DeCourcy’s Good Piece – State Not Doing it Right
Mike DeCourcy of the The Sporting News helped the national media save a little face on Tuesday when he ran a piece called N.C. State isn’t doing this hiring thing right. So much that has been written recently from survey-course-journalists who were educated on MTV and Nintendo has been so far beyond the realm of common sense that we haven’t even bothered commenting here at SFN. As the coke-bottled judge on Boston Legal would say, “Too much jibber-jabber. It’s just poppy-coock”
Most of DeCourcy’s piece, however, was fantastic. A few comments were a little off (I’ll hit more on them later). Much of it re-emphasized the accurate words that good words that Tom Suiter shared last week. Ultimately DeCourcy criticized the execution of Lee Fowler’s search by citing a few public developments.
I think DeCourcy probably shares an opinion that I have and the bloggers here at SFN share — the ultimate result of the search does not have to be concluded to analyze how the search is being executed. Of course the ultimate result should be the primary component of any final judgement. But, just like a team that wins a game after playing horribly, the result was not 100% reliant on the team played and the the result doesn’t stop coaches from wanting to fix what went wrong on Monday morning.
Like I, DeCourcy believes
There are lots of reasons lots of coaches would love to have this job, but State’s blind lust for a famous coach leads us to believe they’d hire Paris Hilton before calling Gregg Marshall or Bob McKillop.
The university has allowed this pursuit to get really sloppy, and it’s a shame, because this is one of the great basketball programs. Wolfpack fans deserve better. The calamity of this search has turned some potential candidates against it. Some are angry. Some are merely suspicious that if chosen now — in the wake of open rejection by Rick Barnes, John Calipari, Steve Lavin and John Beilein — their selection would not be embraced.
^This exact point was eloquently developed by BJD earlier today on SFN. I think that there have been a lot of mistakes made to this point of the search (none of which cannot be undone with a super hire, mind you)…but DeCourcy/BJD’s points are what I believe to be Lee Fowler’s fatal flaw in this process (to this point in time) –
After John Calipari turned down NC State, Lee Fowler made a conscious decision to continue the ‘big game hunt’ when it was not the natural next step in the search. By unrelentingly continuing the chase a “name” rather than a well-researched, strategic hire Fowler essentially reduced the pool of valuable “Stage B” candidates potentially hireable while opening himself and NC State up to massive public ridicule.
I can’t currently figure out if we are fortunate or unfortunate that all the criticism would be ‘undone’ with a huge ‘name’ hire? It feels as though the dwindling allure of landing a big name continues to be the drug upon which Fowler is addicted. With each passing day, a huge hire becomes more and more about getting lucky with timing despite Les Robinson’s consistent reminder that “CM Newton hired Rick Pitino in July.”
People close to the search continue to rely on their perspective that ‘there are a handful of good candidates that State could hire with one phone call.’ I totally buy that; no argument from me.
What I wonder/worry about is the size of the quality gap that exists between the home run candidates and the fallback candidates. I fear that NC State may have sacrificed many of the potentially super hires “in the middle” – B. Gillispie, M. Turgeon, D. Felton, T. Floyd, J. Pelphrey – by the manner in which the search has been executed.
That is not a huge criticism…and I think that it is a fair concern. Analyzing talent, building networks, and being prepared is what AD’s are paid to do when searches aren’t happening. The fans that say that “nothing matters until the hire is made” are the fans who are too dense to understand that every day that a hire was not announced (for the first 21-28 days) was another day of creating an impediment to hiring a strong Stage B candidate.
You should read DeCourcy’s whole piece. I am going to bullet point a couple of disagreements I have with his info/perspective:
* Rick Barnes – DeCourcy has been vocal about not believing that Rick Barnes would ever consider NC State. If he would open himself up to facts on the matter, he would be batting almost 1.000 on the coaching search.
* Phil Ford – DeCourcy is right that it “embarassed the school” that news leaked that someone spoke to Ford. But, some of the good bloggers at SFN tell me that there is no reason to be embarassed about the conversations. Evidently, there will be more on this in the future.
No matter what you think of the coaching search at N.C. State, understand one thing: Not a single coach turned down this job because some Wolfpack fans were mean to Herb Sendek. Not one.
Many of them will tell you Sendek did a pretty fair job, and they’d be right, but most coaches only will be critical of a rival coach if the two of them are competing for the same recruit.
What those coaches who are — or were — interested in this job understand is that despite not making the NCAA Tournament for his first five seasons on the job, Sendek was allowed to remain for another five seasons. That’s the kind of sturdy support few coaches expect in the positions they hold now.
28 Responses to “DeCourcy’s Good Piece – State Not Doing it Right”
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02/04/2007
[...] • Mike DeCourcy [...]
EXPECTATIONS
There has been a lot of discussion and commentary, some of it not so kind, about what we the absurd, unrealistic, lunatic fringe of the fan base expect of our basketball program and head coach. I am going to try to explain what I want and expect from the NCSU basketball program. I think the best way to do that is to start with a brief review of what I consider to be the “good old days.� If you haven’t looked at these numbers in awhile I think you might be surprised at how bad our conference record was in some of these years.
1982: State finished 4th in the conference with a 7 – 7, 22 – 10 record. State, Wake, UVA, & UNC made the NCAAT. We lost in the 1st round; Wake in the 2nd; UVA made it to the final four and UNC won the national championship.
1983: We all know what happened in 1983 and I’ll save the best for last and come back to it at the end.
1984: The year after winning the championship we finished 4 – 10 (7th), 19 – 14. We lost in 1st round of ACC and 1st round of NIT. Five AAC teams got into the NCAAT. Virginia made it to the final 4.
1985: State, UNC, & GT tied for first at 9 – 5. Duke and Maryland tied for 4th at 8 – 6. GT won the conference tournament and all five off us went to NCAA. Duke lost in the 2nd round and Maryland in the Sweet 16. But GT, UNC and State all made it to the regional finals. We were one win each from having three ACC teams in the final four. We lost, all of us to Big East teams. They ended up with three teams in the final four and we went home. But it was fun, one of the best years of ACC basketball that I remember. Five teams, almost equal, fighting from the beginning of the season to the end. None of us made it to the final four, but we were all good enough if things had broken right that any of us could have won the national championship.
1986: We finished the season 7 – 7(4th), 21 – 13. We lost in the 1st round of the ACC T. Six ACC teams made it into the NCAA. UNC & GT lost in the Sweet 16. We lost the regional finals and Duke lost in the championship game.
1987: Our record was 6 – 8 (6th), 20 – 15. We won the ACC T. Again 6 ACC teams in the NCAAT. Four of us lost in the first round; Duke in Sweet sixteen and UNC in the regional final.
1988: The record was 10 – 4(2nd), 24 – 8. We lost in the ACC semifinal. Five ACC teams got into the NCAA. We lost in the first round. Duke, who finished 3rd during the regular season, won the ACC T and made it to the final 4.
1989: Season record: 10-4(1st), 22 – 9. We lost in the 1st round of ACC T. Six ACC teams made it into the NCAAT. NCS and UNC made it to the Sweet 16, Virginia to the E8 and Duke to F4.
1990: Season record: 6 – 8(T5th), 18 -12. Lost in the first round of the ACC T and went home. There were five ACC teams in NCAA. GT made it to the E8 and Duke lost the championship game.
1991: Season record: 8 – 6(T3rd), 20 – 11. We lost in the ACC semifinal and the 2nd round of the NCAA. UNC made it to the final 4 and Duke won the national championship.
1992: Duke won its second consecutive national championship and NC State basketball (as we knew it) fell from the face of the Earth.
1993: UNC won the national championship. We got blown out in the LRI.
Now back to 1983: We finished the regular season tied for third in the conference at 8 – 6, 18 – 10. UNC and UVA tied for the regular season championship at 12 – 2 and were two of the top teams in the country. Some thought that we needed to win the ACC T to get into the NCAA T.
We beat UNC in the semi-final and UVA in the finals (and then had to beat them again in the Western Regional Finals). We went on that magical run. We pulled games out of thin air; out of our —; out of everywhere. We almost lost games we should have won. We won games we should have lost. We hustled, we scrapped, we worked our butts off and yeah we got lucky.
When we won the national championship in 1974, we were the best team in the country. But this time in 1983 we were maybe the third best team in our conference. But we were still good enough to win the national championship. That’s what I want. That’s what I expect.
Not to win the national championship every year; not to beat Duke and Carolina every game or even half the time (although I don’t think that’s an unrealistic goal for 2 or 3 years down the road); not to win 12 conference games every year and a tournament title every other year or any other numerical objective you want to set. But I do want to feel that we have a realistic chance at winning every time we walk into the RBC. And I want to look down on the floor and see some players and a head coach who think that we can and should win every game. I want to see them celebrate when we win and get angry when we lose.
Looking back over the ten years from 1982 to 1991 I don’t think that, talent wise, we were ever the best team in the conference. There were some good years and some not so good years, but every year, every game, when we walked on the court we had a chance to win. We knew it. They knew it. The teams we were playing weren’t patsies either. The coaches’ names were Coach K, Dean, Lefty, Bobby, Terry and most of those years Dean had a boy named Roy sitting beside him. And you know who the players were: Jordan, Perkins, Sampson, Bias, Salley, Price, Laettner, Hill, Hurley, et al. We weren’t second class then. There is no reason we should be second class now.
I don’t want to see anymore teams that quit when we get 15 points behind or 10 points ahead. I don’t want to see anymore teams that are playing not to lose instead of playing to win. I do want to win more than one out of every five games against Duke and Carolina and more than one out of every three against Wake and Maryland. I want a coach that can recruit, teach and compete with every team in the ACC including our beloved neighbors.
If our Athletics Director, Chancellor or Trustees don’t think these are realistic expectations and don’t believe that we should be able in time to compete as equals with everyone in the conference, then get us out of here. Let’s move to CUSA or the A10 where we can play with boys our size.
Or, hopefully, if you believe we should and can win in the ACC, then let’s get off our butts, hire the best coach we can get and let’s get it on. Either way we lunatics are going to be here. Your choice on how we are going to behave.
Great article by DeCourcy and great analysis by SFN. No hire is going to change the fact that Fowler has turned the search into a spectacle and a mess. Most of the “up and comers” could easily have been hired by now, so one has to wonder what Lee Fowler is up to. The only thing that makes even a little bit of sense is that the hire is somehow involved in the current NBA playoffs, and that this is the reason for the delay. Any other reason for the delay just makes Lee Fowler look incompetent, although I am sure that he will spin it as “all deliberate speed.”
Are we going to wait until July to roll out Rick Pitino?
Oh, yeah, was it in ’88 or ’89 that Carolina, Duke and State were all ranked in the top 5?
[waves], NCSU, class of ’89
You have made some very valid points Woof Wolf. But this process cannot and should not be rushed. NCSU basketball is at the crossroads – which way do we go? I, more than most, would like to see a coach hired tomorrow. But we all must be patient and hope that we are fortunate to land the “right” coach. I say “right” coach because selecting one is like selecting from a box of chocolates – you never know what you are going to get. Barnes may have floundered, Whittenburg could win the NCAA if selected – no one knows. If it takes six months, so be it. I realize everyone is not a LF fan, but we should all try to be patient and let this play out.
SFN – What is your definition of “rushed”. Just because Lee Fowler works slow doesn’t mean that the alternative is rushed. Every ACC team that has had an opening in recent memory has hired a coach inside of 33 days (UVa last year) with most searches lasting under 24 days. Why are we so different in everything?
Woof Wolf,
Thank you for being so dead on. I can’t really remember when NC State had a chance to win every game. But, I can remember my parents being excited to watch NC State basketball. It is not too much to expect to be competitive. As you alluded to, numbers and statistics can be deceiving. All we want is to know that we have a chance; that we can compete. Why did we have that feeling from 82-91? It was because we had a coach that exuded confidence, that demanded heart, and that hated defeat.
I’ve got a better idea, if the Chancellor, AD and Trustees dont’ think those are realistic expectations, they need to take a look at themselves and ask “Why Not”! If they set such low expectations at N C State, I question why they are even there!
Good analysis. I’m head to Kalifornia in the morning. Anyone I should recruit while I’m there?
84: Thanks for the comments. I am not as much concerned about the time line as I am about the commitment of the AD and the Administration to get it done right.
Omega: Amen. Thanks.
How many ACC regular season and Tournement championships has state won? Which years. Can someone give me a link?
Wolf Wolf,
Pretty all encompassing. My thoughts exactly, and more. Thanks.
To want so much, for something that has shown so little promise, and for over 15 years. I guess maybe we really are lunatics, after all.
….I sent this blurb to Oblinger the day DeCourcy’s article came out…it is by far the best jounalism on the sarch written so far…..
“You may want to read Mike DeCourcy’s latest column (attached) – especially the fifth paragraph. DeCourcey has penned what many astute observers believe about this search and you should note that the search is now starting to blemish NCSU’s reputation in the press as well as those running it. Due to all the bungling, it has become an epic P/R disaster and any shot we had at getting a topflight coach has probably all but disappeared.”
The sad fact is today’s version of NCSU athletics does not measure up to the past in accomplishments or the desire to compete at the highest level. Today’s version is all about building shiny new facilities as monuments to the EGOS of the elite level donors. So they may attend functions with our administration and congratulate one another on the “great strides” the university is making.
Look at the past 15 years and tell me the onfield results do not merit some serious program reviews and shakeups. But no, we excuse the results on a lack of facilities. What a joke, it’s a lack of will and vision on the part of our adminstration to do some heavy lifting. They live in the soft world of tenured posiitions and no accountability. They honestly feel as long as their department is fiscally responsible their mission is essentially complete. A heavy dose of tough love is what is needed. Each coach should be held accountable for their programs onfield performance and treated just like salespeople in the business world. Now before any of you soft-hearted soles say we’ll never be able to retain any coaches with this mindset, remember great companies like IBM, EDS etc. prospered with this same set of principles.
We are lost as long as our leaders are not willing and lack the vision to use the same principles that have propelled this country’s greatest businesses to success.
Good piece, though I am more convinced of Fowler’s relative ineptness at this point than you are. I am particularly alarmed at the reports – obviously unconfirmed – that he closed the door on other inquiries at the end game of the Belien situation (“we have our guy, thanks, see ya) before the t’s were crossed, so to speak. That’s truly inept if true. Also, he seems to be floundering generally at this point – though that impression is, to be sure, partly because of the lack of any reliable news right now coupled with the Ford embarassment.
ww, LF was not concerned with Sendek’s timeline either. I agree we need to get the right person but this should have been accomplished by now. NCSU84 is correct, how do you know the “right, perfect” coach will be successful? All you can do is make the best possible hire in a realistic time frame and move on.
If you had an salesman leave your company and your sales were way down and you needed someone bad would you just keep losing sales week after week until you found what you would think would be the “perfect” salesman? I am not implying hire anyone but in the coach hiring world this has been an eternity.
Fowler is handling this search just as some of us feared he would.
Woof Woof
Great piece. You are exactly right and you said it just like I felt it.
I did not grow up a State fan (UNC people in the family), but my grandmother was CRAZY about State. She knew close to nothing about sports in general, but if State was playing on TV, she was watching. I thought she was going to die during the 74 run. I went on to State a few years later and became a huge fan. BUT the thing that Woof Woof brings back, and the thing I felt even BEFORE I was a State fan was that State was always a team that you were going to have to beat if you wanted to win the ACC. In fact I really didn’t like State because they were beating or capable of beating “my Tarheels” all the time. We might have still seemed somewhat like the “little brother” to UNC, but the little brother was a pretty tough kid. I am tired of us being relegated to a 2nd rate program. And this coach search is just reinforcing that notion to people.
In response to SFN rebuttal to my comments above:
I think our situation is different because we have learned over the last ten years where a poor decision will lead – a road to no where. Let’s try to get this one right to the best of our ability. And yes, it may take more time than the other ACC schools took given the circumstances – namely the lack of current potential candidates Barnes, Callipari , Jay Wright were never really true candidates – but LF had to try or risk ridicule from fans (me included). As time goes on other names may surface – be patient. So yes we are different – we have basketball history – we were instrumental in making the ACC into the stellar conference it is today- we have two national championships – we should only settle for the best – we are NC STATE!
I agree with your points. I just don’t agree that a decision made along a time line that is consistent with every other coaching search in history means that the decision is rushed or would therefore be a “poor decision”.
The tardiness in this process is a direct reflection of Lee Fowler’s incompetence, not the prudency needed to make a perfect hire.
Could it be that the hold up is with Lowe getting his degree and not with the NBA season? He is going to Saint Paul’s College in Lawrenceville, Va and should have his degree soon. Saint Paul’s plays NCCU and Shaw in Foolsball this season FYI. Maybe they can’t give him the job until he has Paper in hand.
Woof Wolf : Dead on target. I too remember those days and dream of them again, but, honestly my hope of finding that again at NC State is deminishing ever day that this search goes on. Sadly, I think our athletic director and administration along with the largest donors don’t believe that we can achieve those lofty goals again and are willing to let basketball die as a sport at NC State. As an alumnus I am saddened by this thought and hope that I an totally wrong.
Time will tell.
I really appreciated Mike D’s column this week. It was the “in fashion” thing to do to rip NC State, and Mike came out and called us one of the great programs.
While I disagree with him regarding Barnes, I can see why a guy like Mike would say that. Mike is a stat freak. He’ll back up his argument ten ways ’til Sunday. When you look at the big name coaches that are out there. Almost all of them were not at big name schools when they were hired. I can think of only one. Roy. And he rejected the job once. I also believe Mike had a source at Texas that was a pretty big optimist and was reassuring Mike that Barnes was staying. You combine those things and it makes sense he would say such a thing even if we know that logic is wrong in this case. And when you look at the history of even big time basketball schools, you realize that they dont steal from each as a rule. Going down that path is a risk. I was ok with that risk for Barnes. But Lavin? Unforgiveable.
There are so many great coaches out there right now. McKillop, Pelphrey, Peccora, Haith, etc, etc. People think we need the huge name. I dont agree. What we need is a committment from the university and the WPC. We didnt have that during the Les recharacterization years. We have it now.
What is killing me is that our “basketball minded” AD seemingly is lost if he ever thought Steve Lavin was a better coach than any of those I listed above. That shows a lack of judgement. I just hope he gets lucky. Because he’s not good.
^ I happen to agree with this. We simply have people in charge of these matters, in both the big donor (to some extent) and particularly Athletic Director capacities, who can be best described as people of limited vision. However, this is not the case only with basketball – it’s a department-wide problem with the exception of the football program. The performance (or lack thereof) of our programs against Chapel Hill in virtually every category speaks for itself on this point.
I think someone above hit on the exact reason why no matter who we hire we will be better off. I remember as a kid sitting in my Wolfpack bean bag chair in front of our big ugly tv-in-a-wooden-box-with-speakers-on-the-side and cheering for the Wolfpack in the early 80′s. It was a family event to watch a game. It was always one of the few times we actually got to eat in front of the television downstairs in the den instead of eating at the table as a family. We’d all cheer and jump around and I’d spill koolaid on the floor because we’re talking pre-sippy-cup-days here. Watching even a regular season game against a Clemson or a Maryland was fun, exciting, and something we looked forward to.
The last ten years, I have found that I would start the season excited and finish it in a state of confusion and apathy. Confused because I was trying to figure out exactly when the wheels would fall off, and apathetic because deep down it didn’t matter to me.
No matter who the coach is, we’re better off folks. We’re better off.
I do not think the amount of time is a important as the quality of how the time has been spent.
What happened to the list of names of high quality coaches who supposedly contacted the AD office the 1st few days?
That being said, I really felt from the beginning that Texas and UConn have the only “big name” coaches who could compete out of the box with K & Roy.
Given that the search should have focused FROM THE BEGINNING on a diamond in the rough, then NEXT Roy or K.
What seems unconscionable to me is that our AD/Administration have been content to let its boosters suffer (as they have for years) as a result of their inactions, ineptitude, and lack of communication.
They just don’t seem to get the fact that a huge part of this “radical fan base” is because they don’t seem to care if we win or if we beat our rivals.
Given that Lowe is studying via correspondence, this may not be applicable but St. Paul’s Graduation is May 14th (see St. Paul’s 05-06 Calendar)
WTNY, everything I’ve read has said this mouth (May) so May 14th maybe the date we are looking at.