UNC Problem is an NCAA Problem

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    Steward Mandel (Fox Sports): Wainstein describes a culture in which academic-athletic counselors for the football and basketball teams knowingly steer
    [See the full post at: UNC Problem is an NCAA Problem]


    The Minnesota comparison is great!

    What penalties did Minnesota pay?

    The National Collegiate Athletic Association placed the University of Minnesota men’s basketball program on probation for four years yesterday, took away five scholarships and put limits on recruiting contacts for what the organization called the most serious violations to come before it in 20 years.

    More interesting:

    The N.C.A.A. also ordered that team records from the N.C.A.A. tournament and National Invitation Tournament — and the tournament records of players who engaged in academic fraud from 1993-94 through 1998-99 — be erased.

    In addition, all references to the program’s success those years — including its 1997 Final Four appearance — must be expunged from everything from recruiting brochures to the banners in the university’s field house.

    From NYTimes 10/25/2000: Minnesota Penalized by N.C.A.A.


    The “punishment” here could well be “time served” and another wrist-slap.


    Meh……aint nothing happening, and we all know it.


    The 93 banner should come down in addition to 2005 and 2009, board up the dean dome for 5 years and make them go back to carmichael. Add 4 more years of lost scholarships in FB and 5 years for BB 2 scholarships per. Oh and Swoffard needs to be fired for his part in all of this, and you KNOW he had a part, that’s why he was in Indy defending them, trying CYA for himself. And one more thing all UNX apparel would be mandated to include the phrase “The TRUE Carolina way, We’re a bunch of cheaters” in letters at least 2″ tall. Considering what Dean and that bunch did to Valvano in 89 I’d say that would be comparable punishment but a touch on the light side if you ask me.

    Smarter than the average bear


    The other question is what will Ross and the board of governors do? Since the cheaters are their prize school will they demand the same actions they took against NC State and Valvano or will they just ignore this and move on?

    Prowling Woofie

    Clem Haskins – 18 players.

    Dean Smith et al – 3,100 student(gag)-athletes.

    I think the number is higher than that, but even that conservative number represents 172/year. Assuming a bell curve as they ramped it up and then backed off as the heat was applied, and you’ve got a staggering number of occurrences during those title-winning years, no doubt.

    Lose the laundry, strip the records.

    Oh, and fire the Commish. For being the lying, hypocritical POS we’ve all known he is.


    Oh, and fire the Commish.

    I’ve asked this before to the tune of crickets. But how are you going to do that? Not happening.


    Congrats to SFN, PackPride, Wolfpacker, Dan Kane, Yahoo Sports, ESPN, and many others for doing their jobs to keep this racketeering from being swept neatly under to rug. This is mere shades less serious than point-shaving in the 50’s, but wait, scratch that – they both involved deception for personal gain.

    Yes, we all know there are two kinds of people in the world – those that get caught and those that don’t! But when you get caught, you should pay the price. If ever there was a reason to resurrect the NCAA “death penalty,” this is it! At a minimum, the same that happened to Minnesota – banners down, records expunged, extended probation, lost scholarships, et, al.


    As cited by someone who has seen this type of issue before….

    Oklahoma University professor Gerald Gurney, a past president of an academic advising association for college athletes, said the findings pointed to numerous NCAA violations, including one of the most serious, for a lack of institutional control.

    “The facts describe a widespread and well-coordinated cheating scandal to maintain the eligibility of athletes,” Gurney said. “Far more than I originally imagined.”


    “The facts describe a widespread and well-coordinated cheating scandal to maintain the eligibility of athletes,” Gurney said. “Far more than I originally imagined.”

    Even if it wasn’t the head coaches doing it IT WAS people tied to them. Plausible deniability in this case DOES not deflect the necessity for the institution to pay the price of those who worked in the system and cheated the system.

    Smarter than the average bear


    Bubba said he saw no reason to self-impose anything. Swaf is extremely annoyed by the NCAA and their presence on his campus. Others are extremely proud of how UNC handled a difficult situation. The same old beat goes on and on…….


    And is it not “equally” true, if not more so, that…
    The NCAA “problem” is *NC’s biggest problem ??

    In any “court” where “equity and justice” may apply…
    the general rule is…
    “punishment should fit the ‘crime’…”

    BUT that is always “relative” to the precedents set in previous “cases”
    AND the prevailing mood of the “society” over which that “court” rules.

    Nobody knows how much of Weinstein’s bill … has or will be passed around the “courthouse”.

    I know this would keep me awake at night if I was the “defendant” and paying that bill, and… I’m sure there are more than a few folks over in Chapel Hill who are wondering about the same things.

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!

    Cunningham already stated not going to be any self imposed punishment. Now that is arrogance! In other words: report meant nothing, we did nothing wrong, business as usual. McCants was on TV this morning said the investigation never contacted him? I smell a lawsuit coming, he got to be pissed considering that released statement signed by 16 former bball players calling him a liar.


    This is all great, but I’m afraid nothing is going to happen. I think the NCAA, Swof and UNC cut a deal a while back. That’s the only reason the football program got even a slap on the wrist.


    This is all great, but I’m afraid nothing is going to happen. I think the NCAA, Swof and UNC cut a deal a while back. That’s the only reason the football program got even a slap on the wrist.

    I think you’re mostly correct, but there’s nothing like public outcry to shame people into action.


    Mandel is right. If the NCAA doesn’t hit UNC with a heavy hammer, their credibility is gone. If that happens, what do those NCAA trophies really mean?

    All the ACC ADs should immediately demand Swofford’s resignation. He has been implicated in the academic fraud and is unfit to lead the ACC.


    He (old Johnny S.) has been implicated in the academic fraud ….

    Can you post link to “hard evidence’ from the Weinstein Report of this ?

    I’m not saying it’s not true… just didn’t see that myself…yet…

    #NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!
    Prowling Woofie

    “Clem Haskins – 18 players.

    Dean Smith et al – 3,100 student(gag)-athletes.

    I think the number is higher than that, but even that conservative number represents 172/year. “

    Double-checked my figures here:

    3,100 students, of whom 47.6% were student(gag)-athletes, which is roughly 1,475. That still means an average of about 82/year for 18 years.



    Well Swoff was AD for 4 of the years when cheating was occurring. Therefore he’s responsible, AND when this thing broke no doubt he found out the hard way what actually occurred and tried to squash it.

    Smarter than the average bear


    Regarding adequate punishment, at a minimum, the NCAA should hold them to current APR standards which state:

    Each student-athlete receiving athletically related financial aid earns one point for staying in school and one point for being academically eligible…A 930 APR predicts about a 50 percent graduation rate. Teams falling below an APR of 930 face sanctions…”

    What are the penalties for teams falling behind in APR? The first level of penalties limits teams to 16 hours of practice per week over five days. This represents a reduction of four hours and one day per week of practice time. The four fewer hours are to be replaced with academic activities. The second level adds competition reductions. The third level includes a variety of potential penalties including coaching suspensions and restricted NCAA membership.


    It would be interesting to look at all of the cases that ineligible athletes were eligible only because of fake classes/fake grades and calculate for how many years they would have been under the APR requirement (if any) and get an idea of what their penalties should be. Point: If the final penalties are less than the APR-required penalties, then it’s more advantageous to cheat, get caught, and do the time than it is to not cheat.


    If muliti-year, multi-sport postseason bans don’t occur then the NCAA should just close the door on doling out punishments of any kind to any school. Also, this report covers but one prong (haha! 🙂 )


    It seems like if UNC is not punished, other member schools could use that as a precedent to challenge NCAA sanctions past and present.


    Hey Russkie, looking at your post and seeing what the hours get reduced to, I kind of think maybe the NCAA allows too much practice time for most folks to be real “student-athletes.” 20 hours over five days is four hours a day. Add in gametime and pregame/postgame meetings, suiting up, travel, and wow. There’s not much time even if a kid really wants to go to class.

    Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. Mao Zedong


    Couple of comments….

    Valvno is HISTORY…..we just don’t want it “re-written”. There is no Cluade Sitton in the N&O. They print what sells…..you gotta give Sitton credit. He said, privately and publicly, that he would “GET” Valvano. Some thought it was idle cocktail party chit chat….but we found out later that is was his MISSION.

    Rob (Reille WHO?) and Jimmy G (WRAL fame….who is focused on SELLING Political AD’s and also fostering he and his wife’s political agenda) need to chime in here…..but don’t hold your breath.

    Jeff Gravely (OK….a STATE Grad) pretty much nailed it this afternoon on 99.9. The call-in sports guys are a little more candid. Jeff’s take is that the NCAA has a SERIOUS problem. They have a very thorough and exhaustive “Investigation”. That is something that their Ex-Jock Investigators could NEVER even hope to produce or match.

    SO, they do NOT need to go through the little “ceremony and dance” of doing one. Here it is…..read ’em and WEEP.

    They will HAVE to do something. Just how much….now that is the question.

    UNC-Wilmington got rid of one of the Perps today. Ms (Ethics Award winner for 2015) Boxill will be GONE by sundown Friday. Or at least that is the rumor….who knows. I do NOT see how the little Smurfette can NOT fire her.

    SO, when will the NCAA “come to town”? The answer is NEVER….they do NOT need to. UNC paid upwards of 2 – 2.5 Million….and got a REAL report. BOY, were they surprised. Seems like they believed “their own”….right up until Uncle Julie and Debbie (Debbie Does UNC?….wait for the movie) realized that they COULD be jailed. HMMMM….nothing like a little reality to loosen one’s memory and also tongue.

    As to the Commish….Johnny BOY Swoff. Remember your history here, lads. WHO was the EX Kansas Coach that visited his alma mater and learned of the AFAM Set-up that THEY had just put in? Give that lad an E-Cigar. Dean, the MAN, Smith. SO, Dean wanted an AFAM at HIS school. SO, he needs a “fixer”. Johnny Boy fit that role to a “T”. Johnny had pics of some of the faculty with the ill-fated “Sweet Carolines”. SO, he pushed the AFAM idea and they said YES….kill the photos…but send back in the Sweeties.

    SO, Dean set it up. Gutheridge NEVER changed it. Matter of fact….Wainstein reported that Matt D was TOLD by Dean and Bill…..do NOT MUCK UP the “academic support” system. You got to give UNC credit. They DID hone their craft and had a pretty good thing going.

    the NCAA WILL do something…..LOIC…..LOL is closer to reality….but your NEVER know.

    Stay tuned….I’ll bet that when the folks that are to be disciplined are called in, they THEN turn state’s evidence….and there is WAY MORE Dirty Jock Straps….

    AH YES>>>>>THE OCTOBER SURPRISE. I thought it would be at the Ballot Box….

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