- This topic has 22 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 1 month ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Is this where I am supposed to point out that the guy that Avent replaced has won two CWS since leaving NCSU? And that guy was a State alumni (Ray Tanner).
Hard to argue with those facts – mediocre about sums it up. At some point, no matter how much a coach loves his school, it is about your record. New coach in 2020 please.
Looking into the details of his record and postseason performance, other than the early 2000’s, Avent has been extremely consistent over the years.
So the real question is “what’s the minimum?” And remember that if the minimum wasn’t good enough, then it wouldn’t be the minimum, would it?
Personally, I think he has met the minimum from my standpoint. However, my question as the AD would be the same as it was to Tom O’Brien. If we both agree our goal is something more than what we’ve achieved (e.g. ACC Championship), what are we going to do differently to achieve that result? We know what they say about doing the same things and expecting different results.
Great assembly of the results. Honestly probably the best I have seen.
Would you be willing to do a similar analysis on the input$ the program has? Only by judging inputs vs outputs would one really be able to make an informed decision.
My stinking suspicion is that while Avent is the baseball version of HWSNBN with respect to the outputs, he is probably doing it with bottom of the conference inputs. Unlike HWSNBN, who was regularly squandering a king’s ransom, I suspect Avent is probably punching above the program’s weight. Make no mistake. I was adamant that HWSNBN needed to go, and still don’t regret that despite the years of wandering in the desert with Lowe and Gott. I am just not quite as convinced on Avent.
I doubt Avent is ever going to break through and win anything substantial. I just wonder if our program is really set up to do so. Tanner is the perfect example of a guy that wasn’t great by this analysis, but then went to a place with big time input$ And was able to break through. Did Tanner suddenly become better overnight, or was he unable to reach his full potential here? I think that is the question AD Yow has to ask….
Seems to me that Wolfpack officials are satisfied if not downright happy each season with football, basketball and baseball going .500 in the ACC, or somewhere near that. Just serve up enough cupcakes to cover the sub-.500 seasons.
The bar of ACC sports success at NCSU for the above 3 sports has become a Limbo bar.
13OT: I agree with you regarding football and baseball and maybe women’s basketball. I do not agree about men’s basketball. There are some expectations there, maybe not ones that reflect the top 20 input$ in nearly every metric, but there are some minimal expectations.
I have always thought the best way to change those expectations would be for men’s basketball to get back to performing like the input$ suggest it should. Do that and our fan base will get another taste of winning (in something meaningful) and expectations (and input$) will go up for football.
Baseball is going to be what it is. Run a clean program and make the post season, while doing it on the cheap is the model. It is what it is, and honestly is smart business. Oregon State winning another title is going to do very little for the university, and they invested heavily to get it. This is why I believe the yearly Avent debate over a 2 week period is nothing more than a blip on the radar for the administration.
Pitching Coach Scott Foxhall has bolted for the same position at Mississippi State. Backing the Pack has a good write-up here. I was believing that Scott would stay if offered the head coaching position, and I think he would be an upgrade in the chair. I hope we get an opportunity to give him that spot soon!!
The question I didn’t see addressed is why did Ray Tanner leave after 9 years? Was it lack of training facilities? Was it salary? Answers here would give us something to look at besides the W/L.
Doeren took Debbie Yow out to watch a practice in a cold, driving rain. The wind inverted her umbrella. Doeren asked her how she thought we would do if we had some recruits on official visits. The IPF got moved up from 6th on the priority list to 2nd behind Reynolds.
You can’t work with hitters without indoor batting cages and pitchers without indoor places to pitch, etc. Are the practice facilities sufficient to entice a good, new baseball coach or NC State a death wish for bright, young baseball coaches? Is Avent the best we can do with the baseball practice facilities we have and the salary we are willing to pay?
I’m not for keeping Avent. I just wanted to get real with the options we have.
It’s as if we prioritized our sports and mens Basketball was #1, Football #3 and baseball will be will be somewhere after that. (#2 Reynolds was a multi-sport deal)
I had a very candid conversation with Ray Tanner at Coach Esposito’s Celebration of Life, last Thursday.
Let’s just say that Sam very much encouraged him to bolt.Avent is under the gun.
Avent is in contract ‘conversations’ according to WRAL; the link is here. First, global warming, then Helsinki, now this.
So Sacco V are you trying to say that you think the Avent contract conversations are much ado about nothing?
I’m puzzled as to why they are occurring at all. Unless the ‘conversation’ is to assure his outright release/retirement and the promotion/hiring of another coach. I don’t think his last few years have been enough to earn him an extension, and this season’s high point occurred much too early and the collapse at the end was far too steep to warrant extension discussions. 22-seasons worth of this has salted me crusty. I want an announcement of retirement and a press conference with a new coach. And I know I’m not going to get that with news stories of ‘contract conversations.’
I’m puzzled as to why they are occurring at all.
That’s simple enough to answer… It’s what Debbie does with the head coach of all our sports at the end of the sport season.
We no longer have a Lacrosse team for the same reason we don’t have practice facilities for baseball and a diving facility for swimming — budget, i.e., money. NC State has to make some tough decisions about where to spend the money we have each year. Factor in the requirement to have equal athletic opportunities for women and we are between a rock and a hard place.
I see no point in making statements about our administration being satisfied with mediocrity. Ranking 15th in the Director’s Cup demonstrates they care. Many of us only care about men’s basketball, football and baseball. Some schools have chosen to go that way. Market analyis likely shows football is more bang for the buck for University branding, then men’s basketball, then the all the rest. As Rye stated not much return on money spent on baseball success.
Enough, enough. Greywolf, go waste your time somewhere else for a while.
GreyWolf, I completely agree with you, and I am concerned that Yow is NOT following her own policy here with regard to baseball and Avent where she clearly has with other sports. She’s made quality hires with Wes Moore (WBB), Pat Popolizio (Wrestling), Braden Holloway (Swimming/Diving), Dave Doeren (FB), Kevin Keatts (MBB) et. al. but Avent appears safe in his position. In the back of my feeble mind, I am hopeful that this ‘conversation’ included an agreement to let Avent coach out the rest of his contract, and then be done. 23 seasons is enough for any coach, especially one who has been consistent but not spectacular. Yow kicks the can down the road for the next AD to make a big hire knowing that the 2018-2019 sports program is in a better financial place to make one. I am disappointed that she didn’t make a change, but I completely understand that the finances are not there to buy him out or to replace him with a quality coach.
I am disappointed that she didn’t make a change, but I completely understand that the finances are not there to buy him out or to replace him with a quality coach.
Sacco, I sincerely believe it’s more than just money. Money won’t get a quality coach. The coaching fraternity talks and all the coaches know about our practice facility shortcomings. We don’t see behind the scenes. Pop may have been promised a new mat and mat room to practice on to entice him to come here. How do we do that? Lord knows we need one. Think about it. We don’t have enough mats to train on. Our meet facility (Reynolds) is outstanding but not our practice space.
Read what Mr. Dog said in response to my question. Sam likely knew we weren’t going to get practice facilities and/or assistant-coach money. Esposito was a good friend of AD Valvano and more than likely knew what was and what wasn’t going down. He also knew the financial position of the University.
It’s easy to fault Debbie Yow for this and that. I know she is lobbying, spread-sheets and all that, for money for all sports. Favoritism is a cheap shot and unwarranted (not you). It’s a bang for the buck situation. I’ve mentioned the Title (whatever) has to be considered or bad consequences occur.
I don’t mean to go on and on so I’ll close. Lets enjoy the recruiting.
Grey, I don’t mean to imply favoritism toward Avent, and I have been very pleased with Yow’s willingness to let coaches go when they don’t perform. Avent is the enigma. Other posters have mentioned that the administration is fine with mediocrity, but I don’t buy that for the afore-mentioned reasons of other coaches in other sports (including FB and MBB) getting fired for poor or average performance. Another year that goes is another year for a different school to grab up one of those really good coaches who don’t have great facilities but have great talent and have overachieved. Keatts came from UNCW; Popolizio from Binghamton. A great baseball coach is out there waiting to take the yoke and move this team forward.
SaccoV: I hear what you are saying but would suggest that if inputs are measured against outputs, then I’m not so sure that Avent is underachieving…………. Everything that I see says we’re paying in the bottom 3rd of the league to run our baseball program, yet are getting top 3rd results. How is that underachieving?
If I’m an AD, if I can run a non-revenue sport on the cheap, if it stays clean, graduates kids, gets better results than what I am spending, then that is an absolute no brainer. Why would I shake that up — particularly if it guaranteed that I would have to spend more, and might or might not actually yield better results?
66pack:
Here’s a look at OSU’s stadium:
Compare and contrast that with the Doak.Here’s information on OSU’s coaching salaries:
The OSU baseball coach now has a deal that runs through the 2022 season, according to the contact obtained by The Oregonian/OregonLive. Casey, who won two College World Series titles at OSU in 2006 and 2007, is set to make at least $5.5 million over the next six years.The 57-year-old has been given a $50,000 raise for each of the remaining four years on the deal, earning $800,000 for the coming year, $850,000 in 2018, $900,000 in 2019 and $950,000 in 2020. His annual salary will increase by another $50,000 over each of the next two years of the extension, concluding at $1.05 million in the final year.
.
.
.
The amended deal also features a deferred compensation account that will be credited with $13,889 each month starting in June 2016. Casey would receive the full balance upon completion of the contract or if terminated without cause. The balance would be forfeited if he voluntarily ended the agreement or was terminated for cause. Per terms of the current deal, the account could net Casey as much as an additional $1,013,897.In addition to Casey, Oregon State renewed the contracts for associate head coach Pat Bailey ($120,000) and pitching coach Nate Yeskie ($110,000). Both one-year deals feature raises of $30,000 from each prior agreement. The 2017 season will be Bailey’s 10th and Yeskie’s ninth at Oregon State.
We pay Avent less than 1/2 of that.
Don’t get me wrong. I’d like us to be winning titles too and I don’t think Avent is going to do it. I recognize that just may not be in the cards given the current reality of our baseball program.
Rye,
Glad I could fill some space while you gathered some real information. Can you get any info on OSU’s practice facilities. I think poor practice facilities would be a hindrance to landing an up and comer type coach. And it’s clear what a difference the IPF has made with the football team.Grey: A 2 minute pass suggests that sometimes they practice in the football facility. I didn’t look much though.
Here’s a good video that shows a “behind the scenes” from this past season:
Oregon State videoI am not behind the scenes of our baseball team, but I tend to doubt we have anything remotely similar with respect to investment — facilities, locker room, stadium, videography, etc.. We may though, and I’m happy to be corrected.
There are 297 D1 baseball teams that all want to win conference and national titles. Of those 297, how many really have the resources to win it all? People like to cite Coastal, but even they invested (albeit on their own scale):
Coastal Carolina investmentNC State’s fans want to win like the fans of those other 296 programs, and cite our obvious long drought. They look at the coach and think that is the cause. Maybe it is, but maybe he’s just a symptom, or maybe he reflects the whole lack of investment we make? I don’t know that answer, but that’s the AD’s job. I suspect she might be happier with outputs relative to inputs (ultimately the bottom line) than the casual, 3 week a summer fan who complains after we don’t win it all.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
