Here’s the grim reality. Res ipsa loquitor - the thing speaks for itself. One footnote - Georgia Tech and Miami just replaced their athletic directors.
6. Wake Forest
12. Florida State
14. Virginia
20. Duke
22. UNC
32. Boston College
33(T). Clemson
33(T). Virginia Tech
36. Maryland
89. NC State
118. Georgia Tech
118(T). Miami
Wow. Very sobering.
And inexcusable.
Nice job Lee.
89th? Someone is being generous.
Better than I thought.
Maybe if we drop down to compete in the Food Lion Cup we’ll rise higher in the standings.
As I’ve said time and time again, until our facilities reach the level of ultra-supreme-space-age superiority, we cannot hope to compete with the Wake Forests of the world.
nice RAWFS^
that is just sad! Lee should be shown the door.
Lee Fowler IS THE PROBLEM!!!! Get a good AD and a lot will change! Lee, I wish you read these boards and would get a clue and move the fuck on. Nobody likes you, you suck, hit the road you alcoholic hillbilly lookin’ jerk.
I just tried fireleefowler.com. Shockingly, it’s not there yet. But if I weren’t so cheap and lazy…
This year I reduced my WPC pledge by over 50% from last year. This after 20+ years of steadily increased giving. I cannot continue to fund university-wide failure in athletics. Program success is obviously not a priority anymore. It appears the only metric is positive cash flow. Jed can get his money from others, he won’t be getting nearly as much from me.
Like PackinRussia said, we cannot expect to compete w/ the Wake Forest’s of the world until we get better facilities. Their success has nothing to do w/ their AD.
BJD: Nice use of snarky sarcasm, my good man!
I wanted to see the trend
Ranking from most recent to oldest 89,44,34,51,39,43
That is an average of 50 with a trend of getting worse.
Now someone explain why that uselss bag of flesh known as our athletic director is still around?
The current situation is precisely the reason LTRs were such a brilliant idea by the athletics administration: it prevents any possibility of an organized, overwhelming coup.
People — like myself — who have invested so very much of their disposable income into LTRs for six or seven years are unwilling — or in my case, since I can only afford the minimum support levels, unable — to sacrifice LTRs and season tickets to force any kind of positive change around here.
We genuinely love our school but our greatest strength has proven our greatest weakness: we’re intensely loyal, to a fault.
(in my best Mo the Bartender voice) Good….GOD!
LTRs or LF
Which is worse for NCSU?
‘ . . . Georgia Tech and Miami just replaced their athletic directors.”
We should be so lucky! It just infuriates me how the chancellor, BOT and “influential” alumni can see all the millions of dollars in pledges and contributions coming from alumni and fans, and know that the WPC has one of the largest memberships in the country for an organization of its type, and still not support Wolfpack athletics to the hilt. Seems to me that there is a fiduciary breach on their part!
I can only afford the minimum support levels, unable — to sacrifice LTRs and season tickets to force any kind of positive change around here
You bring up a very interesting point: what are the finances of the AD and the WPC going to look like after the majority of LTRs are paid off in four or five years. I realize that the LTRs are ostensibly for retirement of capital debt, but I bet when the LTR funds begin to dry up that something new and equally expensive will come along.
RAWFS,
This has always been a concern of mine as well, from Day One. At present situation, demand for football season tickets doesn’t warrant further expansion — contrary to the perception, we’re seldom at capacity in C-F — meaning there will be declining growth in LTR revenue as LTRs max out. I’ve always believed — feared — that the only way to increase revenues once the majority of LTRs are laregly paid-off over the next five years, will be to raise season ticket prices and sharply increase WPC dues every year.
As for basketball, we got suckered — bullied, rather — into building an arena to get a hockey team that is about 5,000 over the capacity we could ever consistently fill for basketball. We were better off with a facility in tune with what Maryland and Virginia built rather than the RBC.
For 15 years we’ve been told that the only way to win is to open our wallets so we could build, build, build. We’ve done that, yet all we’ve done for 15 years is lose, lose, lose.
NCSU has to be the worst athletics dept in the country. We are like #5 in Moneys given to the university, thanks to bobby purcell. And the 5 in front of and behind us are all perennial top 25 powerhouses and we are mired in the 80’s!!! you have got to be kidding me.
LRM: Amen, brother!
You guys are missing the point. It is not about wins and losses, or where we finish in the Sears Cup. It is about nice, new shiny facilities that will attract student-athletes.
packbackr04… seriously, folks at the school are stuck in the Jimmy V 80’s years.. time to move on and up, but it ain’t gonna happen with Jed in control.
Truely inexcusable IMO. Here is my perspective as a State alum and a former ftball season ticket holder. I did not drop my tickets and support because of this (but I might now) but because my 2 oldest kids (although former State fans) both chose to attend UVa (smarthy bastards I think they were once called here).
I joined the UVa Athletics Foundation to get football tickets and a tailgate parking pass so I could have a chance to at least see my sons a couple of times a year at a tailgate (you parents of college age kids know what I mean). Before my kids went there I really knew little about UVa other than beating them during our 83 run when they were a top seed. OK here’s what doesn’t make sense to me:
1. I pay $1,250 per year to their foundation. This puts me up there far enough where I get 40 yard line seats and a parking pass. (Will you LTR guys compare that to State?)
2. They have a nice stadium, but nowhere near as impressive as ours. In fact their facilities as a whole seem much less than ours to me.
3. They have half the students we have.
4. It is one of the hardest public universities to get admitted to. Of course they have to have athletes, but still?
5. When I gave them the first yearly $1,250 (which I thought was a pretty minor amount - especially compared to their damn tuition) I got a personal call from an associate director. He even invited me to come by the next time I was up there to pick my seats. I thought “yeah right”, but my wife and stopped in on a lark. He came out and took us in his office, talked to us for 30 min, gave me his personal phone number, let me pick my seats, and then called me later and offered me better seats that had come open. (like me he is a State grad BTW).
They seem so much more casual about athletics than we do, but still overall they are kicking our ass in most sports. (Hell they haven’t got a sports blog even in SFN’s league)
How is this?
great post whitefang and this also goes to Wake Forest. if small Wake Forest can win like they have with a smaller Alum base that we have, it’s inexcusable that we can’t be competitive.
“As for basketball, we got suckered — bullied, rather — into building an arena to get a hockey team that is about 5,000 over the capacity we could ever consistently fill for basketball. We were better off with a facility in tune with what Maryland and Virginia built rather than the RBC.”
Level 3 should be closed and curtained for most basketball games. It should be opened for the bigger games on a single game ticket or included in mini-packs.
“Georgia Tech and Miami just replaced their athletic directors”
So did Florida State, correct?
“12. Florida State”
Wonder if he wants a job?
How is this?
There facilities are better than ours. Only way to explain it. Facilities = success.
We should replace Fowler with a lock of T-Ferg’s hair.
FSU’s AD was Dave Hart. He came to FSU from ECU.
Dare I say it, but do you guys that that Chuck Amato would be a good athletic director?
Whitefang’s post brings up an interesting point about quality vs. quantity of donors as it relates to potential “leverage” in a fanbase.
While Bobby Purcell and the WPC deserve major kudos for getting us to 20k donors, there’s an unintended side effect that as donors our “power” is now diluted. A school like UVA has less donors who give more money and those people, as evidenced by Whitefang’s anecdote, are the ones who get more personal service and their opinion probably matters more.
This is NOT a knock on the WPC. They truly do treat the $100 donor the same as the $100k donor.
But short of some massive grassroots action and uprising, change in the athletic department at State is still concentrated in just a few hands. Judging by the results we see on the field in all sports, many of those hands aren’t demanding excellence.
We’ve built a system where 20k people are paying for crap, but few have the guts to take the action that would force change. And that certainly includes myself. I am super-pissed about the state of athletics at State, but I am not about to lose my WPC priority. That’s just the way it is.
Put another way, Jed must have some people fooled.
RAWFS,
Yes. I think Chuck was born to be an AD, and I think he would have been an incredible one here, in fact.
“Yes. I think Chuck was born to be an AD, and I think he would have been an incredible one here, in fact.”
That’s sarcasmr, right?
Amato, managing other coaches, are you serious?
BJD: I agree with Trout. Amato also had horrible relationships (he was offensive by any reasonable standard - to people who expect more than just “reasonable”). Charlie Cobb is who we want at AD.
850 the buzz was discussing ncs athletics this am.recommendation–join cusa for we can’t compete with the unc’s and duke’s for we have really destroyed the program over the last 20 years.also stated head coach at state may be the least desirable in div1.
BJD: That is absolute nonsense.
Lee was hired on Sept 5, 2000. So at the end of this school year, he will have been with NC State for 8 full athletic seasons.
Here is how we have done in the Director’s Cup, compared with other ACC schools, over that timeframe:
2001:
15 UNC
16 Duke
30 UVa
33 Wake
34 Clemson
35 FSU
40 MD
56 NC State
61 GT
2002:
4 UNC
26 Clemson
27 UVa
30 Duke
39 FSU
42 Wake
44 MD
46 NC State
50 GT
2003:
8 UNC
19 UVa
21 Duke
22 MD
32 Wake
38 FSU
43 NC State
48 Clemson
53 GT
2004:
7 UNC
18 Duke
22 FSU
24 MD
30 UVa
31 GT
39 NC State
42 Clemson
43 Wake
2005:
5 Duke
9 UNC
13 UVA
28 MD
30 FSU
31 GT
37 Wake
49 Miami
51 NC State
52 Clemson
58 VT
2006:
4 UNC
8 Duke
17 FSU
26 UVA
27 MD
34 NC State
39 Clemson
42 Miami
44 Wake
45 VT
50 GT
51 BC
2007:
3 UNC
11 Duke
13 UVa
15 FSU
23 Wake
36 Clemson
40 MD
44 NC State
46 GT
48 VT
58 BC
59 Miami
Everytime I think of how bad it is here, I always console myself with the fact that at least we ain’t Clemson.
I understand the dilemma of withholding funds for athletics. It seems counterproductive. It looks like Purcell has done a great job too on his end.
Personally my approach has been when called for academic money is to express my displeasure then with the state of the athletic programs. I even mention people by name (I have even said, “call me back when you get rid of that idiot Fowler”). Of course they try to remind me that the money is for the school of engineering not athletics. This may piss some of you off, but I am at the point in my life (over 30 years after graduating in engineering) that I really don’t give a rat’s ass about the engineering school and I tell them that. As an alumnus I get fired up about giving money to my school for sports (Yeah I know I am a sorry SOB, but that is the way it is) I have even gone so far in years past to ask the caller to promise me we’ll beat UNC at SOMETHING. Of course the student on the phone did and I did donate at the time.
But no more. I actually take pleasure in turning them down and politely telling them why. Because at the end of the day, Oblinger and the BOT are the ones that can make a change. I foolishly hold out hope that if this happens enough they understand that there are probably a lot more SOB’s like me who give to academics based on the pride they have in the athletic teams.
Unless a mass coup could be organized, individual efforts are pointless, and in fact counter-productive. Here’s an example:
When we graduated from college six years ago, six of us very eagerly and excitedly got 12 LTRs together. $1,500 for each LTR, $300 State-level WPC dues and at the time, $400 for a pair of season tickets. Three of those have since given up their six LTRs, each for their own, entirely plausible reasons. Including LTRs, WPC dues, and season tickets, I pay around $1,200 per year right now for the “right” to attend seven home games (actually, five or six until people stop getting married).
So, the WPC actually benefits from the original LTR holders giving up their rights, because they easily turn around and re-sell those same seats for the increased price — is it up to $2,500 each now (as prices went up, we were grandfathered in, of course)?
Basically, it turned out that all my buddies did was pay three times the amount for a few years of season tickets.
Like I said, brilliant business initiative on the part of our administration.
Bill Cowher for AD!
“Dare I say it, but do you guys that that Chuck Amato would be a good athletic director?”
From purely a management perspective, I think no. He clearly demonstrated that he could not handle the “people factors” as head football coach, which would be much more necessary as AD. I love his enthusiasm. But I’m afraid that his ego would get in the way of good decision-making.
BTW Whitefang, I’m 40 years out of the engineering school and feel the same as you. Getting this adminstration to do anything good in athletics is like pushing up a rope!
“Dare I say it, but do you guys that that Chuck Amato would be a good athletic director?”
Good lord, no. The name you are looking for is Charlie Cobb.
The name you are looking for is Charlie Cobb.
That’s actually a better one. But could Charlie succeed here with the current administration in place?
For all we known they’d put Nora Finch in the big chair.
How about Bobby Purcell?
“But could Charlie succeed here with the current administration in place?”
Of course. Oblinger is not a hindrance. He just isn’t being proactive when dealing with the current turd.
Cobb would be OK by me.
So our RPI is better than our Sears Cup ranking?
Meaning that our bball program is actually STRONGER than our average athletics program?
Jeebus…
You need someone who knows how to run a multi-million dollar business which is what college athletics is now. Contrary to the whining UNC fans do about Dick Baddour, he is very good at running the business side of the athletic department just as long as he never, ever has sole control over a football or basketball coaching hire again.
I was in school with Charlie and agree that he would be a great choice. He’s a natural fit for the job.
In theory, there is probably some question over whether he would take it or not. Why? Because my impression has always been that the non-athletic side of our administration, including the BofT, Chancellor, etc, don’t have a true commitment to having a winning athletic program. Otherwise, why keep Jed around when his track record is abysmal?
Factors like that may keep a Charlie Cobb away one day.
why in the hell would charlie Cobb leave Boone? hes tucked away in the beautiful NC mountains, with a gorgoues campus, and terrific chancellor in Ken Peacock. The weather is perfect, the golf is great, the environment is more laid back. He is in an athletic dept with 3 national championships, which is 1 for every yr since hes been there. ive seen more App bumper sticker and license plates since he arrived on campus there than any other school. Hell they even have billboards in eastern NC for App. I havent seen a NCSU billboard in ages! why would he ever come BACK to raleigh and get mired in the mess that has been brewing in raleigh since 1989?
I think the only way Fowler leaves office is a heart attack. This is why I don’t expect a national championship in my lifetime, and I’m not that old.
“why in the hell would charlie Cobb leave Boone?”
Back a Brinks truck up to his garage door, and he would certainly consider a move to a more prominent and lucrative position. He isn’t succeeding like he is for being stupid.
Whitefang: I feel your pain. My oldest child (female), graduated from UNC-CH in may of 2007; my youngest child (female), has been accepted to UNC-CH for the 2008-2009 school year. Needless to say, they both grew up State fans but they both said they worked like trojans in high school and they both decided to accept an invitation to the most difficult school to attend. Oblinger and co. need to understand that kids this day and time want to get in the most difficult school they can with the best athletic program.
ASU’s applications have gone from the 7500-10,000 range to 20,000 plus solely due to THREE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. Is anyone out there listening, i.e. JED.
Imagine this, you are a 1979 grad of NCSU. You have witnessed an NCAA baksetball championship in 1974. Your brother played football for Lew HOLTZ at State from 73-77, you witnessed the 83 championship in basketball and your own two children decided to attend UNC-CH. Go figure.
I beleive Bill Cower or Bobby Knight would be a an excellent AD. It doesn’t matter though because all the media, the NCAA, and the referees despise NC State and what it stands for. Until we can show everybody we have an excellent athletics dept we are not going to get the recruits for either football or basketball. The recruits will go to wither Duke or the other blue team. The only way this going to change is to get an AD and a Chancellor who loves sports. The only way to hurt them is to start boycotting the games and hurt them in the pocket.
ushum
Yes it is Ryan
and i feel your pain with the athletic dept brother…we are an absolute joke at the moment…thank God that Tom O’Brien was interested in our job and contacted our agents…
Look at those yearly standings. The highest a technical school was in the last so many years in the ACC in Sears Cup points was Clemson in 2002 at 2nd. OTher than that it is 2001 with Clemson at 5. The rest is Clemson/Tech/State at 6th a couple of times.
The bottom line is that technical schools traditionally don’t have enough programs to hide the “nonscholarly” of the scholar athletes.
That list is dominated year and year out by traditionally liberal arts schools.
NOW… I’m not taking up for Fowler because I’ve been screaming for his head for years. Regardless of his blatant incompetence he’s an arrogant asshole who needs a punch in the nose to humble him.
I just thought I’d point out that interesting bit of information one could gather from those statistics.
The college of engineering is no longer the only college on campus, there ARE places to hide athletes.
Ryan absolutely is a great guy. Coincidentally Ryan called me about an hour after I made my earlier post today to discuss fb parking this fall at UVa. Being a State alum and having some connections in Raleigh too (as you probably know) we ended up talking a while about the situation there. Of course he couldn’t and wouldn’t say anything “out of school”, but one thing he did say was how State has such really great and passionate fans. And damn we do.
Astral, can a group of us go “scare the crap” out of Fowler to hasten that heart attack???? Catch him in the dark and say “boo” or something?
cHARLIE cOBB sHOULD bE tHE nEXT aTHLETIC dIRECTOR. hE hAS dONE a gREAT jOB aT hAPPY aPPY. hE’LL rUN rINGS aROUND “cOACH i kNOW bASKETBALL fOWLER.”
i’LL bE sHARING tHINGS i kNOW iN tHE nEAR fUTURE.
Agree, Bill Cowher for AD!
The Chair of the BOT is McQueen Campbell of Campbell Property Group in Raleigh. Send him a letter with some logic in it, not an emotional dumb ass rant on BB.
The university must begin to think as athletics as a way to raise the stature of the school, attract more and better students, maintain alumni relations, and show the outside world our goal is to compete at the highest level. The current leaders certainly aren’t motivated to push for excellence in athletics and don’t seem to understand the benefits of athletic excellence. I think they are focused on the risk of attempting to achieve excellence and not the benefits. I think it is still hangover from 20 years ago.
Other schools have had huge problems within their athletic departments. But they don’t hand their head for 20 years and just try to scape by. I am embarassed to say our leaders have totally failed to try to be successful in an area where we can succeed. Oblinger can’t even make himself fire the student affairs guy, much less Fowler. How could NCSU had a guy run the school that majored in food science. We need a smart engineer running things, not some DA weak leader that majored in food science. Why not just major in home ec at ECU.
Whitefangs: You bring up a great point about our passionate fans. Essentially we were the ones who attracted the interesting of Tom O’Brien with our support of our programs and the facilities we were built. Our AD deserves almost zero credit for that hire. Amazingly enough, it our AD who has criticized our fanbase on numerous occasions.
$1250 annually for 40 yard line seats? You must be in the first few rows. UVa is reseating their stadium this year and donation requirements have gone way up.
Group A $6200 minimum, two levels w/ highest at $22,600+
Group B $2500-$6199
Group C $100-$2499
Group D non-donor-$100
See link below for where this gets you seats.
UVa fans did get off relatively cheap compared to our lifetime rights holders. However, UVa has for many years received very, very large donations to support their athletic programs. Donations as much as $25 million, John Grisham moved to C’ville and made a huge donation for their baseball stadium.
http://www.virginiasports.com/fls/17800/ticketOffice/pdf/VAFSeating.jpg?DB_OEM_ID=17800
Might add more on Fowler after I get to witness Coach K’s 800th win. Take away P. Rivers and Julius Hodge and NC State would have accomplished nothing over the Lee Fowler era.
Still wish there was an edit feature here…or I guess I could proofread what I type.
I think a letter writing/email campaign should be started. If someone has the names of the appropriate people to contact along with address and or email, please post or provide a link to them. It’s time for LF to go and the rank and file may to be the ones to start the discussion.
yes get those names and email addies out enough please
The Sears numbers just point out what many have known for a while. We are not heading in a good direction as an athletics program. We have great fans. Loyal alumni. Have given $ until it hurts and helped pay for better facilities. We have nothing to show for it. It is time to say enough. 7+ years is more than enough to see a trend.
This should be a wake up call for our athletic department. There is absolutely no excuse to be so low in the Sears Cup standings. We need better head coaches and assistant coaches that can get the job done. It all starts with coaching and recruiting, PERIOD! Our teams have the Wolfpack Nation support through the Wolfpack Club. Our support and fanbase deserve better!!
The problem is less Lee Fowler than our idiotic - yes, I said idiotic and meant it - Board of Trustees, who extended Fowler’s contract recently for another FIVE years.
When our own BOT is a willing participant in Fowler serving up these athletic shit sandwiches every year, why wouldn’t Fowler take the big bucks to do so? It’s not like the SEC is lining up to hire him. That dream died long ago.
And even if we did get rid of Fowler, the BOT idiots would simply promote Nora Lynn Finch, who is even more staggeringly inept and incompetent, in my opinion, than Lee Fowler is.