Here’s the full article. Key excerpt:
“Coach is a great man,” Hickson said. “When I came to this program, it was more like he cared about J.J. as the person rather than J.J. the basketball player. I think he does have my best interests at heart. If me and my family feel like it’s comfortable and I should go to a team that needs me, then make the decision.”
Lowe, who coached 15 NBA seasons before coming to N.C. State, said he will wish Hickson well if he decides to leave.
Reading between the lines - Hickson is leaving, and Sid (with JJ’s help) is framing it in the best possible light, hoping to attract other high profile recruits with NBA dreams. FWIW, everything that SFN has heard is consistent with Hickson going pro. You should have no real hope, and certainly no expectation, of Hickson returning for his sophomore season.
maybe you won’t delete this comment for no reason
SFN doesn’t delete a comment ‘for no reason.’ If it’s deleted; there’s a reason. If you can’t figure out why, or if you don’t agree with the reason, that’s a different matter. — SFN
I still think it’s really up in the air on staying or going. If he really projects to the second round like I’ve heard some say, what’s the harm in one more year for him? Though you guys make it hard for anyone to want to come here anyway.
I wish him the best if he goes, and after this year- I understand completely.
“what’s the harm in one more year for him?”
1A) Chance of injury.
1B) Chance of going 0-16, being quadruple teamed each time out.
If your a high first round draft pick you should definately go. That’s alot of money. If you can make that kind of money at a job then it’s a no brainer. If your projected as a late 1st round or 2nd round you should stay to improve your stock.
God bless you Hickson! Hopefully you can find a team with players that will accept you. Again I am sorry you had to waste a year with our other talentless, classless players.
Multiple, independent sources saying he’s gone. I’ve not heard a soul (in a position to know or make an educated guess) so much as hint that JJ might stay.
I imagine the only thing that could keep him here is him being a borderline first, likely 2nd round draft pick.
The question to all parties involved would be:
So - was this foray worth it?
This would not rank high on my list of big surprises for 07/08. We all knew he was planning on one year and then chasing his NBA dream.
Too bad it will start as NBADL.
^^ it was 1,000% worth it. Don’t discount JJ for the injuries and lack of effort from other players. If we played 40 hard minutes like we did once or twice this year we could have been a 10-6 ACC team.
McPete knew it was over when JJ referred to himself in the 3rd person. that’s never a good sign.
“Though you guys make it hard for anyone to want to come here anyway”
I call BS on that one. JJ thought lowe could help him get into the league, he didn’t think statefansnation.com would hurt his chances to get into the league.
I can see from his perspective - stay and develop, or get paid and develop in NBADL. Sure, he may not get the huge contract to start with, but he will be paid plenty, and he probably thinks he will be in the league for a while with the chance to sign a huge deal once the initial is up.
You simply cannot project logic on this when a kid has it in his mind that he’s one and done from the day he drops 31 on William & Mary. You can try to reason that he’s better off coming back if he’s not projected in the lottery, etc. Whatever. I will be stunned if he comes back. Even though he’ll probably be riding D-League busses next year, he’s gone.
^ Exactly Rochester. Thank you for blessing us with your presence JJ. The one thing seemingly not up for debate is you won’t be a star next year. Maybe ever again. Remember that on those bus rides.
Go ahead and go already! Sheesh! I’m tired of these guys with marginal NBA talent coming here, staying one or two years and then going pro and languishing on the bench. I’d rather have four or five really good COLLEGE players who will stay four years than these one or two and done guys.
My personal opinion is that Lowe told JJ he’d showcase him for a year when he talked him into coming to NCSU over UT.
The kid’s goals at NC State have nothing to do with college, and everything to do with satisfying the entry requirements for the NBA. He’s done that, and if he gets drafted after the fifteen guaranteed picks he’s going to be fine with that and won’t have to worry about school at all, because he never intended to seriously pursue a degree in the first place. Were there no age requirement for the NBA, Hickson would have never come to college at all.
Lowe did what he said he would do and so did JJ. Of course, that came at the expense of McCauley and Costner’s peace of mind, but that’s collateral damage.
Expect Hickson to name an agent pretty soon.
Where is Simmons now? Last I knew he was with N.O. but playing junk time. I think Hickson should stay if he is projected in the second round. But I don’t blame him from high tailing it out of town after this season.
SFN: Simmons was traded to Chicago Bulls, in a three-team trade, along with Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes and Shannon Brown in exchange for Ben Wallace and Joe Smith.
I’d rather have four or five really good COLLEGE players who will stay four years than these one or two and done guys.
Exactly, but athletic. See: Gary Williams.
I’m with DRW and RAWFS on this. Give me a Chris Corchianni, Rodney Monroe, Engin Atsur, Julius Hodge, 4-year, good college player over the 1-and-done NBA bench guys.
If JJ leaves without finishing classes for the spring semester and a couple guys transfer we could find ourselves on the wrong side of that graduation report (which I seem to recall stupidly penalizes a school for too many transfers). The last thing we need now is to lose a scholarship.
I am so over this guy JJ a great game yesterday but a weak frontline for uof m as well, He is 6′9 post up player I don’t see how in the world he can get a run with his skills,can’t shoot from the outside,pass,rebound no natter what he did yesterday or handle……look around the country the kid alexander at west virginia is 6′10 and has all the tools …….Overated and disrupted the team or whatever we have going there now……..Thanks Sid
well who is Sid gonna replace him with? oh thats right we have nothing coming in next yr. thanks for the time JJ, you were one of only a few bright spots this yr. we have no talent coming back next yr. we suck so bad and will contiue to suck for the foreseeable future. this is a bad time for NC State fans.
is there any rumor of Sid going after Terrell Holloway?
is there any rumor of any transfers/defections? i for one hope the whole lot of em leave. this team was so pathetic it wasnt even amusing. none of them even gave a shit. id rather have a team full of Brian Nieman type walk ons than suffer thru another yr of this bullshit
j.j.’s gone. i don’t see him as an nba star though, i think he’s going prematurely. tough decision for a kid his age, the chance of making more money than he’s ever seen, vs. maturing another year - on a stinky team.
anyone who resents a college player for leaving early for the nba might bear in mind: they don’t commit to stay for four years. the current “market” for college players takes into consideration their freedom to go to the nba. if we started insisting on four-year commitments we’d quickly learn that we can’t recruit that way.
It’s worth noting here that Coach Lowe’s master plan in recruiting ‘07 was bag JJ and feature him in an offense RUN by Chris Wright. We all know how that worked out.
If the Ohio State hadn’t have reached the championship game and the frshman pair of Oden & (name of pg slips my mind) leave, does Matta and his departed players get chastised as some want to do to our guys?
JJ has the potential, but he’s gonna lose a lot of money if he goes this year. The more I watched, the more I felt his presence was a hindrance rather than a help to the team. Great scorer at the college level, but a complete funnel- the anti-McCaulley. Unfortunately the staff played into that trap and WAY too often there was JJ down low and 4 guys standing around. No movement, no cutting, no flow to the game (wistful a bit of the Princeton cutting I must admit, but not of the insane droughts). Hopefully Lowe has learned that there is something to fluid team movement and spacing. I don’t think Costner nor Ben ever had a chance to contribute this year because the ball movement only went into JJ, and when it didn’t there seemed to be no scheme to make the team function together. There’s a good nucleus even if JJ goes- Horner, Smith, Ben and Brandon all should be way better next year.
JJ should stay and develop the skills he is really gonna need to play in the NBA at 6′9″. Right now he’s one dimensional, and as good a low post scorer he is he’s not gonna succeed at the next level on that alone. I really hope he stays and improves for himself and the team, but whatever happens, I hope next year State plays a team game, not the 1 and 4 game of this year.
If I were JJ, I’d think real hard about transferring even if I decided not to go to the NBA. We didn’t play as a team all year long and it certainly couldn’t have been any fun for him. This season was just pathetic. I really need to see a ton of improvement starting next week.
Note to Sid: You should layout your plan for improvement to the Wolfpack Nation very soon. Your evaluation may not come until the end of next season; however, if you don’t share some info, I’m affraid support for you and the program will be weak to nonexistent. Of course I only speak for myself but imagine others are waiting to hear the explanation for this season and how you plan to fix it.
I think JJ should go. He’ll most likely be a first round pick. I don’t see him doing himself any service by staying in college (1. see Costner)
Good luck, JJ. I’d want to be as far away as possible from this team too.
preseason, any reason we won’t be the unanimous pick for 12th in the ACC? I sure don’t see one…
People keep pointing to Costner as the reason to go. There is huge difference (pun not intended, but hey it fits) between Hickson and Costner. Costner had no chance of going pro last year.
Hickson would be well served to stay another year, but sometimes logic is trumped by money. Unfortauntely there are countless stories of guys going early and ending up nowhere. To say he will make a bunch of money in the D league - think again. All the guys in the D league are good ballplayers, and most could play in the NBA IF they get the right chance. The issue is getting the right chance. A couple years in the D league guarantees nothing, and soon you are forgotten about.
I am not trying to knock JJ, but going against guys like Shaq, Garnett, Dwight Howard, and some other very athletic, strong big men, he will be eaten alive, kicked to the curb, and there will be no big money. The key to NBA marginal players is the 2nd contract, and many of those guys never see it. I wish JJ well, but he really needs another year in school to avoid the D league.
I don’t think anyone disagrees that Hickson NEEDS more time. Well, other than Hickson, that is.
Good luck and God Bless … Thank you for your efforts this past season JJ Hickson
Too bad it had to be a season like that, but I am glad you were here and hope it was an overall good experience for you …
Things that sold me on JJ Hickson being a really good young man:
First - Something I saw in person; It was pregame for one of the early season games, and the team had been called to the locker room for the final time … JJ was the last player to head toward the tunnel, and as usual there was a kid there trying to get a “five” from the players … JJ didn’t see this particular kid, but something got his attention and JJ made a point of coming back out of the tunnel just to give this young kid a “five” … I was really impressed that he just didn’t ignore the kid and run on into the locker room
Second - the article describing how his Mother died when he was 12 … He was raised by his Grandmother and has a work ethic second to none … Up everyday for 6am workouts no matter what regardless of whether he was alone in doing it
Any program would benefit from people like JJ Hickson, whether they stay one year or 4 years … His prescence in the lineup could have caused some disruption in the team dynamic, but I put that more on his “teammates” (if that’s what you want to call them) than Hickson … I think he could benefit individually from another season, but totally understand his going … GOOD LUCK
Whatever his choice — he will be miserable because of a lack of playing time.
If we assume his talent to be similar to that of say UNX player Brandon Wright (who went high in the first round last year) then he can expect the same fate as Wright who is sitting on the bench most of the time in Seattle.
I know Brandon’s high school coach and he said Wright’s choice to go early was due to family and financial decisions - but that Wright is really regretting going early and just watching this year rather than playing. Brandon got a fat pay check but JJ as a second rounder won’t get a big pay check.
My belief is that he should come back for one more year, bulk up some, hone his skills, and go for a higher first round spot.
Costner absolutely had a chance at getting drafted last year:
“Costner had himself a great season last year, emerging under the national spotlight late in the season, and moving his way up the draft boards of many NBA teams.”
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brandon-Costner-547/
Here was some guys draft with him going 1st round 2007:
http://veganfishtacos.wordpress.com/2007/12/11/a-different-kind-of-nba-mock-draft/
Here is a mock 2009 draft with Costner going in 2nd round:
http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba/nba-draft/kicksvibe/lance-s-2009-nba-mock-draft-ar46529.html
Off the subject, but thought it was relevant to discussion of next year’s team.
Copied and pasted from Carteret County News-Times.
BY J.J. SMITH
NEWS-TIMES
MOREHEAD CITY — N.C. State freshman Johnny Thomas, a former Carteret County News-Times Player of the Year in boys basketball, is ahead of schedule in his rehabilitation from a knee injury suffered in September.
“It’s coming along pretty good actually,” said Thomas in a phone interview. I’ve been running for about three or four weeks now.”
Thomas was diagnosed with an osteochondral defect in his knee, causing the cartilage to become brittle and break free due to a lack of blood flow, after injuring the knee while playing pickup basketball.
The former West Carteret Patriots star has not sulked after suffering the injury, but has used the time to focus on academics.
“I was disappointed when I got injured but I know that everything happens for a purpose,” said Thomas. “There have been times when it’s been frustrating, but I haven’t gotten to the point where I’ve allowed it to get me down. I’m focusing on getting the job done academically.”
Thomas registered a 2.9 grade-point average during the fall semester and is close to a 4.0 this spring.
“I’m planning on majoring in sports management, because I want to be an agent,” said Thomas. “I plan on attending both summer sessions, because I want to graduate in three years and come back and major in business.”
When Thomas isn’t hitting the books, he’s adapting to the life of an injured player in Division I college basketball.
“I rehab everyday and then go watch practice, and it’s a day-by-day process,” said Thomas. “I actually think that the injury has helped me to sit back and learn the plays from the bench and how to react in certain situations. It’s also helped me to get used to the ACC environment. I’ve grown accustomed to it now.”
The 2004-2005 News-Times Player of the Year averaged 23.2 points and 8.8 rebounds in his last year for the Patriots.
The Morehead City native chose to transfer to Greensboro Day High School – a college preparatory independent school that boasts a 100 percent college acceptance rate – to experience a tougher academic and basketball environment after his junior year at West.
Thomas native led Greensboro Day to a 32-2 record and the NCISAA 3A state championship in 2006 and averaged 19.8 points and 9.8 rebounds, while leading the team to a 31-2 record in 2007 and a runner-up finish in the state title game.
Thomas, who received a medical redshirt this season, is the first male basketball player from Carteret County to play in the prestigious Atlantic Coast Conference since Robert McLean graduated from West Carteret in 1965 and went on to play for legendary coaches Press Maravich and Norm Sloan with the Wolfpack.
N.C. State’s disappointing season came to an end yesterday with a 63-50 loss to Miami in the first round of the ACC Tournament in Charlotte.
The Wolfpack, who were predicted to finish third in the conference by the ACC media and began the season ranked No. 24 in the preseason ESPN/USA Today Poll, ended the season in last place in league play with a 4-12 record to go along with a 15-16 overall record.
Situation reminds me a lot of Josh Powell. Same type of game, though obviously Hickson was a way better freshman than Powell (whether that was due to talent or the system in place is debatable). Powell is in year three or four of the NBA and is finally getting some minutes for the Clippers - although only because of injuries. Still, he’s putting up fair numbers, and even got a double-double last week, I believe. I can kind of see the same thing happening with Hickson. I doubt he’ll make big bucks, but you’ve got to remember that the minimum salary for NBA rookies next year is $442,114. Then, in 2010-2011, the minimum salary for a third-year player will be $854,389. That’s not bad for riding the bench, provided he can stick around.
Also, the comparison to Costner is not that much of him losing whatever draft status he had, but how much worse both him and McCauley played this year. I realize this coaching regime is new but I have not only not seen player development since the off season but player regression. JJ Hickson could actually get worse if he stays, not better.
Maybe JJ can end up on the same team with Ced Simmons and Josh Powell. That would be a devastating NBA frontcourt, featuring the only Pack players in the NBA…….. I mean devastating to the fans of that team of course.
WOW!
I love the conspiracy theories about how Sid purposely ruined the sure ascent from 5 game ACC winner to national championship contender by purposely highlighting JJ at the destruction of Ben and BC and how JJ was in on this as well because he hates puppies and what not just like Sid.
(Funny, Herb told every recruit in AAU ball he was going to run Pitino’s fast paced offense, but all of the top recruits laughed at him. Then he promised Damien Wilkins the world on the recruiting trail—at the later expense of Tim Wells. Then, he promised Julius Hodge he would be Reggie Jackson at the expense of Josh Powell…Hmmm, James Harden at the expense of Eric Boetang?)
State fans said they wanted better than 4th place and early exits from the NCAA’s, maybe even an ACC Title sometime. How in the hell do you do that without upgrading the talent level? Say what you want to say about JJ and his motives, but the guy brought the effort every game whether he started or not—which is more than you can say about the entitlement crowd who put their minutes and shots above winning. It is a shame for JJ that he couldn’t have come in with a point guard at least on the level of a Bobby Frasor who obviously has way more “character quotient” than anyone State has recruited in years because Bobby apparently loved beating State when he was a starter and remained happy to beat them when he was recruited over and had to come off the bench behind Ty Lawson.
State is paying the price for running off a mediocre coach without having a competent AD in place to replace the old coach with said buffoon of an AD running a catastrophe of a coaching search which left recruits to develop relationships elsewhere before the absolute last choice of a replacement finally took the job.
Why anyone even bothers discussing Lowe until after Fowler is fired is beyond me. Lowe’s competence or incompetence is irrelevant as he was the only guy who would take the job. If you leave Fowler in place, who is next on LF’s coach list? Justin Gainey? Archie Miller? Maybe Julius Hodge or Josh Powell are through dominating in the pros and would like a new challenge…
If Lowe doesn’t sign a monster class in November, he should head back to the pros himself because the backbiting going forward will be ridiculous.
It is sad to see a legend who actually gave State fans one of the two main pieces to base their historic expectations on be torn apart so badly.
I blame that on Lee Fowler—Sid doesn’t get the job if Fowler had anyone anywhere who respected him enough to have taken the job before Sid stepped in to try to save the day.
Hickson should check this out:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/cedric_simmons/index.html?nav=page
Good post Shooting guard.
Love it Shooting guard!
What was weird about Powell was the fact that he was a good student in the classroom. I felt like that was something important to him and that he would have stayed in school. Unfortunately as many players did under Herb they had no respect for him and wanted out. If Powell had stayed one more year we probably finish 1st in the ACC instead of 2nd and he’s a high first round draft pick. If only….
Damn, I was hoping to hear something different from you guys about JJ. My dad(UVa alum) and I were talking on the way to Charlotte yesterday about JJ going pro. He didn’t think it was going to happen simply based on not being all that dominant in the 2nd half of the ACC season. I had started thinking the same thing, but then he goes for 27 and 14(or whatever it was) and he again looked like a top NBA prospect.
If he is barely a 1st round pick, then I think you could argue that coming back could make sense. However, what makes sense to me isn’t important and that is one of the first things you have to realize when talking about whether a kid should go pro.
Choppack brings up an interesting question in regards to was it worth it? Time will only tell and we certainly could have sucked this year even worst without him. Relying on Costner and McCauley, neither of which is even a decent ACC player now, could have been even a bigger disaster.
I am sorry to hear he is leaving, but he was a pleasure to watch all season and I am glad to have at least one reason to maybe watch a few NBA games in the future.
JJ may well turn out to be a tremendous talent in the NBA, but it ain’t happenin’ anytime soon. For all the hype and early season swoons over his ability, reality set in. He was average at best when the real season started against the big boys. I just don’t understand how with so much talent, there was no better relationship among this group of players. Bilas had it right when he said a couple of times, “they don’t even look like they like each other”. A coach has to stem that tide at some point. JJ will be a player to be reckoned with in the NBA, I just hate the toll it seems to have taken on our program. With the possible exception of Football (TOB is the real deal)we are abosolutely in shambles atheleticly at NCSU. Oh for an AD shake up like happened at Nebraska. It might take them awhile to right their ship, but at least the administration had the balls to say, by God, enough is enough. Our folks keep lolly gaggin’ around because they have the faithful by the cods with LTR’s and WPC membership. Worse, a good handful of the “super moneyed” and other Raleigh locals are catered to constantly, so there’s no real urgency to change the status quo. They don’t run their businesses like that, but this is entertainment, and they are being entertained. Kind of like the “Emperors Club”, they must be getting their backs scratched a bit.
I continue to be amazed at how the NBA is so willing to throw draft money at propects based almost entirely on potential. Hickson was hardly a force in the ACC this year… but did make the All-Frosh Team… and that somehow lands him an NBA contract?
Somewhere, Damon Thornton must be wondering what on earth has happened since 1997.
The nba is killing college basketball. Players should be 21 and have completed three years of school. That would leave only one year of school left. If you come to college you should make a strong commitment to your school. For every player that leaves school early he has taken the place of a student who may have stayed four years and graduated.
” Hickson was hardly a force in the ACC this year”
He finished the year 11th in the acc in scoring, 1st in field goal %, 2nd in rebounding, and 6th in blocked shots. he was our leading scorer, despite facing constant double teams all season long. was he really supposed to do? score 30 a game, when the rest of your teammates on offense are standing around barely occupying his man? he was a great freshman, and runner up for acc ROY.
This could be its own post.. but I feel college basketball has gone WAY DOWN HILL since the 80’s. Used to be rare for a player to leave their junior year (ala M Jordan), but I think it was Kenny Anderson who really opened the flood gates of kids going pro.
My big beef is that the rivalries are truly hurt now. Used be you hated Bobby Hurley b/c he was at Duke what seemed forever. You used to know the names of the players on other teams, knew their faults, and you loved to HATE them.
Now.. I asked a UNX fan the name of someone on their 2005 team, he couldn’t remember. With the current “one and done” system… basically a player starts the year on the bench, gets time with the weak games, by the 3rd conference game is a starter and by the last conference game is fielding NBA questions. Its so hard to love a team b/c the players will all be gone next season, its more like you the logo.
big ups roandaddy
If JJ, all other players, and the entire coaching staff returns, and we run the same offense and defense, and the staff runs the program the same way they did this year (practices, conditioning etc)then I predict we will end up near last place again. The extraordinary talents of Mays/Degand/Williams taken into account as well.
“It’s worth noting here that Coach Lowe’s master plan in recruiting ‘07 was bag JJ and feature him in an offense RUN by Chris Wright. We all know how that worked out.”
vtpackfan, THANKS for pointing that out again. That is something that even I forget, and I had a big theory on how Sidney was planning to announce Chris Wright on team day. But as was rummored later on, Lowe was left standing at the alter when Wright changed horses on the very eve of that announcement and Lowe’s first recruiting splash, as well as his plans for the talent he had in mind, never got off the ground.
“I don’t think anyone disagrees that Hickson NEEDS more time. Well, other than Hickson, that is.”
Noah, good to hear you say that, but I don’t know if I wouldn’t switch and counter you on this particular situation myself. I’d love for JJ to come back, and he would benefit more time playing on this level, but maybe not so much where he is. Something must happen with these coaches, and very rapidly, because things just aren’t looking very promising in Raleigh right now.
Also, about players stick around and develop into great college BB players, and even later NBA players, that does still happen, it’s just that every kid is encouraged to go, go, go, before they take the to develop the necessary skills. Oh, and don’t forget, like someone said earlier on this thread, and like someone always has to say, they shouldn’t take the risk learning how to really play the game of BB in ‘normal’ progression through the different skill levels, they may get hurt doing that. So just skip it and take the money, you may not ever catch up or even be a good professional BB battling against far the superior talent up there, but what the hell, you signed into Da League Man. That what it be all about.
Go ahead JJ, you’re not ready, and you will fade right into a whole host of nameless journeymen who go from here to there, searching for a home in the NBA. You’ll also fade just as quickly off of my radar screen.
roandaddy,
I love the school and team far more than I love individual players, but I TOTALLY get what you are saying … It is so much more fun to love the players you KNOW will be on your team and hate the players you know will be on other teams
***
Noah or somebody can probably state this better than I can, but it’s my opinion that the NBA does things completely ass backwards and it has unfortunately altered things on the college landscape … The NBA rewards potential before production and values and markets individuals far more than it does teams and/or cities … All this in a team-based sport … I find that so stupid it’s funny …
There’s simply no comparison when it comes to the popularity of the NFL vs. that of the NBA … The NFL has been and still is a finely tuned business … stars come and go, but fans still love their teams and the product as a whole
Unfortunately w/ the NBA, it affects the college “amatuers” directly … As unseemly as college recruiting can be, people still love the product b/c at it’s core - team is valued greater than the individual … people love their respective schools and traditions, no matter who the individuals are playing
I hate SportsCenter sooooo much now b/c they play right into the NBA way of thinking … if Kobe Bryant scores 64 pts., it will be the lead story on SportsCenter WHETHER HIS TEAM WINS THE GAME OR NOT … I hate that sooooo much … “LeBron scores 55 as the Cavs lose by 18 - Next on SportsCenter!!!” … They THINK that’s what I care about, so they shove it down my throat … thanks ESPN … stupid f*****s
The only thing worse than watching the NBA is watching Lowe implement an NBA approach to coaching NC State.
^pup, It’s nothing but all about >>> ME <<>> $$$ <<< these days.
Like people tell me, “Don’t be so naive, you can’t fight change.”
Yep, just sit back, shut up, and watch as it swirls around and around a few times, and then all goes straight down the toilet.
wufpup76- good assessment. The Bobcats down this way struggle with Fan attendance. I just think the whole NBA product is wrong. wuf is right all the media and marketeers care about is if LaBron scores 55, the team be damned. And the whole NBA model is killing the college game as it was. Can’t blame the kids though. If someone is dangling millions to a kid from anything other than an upper class background, they are crazy not to take the mans money. My prior comments on JJ might have been a little off base when looking at statistics, but his presence surely was anything but all-star, and his effect on the team seemed negative. A team with the talent level we had this year doesn’t implode that badly with the addition of a JJ unless something internal is terribly wrong. I’ll still lay some blame for this on the coach. Sid has to learn to manage, he’s the boss not the kids.
It’s a shame that college basketball has been reduced to what it is now. No offense to JJ in particular, but I’ve been saying for quite some time that if these kids don’t finish a degree before they go running off to the NBA (or NFL or MLB), they should have to pay back whatever scholarship money was provided to them. Shouldn’t be hard with all the big bucks they earn in the NBA, right? In the very least, it might make some of the pretenders think twice before leaving early. It also might improve the NBA, which has become a joke over the last ten years or so because it has been watered down by mediocre talent.
Go ahead JJ, you’re not ready, and you will fade right into a whole host of nameless journeymen who go from here to there, searching for a home in the NBA.
If this turns out to be JJ’s future, staying at State would not help change it.
Perhaps it’s my rational side flexing its’ thoughts and if I were in JJ’s shoes maybe I too would be thinking more with my hearts desire and go for it but-I still feel like he’s coming back. I don’t see him getting picked high in a draft glut with power forwards that have a better resume than JJ’s and think it’s too risky to go for it if you’re projected as a late first rounder. I think he’ll flirt with the idea and leave us guessing until the April deadline but I don’t think he goes.
At the same time, maybe I’m irrational because the reality is JJ’s, not mine.
Too bad some of us grew up very familiar with both UNC and NC State back many, many years ago. We watched as both programs rose and rose, then saw both of them reach the very top of the plateau at a fairly close period in time. Then watching one of the two start to plummet while being an unnecessary Boy Scout when there was absolutely no reason for anyone to do so. NC State was so busy trying to placate the entire universe when there was no one was asking them to, that they could not get of their own way. All the time the athletic programs were being run deeper and DEEPER into the ground while doing so.
I hate unc with a passion, Duke can’t even register on the negative end that same scale, but I’ll be damned if unc doesn’t have the right people who work their asses off to perpetuate their good fortune. I hate ‘em, but they are the flagship, and looking over at the lack of achievements by their similarly funded neighbor in Raleigh does nothing but make them look, and BECOME, better and better, year, after year, after year…
What NC State has become sucks out loud for everyone. Hell, even the carolina fans themselves will tell you that. But if you’re a Wolfpack fan, and my age or older, it is an absolute, gut wretching, disgrace.
I’ve been wasting my time waiting for a dinosaur to reappear, but it’s time realize that it just isn’t going to happen.
On ESPN, there’s my buddy Bobby Knight, in a green sweater?
Uh oh, upon announcing his retirement Dave Odom was just labelled the lofty, and very much sought after title, of “a class act” by the ESPN panel. There’s another of those well respected, but only within the inner circle, classy kind of guys.
Have a great retirement there Dave.
Which BTW, the ESPN panel includes a guy named Robert Knight, who is wearing a ‘green’ sweater??? Something about that just doesn’t look quite right.
Off topic…sorry the Leinenkuger Honey Wheat brings out the worst in me….but after watching the dook GT game I have to give Greg Paulus some advice…dude check into a battered wife’s shelter, those black eyes tell me your boyfriend beats on you regularly.
^”Off topic…”
What’s that all about???
Oh, sorry, I didn’t know there was a topic.
JJ is a good player,he should do whatever is best for him and his family.If he returns it will be a plus for next year-hope he does.The biggest problem n.c.state has is not the coaches we have it’s the(You guessed it!You win a prize-You are the Man!)Lee-(I know everything!)Foulupacoachingsearch the A.D. at N.C.State.I haved lived a personal HELL the last 12-15yrs-My wife is a UNX GRAD.And her family as well- I ran out of excuses years ago for our athletic programs. Basicly -I don’t think anyone really gives a shit in the athletic department any more-SHOW ME WERE I AM WRONG=I WILL SHUT UP!
I think the Hickson experiment was a total bust,from the day Coach talked about how good he was before he ever played.
He won’t play in the NBA next year, will be in development league. He will get eaten alive and has a lot to learn about D.
turfpack yes lee blows but it is still no excuse for the way this team played this year…….thats sid and his staffs job………….if you have zero talent and you call yourself a coach the one measuring stick is that no matter how bad you were ,you were improved by the end of the season (we did have some talent) unless lee and I say it again he blows,but unless he is running the practices and sending in plays(we know he ain’t doing that we had no plays) the fault with what happens on the court lies with sid,of course players are responsible as well ……but that is his product.
What about Julius Hodge? His stock dipped from Junior to Senior.
If I was JJ, I’d declare, test the waters at the combine, then come back if you’re not guaranteed first round.
NBA properties is where the big money is. They were clearing about $3 billion annually back in the early 90s. I’m sure they’re doing just as well today.
Yes, I agree that the way the NBA does it’s draft is completely ridiculous. The system actually rewards players for NOT giving scouts a lengthy look at their game.
You know, you can make an argument that a truly great college recruiter no longer grabs the best players that he can…but rather, he grabs the best flawed players that he can…guys like Hodge, Hansborough, and Paulus. All of them are good college players and all will be there for four years. That will do you much more good than getting OJ Mayo or Michael Beasley.
I’d almost rather get Ryan Kelly than JJ Hickson. Kelly will be there for four years and you’ll never have to worry about grades, behavior, effort or chemistry with him. No, he won’t ever be as good as Hickson…but he’ll give you four good years as opposed to one spectacular year.
Noah, I’m totally with you on Ryan Kelly. Seems like the kind of kid who will get better and better over four years. I hope we land him.
Noah, what you’re saying is very true, but I say that also goes back to the former coach, and the debate about having to recruit elite players in order to compete for any sort of titles. I love to win games, ACC titles, and national championships, but I can also enjoy NC State basketball when I see kids developing and playing their asses off for the right reasons in a Wolfpack uniform.
Last season we saw some somewhat marginal players elevate their games as the season progressed, and it was fun for all of us. This season was a disaster in comparison, but in all honesty alot of it had to do with overall talent at key positions. To me this season felt alot like thos of the prior decade of NCSU basketball, in which a group of lifeless players were paraded out onto the court and playing in a scheme that was doomed from the very gitgo.
At unc and Duke I can see how players with NBA potential would want to come back because of what, and more importantly WHO, they’re playing for. It actually means something special to them. That no longer holds true for The Two Time National Champion Wolfpack of NC State University. All of the momentum and tradition that was built by the former greats at NCSU has been discarded and forgotten, it’s been so mismanaged that even our very own young Wolfpack fans can’t even connect with it anymore. I blame this on administration for…rolling over to the NCAA in the 90’s and punishing themselves more severely than was ever necessary…shunning Jim Valvano, and in the meantime loosing all rights to be connected to a legend that means even more today than did back then…hiring a young coach with promise, then idly watching and allowing him to steer this BB program so far away from it’s previous course that it has now unrecognizable to anyone who isn’t wearing an adult diaper…in the end leaving themselves no options but to hire a coach without any college coaching experience…and blah, blah, blah and so on, and so forth…here we are today…back at square one, all is lost and there is nothing left to draw upon.
^Just to add to that…
It’s kind of ironic, but up until just two years ago, if you were a HS kid with dreams of playing in the NBA, NC State was probably the last consideration on your list. Now though, it seems like the perfect quick stopping off point to spend a year of your young lifetime, without getting too attached or having any regrets about leaving, and it has it’s very own, built in, connection to that next level.
If I was him, and there was guaranteed money, I’d leave so that I could at least get paid to have this bad of a season on the team I play for.
“He won’t play in the NBA next year, will be in development league.”
Yea, and that league is called the ACC, and the school he will be playing for is called NC State. It will be the JJ show. Watch me score 40 and lose by 20. It’ll be the same sorry show over and over again, just as we saw this year.
I’ve said this before, so forgive me for repeating myself. But a drafting-system like MLB would do the NBA a lot of good. Let the players like Mayo and Beasley go pro right out of high school. But make the players who do go to college at least commit to a certain amount of time before they can bolt.
You can argue whether that should be two years or three, but colleges are making a commitment to those guys and those guys would do well to make at least some sort of commitment to college.
I find it amazing that there are quite a few folks who apparently are tired of having JJ around. I can simply find no logic in that line of thinking.
He was our best player. Period.
He was the only guy who still gave a crap IN THE ACC TOURNAMENT, for God’s sakes.
Any damage to the egos of other players is the fault of those players and/or the coaching staff… but if you want to win championships, you simply have to get top-notch talent. Sure, it’s nice when you’re lucky enough to get such talent, and to have them stay for 3-4 years, but if you only get one or two, you damn well better make hay for those 1-2 years.
And the thoughts of “we need more Corchiani’s and Monroe’s” are a bit silly to me. You mean we need more guys who leave school as the NCAA’s career assist leader or your school’s all-time leading scorer? Well, no $*&^, Sherlock. To get those guys, you have to have coaches who can identify that kind of talent, sign it, and develop it. We haven’t had that kind of coaching staff in 18 years, and we still don’t have it.
^ Hear, hear.
Let the NBA draft any HS or HS + 3yr kid they want. There is no submitting your name for the draft, there’s just a draft. If a kid likes his spot, go. If a kid doesn’t, don’t go. Get the NCAA out of the business of regulating draft participation and, at the same time, make the kids that do go to college into students that must meet academic requirements b/c they’re going to be there for a while.
FWIW, it sounds like Stern wants a 20yr age limit (up from 19). Not perfect, but a step in the right direction.
Noah - colleges don’t have to make a commitment to them. Their scoly can be non-renewed at any time. Obviously, you want guys like Hansboro and Hodge back, you want Mayo and Beasley back, but - the schools don’t technically owe them a 4 year commitment.
chop, you are right. In reality the universities do not even owe these kids a second season, much less four years. But I don’t think anyone would be happy if it ever eroded to a point where it was ALL about performance on the court. Plus, we’re concerned mainly with NC State and for crying out loud it is the university that thinks it has go by a totally different set of standards then everyone else. Even if what you said ever became the norm in college BB, NC State would hold out for twenty or thirty years and fall further behind the curve, before it ever followed suit.
Sad thing is, the egg heads in charge up there in Raleigh honestly believe that they are doing something that is just sooooo righteous that we, the fans, should be proud of them and the university.
They have ruined what was once one of the elite college BB programs in the country, they’re turning the university into a giant commuter school with no soul, and the fact of the of the matter is that they just plain S…U…C…K OUT LOUD!!! in general.
haze, the system you’re talking about is the one I’m a fan of. It’s the best system for the players, for the colleges and for the NBA.
So naturally, it has no shot.
If JJ returns we’ll continue to be a Chevy with wagon wheels.
If he goes, we’ll struggle to regain last year’s form; and JJ will slink and shrink to the NBadL.
Can we just forfeit the next season, let the staff play golf all year, and wait to 2009?
Redfred2-You made some very vaild points in your statements-I’m in the same boat with you about this Admin.-this is not the same type of athletic programs State produce in the past-not being very competitve on a regular basis(hope this changes in football-it will I think)Lee is not the only one to blame,it go even higher-you know it and I know it.Someone said if the money dries up ,then you will see some change-I think so as well.Let’s hope Sid finds some help with this team in the offseason(OH-said to much).-GO TIGERS!!!!!!
turfpack, thanks for the compliment, but Lee Fowler isn’t to blame anymore than the long line of like thinking pin heads that preceeded him. Lee Fowler is a great fit in Raleigh, just like ” “, the proverbial “class act” himself, was a great fit in Raleigh.
Let’s just hope that TOB is experienced enough, and enough of his own man, that he doesn’t fall prey to the mundane think tank that is NC State University and the NC State Athletics Department. Before TOB had even committed to being the HC of the Wolfpack football program he said that he thought that NC State was the perfect place for him to coach and I can certainly see why he’d think that. NCSU has some of the greatest fans on the planet, nice new facilities, and an administration that doesn’t have a clue about what a good employee really is, or really is not.
I’m sure TOB is here for all of the right reasons, but I ask you, who wouldn’t want that job?
Just to throw a what if in there. Do you think the UNCObserver is hinting Hicks is going pro because they want him to? Not saying him staying would be great for us or bad for us, but I always see conspiracy when I read media stuff. (2 decades in the media will do that to you.)
^Maybe they also brainwashed Lowe into forgetting how to coach.
I doubt there’s any conspiracy here. I think J.J. has probably been dreaming of the NBA for a few years and this is his first possible opportunity to go, so he’s going.
Mayo is stayin and his upside is 10xs that of jj
ky, but Mayo isn’t at NCSU.
The people here would be telling Mayo that he is a absolute idiot for not going pro at his very first opportunity. Yep, according to many Wolfpack fans going pro is ALWAYS smarter and better than playing BB for NC State, but maybe for fans and players elsewhere in the country, it isn’t always about the money or so cut and dry.