Southern Pigskin Omits Rivers from All-Decade Team

Alums General NCS Football Rankings & Lists98

Southern Pigskin has attempted to put together an All-ACC football team for the last decade. You can see the team here.

I guess I have to respect them for trying, even if they made a significant whiff on the most important position on the field.

I’m guessing that their ‘rationale’ for putting Chris Weinke on the team ahead of Philip Rivers is based in Weinke’s Heisman Trophy and FSU’s National Championship. BFD. The Heisman is largely a product of playing for such a strong, National Championship team…and is representative of ONE SEASON.

I appreciate the inclusion of Terrance Holt at one of the safety positions…but, I am not sure that Holt is even the best safety at NC State in the last decade, let alone the entire conference.

In a related entry, you can click here for a great look at SFN’s 50-Man All-Amato Team.

We’d love to hear your thoughts.

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Alums General NCS Football Rankings & Lists

98 Responses to Southern Pigskin Omits Rivers from All-Decade Team

  1. noah 08/01/2007 at 10:10 AM #

    They put Peppers there because of what he’s done with the Panthers. He only had one good season with Carolina. Mario Williams was much better in college.

    I wouldn’t put Gaines Adams on there either. He was a top NFL prospect and he’s got great athleticism…but I don’t think he was all that effective or prolific at Clemson.

  2. Mr O 08/01/2007 at 10:18 AM #

    When you consider Terrence Holt’s impact on the kicking game, then maybe he does deserve it. From the Texas game(two punt blocks) to the Indiana game(crucial FG block), he either put points on the board or kept points off the board as much as any special teams player that I can remember. Even when he didn’t block FGs, kickers missed a very high percentage of FGs just because of the intimidation factor. It would be interesting to see our opponents FG made% in Holt’s four years versus the years after he left.

    Tough call on Weinke vs. Rivers because of Weinke’s accomplishments, but there really isn’t any doubt he is the better pure QB.

  3. noah 08/01/2007 at 10:25 AM #

    Both safeties are sort of questionable. They aren’t up to the caliber of the rest of the defense…but I can’t really think of any clear-cut omissions there.

  4. LRM 08/01/2007 at 10:31 AM #

    Noah, I agree. Mario was better in COLLEGE than Peppers. Every college football fan knows Peppers had loads of potential (which came out once he decided to actually start putting forth effort in the NFL), but the fact that he took so many plays off in college just made him look lazy.

    Gaines Adams is a bit of a stretch, I think. He was great, absolutely, but he wasn’t the absolute beast Mario was in college, and he actually played more like Manny in that he was part LB, part DE.

    I rememeber losing to Clemson in 2001 when we had them 3rd-and-15 plus several times late, which meant nothing to Woody Dantzler. That was the worst 8-point shallacking we ever took.

  5. RedTerror29 08/01/2007 at 11:03 AM #

    Rivers was head and shoulders above Joe Hamilton, who was head and shoulders above Weinke.

    Peppers and Mario had very similar numbers in college (as well as measurables coming out of college).

  6. highonlowe 08/01/2007 at 11:25 AM #

    And that’s why no one reads the Southern Pigskin.

  7. lush 08/01/2007 at 11:28 AM #

    I agree about the saftey position. Maddox and Wilson were both better safties than Holt. He did block a lot of kicks but I would much rather have Wilson.

  8. lush 08/01/2007 at 11:31 AM #

    And Rivers finished his career with the 2nd most passing yards in the history of college football, broke every ACC QB record, and is a pro bowler in the NFL, yet Chris Wienke is the best QB in the ACC over the last decade??? How on earth is this possible. This the same guy who threw 6 interceptions in 1 game vrs and unranked team. Unbeleivable

  9. Mr O 08/01/2007 at 11:36 AM #

    No way would I take Maddox over Holt. Wilson was a better safety, but he only played three years.

  10. chris92heel 08/01/2007 at 11:45 AM #

    There’s some misremebrance going on with JP here. Mario was MUCH better?

    One good season doesn’t give you 50+ tackles for loss and 30 sacks. Mario had more TFL’s and less sacks.

  11. chris92heel 08/01/2007 at 11:48 AM #

    As for Weinke – tough call. He was great at FSU and led them to two national championship appearances. Probably would’ve gone back-to-back titles if not for the neck injury in 98.

  12. lush 08/01/2007 at 12:03 PM #

    ^ so is it about the better qb or the better team? if your going with the results of the team, then sure, have you a Wienke. if it is about who is the better player it is Rivers hands down. put Rivers on FSU during those years with those recivers and that defense and they win 4 national titles.

  13. chris92heel 08/01/2007 at 12:15 PM #

    No question Rivers is the better player, but its hard to top Weinke’s accomplishments in college. Put Rivers on that team and FSU probably would have been roughly the same. Would they have beaten OU? Who knows.

    QB above all other positions get credit/blame for winning and losing. When a qb loses like 3 games in 3 years and his team plays for the title 3 years in a row he’s going to get props over a QB from a program that didn’t have as much success.

  14. MadWolf92 08/01/2007 at 12:17 PM #

    “… but its hard to top Weinke’s accomplishments in college.”

    … except if you’re Rivers.

    Or are you talking about his *team* accomplishments??

  15. lush 08/01/2007 at 12:44 PM #

    “No question Rivers is the better player”

    well then there you go. southern pigskin must have chosen that position based on whose team had the most wins.

  16. LRM 08/01/2007 at 12:45 PM #

    QBs are almost always the product of their system and are rewarded for winning games, period. Philip was on a team with a very poor defense his senior year; that team finished the regular season 7-5. Weinke won a national title and a Heisman because he was the leader of three outstanding football teams.

    Philip’s greatness we’re all aware of. He couldn’t erase his one horrific performance of his senior year (@ Wake) with a victory over Ohio State the following weekend. However, he came close. I choose to define Philip by that 4th quarter at Ohio State and the perfect game against FSU later that season that If T.A., Clark, and T.J. each fumbled away. We win that one and Philip is invited to NYC and this is an entirely different conversation.

  17. JimValvano 08/01/2007 at 1:54 PM #

    You know…really…Matt Shaub was pretty good.

    I’d take Rivers over all of them, but really as far as ability goes…I just don’t see Weinke as being better than Shaub…just on a better team.

    I’d also like to see the stats on the linebackers.

    I just don’t necessarily understand their method of doing this list. Are they including people based on the hype or on the stats? If Weinke was so good then why was Rivers taken 4th overall to his…ummm…3rd or was it the 4th round.

    I think we should come up with our own list.

  18. CaptainCraptacular 08/01/2007 at 2:04 PM #

    *FSU probably would have been roughly the same. Would they have beaten OU? Who knows.*

    I am of the opinion FSU lost to Oklahoma for 2 reasons:

    1) Mark Richt had taken the job with Oklahoma, which was a major distraction for their offense

    2) Their #1 receiver Snoop Minnis was suspended for the game for academic reasons.

    FSU really missed Minnis in that game, and its clear the offense was distracted with Richt leaving. Those 2 things made OUs good defense look like one of the all-time best. And because of that, its my opinion that game exposed Weinke as being an average QB who could not carry the team when it needed him.

    There is zero doubt in my mind FSU would have won that game had Rivers been the QB. He made people around him better. Weinke was good, but didn’t make people any better, he was only as good as his receiving core talent and his outstanding Offensive Coordinator Richt.

  19. CaptainCraptacular 08/01/2007 at 2:06 PM #

    ^ Sorry taken the Georgia HC job.

  20. noah 08/01/2007 at 2:27 PM #

    Julius Peppers had a forgettable freshman year (as did the rest of the UNC squad), an average sophomore season and was outstanding his senior year. He doesn’t belong on the list. It’s also why Ryan Sims isn’t on the list, despite having one season where he was as dominant as Corey Simon.

    Since joining the Panthers, he’s gotten into incredible shape and learned how to play hard every single down. For the first time in his life, he’s gotten some excellent coaching. (He sure as hell didn’t get it at S. Nash, where they had him playing RB who was scared to get hit.) That’s why he’s probably the best defensive end in the NFL.

    But when he was drafted by the Panthers, a lot of people wondered why the Panthers weren’t taking Joey Harrington or Quinton Jammer and were lamenting not getting a shot at David Carr.

    As far as the safeties go, despite a career-ending injury (against us), Poindexter was pretty damn solid every single year. So was Terrance Holt. Adrian Wilson wasn’t. He was a backup toooo…Rodney Redd, I think(?) as a freshman and was sporadic as a sophomore and then became a force as a junior and went pro. As an NFL player, he’s continued to grow and that’s where he’s done his best work.

    IMO, Rivers belongs as the QB because his numbers are vastly superior to Weinke (they’re vastly superior to every ACC QB) and because he did it for four years.

    Jerricho Cotchery belongs on the list, IMO. He and Warrick are the only two players in league history with 200 catches and 3,000 yards. Cotchery’s entire body of work is even more impressive than Torry Holt’s…since Holt got hurt as a sophomore and didn’t play much as a rookie.

    Jeff Saturday belongs on that list on the OL. He was a rock-solid anchor in the middle for Carolina.

  21. JimValvano 08/01/2007 at 2:59 PM #

    Okay okay that’s it.

    So we’re all pretty unanimous on Rivers at QB

    QB-Rivers
    RB-???

  22. waxhaw 08/01/2007 at 3:21 PM #

    They’d look equally ridiculous for leaving off a Heisman Trophy winner. IMO, it’s a very tough call at QB. Maybe they should go old school and put both in the backfield.

  23. chris92heel 08/01/2007 at 3:27 PM #

    Noah, your memory is usually spot on but:

    “Julius Peppers had a forgettable freshman year (as did the rest of the UNC squad), an average sophomore season and was outstanding his senior year. He doesn’t belong on the list. It’s also why Ryan Sims isn’t on the list, despite having one season where he was as dominant as Corey Simon. ”

    Thats just inaccurate bo. As a sophomore he led the nation in sacks and was 1st or 2nd team AA by just about everyone.

    As a junior (I assume thats what you meant by senior?) he was even better though his stats were down due to attention from opposing o-lines. Still had 10 sacks, 20 TFL, and 3 INT’s.

    I agree that he’s gotten better as a pro but he was a great college player.

  24. noah 08/01/2007 at 3:36 PM #

    Hmm…I am going to have to revisit Mr. Peppers’ college career. I might be conflating two years.

    As far as QBs go, I don’t think you’d look ridiculous leaving off a Heisman trophy winner. I don’t think anyone would try and tell you that the best college QB at Miami was Gino Torretta. Nor would anyone tell you that the best ACC QB was Charlie Ward.

    On the RBs, they probably got those two right.

    If I made a list of the top ACC running backs of all time, I’d include Jordan and T. Jones in my top 10. The best all-time running back is probably Warrick Dunn.

    I know people are going to want to put Ted Brown on there, but while Brown had more yards, he played in a run-first offense and Warrick Dunn’s yards-per-carry are unmatched. I’m not going to look right now, but I think he averaged something like 6.5 yards per carry for a career. AND he played in an offense with four great WRs, a good passing QB, and an offense that played out of the shotgun most of the time.

  25. treznor 08/01/2007 at 3:43 PM #

    Leaving a Heisman winner of the list would just point out what most people already know, that the Heisman doesn’t go to the best player. It goes to the best player on the best teams.

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