Thanks to all of you who have posted 30 updates and comments regarding Fowler’s “interview” this morning. We’ll continue to have more commentary as time goes by.
11:15 Update
Here’s a link to the audio of the interview:
Lee Fowler Takes Your Calls (850 The Buzz’s Blog)
My apologies if I wasn’t the smoothest reader on the air, but I had an office visitor come in past a closed door and distract me while I was reading Sw0rdf1sh’s quote.
–RAWFS
9:50am UPDATE:
Before today’s relative waste of time on 850 we all had questions that we would like to see Fowler REALLY answer and not side-stepp. Since he just opened the door to more questions/follow-up, we thought that it would be a good time to ask you to log whatever questions you would ask in the comments section of this entry. Since LF gives so many “Q&As” to the press then you know that isn’t finished talking. Who knows…the next interviewer may read SFN and pick up on some questions?
It is really fascinating, but you should go check this entry from March of 2005 when we did a very similar exercise. Even though some of those questions were Herb Sendek related, a lot of them would continue to ring true today.
Here are a few to get the ball rolling:
(1) In your interview with GoPack that was published on April 13th you indicated that in no uncertain terms that there would be changes coming within NC State’s Basketball staff.
In this off-season, there will be some changes made within the basketball office. Sidney is going back to square one, looking at what each member of the staff does to make certain it is the most efficient and effective way of getting things done. He is reviewing all facets of the basketball operation.
In Sidney Lowe’s subsequent interview with the News & Observer that was published on April 29th, Coach Lowe leaves no ambiguity around the issue and 100% contradicts you when answering a similar question:
N&O: Will the staff stay intact?
Lowe: Yes.
N&O: Will the support staff stay intact?
Lowe: Yes.
Since you consistently discuss Coach Lowe’s control of the team last year in public and share your thoughts on what happened during our collapse - Which one of you is right? You say there will be staff changes. He says there will not be. Is he defying you by not making changes?
…alright gang….your turn!
They are prepping this interview by playing clips of Dave Glenn running down the Pack.
He is in the studio.
Apparently Lee has been trying to set this up for a while. Color me shocked.
AG “Give me a State of the State”
LF “Golf course coming. Game gainst FSU. Should get into the NCAA.”
AG” What has COach Lowe been doing”
LF “REfocusing. Three seniors coming back. Guys are embarrassed by the play last year. Sid is very competitive. Refocussing. Play wiht emotion and desire. Players had other things on their mind.”
AG “Sidney called out Gavin at the ned of the year. And there were times whent eh frustration go tot him.”
LF “Sid lost the players and could nto get them back. He was meeting with them individually but could nto get them back”
David “We missed you athe caravan in Smithfield. Son is at baseball camp and they are wonderful. What can the fans do for to make NCSU successful. What do the coaches say they need for the programs to be better?”
LF “No one is more frustrated than Sid. Don’t be negative about your own team. No one wants to win mroe than I do. It’s my livelihood.”
I am missing alot as I am a bad typist.
Go Alpha!!!!
There was joking about the internet.
Charles (RAWS) -he is reading the blog post about NCSU
LF “I do not read blogs. If people are getting on there must be a need.”
C “Two million visitors to Satefansnation”
AG “there are some people that you do not want on the blogs”
C “I would agree and I do a good job of being fair and not being too negative. I am going to read three quotes from area reports.” He is reading quotes about the sports information director. “If this is group is so hard to work with what are you going to do”
LF “I do not know if your quotes are real. We are an open department and I want to hear if someone has a problem with us. They have my cell phone so they can contact me directly.” He of course did nto address antying.
JO “fans feel the media is negative to the NCSU. DO you agree with that”
LF “That story (about the athelte dorm) had no content and the timing was bad. We try to be positive with the press and give them what they need. We want them to be positive. They have concerns about blogs. About people that do not put their names down. Opinions are great but you want it to be factual”.
Lee turned the question into a way to take a dig at blogs.
RAWS - you did a good job asking questions but I feel he sidestepped what you asked. LF was again dismissive of the internet. His “must be a need for them” and “not putting their names” along with his attitude made clear his thoughts on blogs and forums.
I have a “need”. A need to succeed!
They are really pounding the Pack with their ads. They just brought back the whole Herb crap. I am reminded why I bought my XM radio.
Much of the internet may not have real names, but it certainly isn’t anonymous.
I’ve been using this handle since the days of WolfChat and Rancho De Nada. Sure, it isn’t my “real name”, but so what? It’s not like anyone would have trouble linking it to my real self and I behave accordingly (most of the time) >:)
Good morning all.
“I do a good job of being fair.”
(I honestly feel I do, Lee; read the @#$#@ing site and see for yourself.)
“I am going to read three quotes from area reports.
‘most difficult group to work with in the ACC’ - TV sports anchor
‘it’s like they intentionally make my job harder to do’
’she is simply uncooperative.’ ”
LF “I do not know if your quotes are real. We are an open department and I want to hear if someone has a problem with us.”
It’s REALLY NICE to be called a liar. Or at least have it inferred. I am sorry Mr. Fowler, but if you do not think that Annabelle Myers is more or less disliked (and in some cases despised) by the area media, then you are not doing your job.
Bottom line here is this: when someone has a legitimate beef (and this is a legitimate beef, ask any of the writers here or any reporter you meet) they are dismissed and not taken seriously. In my case, he tried (lamely IMO) to infer that I was doing something less than honorable and lying through my teeth. People are NOT going to to go to him because the SID will extract her revenge. Hell, I better change my logo before I get a takedown notice.
AG “OJ Mayo fiasco. Sleezy people are hanging around .Is tehre anything we can do from a college standpoint?”
LF “The rules are to the NBA’s advantage. Go to two years required before drafting.”
Me - He did not answer the question
JO “you mentioned the baseball system of drafting. Is there a movement to go to this?”
LF “It has to come from the NBA. We cannot control it”
What a tool! Is his job sidestepping relavent questions and issues about Wolfpack sports or building a strong athletics department! If the former, he’s doing a great job; if the latter, what a failure. (BTW if Foulup is listening, I’m a ‘68 NCSU graduate and former WPC member - former due to him! And I post here mainly because SIGNED letters/emails to anyone at NCSU go ignored as far as I can tell!)
“Much of the internet may not have real names, but it certainly isn’t anonymous.”
Lee, since he told us all about doing morning drive radio for years, should understand better than anyone that people in radio have on-air names that are not their real ones, and that there is a long and storied history of pseudonyms in writing, including print journalism.
Just how dumb does he think we are????
Discussion on the One and Done rule and NBA. LF hopes and prays that this is a good step.
Talking about the way baseball has the rule and you can’t leave until your junior year. He doesn’t really say if he is a fan of that
LF talks shoe companies and how they are coming together with the NBA to talk about the issues and how it isn’t good for the game of basketball. Talk about the new 8th grader getting a scholarship and when his coach called time out, the kid looked at his AAU coach instead.
Getting ready for phone calls. This could be good.
First caller:
Been around for a while since the V years, never wavered, but there have been a couple of things that have shakened.
The LTR, it became extremely difficult for a family of 4 to afford to go to a game. Caller travels a lot and wanted internet games, and having to pay to hear the game….along with LTR rips his heart out. Very costly for a family of 4.
Caller feels that it is getting costly.
LF: Thinks LTR happened at 20 or 30 years ago at UNC and they looked at that. He says we do have tickets that you don’t have to have LTR’s for in both football and basketball….but if you want to keep your same seats…you need an LTR.
Buzz: Isn’t the answer this is the cost of doing business?
LF: Charter increases have a 40% increase for Wolfpack Travel. He feels we are in the middle of the league with our costs though. Bigger stadiums are charging more, and we are conscious of our Wolfpack Fans.
Next caller coming up, time for some coffee.
Joe “I appreciate you taking the time. PLease do it more” WTF?
“I am a die hard Woflpack fan. But there are some things that have shaken my faith. LTR have made it hard for families to afford the games. Having to pay to hear the games on the internet. Why is it so expensive? Why do I ahev to pay for internet streaming”
LF “I think that happened when UNC built their building. We do have tickets that are not LTR. To keep your location you have to have LTRs. You should be able to get tickets.”
AG “Isn’t this the cost of doing business?”
LF “Well it is. It is unfortunate. 42 percent increase in football travel. We are not in the top 20 of what we charge.”
Me - big friggin shocker given how crappy we have performed.
“Bottom line here is this: when someone has a legitimate beef (and this is a legitimate beef, ask any of the writers here or any reporter you meet) they are dismissed and not taken seriously. ”
So his answer is someone should bring it to his attention. That is exactly what you did. You brought it to his attention and he completely blew you off and insulted you to boot. Why would anyone bring something to his attention when he is going to ignore it.
What a putz.
This is about what I suspected. LF pontificating on anything except what people want to hear. He ignroes pointed questions and rambles like a dodgerly old man instead of answering questions.
Talking about 5 hour limit on tailgating… He said no plans to do anything more to address it. Says that there is a cost associated (I assume in terms of providing for security, traffic control, and parking ushers) for every hour open. Goes on that vast majority of people have been satisfied with the 5 hour cap.
But….Sid only lost 4 more games than he did the year before…Duh, New Orleans, East Carolina…shall we mention the losses that shouldn’t have been, Lee??? Doesn’t register to him at all that this past year, they should have improved.
JO “Tailgating. Is there any plan to get rid of the 5 hour rule”
LF “THe chancellor feels that five horus is plenty of time”
JO “What does the cerfew accomplish”
LF “It is expensive. I know people think I wake up and try to make the NCSU fans mad. We did a study and very few cars would come more than 5 hours early. ”
Joe “Congrats on the TOB hire. Why woudl you hire a coach wiht no experience. Do you regret not speaking out about Sendek and the abuse he took. He was the best
LF “I took alot of abuse for that. Herb was and is a close freind of mine. I have to make a decision that I think is best. Some people will disagree. Our fans felt like it was time for a change. Lowe is one of our guys and he knows basketball. I have confidence in him and his staff.”
AG “Do you think Lowe will have a learning curve becauseof college?”
LF “No question. I tlaked wiht him about this and he hired a college staff. Dealign with parents is something he has not had to do. Sidney is unbelievalbe about hsi knowlede of basketball”
I do not think I have ever heard an hour with so much talking in which nothing was said.
The last caller obviously was a “HWSNBN” fan. “Best basketball coach at State in the past 30 years who did not ‘bend the rules)!
Were the calls screened beforehand? I’m surprised there wasn’t a single question about why we no longer are competetive.
Rick, you got that right! Lot’s of talking, but no answers, no vision, no stated goals, just the same “trust me” line.
It was refreshing to be reminded that Lee knows basketball and now Sid also knows basketball. I guess everything will be ok, then.
I thought it was a good interview. He answered the questions pretty well IMO. Good ot hear about NC State sports in this dull time of year.
SFN: Thanks for stopping by, Lee. I thought that you said that you don’t read the blogs?
I swear what a total bunch of bull that was. The guy completely lacks vision and a plan. That should be obvious to anyone listening. I am asking myself what he hoped to accomplish because it was obvious that he had no theme or agenda driving any of his comments. Pathetic.
I can do his job.
Period.
Fowler showed what an idiot he is by agreeing to be on. There was no way anything good was going to come from that.
It sounds like it turned into an opportunity for him to show his dislike of NC State fans.
Didn’t hear the interview, but did he really say this?
LF “They have concerns about blogs. About people that do not put their names down. Opinions are great but you want it to be factual”.
If you are lurking, here’s a quick list off the top of my head of people who published under fake names..
Alexander Hamilton - see $10 bill.
Benjamin Franklin - see $100 bill.
James Madison - read bill of rights.
Well, all I can say is that at least he was kind enough to show up, even if he didn’t answer a whole lot of things directly.
Apparently, I might be a figment of someone’s imagination because I don’t use my real name, but the good news is I have a lot of company. Maybe that $700 I just sent in for my season tickets (and comfy padded seating) wasn’t real either?
All I can say is I’m glad he’s not going to be at the Wilmington Wolfpack Caravan next week or seeing me as a living breathing person might freak Lee right out.
If he actually thought he was going to accomplish something with answers like that, then I am more worried about our programs now then ever.
The funny thing is how he takes swipes at blogs, yet both 850 and the N&O have very prominent blogs.
Just as a reference about costs, Tennessee season football tickets are only $20 more than NC State season ticket prices. Talk about a better ROI. Also, parking passes are cheaper at Tennessee than NC State and both teams have 7 home games this year.
I can’t possibly fathom what sort of blackmail material ABM must have to keep her job. It’s not JUST that she’s clueless, she’s deliberately, willfully bad for NCSU.
Imagine you got hired as the SID for Carolina and someone told you that no matter what you did, you wouldn’t be fired. Imagine WHAT you could do and the extent of the damage you could inflict.
That’s our SID.
Let’s see/hear some questions from you guys. Especially follow-up ones that he created by his own accord today.
Didn’t hear the interview, but did he really say this?
LF “They have concerns about blogs. About people that do not put their names down. Opinions are great but you want it to be factual”.
It is not word for word but yes he did say that
“Let’s see/hear some questions from you guys. Especially follow-up ones that he created by his own accord today.”
He did not really say anything so it is impossible to formulate questions based on that interview.
There are still so many unasnwered questions, like the two RAWFS asked.
This interview basically solidified the fact that LF does not listen to anyone except Oblinger (whom he threw under the bus on the tailgating question) and a few big dogs.
I’ve got to go out for a while, but will formulate a list of questions later to post..Not that they aren’t any different than what we talk about constantly though.
I would want him asked about the general lack of achievement in our athletic dept. Without efforting, what, three? varsity teams went to the postseason this past school year (baseball notwithstanding) and none won ACC titles. What is his plan for changing the downward drift of the entire department? If it is ’stay the course”, then what does he know that no one else does? We haven’t hit rock bottom, but I can see if from here.
To me this is so much more than football and basketball.
On the Tennessee season ticket prices. You also have to remember that they have almost twice the number of seats than we do. That’s a lot more revenue.
Appreciate the effort, RAWFS … it went about like you would expect it to go … SSDD
More questions generated, few answer given
So he says “Sid lost the players and could not get them back”. But he did meet with them all individually but that did not work.
But he is “refocusing” now?. Too bad it was radio I wonder if he had a straight face or just a bozo the clown suit on when he made these comments.
Here is a guy who in his athletic program he has a coach in one of his biggest revenue making sports who after just a year on the job after he was an unproven hire who now admititly lost his team! But who is back for more and is refocused? Where or where is any accountability?
Generally when you see a quote saying “Coach X lost the players and could not get them back,” it’s followed by “and so we had to let him go.”
Not that we couldn’t guess Lowe had lost the players, but to have this jackass confirm that he knew that to be the case is amazing. And that nothing is going to be done about it and he’s okay with that. You don’t “lose the players” and suddenly get them back. Fine if he “lost” Gavin, because he’s done. But the others are all still back (J.J. excepted, and I’m guessing Lowe didn’t lose him).
I would simply ask “If you profess to want to win as much as anybody, why the stagnation in so many poor programs?”
The SID has 7 paid staff members. SID draws a little more than $250K in salaries alone.
Qustions for Lee:
* How do you justify making $245,000 a year for the total body of work your department produces?
* How do you justify the fact that by the time you finished being coddled on the Buzz, NC State University paid you nearly $118 (assumes a 40 hour work week, with 52 weeks in a year)?
* How many weeks in 2007 did you log over 40 hours in a work week?
* How many days a week do you make it to the office?
* What educational background and understanding of business and finance do you have to justify running a multi-million dollar enterprise like Wolfpack athletics?
* Can you describe for me the annual review process at NC State? Are reviews documented? What are the metrics for how employees within your business (coaches and administrators) are evaluated?
* What can be done to improve Wolfpack Sports Marketing?
* Why should you make more than senior managers in the business world who actually produce results?
These are just a few…
“I would simply ask “If you profess to want to win as much as anybody, why the stagnation in so many poor programs?”
Trust me, had I been given the chance, I would have asked him to compare his job performance to that of Ron Wellman, Wake’s SID.
Wellman has (and I will paraphrase WRAL.com here) overseen Wake Forest’s football team is having its most successful stretch in school history, winning 20 games over the past two seasons and earning a pair of bowl bids. Wellman hired Jim Grobe and has kept him in Winston-Salem, despite major opportunities for Grobe to move into higher profile jobs.
Wellman also guided Wake through the shocking death of basketball coach Skip Prosser and named assistant Dino Gaudio as his successor, maintaining continuity in a high profile program that has its perhaps its best recruiting class incoming this season.
Wellman also set the plate Wake Forest men’s soccer team that defeated Ohio State in the College Cup to win its first national championship. Their field hockey team made its eighth consecutive appearance in the final four while the women’s soccer team earned an NCAA Tournament bid for the 12th consecutive season.
And oh yeah, their upgrading their football and baseball facilities too.
As such he is a finalist for National AD of the year.
Under Wellman, Wake’s sports are succeeding and prospering. Can we say that about the Fowler era? Aside from Tom O’Brien, the baseball team’s success and the track teams, the answer is no.
I’d love to hear what Lee Fowler thought Wellman had done right in comparison to his own management.
I would like to ask:
1. Since no basketball staff changes are apparently going to occur, what exactly is coach Lowe going to do differently this year to improve upon last year’s results.
2. At what point to you think a coach, any coach, should be fired? What metrics or performance criteria play a part in that decision?
3. Given the amount of financial and other support provided by the Wolfpack fans, where do you think NCSU should rate among the other conference schools in the success of its atheletic programs?
4. What concrete plans do you have to address the gap in where we are verses where you would like us to be (ref. question 3.)
5. At what point would you consider resigning your position if you were not able to acheive the results you desire (ref. question 4.)
6. In the recent past, your stated goals for your department did not include on the field performance. Why is that?
7. Do you think the fans have a right to demand excellence on the field as well as in the classroom?
8. Why do you constantly disparage NCSU fans (directly and indirectly) at seemingly every opportunity? Do you understand that we collectively as doners and NC tax payers (not me I live in VA) pay your salary? Would you speak the same about your stockholders if you were in private industry?
9. Do you understand that through carelessness or caulousness that NCSU has become the laughing stock of the conference and that a large portion of that blame lies with you and your staff (never mind the performance of our teams)?
10. Do you feel no shame that this once proud institution, a founder of the conference, a perpetual leader in basketball is now at the bottom of conference standings in nearly every sport.
I’d be interested in asking Lee this:
1) Has your manager clearly communicated to you what is expected in your current position? If so, what are those expectations?
2) Without revealing any coaches by name, what is your criteria for evaluating their performance?
3) Who do you think of as “your customers”?
4) There’s a lot of criticism on the internet, some of it personal and unwarranted, however, do you think there are some valid criticisms on blogs/message boards of the athletic department?
5) Aside from facility improvements, NCAA rules compliance and supporting the coaches, can you describe what actions you have taken to improve the athletic department of NC State?
6) In your basketball coaching search, you hired a candidate without any college coaching experience whatsoever after extensive search where several candidates publicy removed their name from consideration. Since the search, NC State has one of the worst conference records in major college basketball - how much of this slow start is directly or indirectly attributable to the coaching search itself? Also, if you could do anything in the search differently, what would you do?
One has to admit though, there are a lot of comments that are way off base & offensive on blogs/message boards. Also, recruits do frequent the internet world so fans need to ask themselves if they’re helping or hurting their school with their comments.
SFN: Considering that NC State’s fans are just like every other fan base in the country - except for the fact that we provide more money and more support than others for less wins - how in the world do other schools manage through this?
happy - so what? That’s just reality….its akin to a 15 year complaining that life ain’t fair. You either except reality and learn to deal with it or else. To constantly complain about it is useless.
alright Lee. so you say not many people would come before the 5 hour tailgate limit anyway…. so, I have to ask. why not just open up the tailgating with no time limit?
some schools can recruit no matter how much negativety is on blogs, but others hurt themselves if a recruit gets a bad vibe or feels a coach won’t be at a school very long. NCSU, especially with new coachs, can’t afford to lose even one potential star recruit.
04, Lee wasn’t on the committee that made the 5 hour rule, it was the Chancelor’s decision. Also, he didn’t mention it, but if one drinks for 5 hours vs 8-10 hours, that increases the chances of an issue arising. Probably just playing the odds.
Some very nice questions formed above from James, Wolftown, and chop …
This question in particular gets to me … “* What can be done to improve Wolfpack Sports Marketing?”
We all can plainly see how our athletics teams are performing (or not performing), and these criticisms / questions go directly to the AD’s office … That said, if you’re going to have terrible to mediocre on-the-field performance, shouldn’t you at least excel in your marketing / publicity campaigns in order to somewhat compensate for bad athletics performances?
Wolfpack marketing is terrible … I hate being critical, but it is what it is … Is there a worse combination of high major (BCS) athletics performances AND public relations / marketing?
Hell, I WANT the people in the leadership positions to succeed - primarily b/c they’re at NC State … I don’t necessarily like all of them, but that has little to do w/ actual results … I don’t care if the people in the leadership positions turn it around all of a sudden - like them or not I’d quicky get on board … Go team go … We all know this is extremely unlikely to happen which is what frustrates all of us …
No, we shouldn’t make it personal w/ Jed & co., but he opens himself and the University up to questioning and criticism (not from his beloved set of reporters / journalists of course) … More than this though, give us some ACTUAL RESULTS for the time and money we are giving you and tell your people to be PLEASANT and COURTEOUS to customers and potential customers and we want be so quick to loathe you … Horrible, horrible customer relations at NC State
Sorry, I’m rambling now … anyway, go pack … good luck to the baseball team
“You either except reality and learn to deal with it or else. To constantly complain about it is useless.”
interesting point.
other schools manage through by having a decent atheletic dept and teams , so not as much to criticize.
Wulfpup, it is interesting to note that Wolfpack Sports Marketing is actually owned by Capitol Broadcasting and is a contractee of the university.
Cardiff Giant once told me that their contract was given to them in a no-bid scenario. Now, I am no lawyer by any means (not smart enough) but as I understand the procurement process for the state of North Carolina, that may not have been entirely legal. Again, I do not know this for sure. But I bet that Cardiff Giant could explain this a little better.
Bottom line is that WSM is a vendor, nothing more, nothing less.
Annabelle Myers, on the other hand, is an employee of the state, and she handles the media and relationships with it, but NOT the marketing aspect, that WSM.
Her web page on GoPack also says that she “and her staff coordinate all of the media relations for the Wolfpack athletic program. Her office writes and edits all athletic publications, including game programs and media guides, and coordinates all press conference and interviews with Wolfpack student-athletes, coaches and staff.”
Her staff includes Tim Peeler, who I think does one helluva job.
“….. so fans need to ask themselves if they’re helping or hurting their school with their comments”
So its the old, grin and bear it line, ehh? I think you are putting the cart before the horse.
No thanks, I’ve seen bad management up close, in a setting where commenting on it publicly would land me and mine on the UE line. So as a customer, watching an absolute snake oil salesman in action and keeping mums isn’t something I plan to do.
LF never takes responsibility, he loves to shift it to others. Particularly if they are external forces and he can complain without having to show spine. Those faceless bloggers are a pretty easy target, huh Lee?
So what do you think recruits see when they are AT a football game and the concession stands RUNS OUT OF WATER? Damn blogs, this must be their fault.
What does a prospect’s parents think when they see a news report about kids being denied re-entry to a football game so they are letting nature run its course down the stadium stairs rather than miss the fourth quarter of a great game? Stupid internet.
What do recruits think when they see our arch-rival hang a 40 point whipping on us on national TV. Boy, I’d love to be a part of that, but the bloggers on Statefansnation turn me off.
“Her staff includes Tim Peeler, who I think does one helluva job.”
Agreed, I don’t mean to lump Tim Peeler in there - whom I really like as well …
Also, in my rambling post I meant to moreso call out our PR folks (such as Annabelle) and the ticket office people who are almost always quite curt when I deal w/ them (regardless of whether I have a big smile on my face, a pleasant tone / demeanor, and some money to spend on ol’ NCSU) …
Thanks for clarifying between the two … Frustrating, frustrating, frustrating
happy the point is that a forward thinking AD with a plan could at least in part use the power of the internet to help the department reach some goals if he had any. Also I would posit that customers complaining about the product the AD puts out will have an impact on that department far sooner than LF will ever be able to stop negative comments on the internet. Many ADs have been replaced due to fan discontent, no one has stopped internet commentary on anything.
hpd - There’s a fine line. However, I think it’s a stretch to think that a great athlete won’t come to NC State because of the criticism labeled at Lee Fowler. IMHO, this is just an excuse. Part of Fowler’s biggest problems is that he rarely acknowledges that customers who complain have legit gripes.
To put it in the most basic sense, if Lee managed a restaurant, and you complained about a steak, he’d say that the problem is you, not the steak because it is cooked to Lee’s standards. Do you want eat at that restaurant?
Lee’s chosen the perfect profession, he works in a field where he doesn’t have to please the majority of the customers (because these customers are intensely loyal), he can even insult them, and he can gradually bring in diminishing returns and blame that confounded internet on his problems. The only other profession this would work is print journalism and politics.
Fans have a right to gripe about lack of performance, I agree 100%. Blogs & message boards are part of the landscapr these days, I understand that. My opinion is that when a fan base is constantly negative towards a coach, AD, program, whatever, that negativity might sway a potential recruit that’s on the fence away from NCSU. Kids want to be a part of a fun, positive envroment where their potential coach will be around for their entire career. If all he hears/reads is complaints from those who currently attend or graduated from an institution, he might start to question why he’d want to join a school with a terrible AD & a coach who can’t get it done. If I’m a potential customer entering a restaraunt & hear the people leaving & sitting at tables bad mouth the chef, I’m moving on.
“Cardiff Giant once told me that their contract was given to them in a no-bid scenario. Now, I am no lawyer by any means (not smart enough) but as I understand the procurement process for the state of North Carolina, that may not have been entirely legal. Again, I do not know this for sure. But I bet that Cardiff Giant could explain this a little better.”
I cannot speak to state rules but US government rules are that any purchase (be it service or good) above $5K has to be bid unless there is a specific reason (i.e. no competitor, it does not make financial sense) to do so.
“I understand that. My opinion is that when a fan base is constantly negative towards a coach, AD, program”
That “negativity” is because of a consistent and long term lack of success. any school would have these problems give our dismal athletic results.
^ Packdad,
I see exactly where you are coming from — you always want to put your best face forward to the public.
The thing is, you can go to any major school’s associated forums or blogs and see criticism and negativity — especially after a loss. It just goes with the territory.
Look no further than UNC losing to Kansas in the Final Four and then immediately after “Sticker-Gate.” UNC fans had steam coming out of their vents over both. More for the sticker than the loss, but there were some actually questioning Roy Williams ability to coach on that Saturday night!
In other words, it is not just us, it is everyone. It’s just the color of the landscape now.
And to his credit, Lee Fowler put himself in front of some potential haymakers this morning. Not many AD’s will do that. But if he is going to step into the ring with the fans, he needs to do a little bit more than tell them they might be lying or don’t know what they are talking about. There’s a point where you say, “I don’t know about that situation. I will look into it.” That’s a vague and dissatisfying answer, but it is better than others.
“Kids want to be a part of a fun, positive envroment” HPD^^ its kind of hard to do those things when you only win 4 acc games in a yr. Kids wanna be a part of a WINNING team, thats what makes it fun… win more games, and the recruiting will take care of itself. dont worry about negative comments on a blog if your lee, worry about winning some more god damn games.
as for the tailgating. so lee wasnt in on the initial decision. he addressed it today in his radio intvw. agreed drinking for 8-10 hrs is trouble, but the whole thing was started over that shooting a few yrs ago. and once again, NCSU goes and punishes the masses (who behave properly) for the actions of a few(who were going to cause trouble no matter when they got to the stadium that day).
“If I’m a potential customer entering a restaraunt & hear the people leaving & sitting at tables bad mouth the chef, I’m moving on.”
^^ exactly, and if you are the owner of said restaraunt, what do you do? thats right, FIRE THE HEAD CHEF. good bye LEE.
“That “negativity” is because of a consistent and long term lack of success. ”
It hasn’t been that long since Chuck won the most games in a season in NCSU history & the bball team went to the sweet16 & was finishing in the top half of the conference often.
“you can go to any major school’s associated forums or blogs and see criticism and negativity — especially after a loss. It just goes with the territory.”
Agreed. It just seems there is something negative about a NCSU coach, AD, whoever constantly on the blogs or radio shows. Hate to say it, but we’re not unc when it comes to recruiting, esp in basketball. We need every edge we can get.
04 - easy with the language if you don’t mind.
hpd - Do you know why us Pack fans are po’d - that season you mention - where we went to the Sweet 16 and went 5-3 in the ACC in football was the high point of NC State athletics for those sports(what was then actually the 2002-2003 football season and the 2004-2005 basketball season) since the Sweet 16 of 1989 (that’s right) and the 89 football season where we went and won the Peach.
So, hey that’s great - but in the same year we went to the Sweet 16, UNC won a national championship if b’ball. Wake Friggin’ Forest has won a football championship, Duke has won several ACC championships during that period, Georgia Tech has been to a FF, UMd won a national championship in 2002, BC played in a football championship, VaTech has played in BCS championship games, as has FSU, Clemson finally went to the NCAAs after a long drought, but they haven’t missed a bowl game since Tammy (aka the football version of HWSBN), UVA tied for the regular season championship in b’ball, and has been to several bowl games during this span….So you see where I’m heading - we have very little success to show for in Lee’s years. This baseball team is probably the best major sport team that Lee has had any arguable impact on. Hopefully, they’ll give us some kind of title.
“It hasn’t been that long since Chuck won the most games in a season in NCSU history & the bball team went to the sweet16 & was finishing in the top half of the conference often.”
So we are supposed to be thrilled with one good footbal season and a bunch of medioce basketball ones? And yes it was a while since we had a good year. UNC fired Doh two years after he won national coach of the year. Yet we are supposed to sit here while nearly every sports program we have is wallowing in misery while LF plays his fiddle. On top of that we are the only ACC team to lose s scholarship for academic reaosns. IMO we are far too patient as we keep pumping money into Lee “the half wit” Fowler’s coffers.
Chop,
With all due respect to the baseball team (as well as the non-revenue sports) the only two sports most State fans focus on are men’s basketball and football.
I think we are in very good hands with football. I expect a bowl by the end of next season and if we can stay healthy and grow in certain positions this year, we might see that sooner. O’Brien is the right coach for the right team at the right time. I just wish we’d gotten him in 1999. Then I could be squirreling my extra money away for a big New Year’s bowl trip.
Basketball is the real thorn right now. The coin has flipped from the good feelings we had this time last year. We were certain we would be back in the NCAA. We were sure we would be in the top four of the ACC. Noah may have been the only one who said “whoa, not so fast.” Now, it is getting harder to find a person that believes that next year State turns the boat in the right direction.
I personally think Lee’s tenure here will be determined by Lowe’s performance over the next two years. Lee cannot afford to have the infinite patience he has shown in the past, the natives are already putting the pot over the fire. But if Lowe gets his team into the NCAA tournament, Lee’s as safe as a choirgirl in the church pews.
Rick, thanks for doing the play-by-play earlier. BTW, you should stop hiding behind a pseudonym if you want to be taken seriously.
This is not an original idea or comment, but as much as I agree that the on-field results have been disappointing, I have a hard time blaming Lee Fowler (at least in terms of the extent of it; meaning that it has come this far). We can question him about the failures, but what is he supposed to say, “Yeah, you’re right; I have no idea why I still have a job either!” Thus we get generalities and such because it’s not his fault he still has a job. If you can get by with just saying, “Facilities…We have money…Bloggers are bad…New coaches; need more time” then why would you change your tune? The problem is that he’s (probably) hearing one thing from his bosses and big $$ people and a completely different thing from “average fans” which must lead him to think that “average fan” doesn’t know what he is talking about since his (LF’s) plan has kept him in the AD spot so far. All he can say is, “Look at what we’re doing with facilities” and “Give coaches some more time” etc. (didn’t necessarily say that today, but it’s heard a lot) because that’s the situation he’s put himself in and he has nothing else he can say (other than, “Fire me” and who in their right mind would say that). This is in no way to excuse him (again it goes back to blame being put on him for starting the downward spiral, but not for the extent that it has continued).
Maybe I’m wrong and I think I posted the same feeling yesterday, but I don’t think any of us blame Lee for all of the problems and I’ll be the first to point the finger up the line to WPC, Chancellor, Alumni Association, myself and all the fans for ever letting the state of NC State athletics decline to such a level. However, we do look to Lee to take the “lead in changing” what’s there, not just rolling over, dying, and pointing the finger elsewhere. If it’s the “higher ups” that are to blame, I wish they would also acknowledge it and start moving forward. 30 years of this mess is way too long!
Questions Lee may answer- How many employees report directly to you? How much time do you spend daily in “supervising”/mentoring these employees? What criteria, in order of importance to you , do you use to evaluate the job performance of our coaches ?. How many times a year do you give job performance reviews/ratings to the employees that report directly to you? Same question but instead of empolyees substitute coaches. Finally, in hind sight, Do you think it was wise to state in such a public forum this morning that SL “lost” the team last year? Question Lee would be better off dodging - What did you mean by the SL/parents remark this morning? Questions I hope Lee knows the answers to even though he can not answer publically - What in your opinion did SL/coaching staff wrongly do that caused them to lose the team? Has the team/SL/coaching staff completely resolved the reasons/causes which led to your “lost the team comments ” ? Did you participate directly in verifying that the team/coach differences have been resolved or is your information from SL only ? Do you have a list of must hire coaches for each of our sports should we have to have a replacement on a moments notice? (Hope O and the BOT know the answers to all of above as well.?
After listening to the link/interview I had an outrageously looooooong post typed up, but I hit the delete button. What the hell anyway.
Lee may well get his wish afterall. I know I’m just about sick of typing about NC State altogether.
RedFred,
I for one would like to hear your opinion. You almost always have very good takes.
Remember what V said about never giving up.
RAWFS - what were your 2 questions to Lee?
RAWFS - Just listened to your interview. Funny, it was a lot better than Gold’s in just 2 questions.
One thing I haven’t seen commented on here is very telling, Gold mentions 2 folks when talking about A. Meyers - are those the Duke and UNC SIDs? If so, he just said that she was the KC Royals, and they were the NY Yankees. I don’t know if he meant to, but he actually made your point…
I’m with Packer in Russia. Until LF has any real reason to sweat, he’s not going to give the fans anything. Doesn’t have to, that’s the point. For as bad as we have been in athletics the past few years, the money just keeps on pouring in. Got to hand it to the guy.
I thought it was interesting that they must have been “monitoring” this site during the interview. I posted something about “only losing 4 more games that the prior year and also about the losses to NO and ECTC”. Well, it wasn’t but a few minutes later that they mentioned that.
RAWFS, thanks very much for the compliment. I did try to type a condensed version again because you asked, but there’s too much there. That interview did nothing but convince me that there is brick wall out there, and it’s getting the best of the head that I keep banging into it. Besides, I get way too deep into all of it, and it just comes out as rambling and convaluted anyway.
Somebody, PLEASE, cheer me up.
Wish I could, Fred, but my head is hurting too!
Today’s local paper illustrated choppack1’s observation above that Gold’s subsequent comments put Gold in agreement with the point RAWFS made Friday morn about the perceived professionalism of our SID. News from UNC-CH Friday confirmed that a NC football player had been dismissed from scholarship and a Cal basketball player had been released from scholarship. Great planning or just coincidence that both news items were confirmed/released on a Friday . Friday, I’ve heard , is the day that political types release unfavorable news in the hopes of minimizing the impact of the news. Perhaps just coincidence. At any rate , the Greensboro Daily Tar Heel took the bait and printed a three column story on the UNC-CH basketball release. The GDTH must need more time to research the football dismissal (or perhaps the story was not written for them by UNC-CH) as the football dismissal didn’t make the Saturday paper. Interestingly, we chose Friday (news burial day) to announce the signing of our latest footbal recruit. Shouldn’t we have chosen a more prominent news day so we could highlight again the perseverance and attention to detail that TOB and his staff have (which was led to the signing of this football recruit at such a late stage.) To be fair and to the GDTH’s credit , there was a small recap under “area briefs” noting our newest football recruit.
Old School - there’s also how are spring game is handled. We have the biggest spring game in NC - but there’s no way you’d ever know it. Our athletic department certainly doesn’t mention it. They put all of the fans on side of the stadium - and the cameras on the same side. So at night or in the newspaper, when you see pictures of the spring game, all you see is empty stands. Stands that actually look worse than some of the other local games. Good work!
Chop, that is a really simple thing you’re talking about, but there is NO ONE in Raleigh who thinks that way. The crowd is out there exhibiting their passion and loyalty just like they always do, all NCSU has to do is to walk someone over to the other side of CF, and position them so that they can capture it on film.
Thanks for pointing that out. It’s just another example of how the very simple minds in Raleigh cannot see the obvious, or make use of an already built-in advantage that’s FREE and just “sitting” right under their noses. I swear, it’s like it’s intentional. Like they’re afraid to show it and further pump up their own fanbase, because it could raise expectations even higher, and make their employees/ administrators have to actually work to keep up with all of it.
Almost seems there is a standing order within the entire AD, to keep it low key, and keep the excitement and expectations down. I could go into Sidney Lowe’s first official game as the HC of the NC State BB program AGAIN, but that kind of lost it’s punch with the events of last season. But either way, this administration is so lacking vision, simple as it may be, that if it wasn’t so sad, it would be truly laughable.
redfred - That’s an excellent analogy. Of course, I can see somewhat why they tried to downplay the expectations in Lowe’s case. But for the life of me I can’t understand why you wouldn’t try to play up these intra-squad events (in both football and basketball) that are well-attended by Wolfpack faithful. Unless, as you say, they are afraid that they’ll actually be accountable for the enthusiasm.
In spite of this, it certainly doesn’t stop them from asking us to finance these upgrades does it?
When I was school, the starting salary for an NC State grad was > than the average starting salary for a UNC grad, they didn’t point that out either…
chop, no matter what transpired after the fact, the “choice” of Sidney Lowe as the Head Coach of the NC State BB program was/is Lee Fowler’s baby. They ended up with Sidney Lowe as result of their own inability to promote this BB program properly, and I still believe that it will turn out to be a good stroke of luck. Even if it doesn’t though, NC State hired him, and he DESERVED a proper welcoming back then.
It’s just more of the same, with the administrators proving that they don’t want to get too close to anything that may turn out bad and eventually reflect back on them. Just like they don’t want the responsibility of anything that might turn out too good, and require more effort on their part to maintain.
redfred - I actually believe he got a really nice reception upon the initial hiring. And you’re definitely right about the “ho-hum” marketing in his initial season.
I’ve guessed in the past that part of our Sports Marketing and overall school promotion behavior appears to be in the spirit of “don’t wake up that giant next door.” This of course presents a Catch 22. You can keep on doing what we do obviously do for the spring game - keep it the best kept secret in the state - and insure the status quo. Or you can promote the spring game and say, “come visit the biggest spring football game in the state!” at the risk of annoying Erskine Bowles, BOT, and the all-powerful UNC-Ch marketing arm. In theory, the consequence of this would lead to a full Kennan Stadium coupled w/ a Final 4 game later in the day - a recruiting bonanza.
As it is today, you kind of insure you’ll always be second rate and small time. It’s definitely a self-fullfilling prophecy.
chop, I can’t state it any better than you just did!
The people who stood outside in the heat and welcomed Sidney Lowe very early on was nice, but how much effort was required from anyone at NCSU to put that on? Answer: Almost NONE. Those were FANS, they came because they wanted to be there, I didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary that was done by the university. I’m talking about Lowe’s first game, as well the supposed “celebration” of the ‘83 national championship team, woo hoo.
I tell ya, I’d hate to be one of their kids? Could you imagine one of their birthday partys? I envision a white cake, from Food Lion, with the barcode price tape still in plain view, and a gift certicate from somewhere like Dollar General.
Gotta hand it to them, those folks definitely have a knack for making a special day, something that you’ll never remember.
Please end the thread ^redfred2 and choppack1 can finish their love fest on the phone!