New coach is winner at every level he's coached.

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  • #121507

    Greywolf
    Participant

    There are over 60 P-5 schools. Not very likely that every coach who is successful sees NC State as a great place to coach. Not every coach who is successful will be anxious to come here. Part of the search firm’s job is to assess interest. The coach we hired was anxious to come to NC State to coach. The hire has been called “cheap and safe” in another thread. We are good here at saying things that degrade ourselves.

    2 million may be “cheap” to some of you, however, anyone who thinks hiring another coach with Valvano’s experience prior to coming here is safe is delusional. Coach Case with only military and HS coaching experience wasn’t safe. IIRC Norm Sloan wasn’t exactly safe either. Those three turned out OK, I’d say.

    Coach K wasn’t a safe hire nor was Dean Smith. Safe hires don’t come to dumpster fires to work. Some of you have only whizzed on the hire a few times. This thread is another opportunity to do it again. And for those of you who have posted 30 or 40 negative posts about the hire, feel free to have another.

    #121508

    saigonwolf
    Participant

    No whizzing from me. I like him. However, I didn’t want him because he had only been at UNCW 3 years and they are in the CAA, which proves nothing about his ability to compete with the big boys. I had hoped this time would be different, and we could attract a “bigger-league” coaching candidate, but we couldn’t, and that’s NOT DY’s fault, contrary to what the naysayers here like to continually post – ad-nauseum. (spell-check says that’s wrong – I don’t care) So I think we got the best guy we could get, and I agree that him having been a winner everywhere he’s been is a plus, and will fully support him to get the same job done here.

    #121509

    McCallum
    Participant

    I’m not a safe hire either.

    I’d have taken the job for 400 k, thrown pig pickings all over the state, burned K and huckleberry in effigy, and moved the team back to Reynolds.

    Might not have won much but it would have been fun and not safe. We would play defense until the blood flowed, I can promise you that.

    McCallum

    #121515

    albunde55
    Participant

    I’m not a safe hire either.

    I’d have taken the job for 400 k, thrown pig pickings all over the state, burned K and huckleberry in effigy, and moved the team back to Reynolds.

    Might not have won much but it would have been fun and not safe. We would play defense until the blood flowed, I can promise you that.

    McCallum

    I would gave been your assistant. 15 players, 4 fouls each, 60 fouls per game(bring the pain)! We would run so much the games would feel like a week of vacation!

    #121526

    Greywolf
    Participant

    I see where a mod from the Gloom and Doom Squad changed the name of the thread. Good idea. Maybe now this thread will get a decent comment or two.

    Interesting comments about defense. The Old Grey Fox used to have a player or two to use in pressing situations. Remember Ronnie Scheffle(sp)? He didn’t play every game but when he was called on the whole team responded more intense defense.

    Seems Coach KK mixes a fun offense with whatever defense he uses. The guy won 26 games so he plays some defense. I didn’t understand what he said about defense but it made sense when he said it — if you know what I mean. There is no need to punish the players for Gottfried’s sins and we certainly don’t want an environment that’s not fun to play basketball in.

    About the concern for coaching in the ACC, IMO he’s shown he can coach here by his 2 games in the NCAAT. L’ville wasn’t in the ACC when he coached there but the Big East then wasn’t exactly a chopped liver conference. Maybe coaching with Pitino taught him something. At least he doesn’t have to un-learn anything he picked up from Gott.

    #121528

    albunde55
    Participant

    Doom and gloom left town! We are now “sunshine and happiness” thread. We are just a couple of seasons away from world domination. Check that, ACC domination!

    “This is my happy face”

    #121532

    Rick
    Keymaster

    I didn’t change the title of the thread but it would be nice if people could make a point without calling someone who disagrees with them names. I guess that’s too much to ask.

    #121533

    Rick
    Keymaster

    About the concern for coaching in the ACC, IMO he’s shown he can coach here by his 2 games in the NCAAT.

    You mean the ones he lost? There are reasons to believe he will succeed, this is hardly one of them. His team gave up 70 points to UVA.

    #121535

    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    I changed the title…but the comment applies to almost every coach that is hired by an ACC school.

    My favorite trivia question: With Skip Prosser, Thad Matta, and Sean Miller all getting their start at Xavier, who has the record for most wins in Xavier men’s basketball history?

    Answer: Pete Gillen

    From 1985 to 1994, Gillen compiled a 202–75 record, including the program’s first five wins in the NCAA Tournament. The Musketeers advanced to the NCAA Tournament in six of Gillen’s nine years at the helm. In 1990, Xavier beat Kansas State and future Big East colleagues Georgetown to advance to the program’s first Sweet Sixteen.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Musketeers_men%27s_basketball#Pete_Gillen_era

    PS – Bob Staak preceded Gillen at Xavier. (If you don’t how Staak relates to ACC basketball, you’re just too young.)

    Conclusion: Wins in the minor leagues doesn’t necessarily mean anything when you move up to the Bigs.

    #121543

    Greywolf
    Participant

    You mean the ones he lost? There are reasons to believe he will succeed, this is hardly one of them. His team gave up 70 points to UVA.

    Citing his 2 games vs ACC opponents wasn’t to show he would succeed, but the closeness of the games indicates he can coach on a big stage. He lost by less than 10 points with a bunch of guys from the whatever conference it was. Being able to take those guys and compete in the against ACC teams indicates to me he can coach in the ACC. It seems to indicate to you he can’t. Oh well, lets see what else you got.

    His team didn’t “give up 70 points” to UVA, Rick, he forced UVA to play HIS game. Did you miss where UVA gave up more points to lowly UNC-W than the average ACC team scored? I guess it depends on what you want to prove with the available data what you see.

    #121544

    GoldenChain
    Participant

    Grey I think you key point is

    Part of the search firm’s job is to assess interest.

    We can speculate all day long about Wade, Archie, Marshall or whoever but the reality is that us here in the cheap seats have no idea what her choices were. Hard as it is to accept there are guys who aren’t interested in our job at any price. DY’s job is to get the best person from those actually willing to come (and stay if successful).
    I don’t see anything negative about this hire and will defer to DY’s discretion in this matter.

    And yes, as Va says success at one level does not mean success at the next, but then again its the best indicator we have to go by. I’m interviewing for jobs right now and one thing I have is 4 previous long term cases of sustained sales growth, not a stinker in there, so I think I’m a safe hire but who knows, the situation I’m in now has constrained me to be able to achieve as much as I could.

    Neither does hiring a blue chip Tier 1 who has been successful in other programs mean he would come here and be successful. Every situation is different as well.

    #121546

    Greywolf
    Participant

    I changed the title…but the comment applies to almost every coach that is hired by an ACC school.

    Good point. I guess I was impressed by the 2 national championships he won as HC of a HS team. You don’t get to pick proven 5-star recruits at a prep school, you develop players — at least IMO.

    We talk on these boards about good assistant coaches being necessary to win. Coach KK was recruited out of a prep school to be an assistant on a team the went to 2 final 4’s and won a national title his 3 years there. Who your mentors are is a most important factor in a person’s professional career. I don’t like Rick Pitino but I would accept his mentorship in a heart beat.

    How the heck do you have all that data you quote at hand? I’m impressed. How do you do dat? 😉

    #121547

    Greywolf
    Participant

    Grey I think you key point is

    Part of the search firm’s job is to assess interest.
    ……………………..
    And yes, as Va says success at one level does not mean success at the next, but then again its the best indicator we have to go by. I’m interviewing for jobs right now and one thing I have is 4 previous long term cases of sustained sales growth, not a stinker in there, so I think I’m a safe hire but who knows, the situation I’m in now has constrained me to be able to achieve as much as I could.

    I wonder how Maslow’s theory of motivation would be applicable in assessing interest in a particular coaching job? Most of us seem to think money is the main motivational tool available to those with the jobs. I suspect that while important to be compensated fairly, money is not where Kevin Keatts is.

    GC, I’d say at your level of success, moving up the hierarchical pyramid is important. I worked 20 years weatherizing homes for the low-income and elderly. I made many times more money in commercial construction but making a difference in the quality of somebody’s life every day we worked fulfilled my self-actualization needs. It was the happiest I’ve ever been in my work life. I’m not advising you what to do, but I am suggesting you are looking in the right place to find where you are not constrained.

    Not that you will need it but good luck with your search.

    #121550

    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    How the heck do you have all that data you quote at hand? I’m impressed. How do you do dat? ?

    I’m an argumentative old fart who has watched ACC basketball since the early 70’s and gotten into a lot of internet arguments/discussions dating back to the Great Herb Debate. So I’ve learned a few things over the years.

    But the Pete Gillen example comes from living ~equi-distant to UVA and VT. When Guillen was hired to replace Jeff Jones, it looked like a great hire…but only on paper. By the time Pete was let go, one of the local sports radio hosts came up with the line that Gillen had succeeded in one thing….Making the Jeff Jones years look good.

    PS – Xavier’s current coach (Chris Mack) is sitting at 186 wins at X. Someone needs to hire him away this off-season or my trivia question will have to be reworded somehow.

    #121552

    tractor57
    Participant

    Va and I hail from the same generation. My first memory of ACC basketball was the 1967 UNC team that played UCLA in the finals. I was on campus between the two nattys (damn good basketball then) but since V was run off not so much. Finding that great coach is not easy – we have had three but it has been a LONG time since then. I have always been impressed with Va’s grasp on data and they way he parses it. Me I can find data but the parsing is the issue with me.

    #121565

    Greywolf
    Participant

    No fuss, just want to discuss — if you know what I mean.

    I didn’t want him because he had only been at UNCW 3 years and they are in the CAA, which proves nothing about his ability to compete with the big boys.

    You have to show your ability in the CAAs to earn the right to compete with the big boys. The only place you can prove your ability with the biggies is competing with the biggies.

    I had hoped this time would be different, and we could attract a “bigger-league” coaching candidate,

    Who’s the target? Who’s winning and wants to come to NC State? What’s his problem? Can’t get along with the AD? If he leaves where he is, what’s to keep him at NC State. A dog that will bring a bone, will take a bone.

    Who’s the alum or native North Carolinian who’s setting the coaching world on fire and wants to come home?

    “bigger-league” coaching candidate = pipe dream.

    #121568

    wolfpackdawg
    Participant

    Staak couldn’t keep his pants on either. :-)

    #121573

    choppack1
    Participant

    And he liked a good night on the town.

    If you are going to hit the town, you better win. Boy, Gott and Staak hanging together would have been epic.

    #121577

    13OT
    Participant

    I have read the posts on here, some positive, some negative, some mixed.

    The thing that disappoints me most about this hire is that in spite of DECADES of basketball mediocrity, we have again chosen a path of re-inventing the wheel instead of hiring a big-name coach. The 6-year contract tells me that NCSU feels that it’s going to take a long time for this coach to pull us out of the mud. Why else would they give this long of a contract to an inexperienced HC from not one but two levels below the ACC? Despite not having won squat since 1987, there still doesn’t seem to be any sense of urgency whatsoever among NCSU administrators. I have followed Wolfpack basketball since the late 1950s, and have been a financial supporter the past 20 years, and feel what this program needs most of all is an instant jump-start.

    I hope it works, but after the last 3 HC hires we’ve made, I am skeptical at best. I also note that I’ve yet to hear anyone at NCSU, administration or HC’s that we’ve had recently, that a primary goal is winning an ACC championship.

    I just wonder if men’s basketball or football will ever finish above .500 again, especially on any kind of a consistent basis. Hope. That’s what it’s all about.

    #121581

    rthomas44
    Participant

    Pitino made him associate Head coach, trying to reward and keep him in LOUISVILLE. He may have taken a salary cut to go to UNCW. Be confident, this is the best hir

    #121583

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    Who are all of these big name coaches you guys want to hire?

    #121584

    Greywolf
    Participant

    I just wonder if men’s basketball or football will ever finish above .500 again, especially on any kind of a consistent basis.

    We finished above .500 the last 3 years but you don’t think our senior laden team will this year? Oh, you meant in the conference. Why didn’t you say so. I guess we will just have to wait and see, won’t we. You wait with your lip poked out and I’ll wait relishing playing top 10 teams to do it.

    While you are waiting compose another of your pitiful sounding posts about the incompetent Pack administration not caring. We need at least one a week. I guess it’s my karma to have fans around me sucking up the space of optimism and entusiam.

    #121586

    BKwolf
    Participant

    I know I’ll probably get roasted for this but Gregg Marshall is not a sure bet at $5m. I enjoy watching the way his teams play offense AND defense but at the end of the day, he was 0-3 during the regular season against tourney teams.

    #121587

    BKwolf
    Participant

    He did have a nice final 4 run but even Gottfried would’ve made an elite eight if we had met a 13 seed La Salle in the sweet 16.

    #121588

    BKwolf
    Participant

    And for someone making $3.5m you would think that he had the resources and momentum, post-final four, to be able to recruit at a high level. His recruiting classes after the final four:

    2013 – #92
    2014 – #79
    2015 – #60
    2016 – #68
    2017 – #150

    Great coach but still a major risk at that price tag.

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