Inside Carolina is reporting that Ty Lawson, Wayne Ellington and Danny Green will all return to Chapel Hill for the 2008-2009 college basketball season, virtually guaranteeing that the Tarheels will hold the #1 preseason ranking as the heavy favorite to win the 2009 National Championship.
Lawson, Ellington and Green had become the targets of significant criticism brought about by UNC-CH fans, students and internet community members. The situation between Tarheel faithful and the players got so nasty that CBS Sportsline actually elevated the fans’ criticisms in a national article discussing the situation and criticizing the Tarheel faithful.
That article was written three weeks ago and we are yet to have seen or heard a single mention of it from UNC-CH Athletics Director, Dick Baddour or anyone else of note within the Carolina Athletics Department. Such behavior and media strategy couldn’t be any more opposite than the obsession and criticism that NC State’s administrators (Fowler, Purcell and Oblinger) have for the ubiquitous “internet” and all of the “bad fans” who evidently reside on the internet.
Dick Baddour understands the simplest of human common sense that NC State’s ‘leadership’ fails to grasp - if you don’t acknowledge this stuff then you don’t elevate it into the public consciousness and therefore you don’t validate the idiots who behave this way. There are tons of ‘crazies’ on the internet; but, just because someone happens to live in the year 2008 and uses the internet does not inherently make them crazy.
Lee Fowler has proven on multiple occassions that he would have immediately raced into public forums to draw even more attention to this type of topic; he most likely would have issued press releases and brought even more negative attention to NC State if the same situation would have happened in Raleigh as happened with Lawson, Ellington and Green. (Remember the reaction to the boos during the Clemson game in Carter-Finley a couple of years ago?)
But…Dick Baddour and the folks in the Carolina camp have a different way of dealing with adversity.
As evidenced by Baddour’s silence on the matter, Baddour didn’t go running to CBS to make a big deal about the article and only exacerbate the problem by bringing more attention to things.
* Baddour & the Carolina camp didn’t go whine and complain off the record to other media members about the crazy UNC fans and therefore he didn’t serve to taint the view of Carolina fans in the minds of others.
* Baddour & the Carolina camp didn’t go calling up newspaper reporters telling them that they were wrong with their stories like Fowler did with Herb Sendek in 2001.
* Baddour & the Carolina camp didn’t run around making a big deal of the story like Lee Fowler did when he called Mark May at ESPN and also dialed-into nationally broadcast football games two years ago to tell the world that Chuck Amato was not on the hot seat (only a couple of months before the Board of Trustees forced Amato out against the wishes of Fowler).
* Baddour & the Carolina camp didn’t fabricate stories about the risk of safety of the players and their families because of the basketball obsessed fans that reside in Carolina’s fanbase like Lee Fowler did in the Richmond newspaper in 2006.
* Baddour & the Carolina camp hasn’t waster their energy and created bad relations with anyone who lives in the real world in 2008 by publicly stating that “fan message boards on the internet” are the biggest challenge facing UNC-CH athletics like Lee Fowler stated in 2006. (Please tell me that you do not wonder why our Athletics Department is amongst the worst in the conference when our leadership is so disassociated with reality that they can’t find bigger challenges to conquer than fan message boards on the internet).
But…what does UNC-CH know about running an Athletics Department?! If those bozos in Chapel Hill who have built one of the top ten all-sports programs in the country had any clue how to run an Athletics Department wouldn’t they be looking to Lee Fowler to provide them guidance on how to react to this kind of stuff? If those bozos really knew what they were doing they would have made a big stink out of all of this and turned their players even more against their fans, thereby guaranteeing such an uncomfortable situation that their existing players would not want to return to school and future recruits would have much less interest in becoming a part of their program.
If only Dick Baddour knew how to deal with issues like Lee Fowler!
In related news, NC State’s JJ Hickson has surprised no one and has guaranteed that he will not be returning to school by signing with agent, Andy Miller of ASM Sports.
N.C. State’s J.J. Hickson said today he will sign a contract with sports agent Andy Miller of ASM Sports, who represents the Boston Celtics’ Kevin Garnett, among others.
Hickson, a 6-foot-9 forward, officially announced Sunday that he had hired an agent and would remain in the draft. That came more than a week after he told reporters in Phoenix that his intentions were to stay in the draft and not return for his sophomore season at State.
Hickson said he made the final decision within the past week
Parting shot — I just received an email from a friend of mine who is a lifelong Carolina fan that read as follows:
Just for the record, if what they are reporting is true, that Green, Ellington, and Lawson are returning to UNC, if they don’t win it all next year, I might consider quiet watching UNC basketball forever. It is a bold statement, but w/ a lineup like that and the freshmen that are coming in, it would be embarrassing if they lose a single game.
What can I say about all of you unrealistic, over-demanding, impatient Wolfpack fans.
Update
Post of the Day from Daniel33 on Pack Pride:
Unless UNC makes a few offseason upgrades to the Smith Center, I don’t think they can go all the way. Talented players are nice, but everyone knows to be really successful, you have to have top-notch facilities. UNC needs a few more luxury boxes to really compete on a high level.
Sincerely,
Lee Fowler
They are going to be scary good.
We will be ou typical sucky selves.
Sigh
In 1984 and 1987, they were clearly the best team in the country. They were about eight deep in NBA talent and about 12 deep in just ACC talent.
That said, I don’t care if they go pro or not. Whenever they do leave, they’ll just bring in five other guys who are just as good. They will be a top-five team until Roy Williams leaves.
“Fan criticisms on the internet message boards are the only reason Lawson, Green, and Ellington are staying in the draft … Ohh, wait - huh? - They’re STAYING!?”
\If Lee Fowler was the Hole AD
Also, I’m not sold on the Holes “not losing a game” or being “prohibitive favorites” for the national title if indeed all three are coming back … sure, they’ll (the Holes) have a very good opportunity, but have they done it yet? Nope. We’ll see what happens …
Good God! Could a less deserving fan base ever get so lucky? So, the fans rip the players…and the players come back for another season! Heck, we talk about a player being a key recruit and they running a screaming to mommy about not wanting all that pressure and sign elsewhere.
*sigh*
^ As Clint Eastwood said to Gene Hackman in Unforgiven, “Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it.”
But I know what you mean. It’s almost enough to make one doubt the existence of a just and merciful God.
mock draft board I am looking at has JJ and Tywon around the same spot, late twenties. I wonder if we had a star complementary recruit coming in this decision would be harder. Or maybe he just doesn’t want to be Roy Hibbert.
Don’t be so quick to think everything is rosy in the hole. You think we had chemistry problems this past year? Ol Roy has twice the problems Dean Smith had in 93 when he actually had more talent than the team that won the NC in 92.
I specifically remember the choke of the 87 team that Noah mentions. Of course, having problems with talent is much more fun than the flip side of the coin. As we unfortunately know.
I’m trying to remember what happened to that 1987 team. In 1984, Kenny Smith broke his wrist against LSU and wasn’t really the same after that.
In 1987, who’d they lose to? Syracuse?
In 1984, they had:
Perkins, D’oh, Daugherty, Smith and Jordan in their starting lineup. They had buzz Peterson and Steve Hale and Warren Martin and Joe Wolf and Dave Popson and Curtis Hunter coming off the bench.
The 1987 team had:
Smith, Lebo, JR Reid, Wolf and Popson in their starting five. They had Scott Williams and Ranzino Smith and Kevin madden and Rick Fox (?)…can’t remember their bench.
Phenomenal talent.
There is one good thing about Ty Lawson coming back. This should give our students and Duke’s plenty of time to come up with excellent cheers and signs related to Lawson’s arrest for drunk driving, driving with his license revoked, etc.
77 team choked big time to Marquette.
could it be possible that playing
for the baby blue beats playing
for the Timberwolves? it’s only
money, and they would have spent
it on women. why spend when they’re
free @ UNC?
Noah, unless my memory is REALLY going didn’t they choke against Michigan in 87? Wasn’t that the year MI went on to win the NC and the coach left?
SFN: That was 1989
What about Hickson?
I think he’s gone, but haven’t seen word either way.
Do you suppose that Dick Baddour will write a letter to the press if some Hole fans boo these players when they are introduced at the first game, or if any coach is booed for poor performance!
Well, obviously, the players read the criticism, realized the fans were right, and corrected the error of their ways by withdrawing from the draft.
Astral, it’s been official for a couple of days. JJ is a gonner.
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?title=hickson_signs_with_andy_miller&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
” … Michigan in 87? Wasn’t that the year MI went on to win the NC and the coach left?”
Michigan beat Seton Hall for the championship in ‘89 after Bill Freider left for ASU, of all places … then comes the Steve Fischer ‘Fab Five’ nonsense …
Holes did indeed lose to Boeheim’s Orangemen, er, Orange in a regional final in ‘87 … and then Keith Smart sends Boeheim into a deep, dark depression the next Monday night …
I <3 NCAA Tournament
Oh well, best of luck to JJ, and thanks for coming here. Just wish you could have stayed longer, but I understand.
Carolina wins again. Let me get this straight, their top team from last year returns everyone, including everybody’s all american in Hanbrough who didn’t even dip his foot in the NBA water and our sorry asses lose our best player without batting an eye. Between the bozos running the admin. and our accursed fortune, it’s a wonder if we’ll win any championship of any substance in my lifetime.
The Tarholes are going to have the top 5 players in the 2009 draft!
And when they leave, they’ll just bring in five more future NBA hall of famers.
Fortunately luck, chemistry, timing, etc have a lot to do with it or UNC would win the NC 3 out of 5 years. But their talent is so much better than ours will be for as far as I can see that it will basically be men against boys I’m afraid. I guess that is why i don’t hate Duke as badly as most do on this blog. At least they have a chance to compete regularly with the Holes rather than an occasional game every 5 years or so.
MORE FOOTBALL. Basketball news is just too depressing.
Once again two teams suck all the air out of the room in the ACC leaving it as a top tier league of two teams and other tiers of lesser teams.
Sad to say but the old saying that “All boats rise with the tide” isn’t holding true for some reason in the ACC. And that is bad for the Conference as a whole. No longer is the ACC viewed as the strongest conference — more just a conference with 2 strong teams.
One might expect that other good players would jump at the chance to come play against the prima donnas at these 2 schools and better their stock on NBA draft day. But no — there is enough air time for any team on TV for a kid to be a star at other non-ACC schools.
The lack of talent to challenge these two teams probably will hurt them in post season play. I can only hope that some of the other coaches in the ACC can get it together to pull in some of the remaining talent to make the ACC competitive again. I think Wake Forest may be moving in that direction but have doubts on the rest.
I heard Tom Crean interviewed the other day. He was talking about how he wanted guys w/ “courage”. He wanted his players to be courageous. I liked that - and it’s that same attitude that will be necessary here in Raleigh.
Bo, no question the ACC has taken a severe hit the past couple of years. UNC gets these three studs back plus Hansbrough, has a solid class coming in, and has the top ranked class next year. It’s UNC’s league, at least the next couple of years. They just keep reloading and nobody is stepping up to the challenge. Wake may put up a good fight, but it’s going to take a couple of years. Clemson should be strong. Duke is going to struggle. Who wants to step up?
Who cares about those Heels? They had to stay or at best Ty would be a late 1st rounder and the other two would go to Europe or the NBDL and probably never stick in the NBA even if they got there.
Personally I’m just glad JJ is gone- overrated and terrible to watch against the good competition. I don’t think 5 years from now he’ll even be a blip in my memory.
If there was ever a great example of subtraction by addition on the basketball court, than JJ Hickson- I’d love to see it. Basketball is not a one-man show and JJ was never able to blend into this team. Not sure who to blame- the coaches for giving a freshman JJ goldenchild status- or the team never being able to mesh with himin the lineup. It was as if when JJ arrived the entire gameplan was thrown out the window and it was 1 vs 5 with everything else secondary. Hopefully this was a lesson learned by Lowe and staff going forward on the college level. Ironically we have pretty much the same team from 2 years ago which made the run to the ACC Tourney title game- with the addition of a few athletes to contribute. Hoping we get back on the path.
Perhaps ole Huckleberry has simply promised the trio he’d make sure they all received nice “graduation” presents ala Kansas. Maybe they just received them a bit early………
At the end of the day, UNC is still only 1 team out of 12. We will only play them twice in the regular season. There is still ample room for other teams to step and be very, very good. Somebody will still fill ACC slots 2-5.
Come March, it’s actually an advantage to be from the ACC, in that you are assured to be seeded far away from UNC in the NCAAT bracket.
And as dominant as the Holes will be, they won’t go unbeaten. They might not even win the ACC (1987, anyone?).
That said, I am resigned to the fact that UNC will win the ACCT about 70% of the time, and win anywhere from 3-5 additional NCAA titles, as long as Roy Williams remains their coach.
Yep. Don’t worry about who goes and who stays. They’re ALWAYS going to have a great team. They will ALWAYS get great recruits and they will ALWAYS be in the top-10 as long he’s there.
But I’m younger than he is and someday he’ll be dead.
Thats a ridiculous statement that carolina will not win the acc this year. I know the season has yet to begin, but looking at the acc from top to bottom how is unc not the best team? Since the hire of roy unc has owned this conference. With the return of these three, and three very solid freshmen, this year will be no different.
^Yea, I agree. I don’t see how anyone cannot think they won’t dominate the conference again. Essentially the same team as last year.
As for us, no doubt we were a better “team” without Hickson. But I don’t think we are going to have any luck in the post with him gone. Costner is just way too soft. Ben may be our only saving grace.
And Tracy!
If Costner and Ben walk out looking like they spent the offseason in the weight room nonstop that will tell me all I need to know. If they come out like the dough boys they were last year, it’s gonna be another long year. Call me a crazy optimist, but there’s more team potential this year than last.
is it possible we are nearing a commitment from Lo Brown? he spent alot of time in Raleigh last month and we are the only school here recruiting him.
i also hear there is a 2010 PG who was at one of the raleigh tournies last month that said he would have commited right then if he could have. i believe he is from the same HS in Marietta that JJ came from.
99% a lock for Brown.
^^ probably thinking of Ryan Harrow
“If Costner and Ben walk out looking like they spent the offseason in the weight room nonstop that will tell me all I need to know. ”
He did have the nickname the Big Lazy.
HPD,
Concur about Brown, but I think you’ve got the wrong name for the 2010 PG from Wheeler.
2010 PG from Wheeler is Phil Taylor.
The 2010 PG that said he wanted to commit right then was Harrow. We are recruiting other ‘10 PGs including Taylor.
Thanks for keeping me in-line. I had not heard about Harrow.
You must win the ACCT in order to be ACC champs. It only takes ONE upset to stop that train. The 1987 UNC team was a monster. 6th seeded NC State beat them in the final.
Now, I will admit that it would be lunacy to say the Holes might not win the REGULAR SEASON and be seeded #1. But that’s not, in fact, what I actually said.
One thing about that 1987 State team…it DID have future NBAers Chucky Brown, Charles Shackleford and Vinnie Del Negro in the starting lineup. It also had future NBAer Brian Howard on the bench and former high school all-americans Andy Kennedy and Walker Lambiotte on the bench as well (though they didn’t play). And now that I think of it, wasn’t Mike Giomi a big-time recruit for Indiana?
Had Chris Corchiani arrived a year earlier or had we not tried the disastrous Kenny Drummond experiment, that team would have been a top-10 or top-15 squad.
It just took us the entire season to get to the point where we could beat Dook and UNC in the ACC tourney (we got lucky that Wake knocked out two-seeded Clemson and we were lucky to beat Wake…).
yeah, but in 1987 didnt we have a few future NBA players as well?
If Costner and McCauley miraculously return to form this season after basically “no showing” last year, I am not sure whether to be happy that we will be more comptetive or disgusted that they tanked last year because of issues with Hickson’s playing time. Good luck, J. J., you deserved better from your teammates, your captain and your coach.
JJ could have helped his teammates by learning how to pass out of double teams.
no prob 89, I think we’re on 4 PGs in ‘10 so it’s tough to keep them all straight.
“But I’m younger than he (R. Williams) is and someday he’ll be dead … ”
Can’t beat that Wolfpack optimism!
Having great players and good coaches is something that unc has done for as long as I can remember anyway. But to obtain those assets to begin with, and then have the ability to maintain them for decade upon decade, is something that takes much leverage in the media.
That ability is the flagship’s most valuable asset.
This isn’t just bad news for us and the rest of the ACC — you can count on this being one of the most dominant teams you’ve ever seen (think UNLV 1991) — but this is also bad news for Roy Williams because he’ll have to slap Ty on the wrist for his transgression…right?
There I go again, filled with naivete.
I asked some UNC fans today when the charges against Lawson would get dropped.
^^LRM, don’t worry. They’re going to bring Phil Ford back to talk to Ty about the dangers of getting caught. I mean, the dangers of drinking and driving.
How many scholarship players UNC has? They are bringing in five next year and lost only one?
“JJ could have helped his teammates by learning how to pass out of double teams.”
That drove me crazy and was the reason I’d hoped he’d return for his sake- he isn’t big enough for his skill set in the NBA, and if he could learn to pass that would help him and would have helped the Pack SOOOO much. Unless he grows at least an inch, preferably two, he’s gonna have a rough time in the big leagues if he sticks at all.
JJ HIckson the person, as well as JJ Hickson’s game, are two things that are still in the developmental stages. Whether he is overwhelmed and becomes just another blip on the NBA’s radar screen is something we’ll all find out shortly. No sweat off of the NBA’s backs either way.
I’m not even talking as a NC State fan here, but Hickson would have had to wait his turn last season if he had played college ball elsewhere, say at somewhere like for our close neighbors in powder blue. He may have what it takes, but either way, he rushed it.
Oh no, another year of the Danny Green dance! For that reason alone I had hoped he was gone.