Ever since I decided to write off the 2007-08 season as a learning experience for Sid and staff, things have continued in their perilous course. Clemson and UNC each went on huge scoring runs to finish off the Pack at home, leaving us at 4-8 and on the outside of the NIT bubble. I don’t feel any worse about the status of the program because it’s exactly what I expected - otherwise, I never would have published the “writing off” post.
So, where do we go from here? It’s certainly possible that NC State loses out and ends its season on ACCT Thursday (with a losing record overall). It’s probably equally likely that the Pack ekes out 2 more wins, and maybe gets to ACCT Friday, setting up a certain NIT invite. Although the former sounds awful (and the thought of enduring such a stretch makes me cringe), there could be a silver lining.
A “disaster season” would make certain that no staff member or player takes any shred of validation or ego into the offseason. It will be absolutely clear that their attitude, offseason conditioning, and overall approach need a serious overhaul. No consecutive post-season bids to hang one’s hat on. No sliver of respectability. No hiding from the cold, hard truth. No delusions about being “that close” or “we were just unlucky.”
One needs only to look back to the disaster that was his 5th season. Although most of us hated the Princeton system, at least it was unavoidable that something major had to change - and it did. NOTE: This is not free license to turn this into a Sendek thread - just illustrating how disaster can be the impetus for change.
We have to accept that this team is not going to come together. 2 more weeks of practice won’t help much. The awful chemistry apparent through the entire season won’t be fixed at this late date. Players won’t magically get into shape, either physically or mentally. Yes, I’d like to watch another NIT run - I’m a junkie, and I want to see more (and better) Pack hoops. But I don’t think it would do anything positive for the program.
Please don’t create strawman arguments - this is a way to find a silver lining only. I don’t want NC State to lose out. I certainly hate the thought of Gavin Grant’s season ending like that. I will watch every game, and I will cheer for unexpected victories. if we get an NIT bid, we certainly should accept it.
Just some food for thought as the week comes to a close.
I hate to be a pessimist but can next year be any better? Still no star PG, will Degand be ready? Does JJ go pro? Does Costner? (Don’t laugh- I’ve heard he’s considering it).
Good points.
Related question (especially if losses mount)– is this the year they begin playing the 3rd postseason tournament?
Dr. BP -
The 16 team College Basketball Invitational starts this year.
Yes it is, the CBI Classic
http://www.gazellegroup.com/cbi/index_main.htm
Never expected it to be an option 3 months ago, not even sure what to think about it.
I think the NIT would be great experience for the team. Everyone except Grant & possibly JJ will be back. They all need as much experience as possible. Speaking of next season, what’s the possibility of Fells sliding to the 3 spot, Farnold playing the 2 & Javi the point? Out other options are Thomas,Horner or CJ Williams starting at the 3. I like all 3 players, but each have issues weather it’s coming off an injury, quickness, or being a true frosh.
At the top of the list, State should consider finding a new strength & conditioning coach or at least demanding a new S&C regime.
Wonder if we could meet the old herbivore in the NIT? That’d be something more for the N&O to beat us up with.
^ I would hope we say no to an invitation if it comes to that.
How to make the most of the end of the season?
1. Get Tracy Smith on the floor as much as is practical for meaningful minutes in order to identify what he needs to work on over the summer. In other words, accelerate his learning curve because he’s going to need to be a key player next year. I like a lot of what I see from him so far, but he needs to refine his skills. By getting gamespeed competition now and working on his fundamentals over the offseason, he could well become a major threat.
2. Tell certain players that they are playing for their scholarships. You all know who they are, the comments area of this board is full of the names. Put up or pack up. No more chit-chats, no more gentle reminders. Earn the uniform or turn it back in.
3. Tell Javi G to continue to develop his offense and to keep working hard on defense. Let’s keep in mind that he was supposed to be an understudy this year and learn while watching a lot more than he has. He has responded and he has a competitor’s attitude. He’s earned my respect and I think that this kid may well be a very serviceable PG sooner than we might think.
4. Inform the team that conditioning programs will be evaluated and enhanced. In other words, boys, bring your running shoes and puke buckets, because if you want to play on my team you’re going to be in tip top shape or you’re going to watch the game from the sidelines and I am going to recruit your replacement.
For a start.
” Tell certain players that they are playing for their scholarships. You all know who they are, the comments area of this board is full of the names. Put up or pack up. No more chit-chats, no more gentle reminders. Earn the uniform or turn it back in.”
great point, this CAN NOT be overstated. these kids act like we all owe them something, not the other way around. and that is wrong. WPC and the money paid by fans for tickets to games allows these kids to get a free education!! so in theory, they owe us! i would like nothing more than to hear about one or two “defections” in this offseason.
^^
Starting with Costner…
No extra games or off season conditioning is going to change “attitude”. ass time on the bench or threaten to pull the scholly is the only way to break through with this guy.
I got nauseated watching him stand around while Hazbro continuously beat us and dunked on us.
like who? Costner? Get real, he’s one of the most talented players we have & still has 2 more years to play for us. I suspect he’ll come back with a vengence. Who else, Johnson? He already xfered once, doubtful he’ll do it again. Every great team needs vetern players to bring along the frosh & be outstanding backups. Trev, Marques, Horner can all be important players for the team without being the most talented.
Get real?
Have you watched any games this year? Damn…what team were you watching? Potential and execution are not mutually inclusive.
Remind me again of this talented players stats this season and I’ll reconsider. Once you actually see them, I think you’ll understand my position better.
packgrad- have they shown that AT ALL this WHOLE year!?
I don’t buy the argument that the NIT is good experience, so I just don’t see how it’s a silver lining.
Look at the past 10 winners:
2007-West Virginia
2006-South Carolina
2005-South Carolina
2004-Michigan
2003-St. John’s
2002-Memphis
2001-Tulsa
2000-Wake Forest
1999-California
1998-Minnesota
Only Memphis in 2003, St. John’s in 2002, and Wake in 2001 followed up its NIT Championship season with a trip to the NCAAT the following season. Talk about a program that fell harder than us, Michigan last went in 1998.
I think this team, with the effort they’ve shown, shouldn’t get the “reward” of an NIT bid.
^^ I would hope we say no to an invitation if it comes to that.
Although I mostly agreed with the rest of your post, RAWFS, I just can’t go along with that one. This is college basketball, and these kids should have the opportunity to experience postseason play as much as possible. I know we don’t like not getting to the Dance or NIT, but for the kid’s sake, I don’t think we would turn down an opportunity to play in ANY postseason event. Same could be said for lower tier bowl games in football. In addition, post-season play brings in $$ for the program, so I seriously doubt we would decline any invite.
pulling MJs scholly would be totally unethical. the staff ’should f*cking better known better’ - as vince vega elloquently put it - and maybe he’ll never see a bunch of playing time. but the staff evaluated the kid and gave him the scholly, they should stick to their word. i wonder if a guy like dennis horner, who seems ill-suited to lowe’s philosophy and considering johnny thomas and cj willaims were recruited by lowe at the same position, would opt to transfer out.
i agree with packgrad93 about costner. everyone knows he’s talented. the staff must find a way to get more out of his talent than the season. i bet they can, too. you have to coach motivation in college, no one draws a paycheck.
“At the top of the list, State should consider finding a new strength & conditioning coach or at least demanding a new S&C regime.”
I think this coach has been w/ the b’ball team forever. However, I think he’s shared w/ a few other teams - I’m not sure though.
Our team totally failed it’s critical 3 game test - going 0-3 when we could only afford to go 1-2 at worst.
I really don’t have a lot to add other than hopefully we’ll see some turnover on the staff. Hopefully, staff and players alike will take the offseason somewhat seriously, instead of thinking that we’ll be good by the time the ball is thrown up.
I am in agreement with this.
Don’t misunderstand my position on Costner fellas. I like the kid and think he has bucket-loads of talent, but the harsh truth is he has been an abject failure this season.
Jay Bilas (the asshat) even commented (ad nausea) that Costner was AWOL in the UNX game (and several others this season). I distinctly recall three occasions when Hazbro ran by (read: over) his man and Costner did nothing but stand there and watch.
…and he needs to be motivated?
Backside help anyone? That’s a fundamental my friends.
Too much talent to bother when your teammate needs help I suppose.
Give me a f’ing break. After his “talented” season last year, Costner is the biggest underachiever on the team this season - no question if you look at his stats.
As stated earlier: Earn the damn uniform or turn it in -regardless of your damn talent.
9 pts, 5 boards, 2 assists in < 26 min/game isn’t awful.
& yes, Johnson, Trev & Horner have all showed they could be valuable back-ups & they’re not upper classmen yet. Look at Q for unc, a senior coming in & doing a respectable job.
I think it would be short-sighted to turn down an NIT or even CBIC bid — sort of like turning down a bowl, you could lose a lot of free organized practice time (assuming State advances a few games).
One thing I think all the top coaches have in common is that most of their coaching gets done in practice … come game time, yes, they make adjustments, etc., but even so you can only make adjustments if the team is prepared to execute them. Players don’t think on the court, they do. The fundamentals (both individual and team/strategic) are drilled in before the tap. Some of this has to take place in game play (hence the OOC schedules) but the core has to take place in practice.
I doubt there are many (if any) successful examples of a coach installing a zone in a game by drawing it up at half time … there has to be some underlying drills, instruction, zone principles, etc. built into the team in order for them to grasp and effect the adjustment.
That looks to me to be an area where Lowe & Co. need significant improvement, having their guys prepared on game day to implement the game plan and to implement adjustments as needed. Sometimes I have thought State looks slow to react not due to lack of effort but because the players are so utterly mechanical. Deep in the season, they often seem to be still thinking through each step rather than automatically taking each step in a flow. This especially shows in the half-court offense at times, rebounding and in rotating back on defense. More than almost anything else you can do in basketball, rebounding doesn’t take athleticism (though that certainly helps), it takes well-drilled, fundamental skills.
I also think there is a collective glass jaw issue (to be honest, I thought State players gave up in both Carolina games), but I think some of the initial mistakes that give rise to the punch in the mouth are of the mechanical nature rather than the psychological.
Okay stats for a role player - which Costner isn’t suppose to be. You were just saying how talented he was…
By the way…according to Gamewatcher over on GoPack, Costner had 7 points, 3 rebounds, 1 block, and 0 assists.
Last years ACCT MVP numbers?
Hickson, (a true freshman) had 13 points, 7 rebounds, 2 blocks, and 1 assist.
Again, I like Costner, but he needs to decide if he really wants to play for the Pack next season or with some other team he can truly get motivated for.
Enough said.
Once again, I continue to be baffled by the criticism Costner gets. Criticize staff first, they haven’t motivated or conditioned Costner properly.
Does anyone find it a bit coincidental that you can kind of say the same thing about McCauley too???
I’ve actually heard that both are playing hurt this year. And watching them play, I’d believe it.
Here’s another thing I’d like to see from Sidney next year:
Stop pigeon-holing players to positions. Guys like Grant and Fells are big enough to defend a lot of 4s on this level. You can totally change the make-up and dynamic of this team by playing Grant at the 4 spot. We blew that shot this year, but hopefully next year, Sidney will find a way to give our opponents more confusing looks rather than the knowledge that you’ll see the same folks at the 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 spots.
New strength and conditioning coach and program is imperative. Looking back over the last 20 years, has any other team had the myriad of injuries we’ve had? The talking heads say these things go in cycles, but the cycles aren’t supposed to be that long.
It makes me wonder about our entire conditioning regimen.
Ooops. Should be “are” imperative. My bad. Don’t want to get mistaken for packpassion!
costner is talented? you got to be kidding.he needs for someone to get him the ball and then he needs a uncontested shot.he can’t get a shot on his on,can’t rebound ,can’t play defense,can’t handle the ball or pass.where is the talent?
This is a plea…to the fine moderators of this blog, or anyone who reads or posts here who can help:
We need someone, or even a number of people to act as surrogate journalists for those of us interested, no, not just interested, but who absolutely love the Wolfpack.
When a program is floundering as ours is now, we who invest our time, money, and emotional energy deserve to know what the coaching staff is thinking, what the members of that staff identify as problems, what solutions they are pursuing.
The local journalists are a) too disinterested to ever do any real research or digging, interviewing etc, and b) they are simply too lazy to find any answers. It’s much easier to simply theorize and anyalyze from the comforts of the the keyboard than to do any leg work, making calls, do the type of work that dedicated journalists do.
But maybe someone in our community could find out the general perception of our coaches. Some of you have clout, I know it, connections, have ways of finding out the answers to the questions that we all have.
I’m not suggesting a witch hunt. I would never expect or even want a coach quoted, even off the record saying something negative about or current players. I would neither expect or want anything so detailed that it could be damaging in any way…to recruiting, anything.
But perhaps someone could find out, and report in a careful manner, if the staff:
1) believes that our players are poory conditioned
2) has identified poor defense and rebounding as a concern, and if so, do they believe it’s purely personell related or if they will look at their manner of teaching/coaching.
3) plans to stick with the slower paced, NBA style offense as our basic approach into the future
4) believes that the lack of passion/energy on the part of this year’s team is soley personell related, or if they are willing to look at their coaching style or approach as a contributing factor.
I’m sure there are other, better questions. But hopefully someone gets my point. Facing months and months of endless theorizing and speculation, endless back and forth both on the boards and in the community can have a negative effect on the health of the program.
I’m sure that this will elicit a few sarcastic responses, feeble, but expected. But perhaps someone is willing to do some work, and get together with those in charge of this site and offer some carefully worded insight into the thoughts and plans of our staff?
BJD, Thanks for setting the tone and for a place to get go to talk NCSU basketball. RAWFS and others excellent comments.
Just as there is no license to discuss a former coach, I wonder if this thread is going to be enhanced by more recanting of the short comings of individual players. Hasn’t enough been said already?
I like the way RAWFS focused on what needed to be done. All but Grant and perhaps Hickson are who we have to count on. We have good recruits but no Fab 5 of Michigan fame.
Costner is one of the ones we have to work with. Every coach in the country would like to see us start jerking scholarships and if we do we may as well jerk them all and play club basketball.
Costner had a very bad year. God only knows, and He ain’t saying, why. I credit our severe disappointment for the IMO cruel, extreme and excessive comments about Costner. Costner LOOKS slow and LOOKS lazy and LOOKS all that is said about him. Costner is not lazy and with his body type he will never have the ‘chiseled’ look. Costner is not a brother. BTW Hansbro doesn’t have the chiseled look, either.
Ben, Costner, Fells, Gavin all played passive defense last year by design. They failed to make the transition to playing full-tilt-boogie.
It may be that Costner cannot learn to play aggressive D. If he cannot then I assert that NCSU and Lowe owe it to Costner and others like him who were woed by NCSU to come to school here and play basketball, to find a way for them to contribute.
That contribution may be at practice or in bit roles. I would be embarrassed and ashamed if any coach deliberately ran a player off. Work the within the bounds of acceptable training, but never treat a student with anything resembling inhumane treatment.
Now, 2008, LET’S ROCK!!
^There are alot of great comments above.
Here is my philsophical take on the situtation.
I knew coming into this season that there would be many fans expecting X amount of wins, and blah, blah, blah. But really, all I wanted to see was that new spirit of late last season carried over and sustained. I guess the thing that bothers the most and absolutely confuses the hell of me, is that I expected an alum and coach like National Champion point guard Sidney Lowe to recreate and reinstate enthusiam and a love for the program, first and foremost, and from the inside, out. I figured to hell with the X’s and O’s and the W’s and L’s in the start, that would come later, what we need is a new outlook on just who we once WERE, and who NC State still IS. That would start internally, with his players first, no matter how bad, or how good the talent he had inherited, and no matter how many (hard fought) losses it took to rebuild in the beginning of his NC State coaching tenure. It seems I was badly mistaken there though, and that fact is the very hardest pill to swallow thus far.
At the end of last season I felt better overall but I didn’t think we were really ready to seriously challenge anyone for any kind of titles after just a run in the NIT. But, then I started reading the preseason press clippings, and I fell prey like most everyone else did around here.
But back to now, I am admitting right now that Sidney Lowe has not shown to be the coach/person that I thought was returning to his alma mater. He is not the spirited kid that I once saw in an NC State uniform, but seems more like a veteran businessman who has made a living coaching BB.
I hope I’m wrong, I hope he remembers like I do, I hope he knows regardless of the record what we want to see first and foremost in a Wolfpack uniform, whether NC State ever wins another BB game with him as coach or not. If he, of all people, can’t remember those things, then my world just turned a shade dimmer.
66pack
Feb 22nd, 2008 at 5:21 pm
costner is talented? you got to be kidding.he needs for someone to get him the ball and then he needs a uncontested shot.he can’t get a shot on his on,can’t rebound ,can’t play defense,can’t handle the ball or pass.where is the talent?
You must be a new State fan or have a very short memory. Somebody who has it, please post the video of Costner last season grabbing a rebound, dribbling the length of the court, including a behind the back dribble to avoid a defender and dunking over somebody at the other end. He made somebody’s defense look sick. Something we are privileged to is going on with Costner.
^
Something we are NOT privileged to is going on with Costner.
^Speculation or based on a source?
Costner does not play defense and he does not battle for rebounding position. Therefore, he is a tremendous liability.
In regards to the state of the program, I have been most disappointed with the lack of any sort of strategy. I mean, do we even have an identity? Carolina is run and gone. Duke is spread you out and tremendous ball pressure. We are…well…I honestly don’t know what we are. Grant, Fells, and Hickson, the core of our team, are not bad players. In fact, they are each extremely talented in their own ways. However, they have yet to fully click on the same night, and we are getting very little from Costner and Ben Mac. Add to that that our point guard is consistently being beaten by dribble penetration and has limited offensive ability, and there you see the problem.
Our competitors are flying right past us right before our very eyes. How many people thought Wake would have the better year than us? I’d take Wake’s team over ours any day and twice on Sunday, and they have loads of talent coming in.
This is on Sidney’s watch. And that watch is ticking.
Greywolf, I think you are exactly right. Beyond the supposed injury(?) scenario with Costner, and now the rumblings involving an injury to McCauley, I think Lowe made a promise to a promising young HS kid, and told him that he would be the new focus, irregardless. That promise, along with it’s attached inability to change strategies during season, me thinks, has possibly caused more strife than it was worth. Rspecially if we’re on the “one and done” trail.
Speaking of the “one and doners”, did anyone else hear Coach K give his thoughts on that? About how the media is promoting the individual or the latest individual/BB phenom, over the college BB programs themselves, and making this more like the NBA than what it used to be, and was intended to be?
K is absolutely RIGHT!!!
I think most successful teams have that one certain guy who is a sparkplug and can light a fire under his teammates. The Pack obviously doesn’t have that guy on this team. “This guy” is the main addition that we need for next season, but who will fill that role? I hope we find him, because I have discovered that although it can be fun to pull for an underdog, it is absolutely no fun to pull for an underdog who doesn’t appear to be trying very hard.
Lowe has made mistakes, and many, from my viewpoint anyway. So here we are, once again and after a decade, with another “coach in training”. We aren’t going to pull the plug on this anytime soon, and we shouldn’t anyway. It’s like the people who are trying to say that a certain college kid/BB player needs to pack up and leave a program the he was INVITED to join. Like that one kid is somehow the answer to all of our problems. That’s like a car dealership, that can‘t sell any cars to begin with, thinking that firing a mechanic will make them successful.
Sorry but that is an upside down evaluation. NC State didn’t have any real expectations for it’s BB program for almost two entire decades. Then, and mainly for that exact same reason, it had no takers in hiring a new coach when it became necessary to do so. So back to the upside down part, the apathy that runs rampant through the program doesn’t start with, but rather it actually ENDS with, the players.
i think nyc fan made a lot of good points, and redfred, i think you really captured how a lot of fans feel about how the team has carried itself this year … that really is the hardest pill to swallow and it’s simply maddening!
if we lose out, or hell, even if we only win 1 or 2 more games we will more than likely be picked 11th or 12th along w/ virginia heading into next season … that’s EVEN IF HICKSON RETURNS
what’s my point? a lot of the players really seemed to take that prediction to heart and use it as a little motivation during the season … some public humiliation via the media instead of free kool-aid may be helpful as a motivating tool going into next season …
yes, you shouldn’t need that as motivation - but as we’ve seen this season, motivation doesn’t come very easy for some team members(that can include staff, team, managers, who the hell ever you want it to include)
the pack was a hell of a lot more fun to watch and played w/ much more spirit (simply none at times this year) last season … albeit, having a brand new head coach and being picked dead last let fans watch w/ minimal expectations … that said, i think what a lot of fans want to see is some fire and flow - most of all pride in your uniform, teammates, and yourself … don’t think those things have always been there this season like redfred pointed out above
regardless of what happens at the end of this season, whether the team can make a tournament or if hickson leaves, whatever - i just want to start seeing a desire to win and an effort that suggests you have the will to do so
it would be really sad to have a bad season next season, but that doesn’t meant i’ll stop supporting the coach or the team … i just want all out effort … bogged down nba sets or isolation plays or even princeton offenses are fine w/ they’re working or you’re winning … not really worried about the X’s and O’s, the overwhelming concern for me, and perhaps others, seems to be effort and pride, let’s just get back to that PLEASE!!!!!
go pack
I listened to David Glenn on 850 the buzz today and he pointed out that he can not see what Lowe’s “blueprint” is for building a program. I agree with Glenn, unless the blueprint is to struggle to get the ball across the timeline and once over the timeline dribble from side to side from 35 feet out while JJ gets shoved from one side of the lane to the other.
The biggest disappointment for me this year is the lack of adjustments made by Lowe. I really thought Lowe would bring some of Valvano’s blueprint to State. Valvano was the master of adjusting what his team did based on who his competition was. For example, on offense against Duke he concentrated on dribble penetration. On defense, we all remember how he would play a triangle and 2 or box and one to shut down the other teams key players. Lowe has basically played the same offense and defense all season regardless of the opponent or how well the strategy was working. Obviously it hasn’t worked out too good.
Someone on one of the previous threads brought up the definition of insanity being doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Lowe are you insane, or crazy like a fox?
“(Insert past/present NC State BB coach here) has basically played the same offense and defense all season regardless of the opponent or how well the strategy was working.”
I don’t believe that’s a new concept in Raleigh.
This nightmarish season needs to be put out of it’s misery.
I will cheer for unexpected victories.
Around the internets, many are confused about what constitutes a “real fan”. They mistakenly think that objective criticism shows that you are not a real fan. If you predict a loss (based on poor performance), you are not a real fan.
They are horribly wrong. Their definition of being a real fan requires one to disconnect themselves from reality. A real fan makes objective judgements….and still pulls for a win even though it is not expected.
I heard Glenn’s take today and I thought that it was a tad silly to expect to clearly see a “blueprint” when Sidney Lowe has brought in exactly one class of players. And that class was formed late, and didn’t achieve every one of the objectives, despite signing very good players in Hickson and Smith and workable players in Gonzalez.
Right now, State is a hybrid team of two systems. The Lowe system was easier to see last year because he had a reliable point guard that could put on the court what the coaches had planned. Gonzalez was not ready, and he struggled but he’s improved. He’s still improving but he is not where Atsur was, plain and simple.
Judge Sidney in the 2009 season, when he not only has all of his players but the old system players are no longer here.
K and Dean struggled out of the gate. To expect Lowe to build a solid program after one recruiting year is quite frankly ridiculous and Dave Glenn should know better, and if he didn’t should have known that knowledgeable fans would know better.
A quick note: when I said that ‘if NCSU is invited, they should just say no’ I was speaking in reference to the new third tournament, the CBI Classic. Really now, do we want to hear all next year how our team was not good enough for the NIT?
I don’t watch the NBA much anymore, but when did it become the “slow” and “deliberate” league. The shot clock is still there, and it’s of the shorter variety.
I was S I C K and T I R E D of watching players walk the ball across the timeline, disrupting their own momentum and flow as much, or more, than their opponents, back when ” ” was here. It’s fine when you’re changing an overall strategy or you see a mismatch, but I am about at about at wits end with Lowe’s over controlling and over directing EVERY single time down the court. It’s different from ” “, but it’s essentially the same, and it kills any momentum and makes an already inactive group even more lethargic.
Lowe is over compensating and trying to prove something. He seems to be trying to be the PG from the coaches box, and his team is losing all of their BB instints. Again, not quite like, but not unlike, and with similar results as ” “.
RAWFS, if we don’t get invited to the NIT, I don’t think we’ll be fooling anyone by turning down an invitation to another tournament. My feeling is show up when you’re told, play as hard as you can.
PLAIN & SIMPLY:
The NIT is the preseason for next year’s team. If JJ is gone, he should be REQUIRED to make a statement BEFORE the NIT begins. IF he’s gone, he doesn’t play. It doesn’t help us for next year.
That is the ONLY information required before the NIT bid.
“K and Dean struggled out of the gate.”
This argument is just a non-starter. A thousand coaches struggle early….. and never become great coaches. The odds of Lowe becoming a great coach are, statistically, not good.
^ The point was and is that you don’t know whether Lowe is another K or Dean Smith, or one of the ones who don’t make it because it is just too soon to tell.
Great programs are not built overnight. I am as disappointed as anyone by this year’s team, but I also know that without solid guards it should have been expected.
“The odds of Lowe becoming a great coach are, statistically, not good.”
Are you speaking in general, and the overall, or what? Those people are saying that not every great coach has an easy start of it. Also, a good start doesn’t mean a “great” coach either. I think we’ve seen that in Raleigh also.
I mean, we haven’t had a “great” BB coach in two decades, so I guess you’re using those numbers as part of the statistical data to back up your claim.
Off topic, you guys who spend time here, or on PP or TWP might enjoy this:
How To Behave In Internet Forums
Funny stuff.
RALEIGH - North Carolina had more talent. On that, nearly everyone agreed.
But N.C. State had more heart. On that, nearly everyone had to agree.
“It was a great day,” State’s Brandon Costner said, “to be a part of N.C. State basketball.”
“I think we’ll look back and say it was the beginning of what this group, what Coach Lowe, is all about,” McCauley said.
Those are all quotes from the N&O article after the UNC win last year. It is interesting that Costner and McCauley, in those quotes and others, really seemed to get it, to buy into the history and potential of NC State basketball. Now those two are disappointments 1 and 1A, but why? I hope Sid has some answers to that because I don’t.
I don’t look at McCauley as a big disappointment this year, but that’s just me.
^RegularExpression,
It’s like I said earlier, if you’re going to demote workers who did well in the past, all in favor of a new guy, then that new guy had better be super human enough to compensate for a general lack of interest shown by a good number of his new co-workers.
McCauley was totally jerked around for the first half of the season, so I’m willing to cut him some slack. And while it’s time to give up on this season, I think it’s a mistake to give up on Costner.
I like Sid. I really do. But he needs to be taking notes this year, because there have been a lot of things that didn’t work. Hell, most things haven’t worked. I think team personnel and chemistry issues were not handled well. The offense has been ugly at times. The defense has been non-existent 95 percent of the time. Rebounding has been poor. All of these things fall on the shoulders of the coaching staff.
I don’t buy the Sid’s players/Herb’s players crap. They’re basketball players. Teach them what to do and they’ll do it. Or find someone else to play who can. But these guys collectively don’t defend as a team, don’t rebound, don’t pass with much effectiveness, etc. It’s really not just one guy. This is not a well-coached team. Period.
If we had Carolina’s talent, maybe we could mask that. We don’t. And while I am optimistic that Mays and Williams (and Johnny Thomas) will help next year, that’s not a drastic enough talent addition to make up for this. These kids need to be drilled and conditioned to make plays so we don’t have to bite our nails next November when the Big South and MEAC teams roll into the RBC.
I think part of the problem was Coach Lowe destroying the team dynamic by allowing Ben to become the odd man out through the non-conference season in favor of a freshman. Yea JJ had some big non-conference games against inferior competition, but he has not been half the beast in the ACC that he was in December.
I just think Lowe lost some players by giving playing time based on how many stars Rivals.com gave a player.
I say we are playing at a deficit at the PG and SG spots on most nights.
The PG spot is young and has/had competition all year, but one player has somewhat risen above and shown improvement since the first of the season. The SG spot has had no competition with almost unlimited PT, yet still no consistency and no noticable improvement.
To be honest and fair about it, Lowe is playing at about 60% manpower and only one out of two guards who can even handle the bball or pass to it to his teammates.
I’m very upset but I have to realize Lowe has only two of his own players playing right now. One is the most IMPROVED and possibly the biggest hustler, and the other is the simply the best player on the team.
I have very much lost sight recently, but I need to just back off and let this run it’s course. I still believe Sidney Lowe has what it takes if he can just reach back and recapture it, while at the same time restocking the pantry with his own selections.
I will watch and try not to comment on anything that is not positive anymore. That is of course, unless I keep hearing about the guy out in the desert. I csn’t hold those comments in, wouldn’t be prudent or good for my health anyway.
“I think most successful teams have that one certain guy who is a sparkplug and can light a fire under his teammates. The Pack obviously doesn’t have that guy on this team. “This guy” is the main addition that we need for next season, but who will fill that role?”
Once again, from citations on the internets from people who have watched Johnny Thomas play as well as hearing from a guy that went to high school with him, The 3 things that I have heard consistently about him are this:
Athletic freak.
Leader on the court.
High-grade student.
If he can shoot some, I’d say this could be our guy next year. He’s spent a year hanging out with the whole team, and he’s learning basketball from watching on the sideline, let’s just hope his ability hasn’t been taken away by a cartilage injury. I hate to get excited about a guy before I see him play in a North Carolina State University jersey, but it’s hard not too about this guy.
Anyway, everyone needs to chalk this year up to a learning experience for EVERYONE. You can’t tell me that these guys didn’t know that they had to stay in shape for basketball, they’ve been doing it for the last 10 years of their life. What happened was one word. Injury. Who on the team isn’t in shape currently? Costner. Who was the biggest part of people assuming we would kickass and take names this year? Costner. What was the biggest question mark? Point guard. What happened? Degand blew his ACL. Degand had a FULL year of practice under his belt, Javi had none when the year started. Javi has made INCREDIBLE progress over the last 2 months.
Who needs to take the most blame for this season? The fans. We drunk too much damn kool aid, and it must have been spiked. Lets throw Sidney and Co under the bus because their best player from last year has been struggling with injurys, their best point guard blew an ACL, and possibly their most athletic player (Thomas) also hurt his knee and is out for the year.
The only thing that I put on the team is their lack of effort at times. The good news with that is that Sidney’s recruits have pretty much given it 110% every time they’re on the court. Even Johnson. Johnson seems like a big time competitor, but is hitting a wall because of his ability or lack of at his current position. I still say that he’d make a fine small forward.
Is Sidney blameless? Nah. But thats why it’s best to chalk this up as a learning experience for all.
Great insight on the Kool-Aid.
Without last seasons ACC run and a pre-season ranking, are we even having this discussion? I do not believe we are.
well said and worth re-stating:
“Around the internets, many are confused about what constitutes a “real fan”. They mistakenly think that objective criticism shows that you are not a real fan. If you predict a loss (based on poor performance), you are not a real fan.
They are horribly wrong. Their definition of being a real fan requires one to disconnect themselves from reality. A real fan makes objective judgements….and still pulls for a win even though it is not expected.”
westwolf
Feb 22nd, 2008 at 6:35 pm
^Speculation or based on a source?
Refers to my inappropriately worded post about the possibility that Costner has something going on we are privvy to. I have no inside poop. I apologize for the lapse.
Grey
You guys are going to laugh at me for what I am about to say. This team will be more than alright next year.
The adversity that doesn’t kill you in life, makes you strong. Not only will the team be stronger, SFN will reach new heights as well. I just read through the comments and actually got moved by the REAL State fan in you all coming out. The derisiveness is abating. I am proud to be a Wolfpacker this very minute — something I got from you all, Redfred, RAWFS, etc. Go PACK!!
I don’t buy the Sid’s players/Herb’s players crap. They’re basketball players. Teach them what to do and they’ll do it. Or find someone else to play who can.
First of all, you are contradicting yourself inside a single paragraph.
Secondly, many of Herb’s players were system players designed to play within the framework of his offense. Lowe’s is different. But they’re basketball players, wind ‘em up and turn them loose on the court and expect success. Good luck with that.
Then you say, ‘find players who can.’ In other words, ‘Coach Lowe, go and get players that fit can your scheme.’
That’s *exactly* what many of us are thinking.
Finally, Coach O’Brien had a number of problems with his players this year because they were holdovers from the previous coaching staff, which had a different mindset and strategic philosophy. Those players struggled too under TOB and his assistants. Do you want to posit that TOB is not a good coach because he had issues getting maximum effort out of the Amato upperclassmen? Effort comes from within. It cannot be forced out. Wait and see the difference when TOB’s own players come through his system.
^The football situation isn’t a great comparison, because the main problem with Amato’s guys was a lack of discipline. Sure TOB runs a different system, but he found a way to make the team better as the year progressed and the players got used to what he was doing. Or sat. Herb’s guys weren’t undisciplined punks.
Grant and Fells may have been Herb’s players, but they didn’t really fit his system and were in fact often in the doghouse. We were all excited about their chance to start fresh last year with a coach who would let them play the way they were capable of playing. McCauley developed into a monster last year, under Sid. Maybe it was just getting the court time. Costner was awesome last year, under Sid. They may be “system” players, but I don’t think it makes any sense to write them off as incapable because the system changed. The only Herb players I might put in that category are Horner and Ferguson.
When I said “find someone else to play,” I was referring more to the short term, where there is a capable guy like Tracy Smith sitting on the bench. Or if someone’s not going to play the defense you demand, put Ferguson in there, who will at least leave everything he’s got on the court.
What bends me out of shape (lately at least) is the contrast between half one and half two. The injuries, different types of players in a different system, etc. can account for stuff, but they’ve proved in several games that when they put forth the effort, they can hang with and even get a lead against teams (very good teams). Yet when they come out