The Silver Lining

There is a silver lining. But I’ll get to that in a minute.

Last night, 45 fouls were called collectively. That’s 5 more than the game has minutes. If you look at the stat sheet, you see that we got called for 24 fouls and they got called for 21. This, according to those who didn’t watch the game or are in #protecttheblues denial, would indicate an evenly called game.

We obviously saw the shift in momentum when the stripes called a barrage of fouls to begin the 2nd half (can’t let Duke lose honestly #protecttheblues). Obvious LOL of some fouls came when Richard Howell was pushed down and tripped someone because he was on the floor and he gets whistled for his 4th. Or the time where Calvin gets a rebound and has 3 Duke attack dogs hacking at him to the point where he loses the ball out of bounds. No whistle, except to notify everyone that Duke gets the ball on the turnover. Or the insane over the back no calls that Duke gets away with all the time. Or the obvious flops (I recall one sequence where two Duke players went down simultaneously). It was so bad that even Gmenski had to report to the folks that Duke was simply fishing for fouls.  All I know is that you have to have help losing a 20 point lead with 11 minutes to go.

And here’s that help: 18 fouls called against our starters. 10 on Duke’s. Thorton was Duke’s only starter in foul trouble who had 4 fouls and 0 points to go along with them.

I know, I’m preaching to the choir.

The silver lining, though, came via twitter this morning from @thedevilwolf who gave us this gem:

At least NC State’s starters should all be well rested for FSU on Saturday. Am I right?

Yes, @thedevilwolf, you would be right.

11-12 Basketball Big Four Rivals

47 Responses to The Silver Lining

  1. bill.onthebeach 02/17/2012 at 10:42 AM #

    My 7cents:

    Against tremendous adversity in a hostile environment….

    1. I was DAMN PROUD of the way our team played last night.

    2. I was DAMN PROUD of the way our coaches prepared our team and coached during the game.

    3. Game was a clear and true indication of:

    –How far we have *progressed” at this point in the season…our strengths and our weaknesses.

    –Exactly what we need to be able to consistently do to get to the next level.

    The looks on CALVIN and Richard’s faces at the end of the game said it all better than I can.

    4. CALVIN and A.J. played their a$$#s off.

    5. Didn’t expect a great game from Scott with DOOK’s perimeter defense.

    6. Officiating left a lot to be desired in a game of this importance.

    AND MOST IMPORTANTLY…

    7. Next game is tomorrow and the NOLES better bring their A game or we will blow them out.

  2. Ed89 02/17/2012 at 10:46 AM #

    Here’s the stat that sticks out to me:

    Mason and Miles Plumlee – 52 minutes – 3 total fouls
    CJL and Howell – 48 minutes – 10 total fouls

    I’m sure it is because Mason and Miles are quicker, more athletic, and just don’t foul as much. Riiiiggghhttt…

    That being said, CJL and Rich showed who had the better front line. I want them in the ACC tournament!

  3. tvp1 02/17/2012 at 10:50 AM #

    In 10 prior ACC games, CJ Williams – our lone senior starter and best perimeter defender by far – averaged 31.7 minutes and 2.1 fouls per game.

    Last night, 5 fouls in 12 minutes.

    The “GMan” made a revealing comment last night. He said the refs come into the game with their own “game plan.” I believe that is true. And I believe that “game plan” worked to f***ing perfection last night.

  4. Ed89 02/17/2012 at 10:57 AM #

    ^The “GMan” made a revealing comment last night. He said the refs come into the game with their own “game plan.” I believe that is true. And I believe that “game plan” worked to f***ing perfection last night.

    I heard the same thing, and thought the same thing.

  5. ryebread 02/17/2012 at 11:03 AM #

    K manipulated that game plan by the refs as well. He was on them hard in the first half. They “evened things up” a bit at the beginning of the second half (read ensure that we couldn’t play aggressively).

    Sadly, I could see this thing coming a mile away when we were up at the half. It still didn’t make it any less frustrating or painful to watch.

    The thing is that this really does Duke and the ACC no favors at the end of the year. Duke is not going to get this kind of BS in their favor in the NCAA tournament, and will bow out at about the Sweet 16 (quite possibly in a blow out). The ACC will potentially have fewer teams in the tournament, and thus less revenue for the conference as a whole. It’s really, really short sighted and shows just how poorly the ACC is run.

  6. Howler 02/17/2012 at 11:05 AM #

    This is what stinks about the loss of the double round robin. As soon as the game was finished, I thought how I couldn’t wait to get the Devils in the RBC. Too bad. I hope we do see them in the ACC Tourney. And I bet they don’t want to see us.

  7. Rick 02/17/2012 at 11:09 AM #

    I have no desire to play either of the blues.
    I honestly am glad they have taken away the second UNC game as it is just one less we can get screwed in.

    I am still completely baffled the Plumlees only had 3 fouls.

    I guess the ACC refs watched tape of their “tendencies” before the game.

  8. ncsu1987 02/17/2012 at 11:11 AM #

    I’m sorry but when even GMan comments on the bias, something needs to be done. I don’t have the solution, and I hate whining without suggestions for remedy, but DAMN.

  9. DC_wolf 02/17/2012 at 11:12 AM #

    Ed89, your stat on the Plumlees was the same I was going to drop – cudos for beating me to it.

    Hey, officiating left a LOT to be desired (when hasn’t that been true in Durham?), but before we pull up stakes & pack the truck for another conference we have 2 big games @ our house – as Gott himself said, TWO great opportunities.

    We’ve got a short turnaround & have to forget this stinker. The least we can do is put on our red, put on our game faces, show up & show the team and the coaches how much we appreciate what they’ve done so far…

  10. Khan 02/17/2012 at 11:15 AM #

    There are two reasons that we lost that game and why we will continue to lose most every game against top tier teams:

    1) Foul trouble, to state the obvious.

    2) More importantly, composure down the stretch. We have not figured out how to win. We can all whine about the officiating, and I agree it was bad, but it did not account for the 13 points we scored in the last 11 minutes or so of the game. Until an on-the-court leader emerges from this team that can carry the team on his shoulders at the end of the game, you can basically forget about winning these kinds of games.

    As far as officiating goes, anyone with even half a monkey brain could clearly see that the officials came out with a distinct purpose for the first 10 minutes of the second half, when the whistle blew continuously. Then, once Duke had secured the momentum, the whistling dried up and physical play was allowed to resume. Unfortunately, the damage had already been done as our starting line-up was decimated. None of that excuses our stupidity with blatantly fouling people far away from the basket, but it did basically prohibit us from playing any sort of defense at all for the last 10 minutes.

    There are no moral vistories or silver linings from this game. We already know we’re better than last year — we knew that before playing the game. The fact is, we gave away a huge lead. They were assisted, but we still collapsed in on ourselves. We don’t know how to win big games yet or even how to remain composed at the end of big games. We’re mentally fragile. Until that changes, and until a leader emerges that can remain on the court for the duration of the game, this will continue to be the most likely outcome.

  11. NCStatePride 02/17/2012 at 11:18 AM #

    “something needs to be done. I don’t have the solution,”

    And imperfect situation calls for an imperfect solution.

    Leave the ACC.

  12. tobaccordshow 02/17/2012 at 11:22 AM #

    “Until an on-the-court leader emerges from this team that can carry the team on his shoulders at the end of the game, you can basically forget about winning these kinds of games.”

    Hey Herb Sendek is back! Let’s throw the players under the bus!

    You do realize that we had no composure because we were NOT ALLOWED TO PLAY BASKETBALL! You’re asking for a leader to emerge from the team with knives to go and win against a team with guns.

  13. Pack85EE 02/17/2012 at 11:41 AM #

    OK guys, I hated the fouls as much as the next but many of you guys have gone overboard. Some of our guys do commit stupid fouls. And no one on the last two message lines I have read, mentioned how Duke helped us out by sucking at shooting thru most of the game but were red hot at the end. Quit whining, you sound like a bunch of heels. We lost because we let the air out of the ball and softened on defense, allowing Duke to get hot while the Pack got cold. Yes fouls were the reason for both reactions but that’s the way the ball bounces. The refs are not as biased as you guys are saying and blaming the refs are what the tarbaby fans do. Be men!

  14. WuffDad 02/17/2012 at 11:42 AM #

    There were the usual unexplainable phantom fouls and no calls when the opposition gets (one or more) running starts from the foul line and blows our rebounder out of bounds. We did get screwed.

    BUT, WE make far too many stupid fouls. Been doing this all season. Big guys away from the basket, reaching in when they are past you, pushing a defender with two hands in frustration, etc. At this point in the season we should be smarter than that and as Gman or the other guy said “be aware of the game situation”. Know how important you are to the team.

    Every big game I’ve seen this year has come down to multiple key players in early foul trouble – and usually 1 or 2 of those fouls could have been avoided. Save them for the stretch when you need to be aggressive.

    And, my only complaint with how the team has been handled is that we should have gotten 1 or 2 other bench players into more games to prep them for fill in roles or to prevent early foul trouble by the starters. Surely in the 6-8 guys on the bench 1 or 2 can play a few minutes of major college BB by now.

  15. Moose Hunter 02/17/2012 at 11:44 AM #

    Need to develop poise down the stretch. Also AJ’s emergence will be huge down the road. He is getting better and better.

  16. Khan 02/17/2012 at 11:50 AM #

    “Hey Herb Sendek is back! Let’s throw the players under the bus!

    You do realize that we had no composure because we were NOT ALLOWED TO PLAY BASKETBALL! You’re asking for a leader to emerge from the team with knives to go and win against a team with guns.”

    That’s just silly. Sorry.

    If you’re trying to say that the ability to overcome adversity is not important, then you should probably not even bother discussing this. Good teams who win big games have the ability to overcome adversity. Most good teams have a go-to guy. Who is our go-to guy? Tell me.

    And if you read my comments, you’ll understand that I indicated that we were not allowed to play defense. We were allowed to run an offense, however, which we did to magnificent futility over the last 10 minutes. Until we have someone that can manage these situations better, I see no reason to expect different results. Do you?

    I’m proud of our players. I’m proud of our coaches. I’m proud of our effort, especially compared to last year. But that doesn’t mean we aren’t lacking in some areas. It is by no means throwing someone under the bus when analyzing a weakness. To suggest otherwise is simply disingenouous.

  17. tobaccordshow 02/17/2012 at 11:57 AM #

    It depends on how you define adversity. It’s like the heels bitching about the adversity of their football woes.

    Were there self inflicted wounds? Yes, there are in every game. Can you explain the foul strategy in the 1st and 2nd halves? Can you explain how the plumlees can go over the back and give a reach around and not get a foul called?

    Lets start calling bullshit bullshit.

  18. PackerInRussia 02/17/2012 at 11:58 AM #

    “If you look at the stat sheet, you see that we got called for 24 fouls and they got called for 21. This, according to those who didn’t watch the game or are in #protecttheblues denial, would indicate an evenly called game.”

    The thing is, even if they’re called even, if you call tons of fouls, the team that only goes 6-7 deep is at a disadvantage.

  19. genew 02/17/2012 at 12:02 PM #

    What we are lacking is depth. We have 3 recruts in burger game. Little paitence please. RBC tomorrow! Be there. Be loud. Be proud. GO PACK

  20. Khan 02/17/2012 at 12:06 PM #

    “Were there self inflicted wounds? Yes, there are in every game. Can you explain the foul strategy in the 1st and 2nd halves? Can you explain how the plumlees can go over the back and give a reach around and not get a foul called?”

    Nope, and I agree with you 100% here.

    But if you’re telling me that we’re going to win these games without being able to overcome setbacks like that, then I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. We’re NC State. We have and will continue to face these kinds of challenges, especially in games like this. That’s just a plain and simple fact. If we’re going to get to the next level then it’s going to take winning these games — games in which things (like bad officiating, miraculous shots, freak injuries, whatever) fall against us — and the only way that you turn the corner and win these kinds of games consistently, other than luck, is to rise up and find some leadership, some composure, and some poise. That leads to success which builds on itself.

    We don’t have that. Until we get that, it will be difficult, nigh impossible, to be an upper tier team.

    And for the record, I think we will get that. It’s just hard to say when…. It might be next year. But I believe it will come.

  21. tobaccordshow 02/17/2012 at 12:08 PM #

    “But if you’re telling me that we’re going to win these games without being able to overcome setbacks like that, then I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree”

    That’s the thing Khan, WE SHOULDN’T HAVE TO OVERCOME THIS! If you agree that the Plumlees can do whatever the hell they want without a whistle, then you have to recognize that there’s a problem.

    I’ll even hand it to you and acknowledge that PROBABLY we commit more dumb fouls than them. However, the discrepency was large with who the fouls were called on and at what times they were called.

    These are hurdles that are not supposed to exist in the game.

  22. PackerInRussia 02/17/2012 at 12:12 PM #

    Pack85EE, the refs don’t have to be biased to be bad/effect the outcome of a game. Calling 45 fouls should never happen unless people are physically beating each other. That enlarges the role of the refs too much; to the point that they have a hand in deciding the outcome of the game. They may or may not purposefully decide which team they’ll call in favor of, but just by calling tons of fouls, it ensures players will be in foul trouble and have to spend significantly more minutes on the bench than planned. Sure, fouls are a part of basketball games, but they’re not the reason people tune in and your whole team shouldn’t be in foul trouble. If everyone on the team got herpes, would it just be a coincidence? It’s a shame that a team can’t go out and play hard for 40 minutes without having to worry about fouls for most of the game.

  23. PackMan97 02/17/2012 at 12:14 PM #

    The biggest issue is that our guys commit too many stupid fouls. It’s not going to give fixed overnight. It’s gotten better…but WTF was Howell doing when he got his 5th? Seriously? Come on man.

    If you look at the 11 minute mark when we had three guys with four and two guys with three…probably only one or two calls on each were questionable…but the rest where just stupid. They weren’t good fouls.

    Our guys do need to learn how to play defense better without fouling. Without the stupid fouls that they know they shouldn’t get. It’s just frustrating.

    It’s the stupid fouls that allow the refs to do what they did to open the second half. If our guys had only one foul going into the second half, the refs couldn’t have done jack crap.

  24. RegularExpression 02/17/2012 at 12:17 PM #

    Asking us to learn to win under these circumstances is like giving your kid a bike with flat tires, a rusty chain and no seat and telling him to learn how to ride. Sure, he may eventually learn but wouldn’t it be more fair to the kid to give him all the advantages the other kids have?

    I can only imagine the uproar if we are left on the outside come selection Sunday. The good news is, if we play like we did against Duke the rest of the year that won’t even be a problem. Also, we have an AD who is proactive. I would bet every penny I have that someone is hearing her squeaky wheel this morning.

  25. Khan 02/17/2012 at 12:24 PM #

    Tobacco…

    I hear what you’re saying. We shouldn’t have to overcome officiating at least. There was nothing in that game that warrented 45 total fouls, like another poster said. The officiating in this league is terrible, and usually, we’re on the wrong end of it. But nothing is going to change that, which is MY point.

    Either we win in spite of it, or we fold up. In my opinion, the only way we’ll consistenly win in spite of things like that is to have a calming presence on the court…someoe that instills confidence and can excecute successfully.

    The officiating is terrible, but we’d better figure out a way to win in spite of it, or we’re going to be having this same conversation for the foreseeable future.

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