Watching the Carousel Develop

Home Forums StateFans Basketball Watching the Carousel Develop

This topic contains 1,113 replies, has 85 voices, and was last updated by  Wulfpack 2 days, 18 hours ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 1,114 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #118348

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    Well, Nebraska (12-14) just won in Columbus for the first time EVER. So…one can safely assume Thad Matta (who let his assistant draw up the last play – which failed miserably – down 1 with 8 seconds to play) is a dead man walking.

    #118350

    Adventuroo
    Participant

    BUT, we are Number 1. WE FIRED OUR GUY FIRST…..lets not lose site of this distinction….

    I suggest we light up the Bell Tower in PINK….yes, it could be a Trump Protest….or it COULD be a sign of giving Gottfried, the PINK SLIP….

    Anybody got a pool going on WHO will announce that their school is going in a different direction? I longingly look forward to the Talking OAT’s going ape feces and finally moving on to someone else….

    If Matta is fired, will OSU immediately hire Miller so that we will not be in the running. I thought that Matta was of the same cult and cloth as the revered Coaches K and ORW….

    #118356

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    Unless they more or less lose out, tOSU should still make the NIT. Praying they don’t announce squat or put out feelers before that “run” ends.

    I worry more about Indiana (a legitimate “cut above” top-tier job) than tOSU. I don’t think Arch wants to be 2nd fiddle on campus anywhere, and really hoops is 4th in Columbus, after footbaw, footbaw recruiting, and spring drills.

    Being first in line DOES help, so long as we manage the process correctly.

    #118363

    wolfmanmat
    Participant

    If Archie picks Ohio state over us, then the pundits are correct- our job is not a good job. Ohio state is a foot all school. Archie is a pack alum. If we can’t get loyalty from an alum versus a football school then we may be over valuing our program. If Archie takes Osu before instead of us (assuming he is offered both) then we should all just go cry and accept that we will never be a perennial top 25 again. If he takes Indiana, then that’s different but Osu is not a better job than ncsu and any ncsu alum in coaching should know that.

    #118371

    GoldenChain
    Participant

    Well I have come to accept that NCSU isn’t the job it was in 1990. unx BOG influence and inept university and AD leadership has seen to that (BTW our USNWR ranking fell a lot during that period as well but Woodson has been bringing it up).
    Hate to say it, but Archie would take tOSU job over us, it is a better job. What NCSU has going for it is anyone that’s good at all can improve the program, its harder to improve a decent program than a bad program. Ohio and the midwest is easier recruiting with a down Indiana and Archie knows it well.

    Be prepared, we may have to settle for a lesser known mid-major or smaller coach but hey, all most all of our successful coaches were that kind of hire.

    #118375

    Texpack
    Participant

    tOSU job is pretty much like the Texas job. Boat loads of resources at a big time football first and second school. There has been a lot more success in MBB at tOSU over the years but not many people care. If tOSU fires Matta we should hire him.

    #118377

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    Three jobs are clearly better than the rest – UCLA, Kentucky, and U*NC.

    After that, there is the “A-” tier of Indiana and Kansas. I don’t think Duke quite belongs there because they are wholly a function of Coach K, and when he’s gone, they will be just another good job (with being a small private institution weighing against them).

    There are at least 20-25 other schools next, that give a good coach everything he needs to make his mark, just maybe not the “extra bonus” of being at one of the 5 listed above. Each comes with its own specific set of strengths and drawbacks, so it’s more about finding the best individual fit. And it’s unlikely somebody will leave one school in this tier for another (ie, Sean Miller from AZ to NC State). Human inertia is just too strong, unless somebody is under the gun, like Tom Crean at Indiana.

    #118382

    duckfatrules
    Participant

    is there anyway we can have ONE new discussion for potential new coaches and get off the Gottfreid topic?
    Or is this it, maybe the title should be modified to be clearer?

    #118383

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    I mean, this is carousel talk here (I think the title is fair enough). Agree this is meant to be more focused than the other places where we talk about the AD and the departed coach.

    #118384

    WolfWiz11
    Participant

    Coach Calipari berating us for not only firing our coach (citing 4 NCAAs and 2 S16s), but also for firing him mid season. Stay in your lane,, sir.

    #118385

    choppack1
    Participant

    If we don’t get Archie, I think we can conclude his time here in Raleigh wasn’t exactly enjoyable. I never got the impression that he was someone who was gaga over his time here in Raleigh. An example of someone who appears to look back at his time fondly is Julius Hodge.

    Thad Marta being under fire pretty much highlights the hypocrisy of the media. Apparently, it is totally acceptable for tOSU fans and Indiana fans to be demanding change with their past.

    Unlike Gott, these 2 guys didn’t resign under pressure from their last big gig.

    If Archie is wise – he should realize that what OSU is expecting is a lot more ridiculous than what we are. I am not sure what he brings to the table that Matta doesn’t. And this is a warning both here and there – the style and pace of both is similar I believe.

    #118386

    74wolf
    Participant

    Guys, I’m a huge Gregg Marshall fan. Please read the USA Today article below.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/mvc/2014/02/04/college-basketbal-wichita-state-coach-gregg-marshall/5202599/

    He would be a great fit at State and has that ‘edge’ needed to be successful in the ACC. A proven winner.

    Marshall is paid 3 mil/yr. Gott is paid 2 mil.
    Here are salaries of some other top coaches for perspective:

    K 7.3M
    Calipari 6.6M
    Pitino 6M
    Self 4.8M
    S Miller 4.5M
    Izzo 3.5M
    Matta 3.4M
    Huggins 3.3M
    Dixon 3.2M
    Cream 3.2M
    Smart 2.8M
    Wright 2.5M

    We have to decide if we are serious about getting back to elite status. If we are, then we need to go after Gregg Marshall and pay well (4M?).

    If we’re only lukewarm serious, then we go after others.
    I know a lot of people like Archie, and we could probably get him. At this point, however, we can’t afford to take chances. The wrong guy and we’re cooked!

    #118387

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    We can take ONE shot at an A-list candidate. ONE.

    You have to weigh the quality of the candidate, along with the probability of “Getting to Yes.”

    Even if one thinks Marshall is a better coach (I disagree), I think it is clearly outweighed by the significantly lower probability that he says yes. He’s a tough guy to read. You WILL have to offer more than $4M/year. I think it takes $5M minimum to get him to talk to you. Not sure we can get there. And it WILL be matched by the Kochs. I put the odds of landing him, AT BEST, around 20%.

    Arch, on the other hand, will listen at $3.5-4M. And you can be certain that Dayton can’t match. It’s simply a matter of whether he chooses somewhere else. I would put the odds at around 70%, and it’s only that low because of the NC State/Charlie Brown factor. I could easily see us f-cking it up. AGAIN.

    And you can’t take both shots. It will get out. Neither one of these guys will accept being sloppy seconds.

    #118388

    Wufpacker
    Keymaster

    Time to think outside the box….

    Arch…if you say yes…free shoe lifts for life. You’d look taller.

    Gregg…if you say yes…free personality lessons. You’d appear almost human.

    #118389

    StateRed44
    Participant

    Well everybody is poor mouthing us but it shouldn’t hurt with Archie or Marshall. Archie knows what the deal is here if anyone does and Marshall mostly knows and probably isn’t scared anyway. If it’s not either of them it might as well be a Keats or Will Wade type guy so whatever. Ask those 2 then bring in who its gonna be. Tell all the media to eat a bag of …….!

    #118390

    GoldenChain
    Participant

    Going with what BJD says, taking a shot at Archie we MUST pony up $$$$ wise and not think he’ll come for less “for old time sake”. Plus we have to be prepared to keep it going if he (or any A-lister) comes and is successful, meaning we have to be looking at getting to the most elite money to keep him.

    #118391

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    We can take ONE shot at an A-list candidate. ONE.

    Pet conspiracy theory:

    What if the news of Gott’s impending firing and the contact w/ Arch was leaked by someone with an axe to grind in order to kill our chances with other A-listers by making them seem like backup choices and w/ Arch by giving Dayton & other teams on the carousel time to pony up cash/otherwise poison the well?

    #118392

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    And you can’t take both shots. It will get out. Neither one of these guys will accept being sloppy seconds.

    Agreed.

    #118393

    GoldenChain
    Participant

    Interesting thought and possible fanistan. But really those sorts of things can and do happen and at the end of teh day we (me anyway) wants someone to come because they want to come.

    #118395

    StateRed44
    Participant

    We can take ONE shot at an A-list candidate. ONE.

    You have to weigh the quality of the candidate, along with the probability of “Getting to Yes.”

    Even if one thinks Marshall is a better coach (I disagree), I think it is clearly outweighed by the significantly lower probability that he says yes. He’s a tough guy to read. You WILL have to offer more than $4M/year. I think it takes $5M minimum to get him to talk to you. Not sure we can get there. And it WILL be matched by the Kochs. I put the odds of landing him, AT BEST, around 20%.

    Arch, on the other hand, will listen at $3.5-4M. And you can be certain that Dayton can’t match. It’s simply a matter of whether he chooses somewhere else. I would put the odds at around 70%, and it’s only that low because of the NC State/Charlie Brown factor. I could easily see us f-cking it up. AGAIN.

    And you can’t take both shots. It will get out. Neither one of these guys will accept being sloppy seconds.

    Somewhat agree we can’t give but one a contract, but we can interview both, give them a salary range, and see who seems the most “interested”. Then give that onethe contract and see if they sign it. Then move on to tier B if the deal won’t close.

    #118397

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    ^ I don’t believe either of these guys “interviews” unless they know they are the guy. It’s more them interviewing YOU at that point.

    Similar to John Calipari last time.

    #118398

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    BJD has it.

    #118400

    StateRed44
    Participant

    I don’t think it’s fair to us to expect to go all the way to a contract with the absolute first guy we speak to. If a guy is so turned off that he can’t stomach us contacting Archie first to see if he is interested or not then maybe it won’t work. But I think you have to gauge interest before you can be expected to give someone an offer. I understand there has to be cloak and dagger to save face, but they gotta appeal to us too pal :)

    #118401

    74wolf
    Participant

    Agree with you BJD95 on most points. Given that we have one opportunity at A list, I do think Gregg has a better body of work than Archie and also has a nice chip on his shoulder which would serve well in a tough neighborhood. No fear of K or Huckleberry. If it takes 5M, it takes 5M. And don’t forget he and wife are from these parts.
    If we don’t get him, Duke or UNC might get him in next few years, and I sure don’t want to play AGAINST him!
    And don’t you think Archie would still be interested if Marshall is a no go? He’s making .7M.

    #118407

    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    It’s rare that I call BJD on optimist, but putting Marshall at 20% seems pretty optimistic to me. If he’s interested, then clearly State should be interested in him. But I don’t think that State should get in a bidding war over him.

    Archie being an alum may not play much into his decision making process. If it was someone close to me, I would advise to look at the best situation for him and his family. But little would make me happier than for Arch to come to Raleigh AND be successful.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 1,114 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.