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Kahn,
If I understand your comments you are apologizing for the win? I guess I don’t see it that way. Syracuse went down there in early February and got destroyed. The big picture is that the Pack have won 4 out of the last five. Three of those on the road. Two against the top 15 in the country. Think about that. This team was not projected to make the NCAA. I am not saying I am happy to be a just above average program either but State has not experienced this level of success since the V days.
The tournament will be short for 34 teams. Can’t have any success to build on if you don’t get in.
Nah, a win is a win and that is good in and of itself. I expected (and expect) us to make the NCAA. We have enough talent to do it. It seems like there’s this shock factor that we’re in the conversation for it, which kind of bewilders me. That said, the Clemson win is just another example of our inconsistency. We have the ability to play really well, but we all too often have these Clemson-type games. If they hadn’t out-Wolfpacked us, we would not have won. And you can’t blame it on a young team. I mean, you can, but what was the reason last year? And the year before? And next year? It’s frustrating knowing that we have the ability to legitimately compete with almost anyone and also lose to almost anyone. That never seems to change no matter what personnel suits up.
Last four years under Gott
2014-15 18-12 (probably 20-14)
2013-14 22-14
2012-13 24-11
2011-12 24-13I think it is safe to say we see a trend.
Year 1: Exceed all expectations and make the Sweet 16
Year 2: Lose Painter and some others to transfer. Thin bench. But still underperformed.
Year 3: Lose 4 starters. Rebuilding year. TJ Warren steps up and exceeds all expectations and we make the NCAA tournament again.
Year 4: Picked 10th in the ACC. Exceeding pre-season expectations.All I see are teams that are in some form of rebuilding in 3 out of 4 the years Gottfried’s been here and each seems to be managing to beat expectations.
Year 5 will be interesting, assuming we have no transfers, as we will return enough players to be both deep and experienced and should expect more.
Why the huge disparity between DanceCard and the Palm’s and Lunardi’s of the world?
I don’t know the answer, but I have noticed that Palm/Lunardi don’t like to make big changes from one update to the next. To me, this means that they’re using past impressions possibly with future predictions to pull their stuff together.
The Dance Card no longer lists their criteria, but they used to. Here’s what they used at one time:
– RPI Rank (Old Version where home/road games count the same)
– Conference RPI Rank
– Number of wins against teams ranked from 1-25 in RPI
– Difference in number of wins and losses in the conference
– Difference in number of wins and losses against teams ranked 26-50 in RPI
– Difference in number of wins and losses against teams ranked 51-100 in RPISo bad losses don’t count for the Dance Card but I doubt either “expert” has forgotten the BC ass-kicking.
The win at Clemson is currently a Top-100 win which means something to the DC, but might not to Palm/LundardiInteresting side note:
In this year’s practice selection for the media, it was specifically mentioned that conference record wasn’t on the data sheets and implied that it didn’t matter. The other thing that has supposedly changed is the emphasis on “entire body of work”, which would imply that conference results are no more important than OOC results. And yet, the DC has only missed on two teams over the last three years. File this under “Things that make you go hmmmm”.IIRC, Kyle Washington showed up both times last year in the Syracuse games. Double digit rebounds in the first 1 pt loss and hit several mid range jumpers in the second 3 pt win. I enjoy these guys and will be disappointed if any leave.
All I see are teams that are in some form of rebuilding in 3 out of 4 the years Gottfried’s been here and each seems to be managing to beat expectations.
Gott isn’t going anywhere and I’m pulling for him/State. But we should at least keep the discussion grounded in reality.
A very high number of teams undergo rebuilding every year. So Gott isn’t going through anything that dozens of other coaches aren’t dealing with as well. The focus needs to be on accomplishments, not excuses. BTW, “accomplishments” are concrete achievements not some fuzzy “exceeding expectations” BS.
our bigs got NNoko in foul trouble. Also they were taking a lot of jumpers during the drought, after a stretch where Anya was owning them inside. But sure, we won “just because” they went on a drought. We played them tough, showed our improved defense and rebounding, and had generated sufficient offense during a critical stretch to pull it out. Overall, a nice step forward. Say what you want about Turner, but his back-to-back threes to tie changed the game.
Last four years under Gott
2014-15 18-12 (probably 20-14)
2013-14 22-14
2012-13 24-11
2011-12 24-13I think it is safe to say we see a trend.
Year 1: Exceed all expectations and make the Sweet 16
Year 2: Lose Painter and some others to transfer. Thin bench. But still underperformed.
Year 3: Lose 4 starters. Rebuilding year. TJ Warren steps up and exceeds all expectations and we make the NCAA tournament again.
Year 4: Picked 10th in the ACC. Exceeding pre-season expectations.All I see are teams that are in some form of rebuilding in 3 out of 4 the years Gottfried’s been here and each seems to be managing to beat expectations.
Year 5 will be interesting, assuming we have no transfers, as we will return enough players to be both deep and experienced and should expect more.
Why do expectations of journalists matter? Why would that factor into any dicussion about Gott’s performnce? I would argue they are lowering their epxectation because of the coaches past history.
Not enough talend? Our incoming recruits are rated higher than every ACC school not wearing blue.
Not enough experience? Our three starting guards have a total of 11 years of college basketball experience.
Not played in the system enough? Four of our starters have been playing together for almost two full seasons.
I would argue we are underperforming.I also do not see the rebuilding argument as being one in favor of a coach. He should havea solid core of upper classmen by his fourth year.
Given he is averaging two transfers a year it is not safe to assume no transfers.
If we end up losing Turner, Lee and one transfer we should get an idea of what Gott’s ceiling looks like. We would go into next year pretty solid at every position and our ceiling would depend on Henderson and the improvement from the bigs and the twins.
The only potential red flag I see is that recruiting has been non-existent this year. Maybe that’s on purpose because they really like the group coming back. Theoretically we will only lose Lacey even after next season. I just hope the Martins are happy. Those two young men know how to play basketball.
I expected this team to be good, and I certainly DO agree that the media were underselling us due to a lack of faith in MG’s ability and/or NC State’s program in general.
Cat and KH were the two lynchpins in my mind, and when they turned the corner so did we as a team (the BC abomination notwithstanding).
Given he is averaging two transfers a year
He isn’t averaging two transfers per year. We’ve been over this multiple times. If you want to make a case for why Gott has disappointed or isn’t the right coach for us, have at it. But stick to actual facts rather than exaggeration.
That terrifies me. If you really think we’d get a nice cake draw like Ole Miss/Nova, I have Florida real estate you might be interested in.
So we’ve seen plenty of bashing of Gott’s ability to coach a team that plays good defense.
State has given up the 7th fewest ppg (65.2) in the conference, which is slightly better than average.
State has the 8th best defensive rating (92.05) in the conference — exactly middle of the conference.
State has the 6th best net rating (+21.79), behind only UVA, Duke, UNC, Lousiville, ND.In this closing stretch, they have held 5 of 6 opponents to 65 points or fewer, and they are 4-1 in those games.
Is anyone yet willing to give Gott and staff any credit for improved defense?
Meanwhile, State has still been solid on offense:
State is 4th in the conference in ppg (70.6).
State has the 5th best offensive rating (113.84) in the conference.Like all fans, I want more wins and better performance. But it just seems that a lot of State fans have made up their minds that Gott is the wrong guy, and they fit all results into that predetermined perspective. As they say, haters gonna hate.
I agree with Trout’s take, as I posted in previous threads. IMO one more win and we are in, regardless of whether it is Syracuse or an ACC tournament win.
We can talk all day about exceeding expectations or not reaching expectations but in the end all that matters is having a chance to play in the tournament. We sure as hell have a possible opportunity to play in the Dance and that my friends is all that matters. Once we get in anything can happen and will happen. Looking at that bracket you posted wufpup76, I could argue that 27 teams have a legit chance at winning the National Championship. That’s what makes this time of the year so special. There will be 279 teams that will not be dancing this year. Being in attendance is special and moves up forward.
BJD..who is KH?
King Hippo! aka Beejay Anya
He was ALMKH (A Leaner, Meaner King Hippo) for awhile, but he was not a happy Hippo at that weight and he’s played MUCH better since bulking back up.
This is DEFINITELY a nickname given out of love as he is my favorite player and I took King Hippo in his honor as my handle on another sports blog.
Given he is averaging two transfers a year
He isn’t averaging two transfers per year. We’ve been over this multiple times. If you want to make a case for why Gott has disappointed or isn’t the right coach for us, have at it. But stick to actual facts rather than exaggeration.
Tyler Harris
Painter
Wee baby shamus
Purvis
goofy german kid
Raymond6 players 3 years
What am I missing?You’re using that against him?
Just stating it is not a given there will be no transfers this year given the amount he has already had. However it is certainly not a feather in his cap.
As a reminder, we will only have 9 scholarship players next year. If one transfers or, Lord forbid, gets hurt we will have a very short bench indeed.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Tau837 wrote:</div>
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Rick wrote:</div>
Given he is averaging two transfers a yearHe isn’t averaging two transfers per year. We’ve been over this multiple times. If you want to make a case for why Gott has disappointed or isn’t the right coach for us, have at it. But stick to actual facts rather than exaggeration.
Tyler Harris
Painter
Wee baby shamus
Purvis
goofy german kid
Raymond6 players 3 years
What am I missing?Alex Johnson
Ralston Turner
Desmond Lee
Trevor Lacey
Gunner HendersonI think that might be the argument. Other than Painter, you could argue that we Gott an inbound upgrade for every one of the guys who left.
The number of transfers in Mens D1 basketball in general is at or around 2/year on average based on numbers I’ve seen kicked around here. I loved the days when guys stayed for four years. It made for better team basketball, but I don’t think Gott’s numbers are out of line, especially on a “net transfer basis”.
You also have to consider the flip side. One of the BEST aspects of MG is that he sees the world how it really is, not how it Pollyanna-ish “should” be. I call it the “Calipari” principle, and damn it, I like it.
In this instance, he accepts that there will be transfers in the modern college basketball landscape. He doesn’t try to blackball kids (ask Adam Harrington about how “noble” HWSNBN is on that front), or keep kids from moving on. And he is always thinking ahead to filling roster gaps with kids who have similarly chosen to move on from elsewhere. The guys that he has brought in have been extremely valuable indeed.
We don’t dance in years 1, 3, or 4 without the transfers MG brought into the program, and that doesn’t even factor in the impact it has developing leadership/camaraderie having these older players essentially spend a year on the practice squad getting acclimated before they can demand PT.
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