Poor Ben Braun. There may be one coach in all of college basketball whose personality is less vibrant than Braun’s; but that one coach may the one who ultimately gets the California Head Coach fired.
Check out this link that discusses Cal’s 41-42 loss this weekend to (previously) 1-14 Arizona State. You read that correctly. 41-42. In a college basketball game. In a major conference, In 2007. With the shot clock. And three point line.
After losing to Arizona State 42-41 Saturday, Cal is the No. 8 seed in the Pac-10 Tournament and will likely need to win three games just to make the NIT. Those mere 41 points, yep, lowest output since 1988. Hell, the football team put up more than that on multiple occasions.
The Bears have lost 10 of 12 and that man pictured? Yeah, Ben Braun’s chair might be getting warm. He has one of the longer tenures in the Pac-10, but he really hasn’t done much at Cal, and while injuries have decimated the Bears this year, to lose to Arizona State at home?! Friggin’ Arizona State?!
In fact, the ‘big’ ASU win moved the Sun Devils out of the cellar of one guy’s power ratings.
If you remember, Herb Sendek’s NC State Wolfpack eliminated the Cal Bears from the first round of last year’s NCAA Tournament. For some fun, you can review the entry from last year’s NC State win.
Wasn’t it also Cal that eliminated us in Herb’s 2nd trip?
SFN: YES. OT. First round. Scooter missed a shot at the buzzer.
You know, I’ve tried to have nothing but good will for Herb, but it’s not working. I really do want him to fail. I don’t know why, but I think it’s to prove all the media repeaters (not reporters) wrong.
Sorry, Herb. I tried. I really did.
“9. Arizona State - Not at the bottom anymore. Two wins feels like 10 for Herb Sendek. ”
Perhaps that explains it…2 wins, 10 wins, whats the difference!?!?
^^Yes, let’s root for the failure of a man who brought us to 5 NCAA tourneys in a row, to the ACC championship game more times than Jimmy V (God rest his soul) (and yes, I realize Valvano actually WON more, just hear me out). Let’s root for the failure of someone who tried to do his job in one of the most hostile areas in the country.
Okay, I can understand saying ‘he didn’t get us far enough.’ That’s fair. But to wish him ILL after the fact that he DID bring us back from the depths that we were at when he arrived? That’s cruel.
He was a part of Wolfpack family. You can say he deserted, but we all know he was run out. But the fact remains he WAS family, and we have no reason to wish him anything but the best.
The former guy left us in just as bad of a shape as he inherited. Sidney is busting his can to keep five guys healthy and on the floor. The former guy had five decent years and five crappy years so don’t distort the facts. The curse is gone so let’s move on…we have a very good coach now who gets it.
Be VERY careful on this thread.
“Okay, I can understand saying ‘he didn’t get us far enough.’ That’s fair. But to wish him ILL after the fact that he DID bring us back from the depths that we were at when he arrived? That’s cruel.”
I completely agree. Give ASU some time, they’ll be very good with Herb.
If you’re interested in coaches with NC State ties, Dereck Whittenburg’s Fordham Rams play tomorrow at 2:30 in the Atlantic-10 tourney. They finished 10-6 in conference this season, a new school record for conference wins. His roster is full of solid juniors, so they should be even better next year.
I’m with you a little bit Lock.
As boring as the princeton style was to me, I did like seeing our boys shoot the lights out occasionally…..and I can admit I wasn’t thrilled with him leaving.
However, as most things in the universe, loss gave way to something greater gained, and Sid is leading us to the future.
I’m actually a pretty decent ASU fan, most of that stemming from Pat Tillman, so I’m going to pull for Herb some. Plus, have you ever been to ASU? Besides all the hot little college girls walking around, it’s going to be one HELL of a place to try and get a basketball following. That is a football school all the way.
Maybe that lack of fanaticism is just what Herb needed for a couple of years to get his “game” back on track?
Remember when this guy was billed as a Rick Pitino protege’?
Maybe the folks in the desert will get lucky and get that coach.
ASU will be ‘very good’ if they aspire only to mediocrity. I’m sure Herb can take them there.
My psychic ball sees in 2009 This NCAA tourney matchup 1st round
5 NC State
12 Arizona State
That would scare me a bit due to the 5-12 factor, but it would be the most watched 5-12 in a long time, and I think even Herb might show emotion.
Actually, I don’t mind if Herbie gets success there- Arizona St is a program that could use Herb’s level of success. That said, what’s good for them isn’t good here in Raleigh. Also the PAC-10 has more crap teams, so he should be able to scarf enough wins to get into the tourney regularly by year 3 or 4…
Swordfish, you enjoyed seeing our guys shoot the lights out every now and then? We have shot lights out every now and again this year. Creating a game plan where you must have a “lights-out” shooting night is not a plan to rely on. I was so sick and tired of seeing the 42-41 games. I was sick and tired of seeing the long stretches of time with no points.
Look at the ASU scoring - it is the same thing. They go periods of 7-8 minutes wiht no points, check the patterns.
I might be the oddball, but I would much prefer to go 9-3 in football with a bunch of nice kids, rather than trying to 12-0 with a bunch of thugs and criminals. I would also rather watch fun, competitve basketball, with a team that scores in the 70’s-80’s than a team that scores 40’s-50’s. I would not want to follow a team that has its best chance of winning if the score is in the 40’s-50’s.
Wow, 41-42. The Herbivores must have been on the edge of their seats… or at least put their nachos down and sat up a little bit.
Good luck to Sendek, and in the same breath, I’m glad I will never watch another Sendek-coached team play basketball. (Unless we play ASU in a 2/15-5/12 NCAAT first round matchup)
“let’s root for the failure of a man who brought us to 5 NCAA tourneys in a row, to the ACC championship game more times than Jimmy V (God rest his soul) (and yes, I realize Valvano actually WON more, just hear me out). Let’s root for the failure of someone who tried to do his job in one of the most hostile areas in the country.
Okay, I can understand saying ‘he didn’t get us far enough.’ That’s fair. But to wish him ILL after the fact that he DID bring us back from the depths that we were at when he arrived? That’s cruel.
He was a part of Wolfpack family. You can say he deserted, but we all know he was run out. But the fact remains he WAS family, and we have no reason to wish him anything but the best.”
Agreed!
“The former guy left us in just as bad of a shape as he inherited.”
I disagree. Herb came in after 5 straigt years of no post-season, the ACC tourney play-in game named after our coach, & little talent. Sid has a great foundation to build on & a very talented roster to add to. Big time recruits now are interested in NCSU, Herb brought that back & that is what it takes to win championships.
“Creating a game plan where you must have a “lights-out” shooting night is not a plan to rely on.”
we have that this year. Both Herb & Sid are in their 1st seasons at their new schools. Let’s give them time before picking them apart.
All I can say about Herb is…”Spilled Milk…” it is in the past. If he has a poor first year then it will be explained as a rebuilding year. If you love Herb then great go to the ASU site and have a blast or if you are like me who doesn’t really care to burn any brain cells on Herb then let’s continue to support Coach Lowe. I was at the State & UNX game when we beat them and I was more pumped and happy than any time I can remember in the past 5+ years and Sidney is in a rebuilding phase. Go Pack!
Everyone needs to stop exaggerating the positves and the negatives of the Herb era just to win arguments.
His record is what it was. It wasnt horrible. It was not outstanding.
It was a step up from his predecessor. It was great being able to watch the Wolfpack in the NCAAT.
It got old watching them receive low seeds every year, and underachieve when they got the one high seed.
The guy was not going to be Rick Pitino at NC State. In my mind, he’s like a poor man’s Dave Odom of the Wake Forest years. (ok, that last part was a bit of a joke)
I have no ill will towards Sendek. It was time for a change to be made and he made the change. But to say he left the program in the same shape he found it is just indisputably wrong. We are coming off of five years of NCAA apperances; we could not even make the NIT under Les. Don’t try and tell me that was not at least some factor in Sidney’s recruiting success so far. Also, while the quantity of talent on Sendek’s first team here may have been comparable to the quantity of talent on Lowe’s first team, is there any doubt that this year’s team had a greater quality of talent? Or which team would win if thery were to play (regardless of who the coach is)?
“Big time recruits now are interested in NCSU, Herb brought that back & that is what it takes to win championships.”
You are absolutely off your rocker. First there’s NC State, the innate draw of the ACC, then our rich tradition and history have always right there to draw from. All of those positives that were BUILT INto the formula long before ” ” ever arrived on the scene have just been wasted and damaged because they weren’t ever revisited during his tenure. NC State is just right now, THIS SEASON, beginning to recapture some of what the former coach had shunned and forsaken.
Yes! There truly are people out there who are so demented that they think that good players are interested in NC State (again) BECAUSE of Herb Sendek. No kidding. They exist.
Sendek also left us with a group of great kids. In the last two years, the team has posted a perfect 1,000 APR (Academic Progress Rate) score.
Does this year represent the best year in college basketball for the Princeton offense? Georgetown won the Big East regular season – I think this is the first time the offense has won a championship in a BCS conference. West Virginia had an incredible year after losing 5 starters, Vanderbilt had a terrific year in the SEC and Air Force is sitting with an RPI of 25. Interestingly, Sendek choose to not use the Princeton offense this year. Does anybody know if this is a permanent decision or if he just doesn’t have the right type of players this year to run the offense?
Sendek did some good things at State - just not enough. Maybe it was him or maybe it was the administration but I think it is way over the top to say he left the program as bad as he found it when he came here.
I don’t actively pull for or against ASU (didn’t before Sendek either) but I don’t wish him or that program any ill (except if/when they play State).
I think both State and ASU improved their lot and maybe with a new start Sendeck can right his ship (and no one isn’t enough to tell if he or Lowe will be successful at their current posts).
Statefans: I don’t know where to post this, but I think the DBR has lost all sense of reality. I would put this in the Duke/UNC entry, but wanted to make sure this got read(what better place than an entry about HS?)
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=22076
” If you’ll recall, Laettner walked over Timberlake and basically tapped his foot on the guy’s stomach, which earned him a technical. Timberlake was so injured he laughed and clapped his hand. His team benefited and he knew it and was pretty happy about it.It wasn’t much of stomp, ”
Unfortunately, no video. It wasn’t a tap. Unbelievable that the DBR is describing the stomp as a tap on the chest.
“Much like the coldcocking of Luol Deng a couple of years ago, it’s been forgotten. For all the talk about Duke getting breaks, there are a number of occasions when things didn’t work quite that way.”
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kQGYjHZQBAk
Does this guy really believe this play is anywhere close to what happened on Sunday?
I’d rather beat myself in the head with a sledgehammer than argue any further about Coach Sendek.
“First there’s NC State, the innate draw of the ACC, then our rich tradition and history have always right there to draw from.”
of course, but the coach has to use those things to bring in top recruits. Before Herb, when was the last time a top recruit came to NCSU?
“Yes! There truly are people out there who are so demented that they think that good players are interested in NC State (again) BECAUSE of Herb Sendek. No kidding. They exist”
There are many factors in bringing in top recruits, the head coach is one of those factors, a very important one.
Give ASU some time, they’ll be very good with Herb.
Then you interpret his time at NCSU differently than I do or have a completely different definition of “very good”. I prefer:
His record is what it was. It wasnt horrible. It was not outstanding.
I don’t know why anyone would expect anything different at ASU.
Herb has good character and has his priorities in order for life. Unfortunately he is NOT a basketball genius and his stubbornness restricts him from improving above mediocrity in this area. I expect he’ll do the same thing at ASU so they may as well forget winning any championships, although they will be invited to the Big Dance regularly for a one- or two-win run. The best thing to happen to State basketball recently was his leaving and Sid coming on board.
“although they will be invited to the Big Dance regularly for a one- or two-win run.”
that would be outstanding for ASU & a great coaching job. He won’t be there long if does that.
I remember Herb’s 1st season when he brought us from being losers for 5 straight seasons to a respectable 17 wins and NIT berth. Quite an achievement from the LR years. And I am thankful for what he did for our program.
I’ve watched several of the ASU games this season because there is one night that FoxSS (or someone) features PAC10 games. Obviously he had a losing record but was very close to upsetting some big folks and finally broke through against USC.
I expect the same from Herb out west, moderate success but I don’t expect to see him in the Final 4 either.
However I only wish the best for him.
I’d rather shoot myself in the balls with a nail gun than read this thread.
Lock is an agent of the Empire of Japan and cannot be trusted.
“although they will be invited to the Big Dance regularly for a one- or two-win run.”
and as we all know that is the pinnacle of his abilities.
“that would be outstanding for ASU & a great coaching job. He won’t be there long if does that.”
actually, he will try for 5 years to get to this point, and then stay as long as they will keep him.
“of course, but the coach has to use those things to bring in top recruits. Before Herb, when was the last time a top recruit came to NCSU?”
I think the answer to that is question right before the restrictions were clamped down on Les Robinson in his relatively tenure as HC. Which would also mean that it wasn’t too many years separated from when Coach Herb Sendek took over the program. Not enough separation in time where any new HC at NCSU couldn’t have reached back onto those memories and very much reaped their benefits back then. But Herb knew better than eveyone, he did it his way, and so and the rest of the coaches around the ACC. Some other coaches continued their winning ways capturing ACC and national titles, while others earned their first ever. But NCSU, one of the most successful programs in the history of the ACC, never reconnected or reached as far as it once had.
But you’re saying it’s totally understandable for everyone else to continue along with their habitual success stories, while just playing variations of the traditional game. Or even for others to rise above on occassion, while just playing variations of the traditional game, but not NC State, we needed a whole new direction. You’re saying we had risen above but were still being hampered by 1990, and the Les R years, even when we’re a decade removed from it.
I guess that makes it all acceptable???
of course, but the coach has to use those things to bring in top recruits. Before Herb, when was the last time a top recruit came to NCSU?
when did Herb ever bring in a top recruit that was worth a flip?
The former guy left us in just as bad of a shape as he inherited.
How many programs will not be short-handed, after a coaching change, when the incoming years recruits usually bolt to other programs, along with the graduation of three seniors and two underclassman either going pro or opting out of basketball to focus on another sport. Just tell me the team that will not be short-handed after losing 5 players from the previous year and 2/3 of its recruiting class; otherwise lay-off the “shape” Herb left this program in.
At the end I was frustrated with our inability to win big games, but Herb did bring in some much needed stability and his clean image HELPED THE PROGRAM and is what is enabling Lowe & Co. to pitch us to big time recruits. I know the clean image is a by-product of the academic support infrastructure Robinson helped create (just a side note to this rant, UNC and Duke have been able to keep getting top players, in my opinion, because of their commitment to make sure their kids can graduate, whereas Maryland has not been able to build on their recent success and has one of the lowest graduation rates in ACC Men’s Basketball), but this could’ve been seriously undercut if Herb started going after seriously marginal academic players, who got into off the court trouble.
Herb Probably Got this Guy Fired
I think if Braun was poised to go to the NCAA’s, he might still have a job. Lot’s of losses probably added up, and not just losing to ASU.
I don’t know why anyone would expect anything different at ASU.
I’ve been to the ASU message boards and being 20-10 and squeaking into the NCAA’s is just fine for them. Kind of like us annointing Sainthood an Amato, for going 8-4 a couple of years in a row and beating a less than stellar Notre Dame team. Real football schools fire coaches for not going to a BCS bowl every year, but we don’t have that kind of football tradition, so we’re easier to please. Nothing wrong for the ASU fans to be satisfied with any improvement in their basketball program, like we were (are) in our football program.
Maybe the ASU fanbase will change if they get a whiff of basketball success and demand more, or they’ll honor Herb for getting their program off the ground, like Purdue did with Gene Keady.
Either way, I hope we as a fanbase can get to the point, where we no longer need to discuss Herb.
The better use of energy would be to highlight the amazing success Derrick Whittenburg has had in getting Fordham turned around, in a very very short period of time. I think he’s been there four years and he inherited a two win squad (not two conference wins, two wins period, though they officially got two extra wins when St. Boniventure forefeited their season) and has them getting a winning record in year and maybe an NIT birth.
Whitt seems to be a good college coach, who got passed over for a lot of coaching opportunities, in my opinion, but is making the most of any chance he gets.
What are you talking about? I’m saying what I’m saying, nothing more. Herb rebuilt this program with a solid foundation, improvement & better recruiting.
“when did Herb ever bring in a top recruit that was worth a flip?”
seriously?
“Kind of like us annointing Sainthood an Amato, for going 8-4 a couple of years in a row and beating a less than stellar Notre Dame team. Real football schools fire coaches for not going to a BCS bowl every year, but we don’t have that kind of football tradition, so we’re easier to please.”
All true. But where people get side tracked is that WE ABSOLUTELY DO have that kind of basketball tradition and we aren’t going to be easy to please or make excuses because of a VERY FEW years in the early 1990’s where the program was basically put on hold.
If anyone is going to trouble of making a list of former recruits, please do not include the names of Josh Powell or Damien Wilkins as positive credits to the coach or NC State University.
^both were highly rated, esp Wilkins
Herb is a mediocre coach. That may be acceptable at ASU, but it isn’t at North Carolina State University. We’ve made the necessary upgrade at head coach to achieve greater success in the future than if we’d stayed with Herbie. The future is bright.
What year was it in Herb’s tenure in which he failed to even reach the NIT? Ah, good times…good times.
I long for the day when we talk mention Herb and have a fun - witty conversation without going all apeshit about what a saint/idiot he is.
Poor Ben Braun. Was he the coach at Cal when they beat us in the tourney?
I never got the feeling Herb “was part of the Wolfpack family.” He served a purpose here and served it pretty well, but in the end he was NEVER part of the “Wolfpack family.”
I could actually have fun in any conversation about Herb, but my posting privileges on SFN would be revoked POST-haste.
^both were highly rated, esp Wilkins
and niether worth their wieght in dung. herb’s star players scooter, powell, wilkins, adam harrington etc etc… all either transfered, went pro before they were ready, or never developed into stars.
all your doing is padding recruiting stats, sorta like his overall record.
but im sure that wasnt herbs fault, just like all his other deficiencies you try to cover up for him.
except hodge. hodge was awesome, but that is only one recruit in 10 years that panned out
GA
Agreed. He didn’t nuture anything that was here before he arrived. Nothing.
GAWOLF,
I got the same feeling also. Maybe part of his purpose was to not be part of the Wolfpack family. More and more I am convinced that along with his reserved personality is the administration in the background pushing him to avoid “the family” since the admin threw Valvano and all his staff under the bus (along with LR IMHO).
“all your doing is padding recruiting stats, sorta like his overall record.”
his recruiting record & overall record speaks for themselves.
“but im sure that wasnt herbs fault”
I’m sure all was 100% his fault right? LMAO!
“his recruiting record & overall record speaks for themselves.”
they sure do. beat the crappy teams, lose to the good ones. play more crappy teams than good ones and have a winning record.
“I’m sure all was 100% his fault right?”
ummmm isnt the head coach responsible for the program?
LMAO - what does this mean.
Because I have defended Herb Sendek from MANY personal attacks and what I would call “stupid” basketball analysis over the years (including plenty of near confrontations with rednecks who were literally yelling profanities at Herb’s wife and family in the stands), I feel completely qualified to say the following…
I totally understand why many Pack fans find that they want to root AGAINST Herb now that he is in the desert…
The media is part of it, but it is also because TOO many “Pack” fans invested so much of their “loyalty” to Herb and their argument agenda rather than THE PROGRAM—even going so far as to try to make a Pack legend like Sid look bad early in the year to feed the Herb argument agenda. So much so that you almost want to see Sendek fail miserably so that all of those “fans” will shut up once and for all about the “greatness” that was the Herb years.
Who cares if Herb was nice or not, recruited well or not, coached well or not, or developed talent well or not—the proof is in the pudding, not one ingredient you pull out and declare is good.
It took Herb 6 years to even sniff the NCAA’s, and, in 10 years (actually 11 years since Herb did not “build” for this year to be anything great), Herb brought home zero hardware and made zero trips to the Elite 8, much less the Final Four. Make all of the excuses you want about the SLOWNESS in moving forward and the TOTAL LACK of major success once rebuilt all you want, but Gary Williams, Paul Hewitt, Dave Leito, and a host of others stand ready to refute any feeble retorts. And, please, don’t say something stupid like “well, Dave Leito inherited Sean Singletary” as, sure, luck helps, but that is a pretty weak defense of Herb since his only closely comparable pg of SS stature was set to arrive as a FRESHMAN in year 12!! I am fairly certain that Dave Leito will sign a decent pg in the next 10 years—to match Herb—and, when Calhoun steps down, I am fairly certain that Leito, not Herb, will at least get an interview for the head coaching job at UConn.
Why does anyone who supposedly roots for NORTH CAROLINA State come on here to defend Herb anyway?? Herb is the past. The past is relevant only as a standard to improve upon—not something to be defended.
Why does anyone try to bring down Sid by mentioning he and Herb in the same breath as if a real NORTH CAROLINA State fan wants them to achieve the same success?? Sid is the near-term future for sure and potentially the long-term future—do ALL Pack fans not want him to achieve MUCH more than Herb did over the last 10 years?? Not that Herb and Arizona State are ever going to play for the NCAA Championship (Herb does not build his programs for that in that, in his own words, no game is more important than another), but such makes me wonder who certain “Pack” fans might root for in a title game of NC State with any coach vs ASU and Herb…
Herb will be very successful by ASU standards at ASU. He has already brought his focus on playing defense, managing every possession, and keeping the scores low to the delight of the Pac 10 which is not used to this style of play. He will use his same scheduling techniques to get to 20 wins and an NCAA berth nearly every year after the rebuilding process (normally takes 6 years according to Herb), and once every 5 or so years after that, probably, he will get ASU on a “big run” to the Sweet 16. If Herb took notes, learned anything, and applies such learning from his tenure at NORTH CAROLINA State to his efforts at ASU, he could do better and keep the non-rabid and non-lunatic fans at ASU as ecstatic as they had to be watching the big barnburner over Cal, although no one sees an NCAA Championship in ASU’s future. (Of course, getting James Harden will help such efforts a lot—do any of the “good” Herb Sendek’s fans have a problem with the way Mr Character got this recruit??)
NORTH CAROLINA State fans rightfully expect and want more than the “great” success of the past 10 years. Case, Sloan, and Valvano all did way more. Hell, even Press Maravich did way more.
Les Robinson remains beloved in a Jerry Faust kind of way because he fell on the sword for THE PROGRAM.
Herb Sendek will always be scorned by some because he stubbornly refused to fall on the sword until “the program” he supposedly did such “great” things over 10 years to “rebuild” actually needed REBUILDING of all things AGAIN in year 11.
Sid played for the GREAT Sloan and the GREAT Valvano. He won every conceivable piece of hardware as a player, MVP and Championship hardware. We will see if he can do the same as a coach. We expect him to strive to do what we have seen in the past—beat the Duke’s and UNC’s and win ACC and (hopefully) a 3rd NCAA Title. Having been so much a part of THE PROGRAM’s history, Sid knows what it is all about, so that is a start. If it turns out that he simply can’t get it done in a reasonable amount of time, then I am fairly certain Sid will fall on the sword and remain beloved as he should be as a Pack PLAYER legend…
Becoming a Pack COACHING legend entails more than a few NCAA trips and one S16…Sid, of all people, knows this—it would be nice if ALL Pack fans acted like they knew this as well…
Or perhaps his reason for neglecting the “past” and the “family atmosphere” was strictly for self-preservation? As in, maybe he thought . o O (hmmm… the more I alienate these fans and this administration from this school’s glory years the more likely my mediocre results will keep my over-payed butt in a job.)
Or maybe it was indeed just solely a personality issue as the mass media wanted the nation to believe.
I don’t know… I’m just saying…
being responsible & being at fault are different. LMAO = laughing my azz off
hahah lush is on fire, i was thinking of the exact same “highly” rated recruits that never panned out. i would also add Kenny Inge. He was a beast as a freshman, and got considerably worse and worse the longer he played under He who shall not be mentioned.
Hodge was the man. I hope he get another shot in the league. he needs to get on some HGH and bulk up. its like nascar and their cheating scandal. noone is testing these days so if you aint using roids, you aint trying. just ask bonds.
lets stop dwelling in the past…. i heard we recruited and got a commitment from some kid who plays a position called Point Guard… ive never heard of it… can someone enlighten me as to what this position does on the court… it sounds made up.
do any of the “good” Herb Sendek’s fans have a problem with the way Mr Character got this recruit??)
Shooting Guard I am no “good” Sendek fan or really a fan at all, but i Would still love to hear how Herb got that Recruit this year.
“^both were highly rated, esp Wilkins”
Boy, it took a lot longer to type my longwinded post than it did to find a post that proves about everything I said…
Seriously, who gives a crap how highly rated Damien Wilkins was or who recruited him in the first place??
How many titles of any kind did Wilkins win while at NORTH CAROLINA State?? How far did NORTH CAROLINA State advance in the NCAA Tourney with such a highly rated recruit as Wilkins playing under the tutelage of a great coach such as Sendek??
To pull out such an utterly dubious and stupid example as Damien Wilkins to prove any tiny point about any coach just shows that, as I pointed out, there is still at least one “Pack” fan out there with a “loyalty” to the Herb was “great” argument and argument agenda itself over that of the NORTH CAROLINA State PROGRAM…
Plus, it is just stupid logic proving the alternative opinion you seek to argue about…
If Damien was so great, why didn’t he pan out? Herb must suck at coaching / developing and getting the most out of such great players…
If Damien was overrated, why did Herb recruit him? Herb must suck at evaluating talent…
Somebody please buy this guy a ticket to Tempe…
Les not forget:
1991…went 20-11, and WAS the only first year ACC coach in history to have a 20 win season, post a winning ACC regular season record, and win games in both ACC and NCAA tournaments, and was named district COY
1992-93…could only DRESS seven players
1996…Les Robinson became the AD at NCSU
That was just to enlighten or refresh some memories. Now, forget all of that crapola. That was just a drop in the bucket and very brief period in the history of WOLFPACK basketball. Some of you folks unfortunately think there was nothing before then.
“the program” he supposedly did such “great” things over 10 years to “rebuild” actually needed REBUILDING of all things AGAIN in year 11.
ShootingGuard - I respect your knowledge but find it hard to attribute the empty closet this year to Herb. The early departures of Simmons and Brackman were perhaps foreseeable, but by no means certain. In addition there are a couple of freshman not on the bench who could have contributed at least as much as Horner did but chose to go elsewhere when Herb left. That is at least four players missing, two of who accounted for nearly 40% of our offense last year.
Having said that, Herb did not use freshmen much (Cedric and others) and would not play guys who did not run his defense to perfection (Scooter and others), so I have many real problems with him - and I am glad he left and Sidney arrived. I just don’t think you can blame Herb for the short bench this year.
“How many titles of any kind did Wilkins win while at NORTH CAROLINA State?? ”
We’ll never know what we could have done if his family didn’t interfear & he had stayed 2 more years.
“there is still at least one “Pack” fan out there with a “loyalty” to the Herb was “great” argument and argument agenda itself over that of the NORTH CAROLINA State PROGRAM”
why, because I don’t bash Herb like most here? I’m am NCSU alum & as big a fan as anyone here. “Fans” that keep taking shots at the man continue to make the whole fan base look like idoits.
GAWOLF,
“I don’t know… I’m just saying…”
To me that is the age old question - I see very valid points when looking at the issue from either viewpoint. Regardless, Sendek is gone and Lowe is the coach at State and the family and tradition are back - through very little help from the administration, I fear (and I’m not talking about Fowler here).
(Of course, getting James Harden will help such efforts a lot—do any of the “good” Herb Sendek’s fans have a problem with the way Mr Character got this recruit??)
Same way Herb got Archie Miller, who was top 100 or top 50 recruit or something, coming out of high school. Nothing illegal in what Herb did and if you can get a top recruit, by following the rules, what’s “shadey” about it. What Herb did was nowhere near as cut throat as what Huggins did to UNC-C, to get Beasely to come K-State, by actually hiring away an assistant, UNC-C had hired to impress Beasely. As for as hiring Sean Miller to get Archie goes, Sean is maintaining a fairly successful Xavier program, so clearly Herb didn’t bring on board a guy, with no business being on a college bench, while at NCSU, just to land a recruit. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt with whoever he hired to get Harden, having the potential to be a good college coach.
Herb Sendek will always be scorned by some because he stubbornly refused to fall on the sword until “the program” he supposedly did such “great” things over 10 years to “rebuild” actually needed REBUILDING of all things AGAIN in year 11.
Just a food-for-thought question: if no one left the program early and all our recruits came in, would we be rebuilding this year?
Note: this question has nothing to do with who the coach is, but who the available personnel are.
Herb’s recruiting was no more, or less spectacular than his W/L record. He recruited second fiddle, and his teams played likewise.
The real question is, did they, THE KIDS like Powell, Wilkens, and on down the line… benefit basketball-wise by signing and playing in Raleigh, under Herb Sendek, more than they would have if they had signed elsewhere to begin with?
Cedar,
For the last time I am telling you to stay out of Sendek discussions. - Rick
no comments on my pithy comment above??? whats up guys? i thought it was pretty funny. ill post it again below so maybe it will get noticed amongst all the herb drivel thats going on.
i heard we recruited and got a commitment from some kid who plays a position called Point Guard… ive never heard of it… can someone enlighten me as to what this position does on the court… it sounds made up
“being responsible & being at fault are different”
so herb was responsible for all the good (very few) things that he accomplished, and not at fault for all the bad? now wonder he stayed so long.
“since very few with great potential stayed around long enough, we’ll never know. ”
he’s the reason they left, so is he responsible or at fault?
which one makes him look better in your eyes?
“he’s the reason they left”
please elaborate
04
Explain the word “position” first, then maybe someone can help you.
red^ that is the question. i thought all players were 6′5″ to 6′7″ and their jobs were to roam the 3 point line constantly weaving in and out of each other until it makes the audience dizzy.
ANd in the rare occasion, you get a 6′10″ guy like Ced, you pull him out to the top of the key to serve a double purpose. It gets him way out of his shooting range AND also to places him so far out of position he has no chance of getting a rebound.