More analysis later…
Projected 2008-2009 NC State Basketball Roster
Senior Class
(1) Courtney Fells (Wing)
(2) Ben McCauley (F/C)
Junior Class
(3) Brandon Costner (F)
(4) Trevor Ferguson (G)
(5) Dennis Horner (F)
(6) Farnold Degand (PG)
Sophomore Class
(7) Javi Gonzalez (PG)
(8) Tracy Smith (4F)
Freshman Class
(9) Johnny Thomas (Wing)
(10) Julius Mays (PG/SG)
(11) CJ Williams (Wing)
HS Sr Commits
(12) Scott Wood (SG)
(13) Richard Howell (4F)
(1) Lorenzo Brown (SG, PG, Wing) (Courtney Fells Scholarship)
(2) Open - [Post player/center along the lines of Derrick Favors or potentially Keith DeWitt] (Ben McCauley’s Scholarship)
(*) Potential open for John Wall if needed
HS Junior Commitments
(3) CJ Leslie (F)
(4) Ryan Harrow (PG)
(5) Open
(6) Open
Is this the equivalent of recruiting a Top 50 player with addition by subtraction?
TheWolfpacker.com had the scoop on this one. He’s going to Georgia State.
Well, Sid can definitely count. He’s been recruiting like he had multiple scholarships in his pocket, so we knew something was up.
Best wishes to MJ at Georgia State.
Could anyone do a breakdown of where we are with available scholarships for 2009-2010?
You’ve got to feel for this kid - this will be his 3rd school.
Degand, Brown, Javy
Fergie, Mayes, Wood
Williams, Thomas
Costner, Smith, Horner
Howell
That’s 12, expect at least one more, probably 2.
Crazy, I just saw him at Mission Valley last week while I was eating at Ruckus and he was wearing NC State gear just like every other player you see out….
Hopefully everything will work out for him in the long run. Good luck, Marques!
Best of luck to him. It was clear very early that he was not an ACC player. You gotta punch your weight.
Best for both party’s. We will be better without him and he will be better at Georgia State.
Did someone threaten to break this kid’s legs if he was good at basketball? His college performance in no way reflects his offer list, or his recruiting ranking.
“Natural scorers mentality. Solid handle and point skills with deep range on the jumper.”
That’s not the player I saw last year.
I guess stars really are only for restaurants.
Your additional openings would come from some combination of the following possibilities (in order of likelihood):
1) Johnny Thomas - medical hardship
2) Brandon Costner - graduation/Europe
3) Trevor Ferguson - graduation
We have 11 scholarships - 2 seniors. That leaves 4 openings (with 3 taken). Look 1-2 others to leave - some based on who we sign believe or not.
Big men - Favors or Dewitt (one if not both will be at NCSU)
Wings - Johnson, Adams
PG - Wall
This is also good news for those who want to see more of Simon Harris - he has to be the front-runner to back up Fells at SF now.
packfanistan - Keep in mind he could have been really good and lost some confidence.
I’ll also tell you from personal experience in evaluating players that especially for big guards - the college game is entirely different banana. I saw Cliff Crawford play in high school, he played the point and was really a force on the court. His own teammates couldn’t always keep up or catch all of his passes, but I chalked that up to him playing w/ kids who were slower and not as talented. When he got to college it was obvious that he needed to work on his handle, his shot and being under control. By his senior year, he’d come a long way in these areas and was an effective guard for us.
I think probably what happened in Johnson’s case was that he was able to handle the ball adequately enough, shoot well enough and move well enough to be a force in high school. However, when he moved to the college ranks - he was just a step too slow and his handle wasn’t quite good enough for him to be an effective PG. His shot was questionable, so he wasn’t the best option at the 2 spot.
Johnson was put in a horrible situation last year. He wasn’t a PG and it wasn’t his fault that we needed him to play PG. It was almost impossible for him to succeed last year.
So, is he going to have to sit out another year? Can he get some kind of waiver?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that he choose Ga. State based upon his being able to play right away. Poor kid has moved around more than a set of luggage and I think that he had his ego over-inflated in the whole recruiting process. I get the impression that all he wants to do now is play ball and is looking for somewhere that he can start.
Off topic, but Toney Baker and Clem Johnson are out indefinitely due to injury.
http://www.wral.com/sports/story/3369692/
wufpax - who knows. A kid transfers when he is not happy w/ his current situation and he doesn’t see much room for optimism in the future.
It’s a necessary evil, but on a personal level, I really feel bad when any kid transfers from NC State because he probably hasn’t enjoyed his college experience as much as I did.
All the reports I’ve seen indicate that Favors is pretty unlikely to end up at state. Is there new info to indicate something different? Adams also appears to be leaning strongly away. Wall looks pretty unlikely. We don’t have any other two-guard wing prospects we are looking at besides adams do we? Any news on whether Johnny Thomas may be able to come back?
Where is Harris accounted for at?
SFN: I think he is accounted behind that preposition…
I hate that Marques didn’t work out. I’m sure his hopes for himself were just as high as all of ours were whenever Degand got hurt last year. I hope he gets back his confidence at Georgia State and becomes and NBA lottery pick.
With that having been said…it sure is nice to have an extra scholly to work with considering the momentum we appear to have in recruiting right now. It should be extremely interesting to see who we end up welcoming into the program. I will say, as good as Ryan Kelly is, and as bad as we may want him…he is highly unlikely. He will be going to school at Duke, Notre Dame, Davidson, or some other school with similar credentials in regards to education. People I’ve talked to within the ACC feel that we’ve got as good of a shot at Favors as anyone. Lets all cross our fingers and hope Sid and the crew can land a quality big man and with the Johnson scholarship sign the most talented prospect possible.
This is off subject…but what happened to Harrison Beck and Justin Burke? I’m seeing that they are out of the QB competition due to…surgeries?
Don’t forget to mention guys like Garrius Adams and Noel Johnson. There’s a great chance those two guys are there to fill the potential scholarship we had open for Wall.
As for the QB situation, I think Burke and Beck are out simply because with only a few weeks left, O’Brien wants to make sure the young guys get as many reps as possible to really distinguish a QB. If you really look at the situation, Evans is only getting snaps because he will be the backup and it’s a two horse race between Glennon and Wilson. O’Brien wants the young guys to get as many reps as they can to prepare them for the season.
Glennon clearly has the most upside but unless Wilson falters badly, O’Brien will save Glennon for the future because there’s no sense in throwing a star QB out with a developing O-Line.
as a finance guy, one thing i do is assign arbitrary percentages to proposals we think we will win…and i get paid for it…
Favors…..15%
Wall…….15%
Dewwitt….25% (conflicting reports on if we have offered yet)
Spurlock…5%
Kelly….—–> )0(
Hamilton…5%
Adams……20%
Anonymous..15%
These figures/illustrations are purely speculative and based none whatsoever on insider knowledge…so who can beat em’?
Harris was not scheduled to be on scholarship, I think. With MJ’s departure, I assume he will be now. He’s a senior, I believe.
Johnson can’t play right away, since Ga State is D1 in the CAA. In fact, since played at Tenn as a freshman, sat out year for the transfer then played as a sophomore here, he would have to sit out his junior year and have only his senior year left to play.
I’ll effort that further.
Agree 100% on the comparison between MJ and Crawford, Choppack1. I was hoping that Marques would hang around enough to become a player the team could rely on as a solid (but not spectacular) point guard who could play good defense and initiate the offensive set. I also saw lots of Crawford in MJ, and I hope that wherever he plays (GSU or what not) does him a good turn. Good luck, MJ!!
Sucks about Clem Johnson as he was probably going to see a lot of time on special teams returning kicks as well.
Baker worries me. Terrell Manning worries me.
Noah - I wasn’t counting on Manning after he blew out that knew last year. (Wasn’t he the one who had that problem?)
If that was him, it’s a lot to ask of a true freshman. Hard enough to contribute if you’re totally healthy as a true frosh.
Terrell Manning is positively going to redshirt this year. But his long term prognosis is what I’m worried about.
I’ve also heard bad things about Baker. I hope they are untrue.
“I’ve also heard bad things about Baker. I hope they are untrue.”
Are you going to elaborate?
They made it sound like it was just clearing out scar tissue in Baker’s repaired knee, is there some nerve damage as well? Good thing Underwood is turning out pretty well….
MJ wasn’t going to be a world beater, but I was kind of hoping he could be one of those Quentin Williams stories. A guy who is undertalented, but works hard to improve and turns out serviceable. I hope he succeeds at GSU.
^^^Speaking of torn knees, Jim Rome is talking about UF having 5 torn ACLs so far in camp. All I have to say is welcome to my world Florida, it sucks having snipers at camp doesnt it!!!!
packalum44, thanks for the prognostication. sorry to see that our chances at dewitt and adams are so poor. any further word on noel johnson anyone?
phillypacker, I wouldn’t put too much stock in those percentages…
“These figures/illustrations are purely speculative and based none whatsoever on insider knowledge…”
Back to topic, can someone elaborate on the Coster/Europe and Fergie/Graduation statement concerning scholarships.
Costner is on track to graduate this year so there’s speculation he’d take a paycheck rather than underwater basket weaving to keep playing.
Ferguson, I don’t know.
All threads are about football.
The Baker tidbit I heard this summer was that the knee injury was extremely bad, more severe than we initially thought, and that it would be the kind of thing that lingered.
When I asked about it, I was told not to worry. Just like I was told not to worry about Manning. But Manning is still walking around with a limp and Baker is getting his knee worked on and won’t be participating in fall camp.
So…I worry.
“Johnson was put in a horrible situation last year. He wasn’t a PG and it wasn’t his fault that we needed him to play PG. It was almost impossible for him to succeed last year.”
I’m pretty sure that Johnson was recruited as a PG and wanted to play PG for us. With Degand’s return, the improvement of Gonzalez over the season, and Mays coming in, he must have just seen the writing on the wall.
Clearly, he was too slow for the system that Lowe wants to run. He also wasn’t good enough at running sets to make up for his lack of speed and athleticism.
Speaking of catastrophic knee injuries, any work on Johnny Thomas?
I was really looking forward to seeing that kid play
Favors - better than 15%, in great shape
Wall - who knows
Dewitt - no offer yet
Adams - offered, in good shape
Noel Johnson - contacted us
Sherrill - bk-up option IMO
will sign 2 more IMO for a 5-man class
Good luck Marques and God bless … Thanks for working hard and trying your best
I really hope he can shine at Ga. State, regardless of what position he plays
The last thing I heard on Johnny Thomas was not good. “Might be a career ender” was the phrase…but that was a few months ago.
Sid talked a lot about how much he liked johnny t last Wen. night at the caravan meeting. The way he talked we will see him play. When I don’t know. That was a ? I wanted to ask but didn’t get a chance. Sid says we’re going to love him; that doesn’t sound career ending so maybe theres a good chance of recovery.
The thing about Johnny Thomas’ predicament is that it was a degenerative condition. Even though he had the one knee repaired, could the other be vulnerable to injury?
I have been waiting for this bad news concerning Baker. I see him just about everyday on campus, and he limps like crazy still.
I know I’m not supposed to set a link to Troyel Doyel, but it is in the blog file on ESPN if you are curious. Basically more of the same.
Dinich cited an article by Troyel, in which she mentioned that he asked Paul Johnson what happened with NC State at the kickoff meeting. He feels we hired the “wrong guy”, “the football version of Sendek”, “a guy we couldn’t embrace”. Well, I for one, don’t care if he is Attila the Hun if he wins games and graduates players. I never enjoyed hugging other men anyway…..
The problem with that analogy is that we have nowhere near the same expectations (or historical success) with our football program as we do for our hoops program. If O’brien has similar success to Sendek, it would be a drastic improvement considering our history. We kind of liked dry, serious Dick Sheridan, I guess we didn’t “know ourselves” too well back then. And while I would have loved to have Paul Johnson, sometimes “knowing yourself” means knowing you need a drastic change. Not just in offensive schemes, but in personality and approach.
Thank goodness! I can’t wait to use this scholarship on Favors (we can all wish can’t we?), Dewitt or Adams! Marques NEVER deserved the initials MJ (although it is much easier to type) and should never have those initials again. He is horrible and I’ve never been more nervous than when one of our guys got the ball. If you can’t get the ball past half court, and you look like a walrus shooting the three ball, you probably shoudln’t be a point guard. Javi is 50 trillion times better than him, he was a frosh trying to learn the ropes, and I wish that we would be easier on Javi. I think he was phenomenal last year, and will get even better, and be a top tier guard in the ACC. Our team just got better with the departure of Marques, and GA State just got worse.
I said, when he was hired, that if TOB was the football version of Herb Sendek, we’d name the stadium after him when he retired.
Um, while we might end up naming the stadium after TOB some day, I don’t really think FB season will ever be long enough in order to schedule that many cupcakes.
Best wishes to MJ.
I think we will take a 5 man class. If we get Favors, we will sign another touted recruit. It will be a killer class.
If we don’t get Favors, it will still be a very strong class.
http://www.gopack.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9200&ATCLID=1553943
It’s official.
We wish him the best in his future endeavors.
Hopefully this was his choice and not the waiver wire. Off-the-court, he represented State well.
Hopefully Georgia State gets to make the dance in the next 3 years so he can get some time.
Looks like I got wtfmoderated for posting a link. If you go to gopack dot com there’s a story confirming this report.
Best wishes to him. He was a classy guy off the court from the few times I saw him around.
Does anyone know if we’re actually even in the running for Favors? I have a feeling that we were not, which is why we offered the Adams kid out of Apex.
There’s no reason to personally trash the kid. He tried, he just doesn’t have what it takes to play SEC or ACC basketball. That doesn’t make him a bad person.
He was certainly miscast as a PG, but I think that was his choice. Seems like he didn’t really want to play SG, and may have been one of the reasons he chose State, since we had a need at PG.
Totally agree. Any level of basketball beyond high school is pretty intense. Along with playing out of position, it almost feels like he never gave himself a chance to settle in anywhere. It sometimes takes years to develop-especially at high caliber schools and the whole process of being uprooted or uprooting yourself isn’t a good way to grow.
I hope he does well.
I hope we did not force him out.
IMO he saw the writing on the wall.
We have two point guards from last year that played ahead of him. We have a combo guard that could play in front of him this year we have another combo coming in that could play in front of him next year and the next year a true PG.
He would not have seen the court much
Does anyone know if we’re actually even in the running for Favors?
YES we are. Frontrunner, don’t think so, but still in it for sure. Adams’ offer has nothing to do with Favors as we’ll probably take 5. Noel Johnson & Favors used to want to be a package deal. Johnson recently contacted us with interest.
good luck to MJ, and I hope he did come to this on his own and was not “helped” out.
Problem is . . . transfers are like a kid failing out of school when it comes to reporting academic success/graduation rates to the NCAA. While this young man deserve to be at a school where he’ll play, and its nice for the Pack to have a scholarship for someone who has a better chance of playing, the college still has to take a big knock. lets hope the rest of the team can pass classes and graduate!
Anyone know the rules about reducing scholarships? My institution lost close to 15 players in the spring due to academics and bad behavior (the qb was sitting in front of the dorm smoking a fag joint when the cops rolled up. he did not put it out.) Between football & basketball another 18 were booted over the summer. We lost scholarships this spring - I can’t wait to see what happens when the NCAA gets this report. Anyone know how the penalty chart goes? Pray for the death penalty for us guys - its our only hope of stopping the luxury boxes.
We have a decent shot with Favors. Not great, which should be expected. Our program stinks over the years; Winning it all 25 years ago seems to be even more remarkable by Joe public because we amount to nothing on the national scene.
To have the best big man in the country even mention you as a consideration is a big deal that we shouldn’t take for granted.
The only (SG) on our Roster this year now are Fells, Ferg & Mays. We will only lose Fells and add Brown in his place, so the Adams offer seems to be an emphasis on spreading the court and/or stocking up on coachable type character guys.
Ev..Beez
I have looked into this NCAA scoring system, and while it wasn’t a thorough examination, this is how I understood it to be:
Where an student athlete accept a full athletic scholly first is who the system of tracking academic progress falls on to. That means Tennessee would get treated as having a drop out but not us. It is meant to track a student starting as a freshman and once that time is passed they stop tracking him/her for this purpose.
JJ will hurt if he doesn’t stay enrolled in atleast some capacity (3 credit hrs. per?). Ask a Carolina fan about the loop-hole, they’ve had a firm grip on this for years.
happypackdad…u seem to have an inside scoop or are just really confident in your opinions…regardless-
who we looking at for 2010 to compliment Harrow and Leslie? rivals reports that Tobias Harris from Long Island is visiting us in the fall…scout reports an offer to tashawn mabry while melvin tabb is interested..
anyone else? should we expect harrow to rise to at least 4-star and with another signee or two, score a top 25 class?
offered: Mabry, Ross & Hood
interested in: Fair, Tabb, Knight, Coleman, others I’m sure.
I think it will be a top25 class at least.
This is AWESOME! Now we can get another player that may actually help the team instead of hurting us. Why do some of you think we are getting Wall? He is not coming to State, that has been apparent for months. I do not want him and neither should the rest of you. We have solid PGs coming in and we don’t need another one and doner!
Grrrrr YEAH! We don’t need them ‘best in the nation’ players!
They would only hurt us in the long run, what with winning a few extra games while they’re here. Not to mention there’s absolutely no benefit in having our four year players practice against such high level talent. >:[
pakfanistan-Yeah, I don’t understand all the worry over this. How is this different from a player really coming into their own in their third or fourth year than say, an “NBA ready” player stepping in and being great in the first year and then stepping out. Over all, we don’t see true production from some of these recruits until years down the line. But like you said, if our players are practicing against elite-albeit, ephemeral-players, then so be it. I’ll grant people that we may have slightly less team chemistry with one and doners but that wouldn’t always be the case.
I say, let’s go full force after these five star players and hell, maybe one of them will step in a win us a National Championship! Also, I have yet to read anything truly wrong with John Wall as all info seems rumor and internet mill based. Is there anyone who can actually point to something factual?
Are you suggesting the Wall/Clifton relationship is fictional?
I’m suggesting that John Wall is a young impressionable kid who could be influenced by a lot of things. Dwon Clifton was the former head coach of D-One Sports for the AAU League. As a coach, you are in a position of trust and generally, kids are going to look up to you and trust that what you are saying is the right thing. Brian Clifton is a sports agent-perhaps less so in a position of trust but to a youngster, probably someone that age would look up to as well. I am not saying that these two individuals are not unethical, manipulative, low life bastards-but I do not think that by association, this puts John Wall on that same level. If that’s so, then every kid on that team is a sleaze ball and shouldn’t even bother playing in college; or if they choose to, at least play for a one that is sleazy.
This relationship is not the same as every kid on that team.
thanks VTpackfan - someone make sure JJ gets enrolled this fall!!
Dr. Badger, do you have an on-line class he can take?
elite teams recruit several 4-star and 5-star players each year. not all of them turn out to be one and doners…when you get so many, chances are a few of them will stick around for several years (see unc and duke) ellington and lawson were the #1SG and #1PG respectively in the same class…so teams shouldn’t recruit them??? when state gets one elite, we expect the moon by some fans which is naive and foolish. other schools are getting 2 or 3 a year and sure some leave (marvin williams, branden wright) but lots stick around…point is, if we are to become elite, we must consistently land several 4 and 5 star players each and every year and be able to absorb the one-and-done player every couple of years. hell, if we were good enough jj would have been coming off the bench last year!
pipedream for a second but if we land wall and favors in 09, those guys are good enough to “contend” for titles…not saying we win, but just saying we contend…that is what elite teams do…they contend each and every year…duke and unc have been contenders almost every year they are on the court…even so, they only win it all every so often…even with an elite team, you are playing against the field and things have to go perfectly for a team to win it all…schools need talent and lots of it…
now, if the dissenting fans are talking about recruiting “strategy”, then i would be more open to criticism of spending our resources on the walls and favors of the world. strategically, some schools might be better off building a good team/reputation/brand with solid 3-4 year players (see FL, TN, Memphis) and once they have built their “brand” then they can have more weight with young recruits and go after the elites…that is what we have seen with the above schools. they didn’t land the huge 5 stars consistently until recently, after they got some positive exposure from winning…make sense? good.
however, a great recruiter with a RBC Center backing him up is going to do a bit of both…get elite and get solid 3-4 years and…good luck Lowe and happy recruiting!
p.s. apologies for all the duke/unc references
EverettBeez- Even if I had an online class, I don’t think taking it from University of Florida would help him out.
Roy Williams has had carnal relations with satan…that’s why they keep their five-star guys.
LOL, some of you are so naive. I’m not saying don’t recruit 4 and 5 star players, I’m saying recruit high character 4 and 5 star players. John Wall is not a high character guy, he has alot of shady stuff going on around him and I do not want him bringing that to State. He is by far the most NBA ready player in the class. Some of you need to do a little research prior to making comments on the board. John Wall does not want to come to State, so why do you want someone who doesn’t want you? Grrrrr YEAH! Bringing in a player like Wall may make us win 20 games and make the tourney, then he leaves and we return to a NIT team. He won’t continue his education and this will damage the program! I’m all for Favors or another elite player, NOT WALL! Who ever was talking about Toney Baker, I talked with him the other day and he said the surgery was nothing and he should be ready soon.
Those comments about John Wall and his relationship with the Cliftons shows one thing … you have no idea what you are talking about. The information is fairly well publicized … why not try reading it? John Wall has proven in his life that he is a high character person, who has overcome some difficult situations in his life with the help of several people including the Cliftons and the folks at Word of God. But of course, I’m sure you speak from personal knowledge of the young man and the situation. Right! I know this is an opinion board, but character assassination shouldn’t be done.