Basketball

26 Responses to Bubblicious Bracketology (2/13/12)

  1. Howler 02/13/2012 at 9:11 PM #

    I had hoped the Texas win was something notable. I see they are right there beside us.

  2. JeremyH 02/13/2012 at 9:44 PM #

    Ah.. how interesting; thank you for this very clear illustration. (you must be great in the board room : ) I see that Virginia and Miami both have their one RPI-top-25 win, and we are still waiting for ours. Although I have confidence in our guys at Duke and against UNC, I suspect FSU at home is our best shot–can someone dim the lights for Scott Wood? I think a win against FSU would make up for that close loss again UVA.

  3. MattN 02/13/2012 at 9:55 PM #

    I would not like the NCAA version of the Les Robinson Invitational.

    We HAVE to win one of the next three, and finish the season winning out. Otherwise, we have work to do in the ACCT and need help from other teams in other coferences. We need Texas to make some noise.

  4. JSRy2k 02/14/2012 at 12:30 AM #

    The last three will not be gimme’s, although our toughness on the road is leaps and bounds better this year. If we make the NCAAT, it will be a feat well worth applauding.

  5. PackerInRussia 02/14/2012 at 4:47 AM #

    It’s interesting to compare our team with our would-be coaches from yestercoachingsearch.

    Also, it’s nice to be talking about a possible NCAAT appearance this late in the season. The play-in game isn’t ideal, but I don’t think it will have any bearing on whether the team makes a deep run or not. But you never know.

  6. Wulfpack 02/14/2012 at 6:07 AM #

    Going 0-6 against the top 25 would be a black eye that I doubt we’d be able to overcome. So yea, we have a VERY important week and a half of basketball upcoming.

  7. BJD95 02/14/2012 at 7:17 AM #

    The play-in game wouldn’t bother me at all. Much better than being a “burst bubble” feature on selection Sunday. After all, VCU showed last year that it’s not necessarily a handicap.

    I also agree that it’s a fair slotting for our team, based on the body of work to date. Good thing we will beat Duke this week, eh? 🙂

    One would have to feel good for Northwestern if they finally get in. Even if they run a modified “chuck and duck” offense. Plus, Cal possibly being the only Pac-12 entrant (and Herbie still with a terrible league record against such “stalwart” opposition, LMAO).

  8. tuckerdorm1983 02/14/2012 at 7:21 AM #

    if we lose the next three and then win the next three that puts us at 10-6. That makes us probably 5th in the acc regular season. If we win just one game in the ACCT, then making the NCAAT is probably 50-50 and we have to play the play in game.
    If we lose the next three and lose one of the following three and only win one game in the ACCT, then we are not in. It would be ok with me if we went to the NIT and went all the way.

  9. baxter 02/14/2012 at 10:01 AM #

    Am I the only person who thinks Miami is very overrated and really has just one good victory over Duke?

  10. Prowling Woofie 02/14/2012 at 10:18 AM #

    Miami is a different team than the one we beat in Coral Gables. Big Reggie is getting into ‘game shape’, and Larkin is a gamer. We’ll have to scrap to sweep them, I’m afraid.

    However, once we do, I think that will give us some cushion with the selection committee, as their RPI is so much higher than ours (?). I guess they play a tougher conference slate than we do this season…

  11. wolfie91 02/14/2012 at 10:26 AM #

    I would be very happy making the tourney this year, no matter what the seed. We have a chance to win ourselves into it. Not sure you can ask for more in Gottfried’s first season.

  12. nav 02/14/2012 at 10:36 AM #

    “It would be ok with me if we went to the NIT and went all the way.”

    Not me. The NIT is an embarrassment if you ask me. No glory even in winning it. I may be in the minority but it would suit me if we could just turn it down and stay home…if it comes to that.

  13. 61Packer 02/14/2012 at 11:38 AM #

    Please, no more NIT. Enough for this Pack fan.

    Under Herb and Sidney, we degenerated from an NIT contender who played most of its NIT games at home (which explains why Herb’s teams won a lot of NIT games) to an NIT bubble team that was doomed to road games to one that couldn’t even make the darned thing.

    The only thing we should be concerned about right now is how well we perform in Durham this week. It isn’t about winning or losing to me, but rather how much mettle this team shows, especially in the areas of handling the ball, rebounding, and consistent defense. I like our chances of making progress if the players will listen to the coaching staff and remember what they said when on the floor.

    I’m not advocating “good loss” mentality. I’m just saying that it is crucial that this team, given the fragile attitudes of at least two key players, continues to show improvement as they move toward March. Poor performances in the next 3 contests could set the table for a March freefall heading into Atlanta, and the only bubble we’d matter to then would be the NIT’s bubble.

    And as far as the brackets are concerned, there is way too much ahead to make any clear-cut predictions on who’s going or how high they’ll be seeded. This season is far from over. The ACC has 4 who are in for sure, although I still believe FSU is the weakest of them due to coaching, and of the remaining hopefuls for a 5th or 6th ACC NCAA team, the Wolfpack is the best bet. They’ll remain that way IF they play well down the stretch, which begins Thursday night.

  14. MP 02/14/2012 at 1:34 PM #

    “NCAA Tournament “Dance Card” has NC State in a much better position for an At-Large Bid. Ranking them at #39, a full 12 spots before the bubble bursting, with a 60.78% of receiving a bid.”

    Let me know if they up it to 61.362% and I’ll call my bookie.

    Excellent post! The cool thing is the RPI/Bracketology hype is starting to develop a ‘feel’ to it as we reach mid-February. Always an exciting time – Well, exciting when your team is relevant.

    We are relevant as of Tuesday 2/14. And 61P nailed how to remain relevant.

  15. Wulfpack 02/14/2012 at 3:17 PM #

    I think Miami is actually a pretty good team and they are very well coached. I think what you saw early in the year was a Miami team adjusting to a new system/expectations with the coaching change, as well as Johnson’s absense. Most talking heads seem to look at Miami as pre-Johnson’s return and then post-Johnson’s return, and they are clearly playing better as of late. I think the ACC overall should be happy with this as Miami’s rise has helped the conference’s perception nationally. Everyone thought UNC, Duke, FSU and UVA would be good but now you add NCSU and Miami and the conference isn’t quite as bad as previously thought.

    I am not usually one to care for the NIT, but IF it came to that for us, I would be in favor as the guys are still adjusting to a new coaching staff and new roles. I think a deep run in the NIT could go a long way for this team. Of course, I’d much rather have a one-and-done (even if it is just the play-in game) in the NCAA’s as that is the measuring stick. I think Gott is going to have an NCAA-worthy team for years to come and there would be nothing better than to kick it off in year one.

  16. JeremyH 02/14/2012 at 4:19 PM #

    Every year is ripe with various challenges. Next year we get an influx of talent, but if I understand correctly so is most of the other teams in the conference. No time like NOW. We are not a great shooting team, so take it to the basket! Also, is VBerg out for the year?

  17. freshmanin83 02/14/2012 at 6:59 PM #

    NCAAT is a nice thought. If NIT is what happens then I hope we take it. The more playing time for the guys with good coaching hopefully the better they will be next year.

  18. JEOH2 02/14/2012 at 7:13 PM #

    i hate playing in the Not Important Tournament…but just like playing in a crappy bowl…the extra practices…more time to grow team chemistry…its very valuable…and while winning the thing is not front page news…its still a momentum boost… Wichita State can attest to that…

  19. 61Packer 02/14/2012 at 10:04 PM #

    The NIT sucks. If we get invited, I’d rather we didn’t go. It sure as hell didn’t help our program all those seasons Herb took us there, and I can’t see how it’ll help us now. If we can’t grow from the time we throw it up in November until mid-March, we sure won’t improve by playing small schools or other big schools who have had a mediocre season. In some ways it’s harder to win the NIT than the NCAA because you end up playing on somebody else’s home court, and if you do win it, you’ll be labeled a failure if you don’t make the NCAAs soon after.

    I agree 100% with JEOH2 above in that being in the NIT is like playing in a crappy bowl. Maybe the NIT would be good for a Southern Conference School, but for an ACC school trying to return to the big time, the NIT label is one that won’t be easily shed. I’d rather not play than go there.

  20. VaWolf82 02/15/2012 at 1:20 AM #

    My own opinion matches Palm and Lunardi. They can make a living doing this because they have a proven track record. State is on the bubble and could easily move either way.

    Those of you that are laying out paths that don’t include a win against Duke, FSU, UNC or a Friday win in the ACCT are setting yourself up for disappointment. State could still get in, but it is no sure thing.

    EDIT

    Thanks to Alpha or O3 for the new edit window. Very nice!

  21. 1.21 Jigawatts 02/15/2012 at 7:40 AM #

    Texas’ win last night over Okalahoma helps State more than hurts them because now Texas won’t be on the razor’s edge of RPI Top 50.

    Virginia’s loss to Clemson helps State in the ACC race.

    Bubble teams losing so far this week that should help State:

    Alabama
    Iowa State
    Northwestern
    Mississippi State
    Kansas State
    Minnesota

  22. DRW 02/15/2012 at 10:14 AM #

    According to collegepri.com, we have two top 50 wins(Texas and Miami) and two >100 losses, GT and Stanford. We need Stanford to improve their RPI.

  23. HPWolf 02/15/2012 at 11:06 AM #

    OK 61 Packer, I’m no Sendek fan but let’s not rewrite history because we don’t like the man or the way he coaches. Herb took State to the NCAA tornament his last 5 seasons. Not the NIT. Let’s keep it straight.

  24. 1.21 Jigawatts 02/15/2012 at 11:12 AM #

    Losses:
    Syracuse = 1
    UNC = 8
    Indiana = 15
    Vanderbilt = 28
    Virginia = 40
    Stanford = 104
    Georgia Tech = 147

    Wins:
    Miami = 33
    Texas = 41
    Maryland = 91
    St. Bonaventure = 95
    Princeton = 101
    UNC-A = 118
    Wake Forest (x2) = 146
    Georgia Tech = 147

  25. TOB4PREZ 02/15/2012 at 9:23 PM #

    Those of you poo pooing an NIT bid should we not make the big dance need to have your heads examined… The extra games alone are worth accepting an NIT bid.

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