Fresh off Sidney Lowe’s first Raleigh Caravan, our blogging minds have turned back to basketball - particularly, Wolfpack retro. As a fun off-season exercise, a few of us brainstormed about rough comparisons of the 2007-08 roster to Wolfpackers of the past. Please share your own comps and thoughts in the comments section below. Our memories are very sketchy before the early 80s, so we are counting on the collective wisdom of our readership to cover prior decades.
- Degand = Cliff Crawford, Kelsey Weems
- Fells = Ernie Myers, Cam Bennerman, Scooter Sherrill
- Grant = Ishua Benjamin, Ernie Myers, Brian Howard, Jeremy Hyatt
- Horner = Walker Lambiotte, Andy Kennedy, Ilian Evtimov
- Smith = Brian Howard, Levi Watkins, Lorenzo Charles
- Costner = Thurl Bailey, Kenny Carr, Tom Gugliotta
- McCauley = Chucky Brown, Kevin Thompson, Evtimov/Todd Fuller hybrid (passing and low-post moves)
- Hickson = Chris Washburn (without the negative off-court baggage), Charles Shackleford (ditto)
- Johnson = Nate McMillan, Mickey Hinnant, Kenny Matthews, CC Harrison
- Javi = Curtis Marshall, Lakista McCuller
- Thomas = Cam Bennerman, smaller Kenny Carr, Brian Howard
By way of disclosure, the first listed comp is mine - not the consensus or “best” comp for the player.
I think Fells & Grant have higher ceilings than some of those other players. If they work on getting a consistent shot I can see them in the NBA.
Fells could be a team leading star in the NBA if he wants to be. He could be on SportsCenter every night just about.
Explosiveness coupled with inconsistency is why I think Myers is a proper comp for Fells. Wasn’t Myers like a Top 10 recruit? Consistency was more of an issue than his “ceiling.”
I really think Grant is morphing into Ishua - can’t handle the rock enough to play PG (despite playing there sometimes out of necessity), also with an inconsistent outside shot. Both are dynamic athletes from the SF position, and Ishua became a defensive stopper when he accepted his role as a senior. Grant can do that too, if he puts his mind to it.
I like the Thomas/Brian Howard comparison…Brian was not looked to for offensive fire-power, but was a consumate role guy: some rebounds, passing, could score…as V called him, “The glue of the team”. In a couple of years that could be Thomas.
How about a Javi/Justin Gainey comparison?
^Fells definitely could be on SportsCenter everynight, but I think now it would be like a Pippen/Iverson highlight reel– you could watch him hitting 10 of 12 or missing 10 of 12 in a game.
Overall I really like these comparisons. Made me think of a few players I haven’t thought of outside of ESPN Classic in a while. With Hickson, I see his immediate impact as a Thorton/Inge type player (I like to have low expectations for freshmen).
I went to Louisburg College with Mickey Hinnant, what a great guy. I haven’t thought about him in years. Hinnant was a man alongside boys in that Junior College gym in Louisburg. Man that brings back memories.
BJD95- Speaking of Ernie Myers and his ceiling, I recall watching a game on ESPN classic in March where the announcers absolutely RAVED about Ernie Myers. This game was freshman year I think, and it could have been one of the State/Carolina games that season.
I thought Myers best year was his Freshman year when DW was hurt.
I like Marcus Melvin on the Costner list.
I really like that you included Brian Howard. A very underappreciated player. If Gavin Grant plays this year as well as Brian Howard did his senior year, we will be ecstatic. I like Grant way more than many on this site but he doesn’t do anything as well as Howard.
^Would love to see Grant become the defensive stopper like Benjamin but just don’t see it. I think Fells has a better chance to fill this role.
Remember, the defensive improvement from Ishua’s junior to senior seasons was dramatic. It came when he finally accepted the fact that he wasn’t going to be an offensive star. I agree that Fells could possibly do this as well, but his body type is very different from the Benjamin/Grant mold.
^BJD95 - agree with that.
I do think Fells & Benjamin are quicker than Grant and this is a big factor in becoming a defensive stopper.
I hope this posts in a readable format, if not feel free to delete it. FYI Look at the free throw % his Sr Year.
Myers, Ernie
NCSU
Manhattan, NY
6′4 - 203
Yr Cl Min MPG FGM FGA FG% 3M 3A 3FG% FTM FTA FT% PPG
– — —- —- — —- —- — — —- — — —- —-
83 Fr 744 21.3 150 336 .446 17 51 .333 74 122 .607 11.2
84 So 719 21.8 120 300 .400 - - - 74 103 .718 9.5
85 Jr 543 17.0 95 211 .450 - - - 38 59 .644 7.1
86 sr 943 27.7 114 275 .415 - - - 88 106 .830 9.3
too bad there are no corchiani and monroe comparisons, yet.
hopefully at the end of next season we can add them to degand and javi, and fells and johnson
“I agree that Fells could possibly do this as well, but his body type is very different from the Benjamin/Grant mold.”
I hope this does not happen.
He has such potential tha tit would be a shame to see Fells become a stopper only.
I really like the list SFN, but wanted to share a few comments. I don’t see the Jeremy Hyatt/Gavin Grant similarity. Hyatt was a much better shooter and did not have Grant’s ability to post up smaller forwards. From what I’ve seen, I’d liken Hickson to Inge with similar explosiveness around the basket. I also see a little bit of a Chuck Kornegay in Tracy Smith’s game. It’s great to be excited about the future of Wolfpack basketball again while also looking at the past!
I see Costner as sort of a taller, better rebounding Hawkeye Whitney.
Haven’t yet seen Smith in action, but was under the impression that he was a ‘true’ PF. Sounds like you see him as more of a SF/PF mix?
Oh, I also forgot to mention the obvious comparison with Smith and Kornegay’s eligibility issues. Tis a shame.
^Yeah, now come on…someone here must know something about Smith’s situation. Spill it baby!!
We’ve heard that Smith is capable of playing both forward positions. He needs to work on some things to be a starter-caliber “3″, but it’s a reasonable projection.
Wow, I had forgotten all about Chuck Kornegay. What an explosive talent. Remember when Les was quoted as saying that his grades were worse than Chuck’s (when he was suspended for academics)?
Yeah BJD95, I vaugely remember Les saying that. It seemed like there was some controversy around Kornegay’s GPA in 93-94 before he transferred to Villanova the next season. I think they won the Big East with him there in 95 and 97.
Remember when Ishua Benjamin arrived he was more of a scorer than when he left. He lost his shot after his freshman year. But started his career at State with some 28 or 29 points in his first game ever.
^ True, but he was nowhere near as effective in ACC play. And his offensive effectiveness steadily decreased over the next few years.
I have no doubt Gavin Grant would have had 20+ scoing nights as a freshman, had he played on teams that were as bad as Ishua’s.
i find it interesting that none of the current players were compared to any of the current coaches? sid? towe? QJ?
How about McCauley as a Vann Williford? Extremely hard working, alway hustling, and fan favorite. Horner as a Steve Walker?
I considered listing QJ as a possible comp for Javi. I don’t see Sid or Towe in any of our currrent players, though.
skywalker,
i remember ivan wagner had 29 points in his first game, i dont remember ishua “most defineatly” benjamin doing that. i was really unhappy when ivan transfered to memphis(i think), i thought he was going to be a great player for us.
What about Anthony Grundy? He led the team in points, rebounds, steals, and assists his senior year. Grundy was the best player and most determined player the last two decades of basketball at NC state. Hopefully one of our new 1 or 2 gaurds will turn out to be the next grundy…..
Wags transferred to Texas.
Osh’s first game in a State uniform was also his highest-scoring. He hit for almost 30.
Ishua had 29 points in the first game of the 95 -96 season, Nov. 26th 1995. Wagner went on to play for Texas.
Ishua also had 22 and 20 points in the Kansas and UCLA games at the start of his Freshman season.
Courtney Fells = Al Green. A better athlete than a basketball player.
McCauley is very similar to Lorenzo Charles. A down on the blocks, drop step oriented, can finish with either hand, classic low post guy who is under 6′10″.
Ivan Wagner - I had forgotten about him. I can’t remember what his career ended up looking like, but the kid could fly. Another interesting discussion would be reviewing all of the “if he’d stayed …” players like Ivan, and the “If we could only have sealed the deal” players like Stackhouse, etc. Cool concept, hope the new kids live up to the old.
SFN: Wagner ended up as an all-conference point guard playing for Rick Barnes and won a Big 12 Championship in Barnes’ first season (when he took over a scandal-ridden program that only had 6 scholarship players).
(sarcasm) So glad that Herb ran off Wagner so that we could recruit the likes of Rhouldra Thomas.
I just hope a PG one day compares to either Terry Gannon, Monte Towe or Sid Lowe.
I thought Terry Gannon was a 2?
SFN: Terry Gannon was most definitely a two-guard. Perhaps the previous poster was trying to refer to Vinny Del Negro.
if they had stayed all stars….
mike bell, ivan wagner, dominic mejia, adam harrington, damien wilkins, who else, i know there is more.
mike bell was unbeleivable in high school, i went to enloe and graduated in his same class. watching him and wilcox play every week, i thought bell was the sure NBA prospect. he was like a poor mans kevin durant, awesome to watch, incredible passer, dribbler, and shooter for a 6′9″ guy. i never understood why he got no pt under herb. then again i didnt understand much about herb.
^ big difference between HS & ACC
^ fair enough,
however i do remember hearing that he transferred to some division II or III school and averaged close to 30ppg
How big a difference is there between HS & ACC? Is it bigger than between ACC & NBA, or Jr. College & ACC? Just wondering??
^ good question.
seems to me like wilcox was given an oppurtunity to play and he turned it into a millon dollar career. i bet mike wishes he had the same oppurtunity, since he was better in HS, and hates herb more than anyone here can possibly imagine.
^Yep, that’s right, you get to play “in” HS.
But not “for” HS.
Osh scored 29 on Prairie View A&M I believe. I also think that was during their record losing streak. Mike Bell had chronic knee problems and then transferred to Florida A&M maybe and won that conference player of the year award.
“however i do remember hearing that he transferred to some division II or III school and averaged close to 30ppg”
where is he now?
i remember the knee problems, tendenitis i think, but didnt he get a medical redshirt? i could have sworn he was sitting on the bench with two perfectly fine knees his second year
i have no idea where he is now, cedar. my guess would be europe.
Mike Bell went to Florida Atlantic and was Atlantic Sun Player of the Year in 2004-05. Had over 1000 points and 500 boards in his two years. After the 04-05 season, he signed w/ a team in Turkey. His career averages at FAU were 18.5ppg/9.5rpg.
He, (Mike Bell), was playing in Turkey, but don’t know if that’s still the case.
Bell finished his college career at Florida Atlantic…which is almost as bad as D-II.
He averaged 19 points and 9 rebounds as a senior. Played for Sidney Green, I think.
As for currently, it looks like Bell last played for a team in Spain. No way in hell am I paying for premium access to this site though .
http://www.eurobasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=TUR&team=1048&option=Tuborg%20Izmir%20%20(TUR-D3)&Cntr=TUR&logo=troy.gif
Long link, I don’t feel like taking 15 seconds to go to tinurl, and I doubt many will want to look at a long euroroster anyway; but for those who do it is above.
wow you guys are thorough. i tried to google it, i could only find his florida atlantic points and bords per game.
Brief jog down memory lane …
We talk about point guards and how bad we need one, my favorite of all was Chris Corchiani. Yes he was short and had no shot so he wasn’t the best ever, but he was a wizard with the ball. I can clearly remember several occaisions of him bringing the ball up court and someone trying to guard him and he’d stick his butt into the guy and sometimes the opposing player would end up laying on Corch’s back. Even then Corch kept dribbling until the foul was called. That was a fun team.
PapaJohn said:
“Yes he was short and had no shot so he wasn’t the best ever, but he was a wizard with the ball. ”
Half-right. Corch was a wizard with the ball AND he could shoot extremely well. He had a set shot that didn’t translate well to the NBA game but he was a very good shooter - better, in fact, than Bobby Hurley, who is generally considered one of the top 10 guards in ACC history.
Corch and Hurley had identical career 3-point shooting percentages (41%, which is outstanding), but Corch was better from the field (46% to 41%) and from the line (82% to 78%). Their scoring averages were virtually identical has well, with Hurley averaging 17 a game his senior year and 12 for his career (Corch averaged 16 and 12, respectively) Considering that Corch was also a more efficient ball distributor (8.4 apg to Hurley’s 7.7) it’s hard to argue that Hurley was better than Corch.
I think the most balanced comparison between Hurley and Corch was that they were virtual equals on the court - both incredible college point guards who excelled at ball distribution AND scoring. Hurley just had the good fortune of playing with a better supporting cast than Corch.
Corch won the college 3-point contest his senior year. Beat Monroe in the final!
Hurley also played something in the low teens more games than Corch IIRC. Hurley went to how many FFs. Corch made it the tourney too alot, but we rarely went more than 2 games.
I still liked Lowe better. He never made a mistake.
Lowe is hard to beat just about in any way. He was always cool and in control, never rattled or intimidated by anything, and a point guard who could create a score, for somebody, whenever needed. Also, Monte Towe, from back in my glory days, was also a smart, tough, BB player. He created turnovers with hustle and just knowing where the ball was going to be. Even at his height, he was a big plus on the defensive end. He very rarely turned it over, could shoot the ball when defenses sagged inside, and he is probably the reason the term “Alley Oop” was invented.
My two personal favorites, in order, anyway. But, who here doesn’t like a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP caliber point guard from N C S T A T E.
Looks like we could have some possible Whitt types being recruited. Jarrett Man ‘08 SG and Deleware POY, and Noel Johnson ‘09 SG out of GA.
…Jarrett Mann is how he spells it. Was supposedly a shoe in to sign with Stanford, but after turning alot of heads at camps he is re evaluating. Great shooter with a ton of confidence.
PapaJohn, I agree that Corch was great. My all-time best memory of a State PG has to be Monte, though. It’s a toss-up between those two for me. I loved Sid, too. Another one of my favorites of all-time who is hard to compare is SPUD! He was great! No one like him! Anyone care to list their all-star NCState team? I’ll go with
1. Monte/Corch
2. Rodney/Vinny
3. DT/Chucky/Julius
4. Thurl/Googs
5. Tommy B/Shackelford
Well, it was fun just to think about it…. I’m sure I’m missing a bunch, but those are good top 11.
Okay, I just realized I left out Sid and Whitt!! I apologize!! Washburn is the ultimate, “what could have been.”
Smith as Danny Strong and his enormous wristband
I have to disagree with the Horner comparisons. Is it because they are all white? Horner stuck with us — Lambiotte and Kennedy transferred, and were not alot like Horner. I’d almost compare Horner more to a shorter Googs. Or even alot like Chucky…Especially, after only his Freshman year. Horner may surprise some folks….he has got one sweet shot, although his release needs to be quicker.
Horner is also alot more “athletic” than Elian, and he’s shown the ability to take folks off the dribble — something Elian, Lambiotte, or Kennedy rarely did.
Corch was not “short”. He was about six feet which is fine for a PG. Spud was “short” but played very tall.
I never knew Corch beat Rodney in the 3-point contest his senior year…Good stuff. He had a good shot, hence the tons of points in H.S., but it was more of a set shot and had a tough time against taller defenders on the perimeter.
BTW, I don’t think Tracy is going to qualify…he would have signed by now. Can a non-qualifier practice with the team and play the next semester — or the next year???
Qualifying has nothing to do with signing, however Tracy supposedly signed his LOI last week
Is Hickson “amphibious” like Chris Washburn? lol
i think he has signed .would say 95% . waiting on second sat score to come back . to make it off.
Shackleford was amphibious, not Washburn…as I said, I don’t think Smith is going to qualify…whether he signed an LOI last week or not, which I don’t think he did. I hope he qualifies, but it’s not looking good.
My favorite Corch memories are all of the games he played against Duke. Won some, lost some, but for 4 years, K was stubbornly determined that he could press Chris, and everytime Corch would eat the Duke press alive.
Chris Corchiani was the absolute best north-south dribble-penetrator I ever saw.
He didn’t have incredible speed and quickness like a Kenny Smith or a Kenny Anderson, so he couldn’t put a drop-step or crossover on you, but he could beat you to that one spot on the floor where he had just enough leverage to squeeze past the defender. Then he’d get into the lane and was brilliant at these little wrap-around passes to the big guys collapsing from the edges.
“whether he signed an LOI last week or not, which I don’t think he did”
I think he did
One more about Corch:
Does anyone remember his recruiting? There were a couple of great HS point guards out there, King Rice and Corch. Carolina decided that “the King” was the better player and focused on him. So there was a great deal of discussion their freshman year who was going to be the better PG.
HAHAHAHA
That discussion didn’t last long.
We don’t out recruit the Heels often, but we sure did that time.
BTW, we’ve got some posters who either have incredible memories or are great researchers! I had no idea Corch was that good a shooter. I went to a ton of his games, and video taped them all (kept them for years till my wife got sick of them) and I remember frequently feeling frustrated that he either didn’t take the critical shot, or didn’t hit it. He was certainly the epitome of the ‘pass first’ PG. I had also forgotten he was 6 feet, but he didn’t look it. He was built kind of like Sid and didn’t look as tall as he was.
We have certainly been fortunate with PGs. And with Sid, Monte, QJ, and Justin on staff, you’d think we’d be a magnet for more great ones. Hope so!
In the 3-point contest, Rodney had an incredible semifinal round, where I think he only missed 3 or 4 of 25 shots. He was worn out in the final, and Corch had his best round of the day. Watching the two of them square off was outstanding. I would have taken time to cherish it more if I knew what the rest of 90s were going to be like.
King Rice was, IIRC, THE prominent point guard in his class. He was a top-10 player. The top guards overall were LaBradford Smith (Louisville) and Eric Manual (UK) and Rodney Monroe, but among the point guards…King Rice was considered the best by everyone.
Corchiani was considered a top-50 guy and was ranked alongside point guards like Elliot Perry (Memphis State) and John Crotty (UVa) and Sean Miller (pitt…yes, that Sean Miller).
LaBradford Smith and Delino DeShields were the two big variables. Everyone loved their game, but figured they’d sign to play baseball. DeShields did, Smith ended up sticking with basketball.
Manual ended up getting busted after cheating on his SATs and was barred from ever playing NCAA-sanctioned basketball. He played NAIA ball and then played in Europe. UK ended up getting busted with the Emory envelope and faulty glue headed for LeRon Ellis.
The top player in the country was Larry Johnson, but everyone knew he wasn’t going to qualify. The next best player was Marcus Liberty, but everyone was reasonably certain he wouldn’t qualify either (he didn’t). Manual and Ellis got taken down a peg…so that meant the top incoming freshmen were Rice, Brian Williams (Maryland), Smith, and Dennis Scott (Ga. Tech).
(BTW, Scott almost ended up not qualifying. Seems like I remember him setting some record for the most number of times taking the SATs before getting a 700. Seems like he took it 25 times or something.)
Rice got to UNC and pretty quickly, everyone realized that he wasn’t especially fast and he couldn’t shoot. I remember reading Dean Smith’s description of him and Smith said, “He isn’t the best shooter, or the quickest guy, or the best ball-handler….he just finds a way to beat you.”
Well…not really. I never saw him play in high school, so I have *no* idea why everyone was so high on him. He was a smallish, plodding, no-shooting, average-passing guard. A good backup, in other words.
John Crotty would have gone to UNC with a big ol’ happy smile on his face, as I understand it, so I’m glad they passed on him. It became pretty clear early on that Rice was at the back of the pack in terms of skills. I remember him making exactly one big shot in his career….against James Madison in the 1989-90 season. Carolina was struggling heavily at the beginning of that year and they were in danger of losing to Lefty’s squad. At the end of the game, Rice hit a double-clutched, wild 15 footer at the top of the lane that banked in to win it.
Other than that…the only memorable thing he did was run over Quinn Snyder at the end of the 1989 ACC tourney championship game in Greensboro and get called for the charge. That pretty much gave Dook the win.
I think that was 1989…might have been 1988.
^^I think he did
I hope he qualifies, as I think he’ll be a nice addition, but not a big requirement for next year, as I think we’ll be okay in the 3-4 spot.
noah, you researched, ALL of that can’t possibly be coming from memory, can it? If it is memory, or even 60 percent of it, I yield to your supreme brain power.
Don’t answer that question, great post, I’m impressed either way. GOOD stuff!!!
I had the very good fortune of knowing a *lot* of people who were involved in college basketball and recruiting around 1987 to 1989 or so. I consider myself a near-expert on those classes.
What class was Grant Hill in? Class of 1990? For some very odd reason, I know next to nothing about that one. I think that must have been the year we were on probation and couldn’t recruit…so I didn’t marinate my head in recruiting knowledge about that year.
BTW…if you want to see something really impressive (or sad…take your pick), pick my brain about the 1983 Atlanta Braves. I can tell you the entire lineup, pitching rotation, stats, bench players, the state of the Braves’ minor league system (Miguel Sosa, Brad Kominsk, Paul Zuvella, Gerald Perry, Matt Sinatro…), and a whole bunch of specific games. I remember Joe Torre bringing in Tony Brizzolara cold against the Dodgers when he hadn’t had a chance to warm up, how RJ Reynolds OWNED the Braves pitching, how a coked-out Steve Bedrosian gave up a potentially game-winning homer to Greg Brock one day and then got bailed out when Bob Watson hit a pinch-hit two-run dinger in the bottom of the ninth. I remember Terry Forster’s “feud” with Letterman over his playing weight. I remember Claudell Washington’s hamstrings. I remember Brook Jacoby and Rick Behenna and a “player to be named later” being traded for the bucket of spit known as Len Barker and how Ted Turner tried to convince everyone that the PTBNL was NOT Brett Butler. I remember Bruce Benedict’s 20+ game hitting streak (he’s now an ACC ref, BTW). I remember Biff Pocaroba and Jerry Royster and Terry Harper. I remember when Dodgers had a backup catcher named Jack Fimple….
I remember…Raisin Bran.
“I hope he qualifies, as I think he’ll be a nice addition, but not a big requirement for next year, as I think we’ll be okay in the 3-4 spot.”
I agree that we’ll be ok next season if Tracy doesn’t qualify, but I get worried about after that. JJ could be one & done, Costner might make the jump too. We’d be left with Ben & Horner
Lineup
1. Brett Butler, LF
2. Rafael Ramirez, “SS”
Lineup
spoon
bowl
cereal
milk
Mr Noah, you are the master! Great information, thank you. I do remember that when he came in, we knew Corch was going to be great - that was not a surprise.
I read in the N&O yesterday that a gentleman has compiled all of the stats from every ACC basketball game ever played, with box scores and game summaries. Unfortunately it will cost $300, but there will be cheaper, school specific versions. You sir, need that book.