Despite the holidays, we’ve posted a ton of stuff to the site in recent days…so, if you haven’t been visiting a lot then we ask that you don’t overlook some of our entries like the ACC expansion pieces and our comprehensive “BC fans” piece.
===> We obviously followed the Wolfpack’s win over Western Carolina closely. (See link) Pack Pride has a lot of links in their Web Run, including a link to Andrew Jones’ report card that includes the following grade on intangibles:
State intangibles: At some point State is going to be humbled enough to understand it just can’t walk onto the floor and beat teams, even ones like Western Carolina. Coach Sidney Lowe said his club was tired, that some players are playing a lot of minutes, etc. Ben McCauley - who never made such excuses a year ago when nearly 40 minutes was the norm for State’s top players - said coming off a (quick) trip to Seton Hall and playing two days later affected the team. There’s no excuse to only lead WCU by a point with 3:27 left, especially when you’ve already lost to New Orleans and ECU and have been pushed by several other mediocre-to-bad teams. The Wolfpack notched the victory and it required some toughness and smart play on offense to do so. For that, it deserves credit. But there’s just no reason this team should ever take anyone lightly. That’s on the staff and the players. Grade: F.
===>I know that a lot of fans are very frustrated with the Wolfpack’s tendancy to play ‘down’ to their competition as highlighted in Andrew Jones’ previous comments. I don’t criticize anyone for feeling this way as it obviously frustrating. However, as it relates to yesterday’s game I am going to make two mitigating points:
(1) State outscored Western by 21 points in the second half. 21 points in 20 minutes. I don’t have a problem if you were frustrated by the effort in the first half. However, you may be choosing to be just a little too negative if you allow the negative to define your perspective of the entire afternoon. As bad as the first half was, the second half was equally good.
(2) State was playing only our second game without starting point guard, Farnold Degand. Fans looking for blowouts need to remember that the point guard has the ball in his hand more than any other player on the court and therefore dictates the direction of the game. Even with Degand we aren’t built for blowouts like some teams.
===>Seaking of ^point guard, I was doing the math on Farnold Degand’s knee injury the other day. I am very happy to see that Coach Lowe has requested a medical redshirt from the NCAA in light of Farnold’s circumstances.
===>With ^that said, I am going to say something that those of you who like to keep your head buried in the sand won’t like and those of you who come to SFN for honest and accurate conversation with appreciate - especially if Degand gets an extra year of eligibility, I foresee a significant log jam at the point guard position in the future that can only be fixed by the transfer of more than one player currently on the team. During the year when we will be recruiting all-everything point guard, John Wall from Raleigh’s Word of God High School, the Wolfpack’s roster is projected to include FIVE (of 13) scholarship players who project to play the point: Trevor Ferguson (R-Jr); Marques Johnson (Jr); Farnold Degand (potentially a R-So); Javi Gonzalez (So); and Julius Mays (Fr).
===>For overall scholarship distribution and for the talent distribution of the point guard position while trying to recruit John Wall, I would expect that Trevor Ferguson has little to no future of playing time at NC State. Additionally, if Javi Gonzalez continues to project behind both Farnold Degand and Marques Johnson while NC State tries to land John Wall, then one has to wonder if Gonzalez will want to stick around Raleigh for all four years?
===>Few teams have been as pleasantly surprising this year as the University of Miami Hurricanes. Heading into the weekend the Hurricanes were ranked in the Top 20 with an 11-0 record and had seen the RPI as high as #2 in the country! But, to the detriment of the ACC, the Canes lost at home to previously 6-5 Winthrop. No word from the NCAA if the game counts when no fans show up to watch.
===>Speaking of RPIs, NC State fans will be happy know that Wolfpack is currently at a very solid #38 with two cupcakes ahead before entering ACC play. As I previously commented, as long as we can get out of the out of conference at 11-3 then the strength of the ACC will solidify our RPI and create a situation where the Wolfpack can secure an NCAA Tournament berth (before the ACC Tournament) with an 8-8 conference record.
===>The following are few RPI’s of interest now that we are about 35% to 40% through the season:
(5) UNC-CH
(10) Michigan State
(18) Duke
(32) Villanova
(36) Florida State
(38) NC State
(40) Clemson
(49) Seton Hall
(50) Indiana
(52) Miami (FL)
(54) UCLA
(57) Boston College
(60) Virginia
(62) Georgetown
(72) Georgia Tech
(79) Wake Forest
(96) Virginia Tech
(104) Arizona State
(107) South Carolina
(128) Florida
(143) New Orleans
(151) Rider
(157) Davidson
(170) UNC-Asheville
(171) East Carolina (thanks NC State)
(172) Maryland
I agree with many of those commments. While WCU isn’t a tough team overall, it ended up being a good test for us two days after a big road win. The more tough situations we face, then the better we will handle them down the road.
According to Packpride, we are not among Wall’s top four or five teams. Is there some inside track by Lowe et al the rest of us don’t know about? I’ve been worried about us stockpiling PG’s that seem below the caliber of the pre-Sendek/Robinson period and of most of the other ACC member institutions. Is Mays a stronger player than he appears on paper at this point? (3 star, apparently lightly recruited)
With all the attention on Wall I don’t see us coming up with him signing. Some out of state school who offers him some bling or a new whip will get him a la USC. With that being said I have full confidence in Sidney getting it done with the personnel that we have. He took a mediocre team last year without a true point guard and still put up 20 wins. I like those recruits that fly under everyone’s radar a la Rivers who was also a 3 star recruit!
It is so early with Wall. He certainly has been on campus many times. I understand many more schools are getting involved and we are also looking at other PGs as well.
I hope none of these guys transfer…someone has to ride the bench.
We lack the killer insinct of our 2 close neighbors. For some reason we are unable to extend leads and put people away. This lets lesser teams hang around until the last few minutes when a hot shooter(Hinnant) or a stupid foul or mistake (Fells’ intentional foul) can cost us a loss to a lesser opponent.
Wall and Leslie led Word of God past DeMatha in the Holiday Classic at Broughton yesterday. We have Leslie committed and we need Wall no matter who has to sit or transfer. Go get him Sid!
Not that I don’t want Wall I’m not going to get my hopes up! If we get him I’ll be soooo excited but if we don’t get him I have faith that Sidney will get it done with whoever he has playing…. GO PACK!!
I think Mays is supposed to be smart and solid. It sounds like he’s a better shooter than Gonzalez.
Our PG situation is very much like our RB situation in football. We probably over-recruited the postion - but aren’t you glad we did?
Regarding our game vs. WCU - it looks like we’ll just have to get used to this kind of thing for the short term. I’m not thrilled w/ the way we played, but we won. The good news for all Pack fans is that we have positioned ourselves for an at large bid w/our performance OOC.
The bad news is that we’ll be playing a lot of mediocre teams who will beat us if we play like we did vs. WCU. Remember, we didn’t miss the tourney last year because of the way we played against UNC and VaTech - there’s a possibility if we could gave won 2 or 3 regular season games vs. GaTech, Miami, 1 of 2 games vs. UVA, Clemson, or BC. With the exception of GaTech and the game at UVa, I was disappointed in our effort in those other games.
Like I said earlier, big games seem to bring out the best in this team and staff.
MJ has asserted himself as the point guard. I look for his minutes to increase to 28-32 minutes in the ACC season if Javi does not progress very quickly.
JJ’s upside is tremendous. He will only get better and should be a monster by March. His attitude and effort are tremendous.
FF, BC, Fells and Ben need to concentrate on consistent, excellent effort in every remaining game. Their experience will be vital when combined with consistent effort in the ACC season.
Horner is a solid contributor. When he regains confidence in his shot, he will be very important for us.
I hope Tracy Smith gets significant minutes in the next two games. Given the chance, he could develop into a solid contributor for 8-10 minutes per game in the ACC season.
Simon Harris has great work ethic and I like him for 5 minutes to rest Fells on a tough defensive assignment.
Sid has us moving in the right direction. One day we will look back on the hiccups and bad breaks of Sid’s early years and realize that these were character builders for our return to the upper echelon of college basketball where we belong. Go Sid and Go Pack!
GG not FF–sorry.
I thought that Mays is a 2guard who can play the point if necessary.
Is WOG an accredited school that can send athletes into NCAA programs? I thought it was on the NCAA’s list a few years back. It is nice to look at players like Wall and eventually CJ Leslie, but will they be eligible from that program?
I think that Coach knows these guys better than any of us and understands progress and peaking at the right time. He knows that every team is different and deserves a different plan. I’m not concerned that they don’t all look like they’re giving 100% on every play. The best players in history had an instinct for choosing their moments and not wasting energy. I love the way that MJ looks out there with our wings and love how we’re not panicking more about the bigs’ minutes the way we were several weeks ago. I predict 10-6 in the conference and a 3/4 seed.
I thought Ferguson was considered more of a 2 or at least a “combo” type guard. Despite his reputation, couldn’t Marques Johnson also be considered in the latter category? Nevertheless, there’s a glut as you speak of and it bodes against maybe acquiring Wall (Didn’t know we were not listed in his top 5 but isn’t he buds with CJ Leslie?)
I certainly agree with a lot of the other fine points, but feel an 8-8 record would place us squarely on the bubble. Maybe with one or 2 ACC Tourney wins we’d be in? Although NO/ECU are two inexcusable losses maybe I’m not giving our other OOC games enough stock.
I could see Javi transfering.
” He took a mediocre team last year without a true point guard and still put up 20 wins.”
A lot of people don’t appreciate just how good of a PG Atsur was.
Mays is one of the leading candiates for Indiana’s Mr. Basketball. He’s also a 90%+ FT shooter and a 40%+ 3PT shooter. Word out of Marion is that he’s a better 1 than 2, but plays a lot of 2 because his team needs him to (they have another guy or two that are good players at the 1)
Doug you said “I’m not concerned that they don’t all look like they’re giving 100% on every play.” Holy crap! You must be very happy with an extremely mediocre team then. That’s all they are if everyone of the players are not giving 100% on every play. I do not watch the NBA because noone gives 100% until the last 2 minutes of the game. I’m pretty sure Sid did not bring the NBA philosophy with him to NC State, although watching this team makes you wonder sometimes.
I expect fewer players to get playing time as the season progresses. If you have not seen enough from someone on the team, then you may not get a chance to see them until mop-up duty from here on out. The time for experimentation is past (I hope) and it’s time to nail down the rotation.
State has not looked good for most of the “preseason”, so I’m not sure what we can expect to see when the real season starts. How people are still projecting 10+ ACC wins is beyond me. The team will need to show improvement just to reach Jeff’s mark of 8-8. Let’s hope we see lots of improvement.
VaWolf - I think it all depends on how this team will treat the majority of its conference games. If we treat every game like we did VaTech or UNC last year, or Seton Hall and Nova this year, we’ll do well. If we play like we did so many other games last year and like we have against our crappy non-conference foes this year- we’ll definitely be lucky to get to 8-8. I think we’ve shown thus far this year, if we show up flat, we’re capable of losing to any Division 1A school in the country.
Maybe Scout has said that we aren’t in Walls top 5 but I don’t remember anyone on Packpride saying it.
As was proven with Hickson and others, scout’s top 5 isn’t always accurate and is usally late to update.
regarding the comments from andruw jones and the n&o article today, i am getting more than tired of the excuse making when things don’t go well for this team …
“we have tired legs … etc.”
BS
i love sidney and the team but let’s leave the excuse making and “we only beat ourselves, we didn’t actually lose” BS to our light blue neighbors down the street
show up ready to play … if the other team beats you then give them credit … and if you lose b/c you weren’t ready to play or took a team too lightly then for goodness sakes admit it (to yourself), learn from it and move on
gut check please
go pack
Too many PGs? We stil don’t have one good one on the roster.
I would like to see us borrow one tactic from UNC-CH. The line change. When we show up with our heads up our asses and turn the ball over the first five possessions, I’d like to see Sid put five new kids on the floor and let the starters watch what effort looks like. You can’t tell me our second string couldn’t at least hold their own against Western Carolina.
You do have to give the team credit for the second half, but outscoring the Catamounts by 21 in a half shouldn’t be anything special. Granted the point guard issues, etc., but they had no one that could stop JJ and never will recruit anyone capable of stopping him.
I agree with Rochester. I love it when Roy doesn’t think he is getting acceptable effort from his starters. He yanks all 5 at the same time and then he goes down the bench and chews them out individually while the second team hustles their asses off. When the starters go back in, they usually go on a huge run.
Keep in mind that just because a coach doesn’t give the answer you think he should that he doesn’t really know the situaion. When Sid said “we were tired” I thought it was classic coachspeak.
Sidney’s smart enough to not dog his team publicly…keep in mind that he has had to handle some chemistry issues so far this year. That doesn’t mean that he and the staff will mince their words in the locker room or at practice.
Good point RAWFS. I also think that Gavin getting to finish the game watching may have been a case of Sid sending a message as well. Something like: “You may be a senior and you may have been outstanding the last few games, but that doesn’t mean you get to take this one off.”
Good points. The fact is that every player cannot be on all the time. When crunch time comes, you have to go with the 5 who are helping the team the most and playing the best to finish the game. I think WCU was a good lesson for GG.
Watching JJ, I am reminded of the Al McGuire line: “You have got to get the ball to your aircraft carrier in the paint.” WCU was a great example of that philosophy.
Also, pray I’m wrong, but watching Costner so far this year reminds me of Andrew Brackman’s soph. year. Sure hope he doesn’t have some nagging injury that’s not been made public.
“Is WOG an accredited school that can send athletes into NCAA programs? I thought it was on the NCAA’s list a few years back. ”
You are mixing them up with another school. They have very high academic standards.
For what its worth, Wall told a friend of mine Memphis and Kentucky lead.
BC did have a knee injury in the summer and he is just starting to get over it.
If you read all the quotes from the players, they are fully aware of our thoughts on the team’s weaknesses. I suspect we will see a complete game next Saturday for the first time.
A PG logjam may not necessarily be bad if several of them develop– especially the 3 pt. shot. With the plethora of PG experience on the coaching staff and looking at the recruiting situation, one might wonder whether Sidney may eventually go with a 3 guard offense, which would certainly open up minutes. This would in theory allow for more running (which should excite many readers here) and more pressing (ditto). Just something to consider when glancing over the projected roster down the road.
We need to play better defense and/or make some perimenter shots to even remotely come close to realizing this teams true potential.
The defense has been good at times, ghastly in stretch’s, but never really excellent. The best is to hope for some consitency and more timely zone looks (triangle/box). Some sort of full court pressure at key moments would be exciting IMO. Could you imagine CF, or GG as a center fielder?
The perimenter shooting could not get much worse, we have to be at or near rock bottom as a unit. I don’t know any cause/ or cure alls for this epidemic. CF, BC, DH, and Javy have all missed many WIDE open looks this season. The misses a so bad that they are barely reboundable (is that a new word I just came up with?). Like I said, how to get better is anyone’s guess since it’s just a matter of catch a shoot. These players have been practicing it their whole lives and why they all decided to suck at it at the same time is baffling.
“Is WOG an accredited school that can send athletes into NCAA programs? I thought it was on the NCAA’s list a few years back. ”
You are mixing them up with another school. They have very high academic standards.”
Rick - Are you sure about that? Word of God was on the NCAA no-go list in 2006, I just wondered if anyone knew if that has changed.
“Officials at Raleigh’s Word of God Christian Academy were stunned Thursday that they were on the list of schools from which transcripts would not be accepted for NCAA play. A Word of God student could be admitted to college but would not be eligible for NCAA competition.”
http://www.newsobserver.com/122/story/458244.html
Good point Doc ^,
MJ could fill in at the three just as easily as the two in a couple years in this type of scheme. Just looking at possible returning letterman for the ‘09 campaign,
PG: Javy, Mays
SG: Degand, Fergy
SF: MJ, Cj
PF: JT, Horner
C: BC, TS
That would be news to me.
vtpackfan, Tracy Smith is way too short to be a center. If you’ve ever seen him on the court, he’s shorter than Grant. I’d be surprised if he was over 6′6″ (no matter what the roster says).
Here is a positive that represents a real change in our program - we are currently second behind UNC in free throws attempted per game at 27.8 (28.3 for UNC). We lead the league by a very wide margin in terms of free throws per possession. Obviously, Hickson has a lot to do with this having attempted 90 free throws. Grant is also fouled a lot because of his strength in taking the ball to the basket. If we can just get stabilized at the point, turn the ball over a little less & get a little better outside shooting we are going to put extreme half court pressure on our opponent’s defense.
^speaking of tracy smith, his body type and stature really remind me of greg buckner from clemson … if smith could have that type of career here that would be awesome
i always liked how buckner played while at clemson (of course smith is a forward and not a great shooter, but their body types are similar to me)
Off the topic but about one of our own–Dereck Whittenburg received a contract extension through the 2012-13 season at Fordham in eary November of 2007 according to ESPN.
SFN: ^ We know. We ran an article about it at the time. Link. Not being saracstic - but we do have a search function on the site as well as a new “Archive” tab that allows people to peruse by dates. In the future, we will also be using “tags” to help with site organizaiton.
Sorry, I missed that. I just ran across it and thought it might be of interest.
Word of God has been cleared by the NCAA:
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1120761/
The whole story is quite interesting. The NCAA put them on the list without any communication from the school. When the NCAA received a letter requesting the reason for their inclusion on the list or the school would begin legal action, the NCAA removed them from the list.
Despite this team’s struggles, it is evident that they are improving. Cases in point…
JJ- Now responding much better to double-teams. His moves are quicker and his outlets more sure.
BC- Playing with much more energy and contributing with RB’s, assists and D instead of just sulking over his (continuing) struggles on O.
GG- A better leader by the day and starting to impose his will at times.
DH- Putting out real defensive energy now. Needs to shoot more readily but he’s back in the rotation.
Mac- Back to his high IQ game (mostly) and no longer sulking.
D- MUCH better effort, posture and a willingness to pressure the ball far out on the perimeter. Rebounding has gotten WAY better.
O- Better flow and ball movement with a lot less of the ineffective 2-man game from early in the season.
So, we’re getting there but still have a ways to go. To me, the biggest issue is that we just aren’t shooting particularly well. In particular, neither Costner nor Horner have been very sharp and Mac did not add much range during the off season (would have been a HUGE positive for his minutes). Since we are not a pressing or trapping team and we don’t play with Duke-like defensive intensity, we simply cannot be “explosive” if we cannot hit a high percentage from the perimeter. Eventually, the zones will come. Unfortunately, there is every indication that MJ, despite encouraging support play, isn’t going to improve matters (in fact, Degand was clearly stronger & more willing from the perimeter) and Javy has shown no indication of gaining shooting confidence.
In the end, our best hope for optimal performance seems to be increasingly effective D and better showings from Costner and Horner.
I would like to see more consistency on offense from Fells personally.
A few super quick thoughts before closing down shop and starting New Year’s festivities…
First, this SFN entry is SPOT ON on all points…
I understand that many fans will wonder openly why “We lack the killer insinct of our 2 close neighbors. For some reason we are unable to extend leads and put people away.”
But, as SFN as pointed out, until we have ELITE talent at the point guard slot or at least EXPERIENCED top 100 talent at the point guard slot, we are ALWAYS going to be inconsistent in games, not be able to blow people’s doors off, and be forced to grind games out for wins. HOF Roy said as much the other day.
Gavin and the boys want to blow people out just like UNC and Duke do, but we don’t have Ty Lawson talent running the show like UNC does or have dagger 3-pt bombers like Duke does. We had no ELITE point and only set shooters under Herb which ultimately undermined him and kept fans frustrated, and that’s where Sid has had to start. Until Sid can correct those deficiencies with recruiting, we will be a grind it out team who has to show up every game, play D, hit the boards, and be efficient on offense without making too many costly turnovers. In football, they used to call that a “3 yards and a cloud of dust” team if they were good or a “just don’t make mistakes” team if the offense was less than good. That’s us right now. We have Trent Dilfer at quarterback, not Joe Montana, and the only way we are going to have much success this year and next is if the boys step up and play D and the boards like Ray Lewis and the Ravens did. The wins that come will be ugly most times and you need a lot of luck too to go along way with such small margin for error.
As far as recruiting goes, you can bet your arse that Sid is recruiting hard for the point guard slot—among any and all ELITE talents that they think they can get that “fit.” And, sadly, as SFN has pointed out, that will likely mean the eventual exit of a player or two. Everyone on the team has been given a fair shot by Sid. Some guys remain as insurance. When insurance is not needed, then it is what is best for both parties. It is not personal. Fortunately or unfortunately, that is life. If you don’t accept that reality, don’t expect an upgrade in talent or results. You are not going to beat teams of Grade A ELITE talents like Ty Lawson very often or blow other teams doors off very often if all you have to counter with is Grade C talent—especially in a guards’ game like college basketball is. As the old saying goes, “don’t bring a knife to a gun fight”…unless you enjoy pain and misery…because you are not going to win many of those.
^I don’t know if you were at the game on Saturday, but Fells did come in from the left side ONCE like he was going to slam on anybody and everybody in his way. He was fouled in the act and didn’t make the shot, but I asked the guys sitting around me why in the hell Fells doesn’t do that every other time down the court.
I mean, besides just being fun as hell to have that physical ability and try to take straight up on taller players, why can’t he see that if he challenges inside he would greatly help the team by opening up the middle, or least get a chance to score from the free throw line. He says his dreams are to be NBA player, well Corey, you maight have some of the necessary physical gifts required for that level, but what good are they if you’re afraid to use them.
I’d love to have that ability for one game, I’d be forcing it inside just to see who thought they could get high enough to block my shot. Anyway, Fells is a mystery to me.
I’ll say on other thing about Saturday, the players were no less “tired” than the fans/crowd of people in the RBC. I could have taken a nap if it wasn’t for a screaming WCU fan up above me in the nose bleed section.
I’ll say ONE more thing about Saturday in the RBC, they had a great opening with Jimmy V up on the jumbotron. Lee Fowler, or whoever decided it was OK to put Jimmy V up there in Raleigh again, it was emotional and great see. I commend whoever put that together.
Redfred, they have had that intro with Jimmy V for every game I’ve attended this year. I agree it is great. Now if they would only change the intro music to Lunatic Fringe it would be perfect.
That screaming WCU fan was about 5 sections over from me. Too bad our guys were playing so bad. There was nothing to cheer about on our side for the first 3/4’s of the game to drown him out.
The screaming WCU fans were in section 314 or so. I could see them out of the periphery of my oxygen mask from 316. Another point I would make about the Jumbotrons is that they put WAY too many ads up and not enough useful stat info like FG% etc. I only saw that up at the half.
This team reminds me of several of V’s teams… capable of beating or losing to just about anyone at any time. Maybe that bodes well come March.
If we don’t see some significant improvement though, I could see as few as 6 ACC wins based on our schedule this year. If Johnson picks it up and the team gels, 10 is not out of the question.
Perimeter shooting bothers me as much as PG play though.
While a 5 star point guard is great, it is not all that is necessary for a team to have a killer instinct and put teams away. Concentration, committment and going full throttle when you have a 9 point lead with 14 minutes to go are vital in order to extend that lead to 20-30 points by the end of the game against lesser opponents. Everyone has to buy into this attitude, not just the point guard. UNX puts lesser teams away not just because of Lawson but also because Hops-borough, Ginyard, Ellington, Green, etc. refuse to let up no matter who they are playing. They refuse to let an easy game be close 98+% of the time. That is what I was trying to say earlier. I think Sid will build this into our program over the next few years. People will graduate/leave/play out their eligibility over the next few years with links to the prior system, and soon Sid will have a team consisting entirely of his recruits. These guys will be indoctrinated into Sid’s system from Day one, and they theoretically should give a much more consistent, high level effort no matter the opponent. Happy New Year!
You can call it “killer instinct” or whatever, but there is some kind of funk hanging on this team right now that makes them pretty much all seem as if they’re totally content with just getting by. There is one exception but we all know that riding that one dimensional horse is only going to ruin the rest of the team.
I had a long post about the individual players, what the press was saying earlier, and so on. But what it all boils down to is that I thought I saw a mentality that was in place and established late last season. Right now I am wondering just what it is going to take, or IF, and how much longer it will be before these kids really start playing like they have something to prove again.
Sweet Jumper & RedFred,
I don’t totally disagree with your points about the team’s “killer instinct” and the potential for doing better than they have so far, even without a 5-Star point guard.
The problem is that we don’t even have a 4-Star point guard with any experience (at best, MJ is a 4* SG with zero experience converting to PG), and we don’t have any bullets in our gun (i.e. shooters) to kill anybody. We need to defend & rebound better in order to be able to run (even though we are a slow team) and get more easy baskets, That would help a lot, but, other than that, we are slow and have to plod around and set up the halfcourt set with multiple passes in order to play to our only potential advantage, the front court. Guys like Ty Lawson can make it look easy by taking it coast-to-coast on their own and guys like Taylor King can make it look easy by bombing you out from the logo when you thought you were playing good defense. We don’t have those luxuries. Unlike the best and most consistent teams in the country, we have to work hard for about every score we get. We have to work hard to beat a good team like Nova while still having to work hard to beat lesser teams. Nothing comes easy for us. We have little margin for error.
I agree that we can do better, but I think people underestimate how gigantic and far reaching the effects of (1) not having an ELITE talent point guard or at least a top 100 talent point guard with EXPERIENCE, and (2) not having shooters have and will continue to have on us.
Just look at Wake the year after Chris Paul left. I was at the game when Paul led Wake to a big defeat of eventual national champion UNC. The very next year, without Paul, Wake was bottom of the barrel. Justin Gray was a dagger shooter with a killer instinct, but he was subpar without Paul running the show. I have played ball against Chris “Creedy Cree” Ellis, and I can tell you that guy was a fierce competitor, even in pickup games that did not matter, but he and the rest of the talent they had like Eric Williams were lost without Paul at the point.
Reverse that and look at what playing with John Wall is doing for CJ Leslie. Does anyone really think Leslie—or any other big guy for that matter—will reach his full potential if he does not remain surrounded by talent out front to set him up and spur him onward? The biggest problem with NC State basketball for the last many years has been that we have, as of yet, never matched the marginal/NBA talent on the wing and front court with NBA talent out front directing the action. How good would Brandon or JJ be or become if they had joined a program led by a future NBA point guard or a marginal/NBA talent at point guard with experience?
Not having talent and/or experience at the point equates to a loss of leadership and respect and confidence. Atsur wasn’t surpremely talented, but he was experienced and had the respect and confidence of Brandon and Ben and the guys as a leader. When Atsur was around, the team was good. When Atsur was out, the team struggled trying to find its identity without a clear leader. This year’s team is having the same problem which is no reflection on Degand, MJ, or JG personally—it is just that neither of those guys have the talent or the experience to demand respect and crack heads if need be. A guy like Lawson or Singletary could step in and crack heads based on their talent and reputations, and our team would be a championship contender with those guys. If Bobby Hurley could punch and fight with Laettner to get everyone on the same page, then lord knows a guy like Brandon would have to get in line if a guy as fierce and talented as Singletary were in his grill in practice all the time. A guy like MJ could become a leader like Atsur OVER TIME, but it is simply an uphill battle right now—he will have to earn the guys confidence and respect gradually. Until then or until an elite level point guard talent enters the mix through recruiting, we are Trent Dilfer on offense hoping a Ray Lewis defense emerges to help us win more than we lose.
Look at pictures taken from the WCU game at wral.com.
http://www.wral.com/sports/image_gallery/2231226/
At least from some of the pictures, MJ looks like he is taking a leadership role on the team, and he seems to play with a cocky confidence which is something that we need right now at the PG position.
I find it strange that we’re considering Costner (A power forward) and Horner/Grant (small forwards) our consistant 3 point shooters, but I suppose it shouldn’t be that much of a surprise since they are Herb recruits.
Fells must know when his shot is off, because he doesn’t seem to shoot a lot in games when he misses his first few shots, which lends into the theory someone said here beforehand that when Fells makes his first 3 pt shot, that he’s in for a big game.
I could honestly see this team beating Carolina at their house, only to turn around and lay an egg when VT comes home. We’re inconsistent, which has to be scary to Roy when he knows that his team is playing their hardest, but has no idea what our “Hardest” is.
Dan Wiederer wrote an article about the GSK Invitational in the Fayetteville Observer today. He talks about how good John Wall and CJ Leslie are and how great they can be. Wall led his team past Larry Drew’s (UNX point guard signee) team in the semis. It would be great if Sid can sign Wall or another 5 star point guard to stick it to Drew for several years. I hope Leslie can learn about work ethic from JJ before JJ goes pro. According to his coach, he can be a superstar if he develops good work habits.
More help with our RPI………Cincy knocks off Louisville in L’ville! We’ll need it with the screw ups in the UNO & ECU games. Anyone see that ECU lost at home to Lee College!? of the NAIA division? Unreal that we lost that game.
Ferg will never play point, he’a a back-up 2.
Mayes will be an step-up at PG once he gets in the mix. Keep an eye on L. Brown for ‘09, a 5* PG out of GA.
We’re also evaluating ‘10 PGs Taylor & Thornton.
We really will need a 5 on the ‘09 class. Kelly & Favors would be nice!
How about letting Lowe do his job? Yes we lost to at least two teams we should have beaten but we have not played a cupcake schedule either. It would have been much easier to play the cupcakes and have a 150-50 lead with Leatner, Ferry. Hurley, etc., still on the floor with two minutes left in the game (as I have seen happen before) or Lowe can give his guys a chance and try to build a foundation. Nobody knew Hickson would be as good as he is and nobody knew Degand
would get injured. Give Lowe a chance
“We had no ELITE point and only set shooters under Herb which ultimately undermined him and kept fans frustrated,”
niether did most other teams, they don’t grow on trees.
Herb’s PGs:
Miller - top50
Crawford - top70
Hodge - top10
Atsur - not ranked (easily top 100 if ranked)
Bethel - xfer
Wright - top15, changed his mind after Herb left
Oh boy, THE DEFENDER is back.
I’ll guarantee you one thing packgrad93, none of those kids were as highly ranked when they LEFT Raleigh. And really, that’s all US TRUE WOLFPACK FANS are really concerned about anyway.
^Correction, Atsur came in as a solid player with leadership qualities and he did improve, even during his conversion into “the system”.
“niether did most other teams, they don’t grow on trees.
Herb’s PGs:
Miller - top50
Crawford - top70
Hodge - top10
Atsur - not ranked (easily top 100 if ranked)
Bethel - xfer
Wright - top15, changed his mind after Herb left”
You are a complete idiot—and a reaching idiot at that.
Miller was a 5′ set shooter who was incredibly limited on defense. Sorry if you bought into that top 50 ranking and Archie’s potential to lead the program to championship contention. You should have seen that NOT coming, just like you should have known Adam Simons would NOT be the “next Nowitski”.
I would have rather had Steve Blake, national champion and NBA point guard, than Cliff Crawford, “the best point guard I have ever seen” according to Herbie at the time. Very unfortunate evaluation there, Budda…
Hodge was not even a point guard, so you obviously only list him so you can brag about Herb’s “great” recruiting. If he was such a great recruiter, then logic would say that he, in turn, was a crappy coach based on his mediocre results.
Atsur was a set shooting combo guard more suited to being a role playing 3-pt zone buster than a lead guard if we were talking about a championship contender. You know, kind of like Bobby Frasor, more highly ranked than Atsur ever dreamed of, did for UNC (backing up ELITE pg Ty Lawson) before his injury. In Herb’s program, of course, role players like Atsur and Evtimov were forced to be the stars. Hence, why State fans suffered when it counted. You know, like when a real coach guided Bobby Frasor and 2 walk-ons to a “rivalry” trouncing of Herb’s senior laden decade-in-the-making-team by 24 on its home floor at the RBC…
Bethel was a set shooting combo guard ranked outside of the top 100 when he went to Gtown.
I can’t believe you list Chris Wright as some great accomplishment for Herb and the program. It took Herb over a decade to get to Chris Wright. And, still, he doesn’t even start for JT3, who rebuilt Gtown from the dumps into a title contender—before Chris Wright even got there—in about 1/3 of the time it took Herb to make State simply mediocre. How was JT3 able to beat UNC and go to the Final Four without Chris Wright when Herb fans told everyone not to worry about the drubbing by UNC’s walk-ons or the Texas beat down—just WTNY after this NY when Chris Wright gets here!
I don’t give a damn about your stupid pitty rankings. The fact is that Herb picked Cliff Crawford in his quest to make downtrodden State into mediocre State while Gary Williams took Steve Blake and made downtrodden UM into ACC and NCAA champions. Maryland, GT, Wake, Duke, UNC, and countless programs throughout the nation were able to land ELITE point guards and shooters/scorers all over the Herb Sendek DECADE…Herb never did, and that’s why he failed to win the ACC. If Sid fills in these deficiencies, he will succeed. If Sid does not, he will fail to win the ACC just like Herb did.
Shooting guard, Thanks for responding to packgrad93’s delusional evaluation. You saved a lot of us a great deal of typing time.
“Miller was a 5′ set shooter who was incredibly limited on defense. Sorry if you bought into that top 50 ranking”
yep, & when I say Herb’s recruiting improved over the years all the bashers bring up how it didn’t cause Archie/Kelley/etc were top50 just like Fells/Powell/Brack etc..
“I would have rather had Steve Blake, national champion and NBA point guard, than Cliff Crawford”
hindsight is 20/20
“Hodge was not even a point guard”
what was he then? not a shooting guard or small forward. He was at his best at PG creating. What position is he playing in the NBA?
“You know, kind of like Bobby Frasor, more highly ranked than Atsur ever dreamed of, did for UNC ”
unc has/had more talent than 99% of other teams, not just us.
“yep, & when I say Herb’s recruiting improved over the years all the bashers bring up how it didn’t cause Archie/Kelley/etc were top50 just like Fells/Powell/Brack etc..”
I don’t disagree with your assertion that Herb’s recruiting