There is an awful lot of interesting stuff for a Daily Update for it be a random Friday afternoon in late April. SFN will definitely have a lot more on the topics included in this entry in the coming days, but we wanted to get this out there for your comments as soon as possible.
Today there is a report by H. Williams Kellenberger in today’s Rocky Mount Telegram regarding last night’s WPC Caravan stop at Benvenue Country Club where Lee Fowler chose to make his job performance a public issue of debate.
We would like to thank the world’s biggest public-relations nightmare for choosing to open the door to public scrutiny of his job performance. Until now, no media outlet who would ever hope to be included on Fowler’s interview schedule or treated with any dignity from NC State’s Sports Information Director would dare touch the topic of analyzing NC State’s athletics performance under Fowler. Thankfully for all of us, Fowler himself has now chosen to make the issue a topic that is open to public scrutiny. Now that Fowler has oppened the door, we implore the media to GO FOR IT!
At least one member of the media has finally taken notice that there is a growing contingent of NC State fans who have started to question Lee Fowler’s job performance at NC State. Lee responded to some of his critics last night with a blatant admission of how he only cares about NC State’s performance BECAUSE of the importance of his pay check:
“I want to make sure they get this on the Internet tonight,” Fowler said, “that I do love to win. I hate losing and Wolfpackers always say, ‘Well, he doesn’t care as much as I do because he doesn’t understand.’ Well, I do understand.”
“What’s funny about N.C. State is that they pay you a check every month, and if I don’t win, and we don’t win, they’ll quit paying me that check. So I really do care about winning.”
We don’t like helping “Coach Fowler” too much around here; but, now that he has let the cat out of the bag it is too late. We couldn’t agree more with Noah’s comments in our comments section:
Lee Fowler, in case you didn’t realize it, is an idiot. Someone needs to explain to him that you don’t punch down. You punch up.
If you’re a fan, you complain about the guy above you…the coach, the AD, whatever. But if you’re the AD, you complain about the league commissioner or the NCAA. You don’t swing at the people below you on the org. totem pole.
Also, Chip Alexander did a lengthy interview with Sidney Lowe. I would recommend reading the whole interview, but here are a few of Sid’s answers:
On JJ Hickson declaring for the NBA draft:
My gut? It’s hard because he’s talked at times about the team and the guys and how he’s really enjoyed playing with these guys.
When we were in [the gym] doing some things [individually] and I gave him some instructions and said, ‘This is how we need to play the game,’ he said to me, ‘Coach, are we going to play this way next year?’ And I’d say, ‘Yes we are, that’s the plan.’ Then, on the other end, he’ll ask me did I hear anything from the league [NBA].
I think it’s just still up in the air right now. We’ll sit down and find out where he’s going with this, who all is coming out. … There are players who could have gone last year and stayed in [college] and had great years. Now they’re lottery picks. He’s certainly a lottery pick is he comes out the proper year.
On injuries to Degand and Johhny Thomas:
A: I think Farnold is ahead of Johnny. We certainly need Farnold because he has that thing you can’t teach, that speed. And he was playing pretty well for us when he got hurt. So Farnold, knock on wood, should be ready to go and Johnny will take a little longer.
Good to hear JJ is still thinking about staying. If we can get any dribble penetration next yr, he will be a beast. i also heard he is still going to class. which is good if he plans on coming back.
sad to hear Johnnys knee rehab is taking this long, and it doesnt sound too good. Seems like he could really help us when healthy.
I was encouraged to hear this bit about adding another player this offseason:
A: If there’s one that makes sense, absolutely. It could be a junior-college transfer. i don’t think there’s a true freshman out there right now. We’ve been looking but I don’t want to fill a spot just to fill it.
also it seems kinda like JJ was beggin Lowe to play uptempo… “Coach, are we going to play this way next year?’ Lets go Sid, no holding these kids back next yr, let em play.
Lee Fowler, in case you didn’t realize it, is an idiot. Someone needs to explain to him that you don’t punch down. You punch up.
If you’re a fan, you complain about the guy above you…the coach, the AD, whatever. But if you’re the AD, you complain about the league commissioner or the NCAA.
You don’t swing at the people below you on the org. totem pole.
Most informed people have conceded that JJ is gone.
The way Fowler demonizes the internet message boards comes across as very defensive since he acknowledges the push against him. It also shows that he hasn’t heard of blogs yet since message boards are mid-90s.
Foulup can talk about facilities and wanting to win all he wants. (How long since the Murphy Football Center and RBC were opened!) But “the proof is in the pudding!” He’s had eight, E-I-G-H-T years to turn the horse around. And his (lousy) record speaks for itself! (Notice that he thinks that the fans who want him gone are still just “fifty malcontent guys on the internet!” He hasn’t even entered the 21st century yet!)
Typical Fowler. He does not know how to handle situations. He ticked off everyone and instead of trying to fix the situation he antagonizes it.
You could almost feel the bitterness in his “get this to the internets” quote.
JB and I recorded a podcast on various topics (focus on Fowler interview) this morning. Should be ready for your listening pleasure soon.
Funny - he couldn’t offer any data that shows our athletic department had results that were improving on the field.
I don’t doubt that Lee wants to win. I want us to win. However, the problem is, I have doubts that he knows how to win. I think the basketball coaching search gave us a good window into his mind.
Here’s one for Lee Fowler: Name one program that has emerged into a national power SINCE you have arrived?
Lee’s also ignoring the huge contingent of the silent majority who don’t post(or don’t post very often) who are also very disappointed in his performance.
Sounds like if there every was an opportune time for that “silent majority) to be very vocal about Lee’s lack of performance, IT IS NOW!
Let’s face it, if he’s finally starting to talk, “he’s starting to squirm a bit”! Feel the pain, Lee! Just as we have for years!
I certainly don’t have any insider information, but I was 100% sure JJ was leaving, but there are a lot quality players declaring now. I’m not sure if this is the best year for him to leave. We’ll see.
“N.C. State AD Lee Fowler Defends Job Performance”
That’s the heading of the article. But having reread the article several times, I do not find anything anything in it relating to Foulup defending either his performance or his position. I wonder of he losing weight again while “working” at his lakeside home!
i like how Lee didnt lay out any clear plan as to how he plans to improve on the basketball situtaion (or any other programs) he just made a broad statement that it will get better…. Well LEE, HOW IS IT GOING TO GET BETTER. i would like to know what steps YOU PERSONALLY plan on taking to ensure that the Athletics Department does improve. Never have i ever heard him mention one concrete thing that he plans on doing himself to make things better. My boss asks me ALL the TIME what i am going to do to increase production. He isnt satisfied with me just saying, “dont worry, Ill get it done”… NO, he wants to know exactly what i plan on doing, how i will accomplish it, and then what i plan on doing to build on that said success. lee is a joke, and any person with a job that is based on performance (which i assume is everyone who is not employed by NCSU) can see it. Start counting the days Lee.
any idea as to who the JUCO Sid mentioned is?
I am sure this has been done before, but I have seen a lot of info on our performance during Fowler years compared to other ACC teams. (Obviously it has been a helpful indicator of our mediocrity) Has there been any analysis of performance of teams before his tenure. For example, winning percentage of baseball or wrestling for 8 years before Fowler and percentage after Fowler.
I suspect this would not be good news for Fowler either.
Excellent interview with Lowe… He’s right that we turn the ball over a ton in transition. Grant himself threw the ball at peoples feet atleast once a game.
Hell, I love to win basketball games too Fowler! Too bad I have no basketball talent whatsoever other than shooting 3’s so I always lose. Just because you love to win does not mean that you do win.
http://wral.com/sports/story/2793022/
Lawson’s heading to the NBA… If Lawson declares I can almost guarantee Hansbro will declare soon.
exactly Trip, i dont think anyone here has ever accused Lee of not WANTING to win. We all WANT TO WIN. what we NEED, is to know how he plans on getting us there. he has never laid anything out that leads me to believe he can take us there. so as far as i am concerned, he is done, finished, gone.
what a dope. Fowler is basically asking to get fired… Anyone think Oblinger has the balls to do it?!
me either….
Lowe on negative internet comments:
“I try to tell our guys these are people who just are passionate about our school. They don’t mean any harm but they have to express themselves and this is how they do it. This is how they get it off their chests. So I tell them don’t take it as personal as it may sound, even though it is hard. I tell them, “They love you guys, they want you to do well but they just hurt. They hurt like we hurt and this is their way of expressing it.” You just have to deal with it.”
Lee must not be mentoring Lowe in any way. If he did, he’d realize that people say things on the internet because they’re a bunch of ignorant bandwagon fans who don’t contribute (i.e. give money) to NC State Athletics except to degrade them.
Russia- I was gonna ask earlier why Fowler couldnt say something like that about fans on the internet… then I remembered- Fowler is an asshole. Lowe is a decent guy that also bleeds red and white and loves the Wolfpack. He gets it. Fowler does not.
There is also a “growing” contingent of students who have actually formed a physical group on campus to do try and make some noise about our athletic director’s “leadership.”
It is a little more media friendly so we’re not deemed “crazy.” It was named Students for Athletic Excellence. Unfortunately it was put together in about a week and had one meeting last night. A paltry showing of 10 students. It was very informative about why Lee is such a goof, but for unfortunate that the creator’s didn’t have more time to recruit and “get the word out” for this year.
I’m hoping that with some more publicity and “recruiting” over the summer and early next year we can get it up to about 50 students by the end of August. I’m not sure what we’ll be able to accomplish. But I know for a fact that the new Student Body President is involved and feels much like most of us on here. Hopefully we can create a strong showing and at least make some noise.
I’m actually only half way surprised that he would blatantly say he only cares about winning because his pay depends on it. (which I do NOT believe - see award of excellence after this year). That reeks of an arrogant pr*ck speaking.
Q: Are there any other players you anticipate leaving the program?
A: Well, Brandon [Costner] could possibly graduate and leave.
Q: Had he indicated he might leave?
A: No. But I know academics are very important to Brandon [a rising redshirt junior] and his parents. I think they thought about him coming to school for three years and graduating.
So that’s going to be always there. So that changes our thought process in terms of recruiting. We have to make sure we’ll have enough big guys to replace J. J. and Brandon and then Ben [McCauley] next year.”
Q: Do you anticipate Brandon being back?
A: I’m going to anticipate him being back, yes.
It’s curious Lowe would mention Costner as possibly leaving and then say that he hasn’t indicated he will. If he didn’t, then why plant the seed? It must have already been planted somehow. I think either he or JJ or both have to leave before we get to the part where Sid brings in a Juco player because otherwise we’re giving up on a 2009 schollie and we don’t have many to play with.
Read both O’Brien’s and Lowe’s interviews in the last couple of days. Neither gave a lot of detail really. So is it just me and my imagination or did anyone else feel from the tone of O’Brien’s answers and the tone of Lowe’s answers that O’Brien is “on plan” and that Lowe really doesn’t have a plan?
What bothers me is that it appears JJ is not concerned what his teammates think about his possible leave for the NBA. If he does stay, I believe there will be even more “team chemistry” issues next season than there was this season. There won’t be much trust to be had. He’s not playing for/with the team, but playing just to get into the NBA.
I think Lowe’s “plan” was to run a thoroughbred race with pack mules. Seems he wanted to install his system, whether or not the players on hand could excel in it, just to get the ball rolling. Perhaps dogged optimism on my part, next year will tell.
mikeD, i dont give a shit what the other players “feel”… they are getting a free education to play basketball for NCSU and the team that said univesrity fields each yr. I also dont understand how anyone on any team would not want to play with someone of JJ’s Caliber. We hear about how much it means to win, well doesnt JJ give the other guys on the team about a thousand times better chance of winning if he does play? Its not about trust for JJ, its about $, and if the other players would begrudge him the opportunity to set his family up for life, then they arent teamates i would want to be a part of. If My coworker had the opportunity to take a job making millions a yr. and he went and listened to the offer. Then decided not to go and wait for the next big offer…. im not going to blackball the guy in the office just b/c he explored his options. what kind of screwed up logic is that? he makes me and everyone in the office better by merely being around, who doesnt want someone like that around if even temporarily???
I think JJ played more for/with the team than anyone else last yr, so to say he isnt playing for/with the team is ludacris unless you have some knowledge that he dogged it or took a dive in a game. And if he is using NCSU as a stepping stone to get to the next level…. so what. i used my first job to get to the next level too?
Wow. I was wrong… the LEAST likely scenario played out for UNC. Lawson/Ellington declared and Hansbro didn’t. Ellington better practice warming the bench because thats all he’s going to do right now in the NBA until he figures out how to do something other than shoot 3’s.
Anyway… My parents probably wish that I could have graduated in 3 years like Costner.
Extremely sad news about Thomas… I had high hopes for him after watching some game film and hearing from people that had watched him play, it’s gonna suck if he loses his athleticism as that was the #1 thing that Sid brought him in for as he’s not an exceptional shooter. Either that means that Degand is ahead of schedule or Thomas is behind schedule… Hope for a speedy recovery to both of them.
Sidney does indeed “Get it” as far as the fans on those damn internets… I love my team, and I love the players… they’re just taking years off my life watching them right now and I must vent about that. Too bad Fowler doesn’t get it.
spanky - shoot me an email at ncsualum@yahoo.com - I still keep in touch with the staff on the magazine I used to edit while I was at State. I’m sure they’d like to run a profile on the organization…
“What’s funny about N.C. State is that they pay you a check every month, and if I don’t win, and we don’t win, they’ll quit paying me that check. So I really do care about winning.”
Well, Lee Fowler is still there and we ain’t been winning.
“Wow. I was wrong… the LEAST likely scenario played out for UNC. Lawson/Ellington declared and Hansbro didn’t.”
Is there any downside to “testing the waters”. Sounds like a smart thing to do even if you don’t want to go.
^Can only “test waters” once — which is fine if you are a junior.
“What’s funny about N.C. State is that they pay you a check every month, and if I don’t win, and we don’t win, they’ll quit paying me that check. So I really do care about winning.”
What’s funny about NC State is that they pay you (LF) a check. Period.
Is there any downside to “testing the waters”. Sounds like a smart thing to do even if you don’t want to go.
Only if you’re a junior.. which Tyler is the only one.
Knowing that he was assistant coach on one of the most corrupt teams in NCAA history (the coach went to jail didn’t he ! ) who in their right minds would hire him for any athletic job ? If he didnt know what was going on he was an idiot (my choice) and if he did know, he was, by definition,involved. We need to fire whoever hired him at the same time we boot him in the arse. By the way “in the day” I coached CYO basketball for the 12-15 age group and little league baseball for the same age group - so you can call me “coach” too. !!!…..a proud member of the “Fowler 50″
This time SFN, I will say you’re definitely in the right to go after our knucklehead AD (not that you need my permission at all to post the truth). I love it when you guys find good stuff like this and quote directly from the horses mou… rear end. Nice work!
In my mind Hickson probably should not be very happy with where he’s projected to go this year in the draft, but will that be enough to keep him around another year in hopes of raising his draft value? I’d love to see him stay another year, if not for us, for his own development and maturation. Though I don’t kid myself with that line of thought for very long…
Internet fringe lunatic #899 reporting for duty. And I think that’s hilarious coming straight from the horse’s @$$. Lee, what’s funny about NC State is, you’ve been losing, and shaming all the people who really care about NC State, and we keep paying you anyway.
192 SCHOOLS N.C.STATE IS NOT ONE OF THEM-Surpise!Surprise!OH NO WE SUCK AGAIN!
How can this be true?We have the I know man-the mighty Lee at A.D.
Lee has fallin and he can’t get up-He can if he would get his foot out of his mouth.
Davidson his 14-I said Davidson has 14-We have 30,000 students at N.C.STATE and we don’t have one frecking team????????
I say FIRE EVERYONE start over-OH WAIT WE’VE DONE THAT ALREADY-START OVER-NOW THE FIRE PART NEEDS TO BE DONE!!!!!!!!!!!
Lee I hear a sucking sound from the toliet or is that you career I hear???
As the lunatic fringe or crazy fans-We get to punch in etheir direction-UP OR DOWN(Oblinger or Lee)
Sounds like someone days are numbered around here.(Let’s ask the A.D.)
If Sid is telling JJ he’s gonna coach next season like he coached this season, I don’t know if I ca take it.
OK…Try this LINK…
http://nacda.cstv.com/directorscup/nacda-directorscup-current-scoring.html
It was the “ratings” that Joe A from Duke used to fluff up his resume.
I went back to the Todd Turner years and did an Excel spreadsheet of our standiings versus the OTHER 11 ACC schools…even though some were not in the ACC then.
We are abysmal…in the BOTTOM Quartile. Unfortuanetly this started with Todd (Monteith TOLD me to do it) Turner. Mary Ann Fox did NOT have any success with Les…(no pun intented)…then her comes LEE.
No matter how you slice and dice the data….we are in bad shape. It will take MORE than an NEW AD……The AD must have some direction and initiative…and Dr. O. does NOT seem interested in Athletics. I think that there is a secret society that was formed during the Valvano lynching that still controls the Chancellor and AD…
I WOULD think that the Lunatics of this blog and others would have an impact…but I doubt it.
LF will be here FOREVER since his resume does NOT look nearly as good a Baddour’s or Alleva’s…
Face it…We’re STUCK with him. It will take a MASSIVE PROTEST (Students NOT going to games, the BULK of the WPC NOT purchasing tickets (then ALL our past LTR Pledges are GONE), Wendell Murphy getting involved (Wendell Murphy, PO Box 1139, Wallace, NC 28466 - Tried to find a good email address for Smithfield foods…none available)…
Otherwise, we’re fornicated….
At LEAST TOB seems to be moving in the right direction (I THINK that Sidney WAS a great HIRE…really want him to succeed…but he needs some managerial HELP…which LF can NOT give him). Maybe, someday, someway…TOB will be our AD and that will move us FORWARD…
GO PACK
I find hope in the fact that this type of public defense of one’s job is usually the beginning of the end for that person. Let’s hope.
So we’ve established that Lee “wants to win”.
And some have suggested that they want more from Lee in terms of what he’s going to do to turn things around. That’s certainly reasonable.
For me though, after 8 years of “results”, having a “plan” isn’t going to do a whole lot for me. Its time for success.
Lucky for him, TOB landed in his lap, which means at least one major revenue sport is in good hands & on the right path. All other sports seem to have major ????
No one knows the juco Sid is talking about because he has no clue …….If JJ and he most likely will go ,and Brandon leaves …….Sid ,staff ,the whole program, which will remain status quo where and how does he fill that void?
Flower is a clown and Sid appears to be sideshow Bob in this outfit.
“So we’ve established that Lee “wants to win”.”
NO. We’ve established that HE SAYS he wants to win!
As you point out, the results say something different.
WTFreak would any AD at a D1 school making 6 figures NOT SAY that he wants to win?
Fowler wants to get PAID…therefore he SAYS he wants to win.
Nothing else can be established as fact based on eight years of behavior and reality.
NOTHING, as far as I can tell, has indicated that the administration or BOT would ever stop Foulup’s paychecks if no NCSU team ever won again or if he never went to the office (does he now?!).
The NC State Cheer and Dance Team was in 1st place for a short time tonight on TV. But, was that a “rerun”???? I’m sure Lee will lay claim to excellence in “cheer, dance, and bass fishing”!
We better be on track. I am getting tired of those unc and duke blogs giving us crap.
well fowler has no right to even have a job ,but his hire Sid? Wow some insight on what is happening with his team?
No way Sid is still in denial I can’t believe it? A college coach does call the the plays not a pt guard.
can somoene please transfer from the basketball team. please.
I could understand if Foul-up said that he wants to win because he loves and cares and bleeds State. But what does he say, “for the paycheck”.
Foul-up- You are a CLOWN!
Pack your bags.
Personally, I have become determined to blame Fowler for EVERYTHING.
If I hit my ball into the lake, it’s Lee’s fault
If it rains at a football game this year, it’s Lee’s fault.
If my cable goes out, it’s Lee’s fault.
Gas prices? You get the idea.
“I want to make sure they get this on the Internet tonight,” Fowler said, “that I do love to win. I hate losing and Wolfpackers always say, ‘Well, he doesn’t care as much as I do because he doesn’t understand.’ Well, I do understand.”
The second sentence is very telling in that Lee doesn’t identify himself with “Wolfpackers”. If he did, he would have said “All of us Wolfpackers want to win.” He is not for us because he is not, and never has been, of us. The best thing the Wolfpack Nation has going for it is that our AD is speaking out and as history has shown, that is a headline waiting to happen. Keep talking Lee - your doing great.
Another quote from the article (Bobby Purcell): “He does a tremendous job day-in, day-out,” Purcell said. “I want you to know that. I don’t think he gets the credit he deserves.”
I only met the man once at a hotel bar in Morgantown, WV (post NIT game loss) last year. However, those comments show me he should not be considered as a candidate to replace LF. How can anyone defend his overall performance. Facilities are not the measure of success. We should have a national search by an outside firm. No more good ole boy selections. The Wolfpack house needs a good cleaning.
Fowler has to go ,but he will be safe here beth us unticause the powers that be don’t give a damn.
Cease please with the Q and A with Sid!Sid has no clue ,plan,vision or idea.I did not hear one hint of hope in anything he said. If JJ goes{I will not care one way or another} or if Costner does as well.
I and most here knew it was a pretty good bet JJ was one and done here with all the hype Sid gave him. Why then do we not have a replacement for these so called front court players? Instead we get a steady diet of 6′4″ guards? No change with us until changes occur from the top ,down!
Our future is the past at least in basketball. TOB will get us on track in football I am sure ,but he came to us basically . Sid on the other hand was and is Lees man. Herb I am sick of hearing about him for sure ,but the whole get behind Sid movement was “He got the job late he had no choice he was stuck with Herbs players .Well I will give that to him ok. Last years class? JJ-I was led to believe he was the answer someone who would carry the team ?
Javi ,MJ ,Degand put all three together we might have a popint guard….
this was also our number one priority due to the graduation of Astur!
Thomas - If he can play ?We may never know because of injuries.
Tracy Smith- looked ok just wondering why it took so long with the season heading south it took Sid so long to put him in a game ?
Now on to this years class? We need big people if it is true, and JJ and Brandon are gone? If they do leave we have Ben at 6′10″ and Tracey at 6′7″ the rest of the squad 6′5″ or below?
But when asked if he had any changes in coaching personal Sid answered quickly “No” how can we or anyone be optimistic about our chances or our future?
^ It is true BD is right on the money there. Where are the recruits????