Press it, pound it, or beat the ever-loving piss out of it (my choice). But it’s time, my friends. It’s time.
UPDATE: Oh, and Ben gets hurt in garbage time. Like I’ve said before - the motto of every NC State fan should be “It can always get worse - and it usually does.”
I think Fells could be sick at the next level
shittttttttt Mccauley just went down hard.
McCauley,Harris,Fells,Horner,MJ <—not a bad lineup
oh crap McCauley is down.
oh no Ben is down
What the crap is up with our team and spraining ankles.
what would you guys say the over under for 20+ pt losses for this team should be for the rest of the year we still have to play duke twice unc and this clemson team again so id put the over/under at 5
Johnny Thomas (knee, out for season)
Farnold Degand (ACL, out for season)
Javy Gonzalez (thumb, active but..)
Ben McCauley (ankle, ???)
Marcus Johnson (ankle, still playing)
Courney Fells (ankle, still playing)
Dennis Horner (ankle, still playing)
fire the sports medicine staff, bring in Norm Chow.
Far as I am concerned, Fells is our starting point guard, Simon Harris and Tracy Smith are starters.
Gary Hahn is so fun tonight.
Quoting Linkin Park—”Cause everything that you thought I would be is falling apart right in front of you”
jeremyh i agree with that lineup harris and smith play hard and hell we cant get any worse at the point……just run the hell out of the team and the last two ppl to fall out our your other starters
I don’t see us winning anymore this year.
JeremyH: agreed, fells at the point, harris and smith and let the rest fight it out for some pt
catchme16: I’d guess more like 7 unless these guys have a spiritual awakening. This team is beaten before they even set foot on the court.
this is what it feels like to be a diehard Duke football fan..
Stat of the game: Brandon Costner, 0-6, ZERO points.
F’ing fire Lee Fowler right f’ing now!!!
^Costner: 1 rebound.
Sid oughta ask ‘em how long they want to suck.
If I hear Lowe say something positive tonight in his post game interview I am going to puke. OK time to click some ads, be back in a few.
Team stat of the game: Total made field goals (23). Turnovers (23).
It’s so frustrating to play semi well within what - the first five minutes - and then for it all to fall apart. I was disappointed in the starters. It should have been Harris, Smith, Horner and McCauley all along. They are the only ones out there showing any sort of effort.
I agree - Fells could be seriously sick out there. He’s a hell of a athelete. As for Grant and Fells trying to play point guard - this is just a sad repeat of last year when Atsur was injured. And just as frightening to watch.
Regardless - I sit and watch and still cheer until the bitter end. But only being logged on to SFN keeps me going.
I’m surprised I didn’t get wasted. Especially being a night game. Regardless - at least we didn’t give up and I thought we showed more defensive effort this go round. Although I might be wishful thinking. . . . .
Over under on 20 point losses? How about over under on scoring 60 points for the rest of the year. I set it at zero. Back to clicking ads.
Waiting to hear how Sid tries to polish tonight’s turd.
Fire Fowler? OK but before he’s fired, he should spend a day in the stocks out on the brickyard.
Whoever evealuated the talent level of Javi Gonzales and Johnson and made the decision that they could ever, EVER play at this level should be fired immediately.
And think of this…someone evaluated Degand and decided that he was SOOOO good that it was worth waiting an entire year for him to play. Do you realize that if a different decision was made, let’s say to bring in a different player than Degand, then he could have helped LAST year when Atsur was hurt, and this would be his second year of experience?
If Monte Towe, who has not had a very successful coaching career, is responsible for these decisions, then he needs to be let go.
OK, I clicked all the links!
Death Spiral….
Let’s face it Syd has lost this team if he ever had them. It is obvious that Costner has lost interest. Sorry guys but I think I would rather have the Princeton offense. At least it was slightly competitive. The team goes down the floor, one player goes one on one gets the shot blocked while everyone else stands and watches.
SFN can use the following headlines through February:
It’s A Lowe Down Dirty Shame
NC State Basketball: An All New Lowe
Keeping the Pack on the Down Lowe
Lowe Blows
And maybe Syd can pen his own biography and call it “Lowe is Me”
wolfpack74ms - too right! I don’t know what has happened to Costner - but at least Sid pulled him out whenever he went on his dummy-o tangent. He even looked dejected when he helped McCauley up. If Hickson or Costner think they have what it takes to go pro next year - they need to think again. Although - I was surprised Ced Simmons & Shav ever were able to go pro at their level too. (Proud of Shav - I’m a BHS grad - but still surprised).
OK, I am a believer now … “Houston, we have a problem.” Without a point guard, we are pretty much done. The PG is the quarterback of the team. And if you think the quarterback position is not important, talk to Chuck Amato about Philip Rivers.
hmmmm taking awhile for Lowe to talk to the media. Ya think he may finally be embarassed by HIS effort?
At least Purnell had the class to start pulling his starters before the two minute mark hit.
Anyone here know which coach kept his starters in until the last 74 seconds in another one of our blowouts?
The one that whines about his big boy getting hurt on fouls when he is still in at the end of an obvious blowout.
Oh well at least we lost to a team with a class coach.
My starting line up for the Miami game assuming big Ben is out is:
Smith
Harris
Fells
T-Rev
Chad Williams
second string
Gant
Hickson
Horner
Johnson
Lowe
I don’t think it is fair to say that Sid has lost this team. For the most part tonight they played hard, and in fact the effort level at the end of the game was very good. The fact is, this team can play as hard as they want but when you don’t have a point guard that can even get the team into any semblance of an offense it is going to be a long season.
jeremyH-this is what it feels like to be a diehard Duke football fan..
Yea except we had expectations this year which leaves us with nothing more than pain.
They don’t always play hard, but tonight proved that there is more to it than that.
We simply don’t have guys on the roster capable of playing at this level. Sorry, but there are high school kids in Raleigh who are better right now than he’ll ever be.
Johnson simply can’t dribble with his left hand.
Degand would not start on ANY acc team.
We don’t have the talent level at guard to compete in the Acc.
Sid is finally admitting the deeper problems, cites lack of mental toughness. That is indeed refreshing. And very accurate.
Also, I would add Costner to the list of those that are/have been injured. He is a complete shell of the player we saw last season and I have to wonder if his summer knee injury is lingering? There is no part of his game that is working right now but I would say his rebounding has been most disappointing. 1 rebound in 20 minutes. I get that he is a scoring funk but rebounding is about effort.
I would like to know, in all seriousness, what in God’s name has happened to Brandon Costner.
jeremyH-this is what it feels like to be a diehard Duke football fan..
At least Duke was competitive with in its rival game (UNC) - we did not even show up. Maybe things will be different in Raleigh - I doubt it.
Thanks Gavin - we’ve now got 5 . . .. . .
Did anyone hear Sid’s interview???? They still don’t know what’s up with McCauley. At least he owned up the PG situation. Looks like Fells might be the one. At least he can hit threes.
And the hits just keep on comin’.
At laest we do have some guys who will hustle. Why the heck has Smith not played more? He is at last scrappy. It’s going to take more than that or Fells shooting out the lights for us to be respectable when we stand and watch the other team drive the court for layups. And what really gets me is the 5′5″ guy with the watermelon head shoots with NO ONE within 5 feet for at least 3 of his 3 pointers. No one. Do you really think he’s out there be cause he can run and jump?
About the only good news is that our athletic director got his contract extended recently. Good thing Lee will be around for a while.
After NO, MSU, and ECU, I honestly can’t believe that anyone is suprised at the results from playing UNC and Clemson.
I have some questions for everyone that is wasting tons of electronic ink looking for “THE PROBLEM”
- What makes you think that there is only one?
- What makes you think that you know enough to find THE PROBLEM? (Are you at practice and in the locker room?)
- What makes you more qualified than State’s staff at finding THE PROBLEM?
- If THE PROBLEM was fixable, don’t you think that we would see some improvement?
- What would you do even if you could figure out what THE PROBLEM is?
I swear I will scream out loud the next time I read a cliche labeled as either THE PROBLEM or THE SOLUTION.
If you don’t have anything intelligent to say, go somewhere else.
VaWolf82
He basically says we’re playing stupid when we have the ball.
He also says “Every three pointer they made was a mistake.”
Gavin says they’re making boneheaded plays, they’re doing the opposite of what coach tells them, and he knows coach is getting frustrated with them.
I have to agree with RE. I was pissed after the UNX game and frustrated with this game but I think Sid is in a no win situation. You have to have a couple of guards who can dribble the ball, break the press, and set up an offense. We don’t have anyone who can do that, let alone 2 guys. Then you try to find something that works and go big, because that’s all he can do. Next thing you know we’re too slow to get back on transition defense.
Now we did suck out loud on perimeter defense, a staple of these players. We still have a problem going to the ball on the rebound. Still too many players standing around at times watching one guy turn the ball over.
We’re not going to win many games this year because we don’t have an Atsur who will ride in to the rescue. Sidney will just have to figure out a way to get us through this season, and probably next, without the players quiting on him while showing improvement to fans and recruits
Concerning the 3’s tonight, our perimeter defense has been soft all year and tonight was no exception. The last 2 games our opponents have played VERY physical perimeter defense starting at halfcourt but we don’t seem to be able to return the favor. If the game is going to be allowed to be physical we need to be prepared to take advantage of that. Duke’s ability to hit 3’s and play solid perimeter defense may make for a 40 point game.
From Choppack1: What continues to baffle me is that we apparently recruited 3 guards who can’t play to the spot or who can’t play together the floor for an extended period of time.
I concur…it baffles me. I think T. Smith just earned a starting spot over Costner…Wow…Chris Wright…I hope you enjoy riding the pine at Georgetown this year…damnit!!
We don’t have a PG with the smarts or athletic ability to play in the ACC, IMO.
Which assistant recruited these guys?
In every situation I’ve been close to similar to this one has been resolved by leadership. But, its too soon to give up on Syd at this point. The coaches can start by demanding all out effort from everyone every second you are on the floor or you sit.
Duke could easily beat us by 70, if they wanted. Our perimeter defense sucked last year, and sucks again this year. We just have a trainwreck offense to go with it. Degand’s injury hurts us in that area, too - he at least gave a consistent defensive effort.
Name the good freshmen starting PGs in the ACC this year.
In fact, name 10 decent freshmen starting PGs in the history of the ACC.
The SI cover jinx has nothing on the Pack Pride cover jinx.
this is just a bad team … there’s no malice in me saying that
i don’t hate them and don’t want to be overly negative … it actually feels somewhat better to me to admit it … i’m not giving up on them by any strecth - never … but it’s not a very good team
i’m going to switch back to my attitude from last season … enjoy any and every good moment this team gets and not fret too much about the bad moments … we may honestly struggle to get more than 2-3 more victories if this type of play continues OR if we keep seeing injuries … until we can solve some recruiting deficiencies it could be tough but i’ll keep on cheering all the way
i just hope to see team improvement from this point on
(side note - miami, our opponent on saturday scored 4 pts. in the first 10 min. of their game against bc … hard to believe a team came out looking almost as bad as we did tonight … how much do you wanna bet they’ll be firing on all cylinders on sat. night?)
go pack
Jinx is our middle name.
Newt, off the top of my head Chris Paul, Marbury, Jarrett Jack, Will Avery, Greg Paulus…the list will go on and on.
Not trying to make any sort of statement, but this is the ACC and we have had some great wins. I’m a youngin’ and these just seem to be a few of the most recent.
Grant’s postgame interview: GG said Coach Lowe is telling them the right things to do in the timeouts and at halftime but the team either doesn’t listen or doesn’t do what he says. He also said that he knows that Coach Lowe is mad at them and they now need to get mad at themselves and do what the coach says.
From above: “In fact, name 10 decent freshmen starting PGs in the history of the ACC.”
Are you kidding?
Chris Paul
Ty Lawson
Tyrese Rice
Demontez Stitt
Chris Corchiani
Raymond Felton
Engin Atsur (yes, even as a Frosh)
Sean Singletary
Mark Price - ROY
Kenny Anderson - ROY
Ed Cota - ROY
Stephon Marbury - ROY
Man, I could go on an on….
This team has one last chance to redeem themselves, Miami. I’m pressing the panic button now, but depending on how we do in a home environment against a overranked team on saturday, I’ll be jamming the hell out of it.
Westwolf — two of the best posts I’ve seen…I concur completely that those are our biggest problems.
“Whoever evealuated the talent level of Javi Gonzales and Johnson and made the decision that they could ever, EVER play at this level should be fired immediately.
And think of this…someone evaluated Degand and decided that he was SOOOO good that it was worth waiting an entire year for him to play. Do you realize that if a different decision was made, let’s say to bring in a different player than Degand, then he could have helped LAST year when Atsur was hurt, and this would be his second year of experience?”
“Johnson simply can’t dribble with his left hand.
Degand would not start on ANY acc team.
We don’t have the talent level at guard to compete in the Acc.”
Sid has brought in 3 PG’s in 1 1/2 years, and they all are bad….not fair…or sufficient…they are not ACC caliber. I do include Degand in this list.
Bobby Hurley was a solid freshman
Here’s Costner’s stats after 20 minutes:
0-6 shooting (zero points)
2 assists
1 rebound
4 turnovers
What happened to this poor kid?
I predict a very small and/or quiet crowd this weekend - unless they start booing. Not endorsing that, but that’s what I expect.
All the talk about offense and the need of point guards, guards, and I have spoken my peace on the matter in earlier threads, but what about the need for defense on uncontested 3 attempts and wide open lay ups and such. How bouts some D.
How bouts a foul brigade on the worst free throw shooting team in the ACC(CLEMSON). And I dont have the numbers on how many fouls we committed total tonight but it wasnt enough. Hack away you SOFTIES. Hack I,say HACK. What can it hurt?
“And Costner fouls out in the first minute of the game”, So What.
“And Gonzales commits his fifth foul with 15 minutes to play in the 1st half”, SO What.
“And Ferguson fouls out midway through the first Half”, So What.
Should have been a HACKFEST PERIOD.
The Problem is we cant even get close enough to foul cause we dont DEFEND.
And forget BURNING some clock on OFFENSE cause the ball is a FRICKIN HOT POTATO. Isn’t it Ironic?
I don’t just blame the debacle of not having a point guard. The guys are not moving to the ball. Everyone is standing around watching the point guard or guard dribble. No help when someone is in trouble with the ball. What the…Our spacing and ball movement is terrible. Our dribble penetration is non existant. Frankly, our decision making and passing is awful. We are not aggressive with our offense or defense. This team lacks confidence and is not playing as a team. It looks like a street pick up game. Our defense is way too soft. Our hands aren’t active and we aren’t pressuring the dribbler. We had no deflections or tipped balls. The other team does not even feel our defensive pressure. They appear relaxed and cofident anyone of them could drive to the basket without someone contesting them. If this type of play continues this season will be a disaster!!
Gavin Grant has never been accused of having a “high basketball IQ” has he? Man, he learned some bad habits from Hodge. He’s either great or awful. That lob pass to Hickson is NOT a hard pass….throw the ball close to the rim, and let him slam it. You DON’T throw it 10 feet out of bounds….WE’RE VERY BAD, and the two guys many thought would be our leaders….Grant and Costner…are not leading this team. Besides the PG, we have NO leadership from the players…none…nada…zilch. Ben is definitely the closest. If he doesn’t start, something is wrong….and will stay wrong.
it would not surprise me at all with a small crowd this weekend since it is a long weekend but i plan to be in the student section and hopefully things get better cuz right now things are really really bad
I’ve seen far too many February turnarounds — and crashes — to say that the season rests on the third game of conference play.
Things look bleak right now, no doubt, but let’s not overdo it.
Not sure why, but we don’t pressure the ball until they get to the 3 point line. Watch UNX, Duke, Clemson and they pressure all over the court. We definitely played bad defense, and are hurting for some player leadership, but I’m not ready to throw in the towel. We have just played 2 of our 3 toughest road games, so I have faith the coaching staff and players will turn it around. The game Saturday is big, IMO.
Now that my hopelessness has subsided, I feel really bad for our coach. Imagine what kind of nightmare he is living right now (check the ‘quicksand’ speech by Keanu Reeves in ‘The Replacements’). Nothing he does works and it is getting worse by the game. And on top of that the pressure that comes with this job in such a high-profile basketball conference. Towe says premadonnas? They can be the “second wave” that spells the starting line-up of Fells, Harris, Horner, Smith, Johnson.
Boewolf, I’ve lurked here for a while and I generally agree with you. But I saw so many things wrong in the 2 minutes of the 2nd half that I forced myself to watch I cannot imagine how they can be fixed. Fells getting absolutely blown by on D. One ill advised 3 pt brick after another. Costner playing lazy D, no help on defense, and playing volleyball with the rebound that Clemson eventually got.
Saw all that in 2 minutes. Didn’t bother watching the other 38.
There was one thing about this game that I did enjoy. As the mental errors mounted, I believe Coach Lowe came to a point in the first half where he said “Enough is enough!” and started the fire sale on playing time. When players continued to make obvious mental errors, he replaced them, and not just for a little while. While his actions did not necessarily result in immediate success (points or defensive stops), to me the general level of playing intensity slowly picked up. IMHO, Courtney Fells was the obvious beneficiary, as he seemed to loosen up and play. Even Brandon Costner’s effort level picked up some (but that’s not necessarily a great feat). Hey, I don’t like losing any more than anyone else, but we all have been looking for something to change. We can’t make a quality PG suddenly appear, but we can improve our effort and playing intelligence. What I believe we saw tonight was Coach Lowe publicly saying to his players and to us “I am in charge and this team will do things my way!” We’ll see.
I think it goes without saying that guard play is the ultimate premium in college basketball. Look at the contrast at Duke and NCSU this season. Our offense is so f’ing predictable. One man struggles to maintain his dribble and shake off a smothering defender for 25 seconds while 4 other players stand around and scratch their asses. Then he either turns the ball over or finds a post man who hesitates while going up amongst 3 defenders and gets his shit blocked. Hell, if we do score everybody is so damn shocked that the other team is down the court for an uncontested layup.
We need to do what UNC, Duke, Louisville, et.al do, which is go purchase the best point guard money can buy.
If I really try to see the silver lining tonight (and that bugger is mighty thin), I’m encouraged that Sid was trying new combinations & rewarding players that were giving some effort. Better late than never I guess.
I’m going to pass on the panic button until Saturday. These last two games were not really on my anticipated “win” list to get into the NCAA’s.
Can’t press the panic button. It’s stucked.
what wesley said
dogbreath: we cant do what unc, duke, or louisville do because all three have hof coaches and every kid that watches espn wants to play in the biggest rivalry in college basketball
catchme16,
my sarcasm completely escaped you.
/\ Second that TNCSU, If they are embarassed at home by Miami, I’m on board the panic train. But losing to UNC and Clemson on the road is no surprise. You could have counted these as losses at the beggining of the year, and I wouldn’t argue the point.
The PG play is so grievous, and the two youngsters look scared. Might as well plug Fergie back in, it would be an improvement to have a guy who may actually be a threat to score, we were playing four on five on the offensive end on the few occasions where the PG could get into the set.
T smith has played well in most instances this year, and he at least makes mistakes at full speed. He hits the boards hard and is quick inside. I want him to get more minutes, at least HE seems to want rebounds.
If there is a silver lining to our PG situation.
13 Johnson, Marques…. g 3 rebounds 4 assists
He had the most assists on the team for the first time ever… I wouldn’t throw Marques away just yet.
2 out of our 3 toughest ACC games out of the way. If the boys can win against Miami, who was getting pounded by BC last time I checked a turnaround is possible.
Let’s start the Tracy Smith Fan club NOW!!
I’m not ready to push the panic button yet. I would have been had Coach Lowe not mixed in minutes for some of the other guys tonight. I honestly don’t know what has happened to Costner, but he is terrible. The way he’s playing right now, he doesn’t even belong in our rotation. I think tonight Tracy Smith proved that he can at least be a solid contributor offensively and a contributor on the boards. His defense (like most freshmen…including Hickson) needs some work, but that will come with experience. I think its time to let him get some playing time. Horner deserves more time. McCauley should have never been moved out of the starting line-up. Grant is giving good effort, but I think he’s been put into a similar situation as Hodge was during his junior and senior years…everyone stands around and forgets to move as Grant gets the ball and he’s forced to make either a bad pass or shoot a bad shot before the shot clock expires. With all that having been said…I think our starting line-up for the Miami game should look like this:
PG-Fells
SG-Grant
SF-Horner
PF-McCauley
C-Hickson
6th-Smith (replaces Hickson)
7th-Johnson (Replaces Horner and Fells and Grant go to natural pos.)
8th-Ferguson (Replaces either Fells or Johnson)
9th-Harris (Replaces whomever isn’t giving effort)
10th-Costner (keeps spots warm on the bench for guys that give a shit)
This will give Smith, Ferguson, and Harris a good chance to establish themselves as contributors. Yes, Fergie lacks talent, but have you ever watched him play and thought that he didn’t care or wasn’t trying or that he was doing something against the coach’s will (on purpose)? Furthermore, has Gonzalez shown you that he is any better than Fergie? This will also give Costner a chance to learn that he should appreciate the minutes he does get. Maybe if he learns to appreciate his opportunity then he will show more effort on the court.
I think we lost these last two games to…one of the top 5 teams in the country and a team that is a solid top 15 team if you don’t make them shoot free throws..on the road. We looked horrible, but remember that its almost impossible for the middle of the pack ACC teams to have winning road records. I think we’ll come home and give a great effort against Miami, and most likely win. While things have looked dismal in our opening two ACC games…remember what Boston College did a couple of years ago? We’ve seen other teams turn things around at much later points in a season and we still have time to do so. Let’s keep an eye on the future and realize that Coach Lowe is also gonna be trying to do the same.
Oh…and we suck.
I really could care less if I ever saw Brandon Costner wear a Wolfpack uniform again! Go Phillip, make your Pack fans proud by beating those cheating bastards from Boston!
Step back and think first before hitting the panic button.
Judge the team based on last years season and not a pre-season ranking, a great freshman, and the media hype machine. If you objectively look at last season, what has happened so far this year is not nearly as disastrous.
I forced my youngest son to apply to unx-xh last week just so he could talk stuff to me and my middle son!
Regardless I’ll continue to click the ads. I am encouraged by the varied line ups we saw tonight. I think Sid realizes what he’s been doing so far this year ain’t gonna work in the ACC. When I read in the N&O today that there would be changes in the starting line up I was hoping it was going to be more than replacing one not ready for prime time point guard with another not ready for prime time point guard. When I saw that was indeed the “change” tonight I was most disappointed. No way should Mr. White Castle be seeing more than 7 minutes of playing time per game. Tonight we saw at least 3 players that will contribute and help this group finally become a team.
Just feel bad for Costner, and damn mad him too. He is hurting his pro chances, and the whole team. It really looks like his mind went pro, and left his shell here. That sucks all around.
What is killing me is yes, against my better judgment, I got my hopes and expectations up. So those are dashed. I agree with the earlier commenter, back to last season. I’ll take whatever I can get.
“What makes you more qualified than State’s staff at finding THE PROBLEM?”
C’mon, man. No one would have gotten away with that b.s. when Herb was coaching, and no one, not even Mr. Condescension, can get away with that crap now.
There are a million problems out there that even a novice can spot. Boxing out. Passing. The idea that f’ing transfers do a damn bit of good. The playsets. JJ Hickson thinking WCU = ACC. Its comments like that from the contributors that keep this site from being taken seriously. Its even more of a joke when the contributors try to edit comments as to cover up any valid criticism or disagreement.
Positives:
we out rebounded clemson (4th best rebounding team in ACC) 38 to 30. Glad to see Lowe is getting through to the team in that area
Fells is shooting well and seems to be gaining confidence 19pts on 7-12 from field and 5-8 from 3pt arch tonight
Smith: season high 13 pts on 6-11 shooting and 1-2 from the line
Negatives:
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
Turnovers
23 of them
I think that Sid may need to reevaluate his staff.
one other positive..for the first time this season we forced a team to call a TO on an inbounds play b/c they could not inbound the ball. When was the last time we saw that?
Also, nice hustle by most players when we started pressing with about 4-5 minutes left. I wish we would have started at the 15min mark.
Turnovers are what killed us this game, nothing more, nothing less. Now, as to what caused these turnovers… is anyones guess.
An article from about 6 weeks ago quoting Rick Patino, if these guys cared more about the name on the front of their jersey than the name on the back they would probably be scoring more points.
I too am glad Sid went to the bench tonight and gave some of the other guys a shot. I wish Brandon Costner would wake up and realize where he is. He needs to look up at those banners in the rafters, look at the faces of guys courtside like Corch or Burleson, and realize how LUCKY he is. He seems to believe we’re lucky to have him; believe me Brandon, it’s the other way round son.
You have the opportunity to play for one of the college games LEGENDARY programs. You have the talent to follow some of the games GREATEST players into the storybooks. But that’s not enough. You gotta WANT it. BAD. So bad, that as Roy said, “I’d rather beat ____ than eat.” Teams and players with less TALENT succeed all the time. Teams and players with less HEART rarely do.
Gut Check time. What’s it gonna be?
I just don’t see how Coach Lowe continues to start the same/similar line-up. If Gavin openly admits that the players aren’t listening to coach by not doing what he says to do during time outs, sit their asses down and play the bottom five players on the bench. Play them the entire game until these guys get their heads out of the clouds and realize you have to earn playing time. By Coach Lowe always starting the same guys, and not making drastic changes, well, they continue to believe they’re irreplaceable.
Towe better be on the next plane out of Raleigh offering a full scholarship to the best JC point guard in the nation. I don’t know who that is, but find him and get him here asap!
Didn’t get to see the game, but am glad Lowe shuffled the lineup some. That said, what has disgusted me more than the team’s performance is the reaction on this Web site, particularly comments about how we should start thinking of getting rid of Lowe and how he can’t coach.
He came into a bad situation. I, along with everybody else, swallowed the media kool-aid about being third in the ACC. Ain’t gonna happen. The deficiencies are too much.
Have we forgotten how he outcoached K and Huckleberry last year? It can be done. He’s still in his second year, has made some mistakes in recruiting, but has shown his strenghts in landing JJ. Any talk of getting rid of someone who probably bleeds more than we did after getting embarrassed by Carolina is ridiculous. I could only get through half the comments on another entry before I felt more sick reading them than I felt watching the debacle at Chapel Swill.
Patience is a virtue. I don’t like things right now, and might not for a year or two.
Is Lowe the guy? Don’t know. But talk of abandoning him before the end of year 3 is ludicrous. This isn’t year 8-9-10 of Voldemort.
No panic here just more evidence of the work Lowe has before him.
Face it this team has some issues to deal with - from major holes in personnel (point guard most noticeably) to major problems with consistent effort on the court.
I was heartened by the play of some players in the game (Tracy Smith, Grant, Big Ben and Fells in particular) but there is still a lot of work to do.
20 years of lowered expectations aren’t solved in a few months.
I think this year will in many ways be like last year - some highs and some lows (really low) - part of getting the program headed for a brighter future.
More wood chopping is most certainly in order.
Just remember… playing a season in the ACC is like a salmon swimming upstream.
Anyone feel better yet?
“He came into a bad situation”
Don’t know that I agree with that blanket statement. I saw what these guys have the capability, if they put their mind to it, last year. Two of the happiest memories of my young Wolfpack life (beating UNC in regular season and the ACC Tourney). He’s had some time to try and find a guard. He swung three times and missed. He has a McDonald’s All American in Hickson, yet we are far worse than we were last year. Our offense is despicable. Stand around, try to back a guy in, get triple teamed, then throw up some junk. I do not get it. I am not calling for his dismissal. What I am saying is we need to see some improvement both on the floor and in the hearts and minds of our players this year. It must continue into the offseason. Right now, I would have to say we are in the bottom third of the league. That is not where any of us expect to be.
And I distinctly remember saying, “I can’t wait for basketball season.” Now I can’t wait for football season.
Just to put things in perspective…
I was like many of you thinking that we would be a decent ball club this year…
That was predicated on getting one or two point guards that would be adequate replacements for Astur…
Unfortunately, due to Sid’s late hire, he and the coaching staff had to take the best available guards out there…
Specifically, Gonzales, Degand, and Johnson…
To show you how absolutely inadequate our talent level is, Chris Wright would be starting on this team…
He is sitting the pine at Georgetown…
I truly hope that the coaching staff can recruit a 1 that can penetrate dribble and shoot the 3, along with a 2 that can shoot the 3…
Until we have an outside threat and a point guard that can run the offense our bigs down low won’t have a chance…
Players not listening to the coach; does that sound familiar? It happens every night in any NBA game you watch. Problem is, this isn’t the NBA. Anyone on this team who is not listening to the coach should be super-glued to the bench until he gets the message. This is the most frigtening problem we have. Perhaps a few games, not minutes, on the bench and these guys will get the message.
We are just nto a good team. I did not want to admit it but we are not.
Our guards are just horrid. Fells is up and down more than a bicycle pump. Johnson and Gonzales are not ready for what they are being forced to play (if they ever will be).
Costner is… well I have no idea what is wrong with him but he is costing himself millions of dollars.
It is not a team and frankly I have no idea how to fix it.
Lots of pain out there last night. It’s beyond comment, really.
However, it’s clear now that this season (on-court & recruiting) will be a huge part of the vetting experience for Lowe. There are talent holes with this team. There appear to be motivation and, possibly, attitude problems with this team. There may be tactical and coachability problems with this team. There are signs of talent identification issues as well. Heck, there may even be a scholarship management issue as Costner’s early departure hopes have evaporated and Hickson would clearly, IMO, be best suited to another year or 2 of seasoning. It’s quite a pile of work to have on ones door step.
Anyhow, my hopes for the season roughly dashed, I think it’s time to sit and watch the coach for a couple of years and see how he manages this program. It’s going to be interesting but, quite possibly, not much fun.
Costner’s play was at an all time low last night. If that does not get him booted from the starting line up for Miami there is something bizarre going on. Ben should be starting, assuming the ankle is OK.
I see no evidence right now that Lowe understands the college game. None. Notice I didn’t say let’s get rid of him (yet, give me another week or so).
But one of our complaints about Herb was that he didn’t develop his players — they didn’t improve. Lowe has had the core of this team for two years now and with the possible exception of Fells, they’ve all regressed.
Can’t change the past, only the future.
Sid COACHED the game quite well last season, IMO. Thus, I think he understands the game well enough. However, there were signs that intensity and, by extension, motivation may have been issues in some games. That seems to have survived to this year, in spades, and this is a lesson Sid will now have the opportunity to learn the hard way. Again, I’ve no idea how well or how quickly the problems will get solved but I do know that the success or failure will have nothing to do with Herb Sendek or related I-told-you-so’s.
We have one coach. He’s had 1.5yrs. He’ll get at least 2.5 more, IMO. Time to roll back expectations and watch for development, on the court and on the bench.
No point guard once again……
Still a chace to finish with a winning record, just some motivation and some TEAM spirit needed.
Maybe there should always be two post-game threads: first, immediate emotional reaction, then the more sober reactions.
The calls to fire Lowe are just silly.
At least at this point.
I think Costner must have spent the fall watching Carolina Panthers games and decided to do a Julius Peppers impersonation. But whether his problems are physical or mental or both, I agree that he needs to see some serious bench time until he gets it together. It also appears that his teammates have lost confidence in him. Fells in his post game comments took a couple of not so subtle shots at him.
And I can also really do without Tony Haynes talking about what a great job Costner is doing blocking out in a game where he gets 1 rebound in 20 minutes.
Brandon Costner’s stat line from last night -
0 points, 0-6 fgs, 0-2 3s, 1 reb, 2 ass, 4 TOs, 20 mins
T. Smith’s stat line from last night -
13 pts, 6-11, 6 rebs, 20 mins.
I can’t remember a pre-season 1st team all-ACC guy having a more disappointing season. Costner has been reduced to nothing more than an average to below average ACC player. Same goes for McCauley.
Our expectations were largely based on B. Costner being one of the top players in the league and McCauley being not far behind. Based on their play this season, our struggles should not surprise anyone at this point especially when you combine it with losing our top guy at PG for the season already.
We may struggle to make the NIT.
I am certaintly not calling for Lowe’s head (It’s nice to finally have a coach that truly understands the history with this program) BUT the 3 issues I can’t understand are:
1. Starting line up? The only “change” last night was MJ.
Costner was still there despite consistent poor play, attitude and hustle? I am not trying to bash the kid but if he can’t compete sit him down…Horner, Smith and Harris continue to show heart and effort. This should be rewarded (even if they aren’t as “talented” as most of the others)
2. Offense & Defense? I certainly don’t want to revert to the Sendek offense (I guess Princeton is more appropriate) but the clear out NBA style has to go. The players are all over the place (with the exception of under the basket) and they need some structure. Some sort of offense needs to be established, even if it’s the basic screen away style with the big men actually staying on the block.
As for Defense…Why is it that every team we play has more intensity on defense? Last years excuse was a short bench with tired players. This year that excuse doesn’t apply! We may not have a strong team but we do have enough bodies to contribute a few minutes of aggressive defense. Maybe even try a full court press for a change. It seems most other teams do it (some better than others) but I can’t remember the last time a Wolfpack team has even attempted this other than the last 2 minutes of a game.
3. PG? I know we had “slim pickin’s” because of the late hire of Lowe but doesn’t it seem odd that EVERY team we have played or will play have one or two players who can actually dribble? How can Div. II schools get point guards and we can’t? Who cares if they aren’t 6′5″ atleast they can dribble and run an offense. WCU, Presby, NO, ECU all had PG’s that could dribble and run an offense (I not saying they were typical ACC guards here…). Why can’t we at least have just one of those? We are a larger school that can offer a great education and athletic opportunity. I just don’t understand how we can’t have a player who can handle the ball. At this point maybe we should recruit the best “dribbler” in the nation and work on the other parts later….
I just hope Lowe can make the adjustments and adapt to a more structured basketball style that is needed in the College arena. He has the heart, background and drive…Let’s just hope he can coach and mentor these kids. If not…it will be a short relationship.
Go Pack!
Costner’s lack of fundamentals in blocking out are blatantly obvious. He gave up an offensive rebound last night because he stepped towards the basket on a free throw instead of boxing out the Clemson guy next to him on the blocks.
Good thing we are a football school.. wait basketball..no football.. oh nevermind.
I think there were two moments for me during that are representative of our season so far:
Clemson had just taken a shot and there was a long rebound to the right of the basket. All of our players were within the 3-point line and should have gathered in the rebound. However, a Clemson player ended up with the rebound simply because he hustled after the ball. Tracy Smith, who was defending his man closely, looked around in disbelief at the other 4 standing around not going for the ball. There was no one blocking out - period.
(I have liked Smith the whole year and wondered why he has had little or no playing time).
Second point was earlier in the game when Javi was called on five seconds near mid-court. Grant came over to him to say something after the call and Javi just kept his head down ignoring Grant, and Grant just gave up on him. I expect more leadership from a senior. I think Javi is trying, but he is limited in his experience and current ability. He got that 5 second call because the other 4 were standing around near the basket - Grant was the only one that came to the ball, but only as the whistle was being blown.
I saw hustle and heart in Fells, Smith, Ben and yes, Javi - everyone else seemed lost. Our biggest fear may not be that Hickson declares for the draft after this year, but Fells instead of or in addition to.
This loss, despite the score, doesn’t bother me. We survived a barrage of three’s - any team can get red hot - and poor play on offense - we had butter fingers and couldn’t catch some passes, so we had some unforced turnovers, to be only down by eight at the half.
I’m not sure what to expect in the second half, when we have our SG moved to PG and our walk-on utility G/F starting at SG.
Not sure why folks are surprised we struggled in the second half.
Hope the injury situation doesn’t hamper us too much, because we did play better than we did since the Seton Hall game.
“Our biggest fear may not be that Hickson declares for the draft after this year, but Fells instead of or in addition to.”
BWAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAA [deeeeeeeep breath] BWAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAA
Can someone explain to me why we have to wait three years before we throw Lowe out with the garbage and hire an actual, for-real coach?
Why is it going to take THREE years to realize that a coach with a lifetime winning percentage below the Mendoza Line can’t get it done?
The critical flaw is the lack of talent at the PG spot, right? We’re in that spot because we have an idiot coach who decided that taking two reject scrub transfers who had already proven they weren’t ACC material and a guy who couldn’t even get ranked in the top 200 in the nation could handle the PG role in the toughest conference in the country.
Too harsh? Were Farnold Degand and Marques Johnson not the THIRD string point guards at Iowa State and Tennessee? He didn’t find any ACC point guards in his first class (the one with Horner). He didn’t find any ACC points in his second (current frosh) and he filled up his third class with a shooting guard and a small forward (neither of whom are in anyone’s top 100).
We suck this year. Face it…and it had nothing to do with Degand getting hurt. We lost to New Orleans and ECU with Degand in the lineup. We’re going to lose Hickson and Grant (and probably someone else) after this year and we’re adding nothing of consequence. So…we’re going to suck next year.
Basically, the next decade of NC State basketball will be determined by whether or not John Wall comes to NC State. And everyone keeps saying he’s a one-and-done guy, so we’re going have to start over right after that.
Sidney Lowe is a guy that, during a scholarship crunch, decided to tie up 8.5 percent of his scholarships in Bartoz Lewandowski for five years. Only a freak accident kept him from doing that.
This is the guy that you’re putting your faith in.
Now I know how cult suicides take place.
Panic Button?? Is that the button you hit to start watching American Idol instead of N C State basketball?
At one point last night, I saw Costner just stand around on defense, didn’t raise an arm to guard or even get near anyone, then when the ball turned over, up went his arms….let me shoot it! Bench him forever and I really hate to say that. Something has gone wrong in that young man’s mind and he needs professional help. No NBA team in their right mind would even consider drafting any player on this team the way they are playing. They can’t even bounce the ball, let alone dribble without hitting themselves in the feet! Can’t pass, can’t shoot, can’t play defense!
Oh, well, at least you can feel sorry for the people on American Idol that don’t have any talent!
I would suggest that “The Problem” is that our AD completely made a mockery of our coaching search and rushed to a hire to save face. This team has all but destroyed the “feel good story” aspect of hiring Sid and we are only TWO games into the ACC schedule. Folks, this team has real potential to tank this season in a monumental way (0-16 anyone). I REALLY hope that we don’t discover that this team’s inability stems from coaching rather than ability. It is very frustrating to have the facilities and fan base that we do and produce this product. I wish Sid and the boys all the best, but this could get really ugly before the season ends. I honestly don’t know who we could beat in the ACC.
Noah,
I understand your frustration, but who should coach had brought in? It’s not like we passed on a bunch of guys that we had established relationships with. Lowe went full court to salvage Wright but it did not work out. After that, who was left…it is the spring signing period. Who do you get?
It’s kinda like if he was coming in now and goig after Wall. At this stage, if you do not have a relationship with Wall, you have no chance to get him. Lowe faced the same thing when he arrived here.
This is why it is going to take 3 years. He barely got a decent class for 08. We are in good position with top players in 09 and already have a commitment from a top 10 in the 10 class.
Just like w/ TOB, it is going to take some time.
I’ve got Carolina fans giving me condolences as if my grandmother had passed away. They thought that they had played a fantastic, nearly flawless game, until the realization set in that we are the biggest cupcake on anyone’s schedule.
Noah,
You sum up what has happened quite well. However, I can’t fault Lowe for having a depleted roster and getting off to an incredibly late start for recruiting. There were no PGS to be added to Horner’s class. Lowe did everything he could to get the PG who went to Georgetown. At the time, an older, more mature transfer like Degand was probably the best available option for this season. He even was doing OK until he ripped his ACL.
Lowe was put behind the 8 ball from the first day he was hired. The situation he walked into was made much worse after the mismanagement of the coaching transition by our athletic director.
Anyone with an affinity for reality knew the team would lose to UNC and Clemson and will probably lose to a very solid Miami team (although being at home, it may be close). I’m not going to officially panic until we lose to GT and FSU.